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Author Topic: Clover road baptist church  (Read 42977 times)
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lonemonkey
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« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2009, 12:34:19 AM »

Exactly my thoughts!
What was happening on the date of that post?
MH had only just talked to the media on the phone???
That was fairly early on, right???....
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lonemonkey
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« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2009, 12:36:21 AM »

this is the 2nd post on the guestbook about sandra.  there was one before this the same day, saying only, rest in peace little sandra or something like that.  then you have this one.  they were both on april 7th.  so what was going on, on april 7th, that would make someone go post about sandra on the church website? 

Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:11:36 AM 11:11, hmm that is intersting
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Proverbs 3 5-6 I have read a book called The Shack by WM. Paul Young. There is no excuse for the poor child Sandra It breaks my heart. If you read this book it may help with understanding. I am so sorry to the family and my families prayers are with you

why would someone need to read the book The Shack by Wm Paul Young?  let me see what that book is about.  and also proverbs 3: 5-6. 

You know what's weird???
The Shack was among Casey Anthony's possessions
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2009, 12:45:11 AM »

I didn't get that whole Mr Jones thing posted in the beginning. WTH was that about?


I think one MH started to talk, people  got suspicious. That is how I think she is mentioned on the 7th of April.

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« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2009, 12:48:05 AM »

You all need to help with the religious stuff posted and what seems conventional and what doesn't.
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doubledecker
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« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2009, 12:50:44 AM »

Here is a review on THE SHACK, might help to know what it is about.  Maybe we can figure out why this poster is saying to read it to understand.  Why are they posting that I wonder?  and on the 7th, on the church website? 

REVIEW
William P. Young's book has an intriguing premise. Years ago, a father name MacKenzie Phillips took his children camping and lost one of them to a man who has kidnapped and killed others. Mack has grieved since then. His marriage has struggled. Understandably, his relationship with God has suffered. Then, one wintry day, he receives a note in his mailbox inviting him back to the woods, to the shack in which his daughter's dress and bloodstains were found. The note, it would seem, is from God.

From this simple yet effective premise, Young leads Mack Phillips back to his point of despair and anger. The encounters he then has with God there in "The Shack" serve as thought-provoking moments for both Mack and the reader. This is not the God of stodgy Sunday school classes. This is not a flannel-graph Jesus. This is not limited to a fluttering dove of the Holy Spirit. The descriptions here are startling, while remaining true to the nature of God's love and grace as portrayed through Scripture. Not only are they startling, they're wise and moving and beautiful.

Some might argue that "The Shack" has little theology or accuracy to it, but the very argument is what Young is trying to melt away.

Another review

THE SHACK is a fictional account of a grieving father who meets the Godhead in an old cabin where his abducted daughter's bloody dress was once found. These god-figures give the father a long series of lectures about the nature of themselves, reality, and how to be free of his grief.

Although LIFEWAY Bookstores are selling this book, the purchaser should understand that it isn't a Christian novel when judged by classical Christian doctrines. It presents itself as a Christian book. God the Father is depicted as a female deity; it teaches that people are not sinners, but simply misguided due to wrong intellectual paradigms through which they look at life; the woman-god in the story says she is "extremely fond" of everyone, including the unknown person who murdered the poor little girl; the gods hold no moral expectations of humanity, so they are never disappointed in anyone; the gods criticize the father for being angry at the man who murdered his little girl; there is no holiness or hell; the Ten Commandments are bad; followers of the Lord are free from any obligation to follow moral commandments; and Jesus isn't a Savior, but is a participant in the process of becoming godlike.

These points of mystical philosophy -- in prior decades, we would have called it "New Age" -- is clearly presented throughout the book, in the series of dialogues Mack has with the gods. There is no question that this is a profoundly anti-Christian book. But it draws you in by building a strong sense of empathy between you, the reader, and the grieving father, which is a well-known propaganda technique.

If you are interested in reading Universalist Unitarianism philosophy in a fiction novel form, this will do it for you. What I have discovered is that many religious people are projecting what they want to be believe about this book onto it, rather than soberly noting its actual message. This is common with religious fiction. The book denies everything in Christian teaching that is distinctive, disturbing, or upsetting, but uses Christian words and concepts to promote antinomian universalism. Because I accept traditional Nicene and Reformed Christianity, I despise this book. It is very, very deceptive.

many more reviews here
http://www.amazon.com/Shack-William-P-Young/product-reviews/0964729237

most are pretty negative and are certainly saying this book is not mainstream christian at all and basically the opposite, so why would someone want anyone to read that book, or do they?  is this just a message left on the guest book and is meaning someone else? 
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doubledecker
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« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2009, 12:57:52 AM »

Proverbs 3:5-6 (King James Version)

 5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

 6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
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« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2009, 01:01:03 AM »

I have been given this book and have not read it yet.  Several of my parishoners have read it and say it is good.  Something like the old Pilgrims Progress.  I'll try to take some time to read it.
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« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2009, 01:04:21 AM »

Of course, all of this begs that nagging question about Clifford Lane Lawless.  Who is he really and why isn't it a matter of verifiable record?
Good night my monkey friends.
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« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2009, 01:07:35 AM »

here are the titles of the news articles I have for 4/6 and 4/7, maybe this will help to understand what was going on then.  I will read through them all later but I don't want to post them all on this thread. 

4/6

Police and the FBI arrived around 10:30 a.m at the pond where the container(suitcase) is.

An FBI evidence recovery team, which was expected to open the container, arrived at the site at 1:45 p.m. The forensic pathologist arrived shortly after 3 p.m. as a precautionary measure.


Missing Tracy girl's body found 04/06/2009
Missing Tracy girl's body found

By Mike Martinez, Aaron Swarts, Roman Gokhman, Kari Hulac and Michelle Maitre
San Joaquin Herald
Posted: 04/06/2009 01:56:27 PM PDT

TRACY — Police confirmed Monday night that the body of a missing Tracy girl was found inside a large black suitcase submerged in a farm pond just two miles from where the child was last seen 11 days ago.

Sandra Cantu, 8, was seen in a March 27 surveillance video that captured her skipping near her home in the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park on West Clover Road.

At 10:20 p.m., an estimated 16 Tracy police and FBI vehicles, including a crime lab, were seen entering the mobile home park, in preparation to serve search warrants at an undisclosed location inside.
A short while later, Tracy police and FBI agents converged on Clover Road Baptist Church near the mobile home park late Monday night preparing to search a shed in connection with the investigation into Sandra's death, calling it an "active crime scene."
_______________

so on the 6th, they know she is found in the suitcase at the pond, and LE is in the park at a mobile home that night and also at the church.  Searching in the SHED... hmm is that a SHACK?

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« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2009, 01:10:52 AM »

this is right before the post on the 7th at 11:11... did that poster try on purpose to post at 11:11? 

this is what they would have known at the time

Tracy church a crime scene in girl’s slaying (9:57 a.m.)

By The Record
April 07, 2009 12:58 PM

TRACY -- The Police Department, shifting gears from trying to find Sandra Cantu to trying to find her killer, has roped off Clover Road Baptist Church with yellow crime-scene tape.

The church is less than 100 yards west of Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park, where Cantu lived. The 8-year-old girl’s body was discovered Monday inside a suitcase floating in an irrigation pond two miles north of her home.

A residence inside the mobile-home park also has been roped off as a crime scene.

Tracy police Sgt. Tony Sheneman was holding a 10 a.m. news conference today.

A tree in front of the Orchard Estates park has become an unofficial memorial to Cantu. Passersby, some of them softly weeping with heads bowed, continue to drop off balloons, stuffed animals, notes and candles.

Tracy Unified has several counselors meeting with students this morning at Melville S. Jacobson Elementary where Cantu had been a student.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ ... PECIAL0263
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« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2009, 01:14:34 AM »

CLL had spent all night talking to police.  this would be the night of the 6th and into the morning of the 7th. 

Police Look for Sandra Cantu's Killer

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story. ... &catid=284

TRACY, CA - Police have served a search warrant on one location in the Tracy mobile home park where 8-year-old Sandra Cantu was last seen.

Overnight, crime scene tape was also strung around Clover Road Baptist Church, which will be searched later Tuesday, said Sgt. Tony Sheneman with the Tracy Police Department at a news conference Tuesday morning. The church pastor, Lane Lawless, lives in the Orchard Estates mobile home park.

News10 talked to Lawless and his wife Connie. The pastor said he spent all night talking to police. He said they were being questioned because they know the Cantu family and Sandra and live just a few doors down from them.

"They're just covering every base they're going to cover," said Connie Lawless. "We were close friends with her. We lived just down the street. That's the only reason."

When asked if he had anything to do with the girl's disppearance, Lane Lawless said, "No."

"No one has been detained, no one has been arrested" in the death of Sandra, said Sheneman. Her body was found Monday in a suitcase in an dairy farm pond about two miles northeast of the mobile home park where she lived with her family.

Investigators did not say what prompted the latest searches or what they have found. No suspects have been identified. During the 10-day search for the girl, investigators previously searched four homes at the park and impounded several vehicles.

Police spoke with the girl's father last week. He lives in Mexico and works in Southern California.

NEWS10 SPECIAL: Sandra Cantu Remembered

When Sandra's body was found, she was in the same clothes she was wearing when last seen on March 27: a pink "Hello Kitty" T-shirt and black leggings.

Tracy Police Chief Janet Thiessen vowed that investigators will find the person or persons responsible for the girl's death and "bring them to justice."

Authorities plan an autopsy Tuesday to determine the cause of death.

Remembrances

Sheneman said many calls and inquiries have been made about what people can do for the family. He said cards can be sent to the Tracy Police Department, 1000 Civic Center Drive, Tracy, California, 95376, where a liaison is working with the girl's family.

Donations should be sent to the Carole Sund-Carrington Memorial Reward Foundation at 301 Downey Avenue, Modesto, California, 95354, attn. Sandra Cantu. As of Monday, the foundation's reward to find Sandra was over $30,000.

Monday night, a vigil at the mobile home park became an impromptu service when word was released her body had been found. There is a growing collection of flowers, candles, stuffed animals and messages in a memorial in front of the park's entrance.

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doubledecker
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« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2009, 01:18:18 AM »

so they knew on the 7th she was found, they question cll all night, they had roped off teh church with crime scene tape to search it tuesday and do the autopsy on tuesday, so people knew all of this on the 7th, and this article says they are getting close to an arrest, so melissa knew by then or someone did that they were getting close and they were at her house and the church and had found sandra.  IN HER SUITCASE. 

so, why read that book? THE SHACK.  to understand why this happened.  HMMM

Sandra Cantu Found in a Suitcase; Police Closing In on Suspect

Second-Grader Was Missing for 10 Days, Lived in a California Mobile Home Park

By SARAH NETTER

April 7, 2009

"It's not as big a mystery as it was," before, said Tracy, Calif., police Sgt. Tony Sheneman to ABCNews.com, "and we believe we're getting significantly closer."


"We're hopeful that we will have something in the next couple of days," he said.


The discovery of the suitcase by farmworkers brought a tragic end to a massive search that had enveloped the town. Police were aided by hundreds of volunteers, dogs, horses and the FBI.


In the end, it was a twice-yearly practice of draining a collection pond used for irrigation that led police to Sandra's body.


When the pond, about 125 to 150 yards long and about 30 yards wide, began to empty, the suitcase appeared.


The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children had translated missing posters into Spanish to alert the largely Spanish-speaking population, many of them migrant workers, that live in the area.

"They saw the suitcase come up to the surface and thought it was odd," Sheneman said.


When the luggage was opened at the morgue, investigators found Sandra's body inside, still dressed in the pink Hello Kitty T-shirt and black leggings she was wearing March 27, the day she disappeared.

Autopsy results are expected later today.
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« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2009, 01:25:05 AM »

so they took the computers on the 6th-7th, so by then melissa knew they were going to find everything.  so did someone else. 

Pastor Confirms Police Questioned Him, Searched Home in Sandra Cantu Investigation


Created by Brian Shields on 4/7/2009 4:27:24 PM

TRACY (KRON) -- The pastor of a Tracy church confirms police have questioned him about the murder of eight-year old Sandra Cantu.

KRON 4's Kate Thompson spoke with Pastor Lane Lawless and his wife as they drove by the Clover Road Baptist Church Tuesday afternoon. Pastor Lawless says he's cooperating with the investigation. He told Kate police seized computers, phones, and other items from the family's trailer located in the same mobile home park where the Cantu family lives. The pastor says his granddaughter played with Sandra on a regular basis. Police cordoned off the church for a more thorough search of the premises Tuesday morning.

An autopsy on the eight-year old girl's remains was underway late Tuesday morning
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« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2009, 01:33:32 AM »

so by the 7th they know they are focusing on cll's house and the church.  look what connie says.  It breaks our heart

and then you have this post the same day
Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:11:36 AM 11:11, hmm that is intersting
Remote User:
Comments
Proverbs 3 5-6 I have read a book called The Shack by WM. Paul Young. There is no excuse for the poor child Sandra It breaks my heart. If you read this book it may help with understanding. I am so sorry to the family and my families prayers are with you

Link Between Cantu Case And Church? 4/7/09
Police Examine Link Between Cantu Case And Church

Nearby Church Investigated, Pastor Questioned

Tracy: One day after Sandra Cantu's lifeless body was pulled from a Tracy irrigation pond, investigators are focusing their attention on a church just down the road from the trailer park.

During a press briefing this morning, Tracy Police Sgt. Tony Sheneman said this afternoon, officers will conduct a search of the Clover Road Baptist Church, located a third of a mile away from the Cantu's home. Yellow crime scene tape lined the perimeter of the church Monday night, as officers scoured the area for evidence well into Tuesday.

The pastor at the Clover Road Baptist Church -- Lane Lawless, a resident at the Orchard Estates mobile home park -- was questioned Monday following the discovery of Sandra's body. Police say there could be a connection between Monday night's search of the mobile home park and the search at the church.

Police point out that, contrary to some media reports, that Lawless has not been arrested, only questioned, "like hundreds of other people," said Sgt. Sheneman.

"They took the usual stuff, phone, computer, things of that nature," said Connie Lawless, Lane's wife. "We were very open to them taking anything they wanted to take. We were not at all disturbed by that. We feel that the more people they can eliminate the quicker they will be able to get to the truth of the matter."

Connie said she suspected that police were interested in her husband's church because Sandra often played at their house with the Lawless' granddaughter.

"It breaks our heart that someone would take such a sweet child," she said.

The body of Sandra Cantu was discovered in a suitcase located in a Tracy irrigation pond yesterday afternoon, 10 days after the 8-year-old was reported missing. The cause of death is still unknown, as the autopsy is still in progress.

Authorities were able to quickly identify Sandra by the clothes that she was wearing went she went missing on March 27: a pink "Hello Kitty" T-shirt and black leggings.

At a press conference at Tracy City Hall Monday night, Police Chief Janet Thiessen and Sgt. Tony Sheneman confirmed that the container found by farm workers in an irrigation pond contained Sandra's body, and vowed to find the little girl's killer.

"We will be determining the person or persons responsible for this reprehensible act, and we will bring them to justice," Chief Janet Thiessen said.


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« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2009, 01:52:54 AM »

if you are not familiar with 11:11, google it, it has many meanings, but it is interesting this post MIGHT HAVE BEEN "purposely" posted at that time.
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« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2009, 02:01:22 AM »

here is more on the book THE SHACK...

by William Paul Young.  the posts reads WM Paul Young.  they chose to write william as WM.

I'll stop here.  But I think it is a very good idea to pay attention to these things. 

I don't want to clutter the thread.  But I ALWAYS pay attention. 

It is my belief someone already knew all about Melissa and the murder of sandra cantu.  The 11:11 is a "wake up call" .

I need to get some sleep.
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« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2009, 02:05:11 AM »

this is the 2nd post on the guestbook about sandra.  there was one before this the same day, saying only, rest in peace little sandra or something like that.  then you have this one.  they were both on april 7th.  so what was going on, on april 7th, that would make someone go post about sandra on the church website? 

Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:11:36 AM 11:11, hmm that is intersting
Remote User:
Comments
Proverbs 3 5-6 I have read a book called The Shack by WM. Paul Young. There is no excuse for the poor child Sandra It breaks my heart. If you read this book it may help with understanding. I am so sorry to the family and my families prayers are with you

why would someone need to read the book The Shack by Wm Paul Young?  let me see what that book is about.  and also proverbs 3: 5-6. 

You know what's weird???
The Shack was among Casey Anthony's possessions

that is one case I "skipped", I just did not have the time to get involved in it and I knew it would be huge and go on for years, so I just purposedly did not get into it...but hmm on she had the book.  well I guess a LOT of people have that book being it is so popular, but is interesting isn't it.  hmmm

THE SHACK.
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« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2009, 04:45:31 AM »

DD, the comment that jumps out to me also is when Connie says they (LE) too the "usual stuff . . ."  I wouldn't know what is usual stuff LE would take.
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« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2009, 11:30:41 AM »

Does anyone have the transcript of the speech the MH family gave  and can post it? That was strange, who on earth comes out like they did, stand there and defend themselves and their church. I found that very degrading and a sort of "who the heck cares what you have to say" moment.
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lonemonkey
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« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2009, 01:21:19 PM »

if you are not familiar with 11:11, google it, it has many meanings, but it is interesting this post MIGHT HAVE BEEN "purposely" posted at that time.

It is very interesting....Could be just a coincedence....
Isn't 11:11 supposed to be when there is a spiritual doorway/gateway opened?  I know in numerology 11 is what's called a master number....And 22 is significant as well (also in the Qabballah sp?)
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