Caylee Marie Anthony #139 6/21/09 - 6/24/09

[mamacrazy30]

I had to do it and looked up purge fluids. I had initially thought that was the reason for the taping. I'm still not sure. Purge fluids can occur 2-4 hours after death. Could have been rage and manner or death or it could have been the onset of  purge fluids. We will probably never know.

Good night Monkeys. Sleep well.

Good Nite, Tupelohoney.   

I am going to go myself. My hubby just glared at me out from under the pillow that is over his head. Now I have got to find a way to move two cats out of the way so I will have a place to sleep.

Good Nite, Ya'll. And God Bless. 

night miss Mae


sweet dreams..( i swear i will get this out of my system before the end of the night)  sweet dreams

[Blumonkey]

Now, I am caught up on reading and will tell you the thought I have about how the defense will try to use the information found on autopsy regarding the craniosynostosis.
We know they will be grasping at straws to find anything to create reasonable doubt. Do you remember when Jessie was interviewed and he told LE he was with KC when she had a seizure? I didn't go back and read that again, but at the time I thought acute alcohol poison. I don't think Jessie thought it had anything to do with alcohol. I remember he said her lips turned blue, she had involuntarily movements and she "foamed at the mouth." He 
was concerned enough to take her to the ER and I think she was admitted overnight. I wonder if she had a CT scan? The hospital where I work would do a CT and neurological work up. Now 20% of craniosynostosis is hereditary. Whether KC has this anomaly or not,
the defense could use this for reasonable doubt. Far fetched ? I think not. Read back over
the posts today and you will see the confusion by some very intelligent and discriminating posters. The defense will have to create confusion to create reasonable doubt in this case.I hope the prosecution is aware of this and has a neurologist as the expert witness that can break this all down in layman's terms.

but if it were the craniowhatsit?  that caused the seizure, then they would have treated her for it and if it were that bad wouldn't sugary be needed?  and jessy also stated that when she left the hospital they said there was nothing medically wrong with her.  she said she had drank too many red bulls....but i think thats bull myself

I am not saying it makes sense but they may use it as one way to muddy the waters and create reasonable doubt. If a CT was not done they could say she had a neurological problem and was misdiagnosed and under treated.

[Blink34]

Serious question.  Do we know who cleaned up the dog poop around the Ant house?  I bet Casey hated doing it and found ways to get around it.  If that is the case you can be sure she would not be trying to apply multiple pieces of tape over caylee's mouth and nose while decomp fluid is seeping out.  If the tape was there to stop fluid she would have also done something over the eyes.

Maybe I am confused but I was under the impression that Dr. G found that the tape was applied PRIOR to decomp?

[mamacrazy30]

Now, I am caught up on reading and will tell you the thought I have about how the defense will try to use the information found on autopsy regarding the craniosynostosis.
We know they will be grasping at straws to find anything to create reasonable doubt. Do you remember when Jessie was interviewed and he told LE he was with KC when she had a seizure? I didn't go back and read that again, but at the time I thought acute alcohol poison. I don't think Jessie thought it had anything to do with alcohol. I remember he said her lips turned blue, she had involuntarily movements and she "foamed at the mouth." He 
was concerned enough to take her to the ER and I think she was admitted overnight. I wonder if she had a CT scan? The hospital where I work would do a CT and neurological work up. Now 20% of craniosynostosis is hereditary. Whether KC has this anomaly or not,
the defense could use this for reasonable doubt. Far fetched ? I think not. Read back over
the posts today and you will see the confusion by some very intelligent and discriminating posters. The defense will have to create confusion to create reasonable doubt in this case.I hope the prosecution is aware of this and has a neurologist as the expert witness that can break this all down in layman's terms.

but if it were the craniowhatsit?  that caused the seizure, then they would have treated her for it and if it were that bad wouldn't sugary be needed?  and jessy also stated that when she left the hospital they said there was nothing medically wrong with her.  she said she had drank too many red bulls....but i think thats bull myself

I am not saying it makes sense but they may use it as one way to muddy the waters and create reasonable doubt. If a CT was not done they could say she had a neurological problem and was misdiagnosed and under treated.

i don't think that would be a smart move on their part.  that would be saying that she had a medical problem that didn't affect her in any way except it made her steal, lie, and kill...other than that she's fine...ot but my brother in law went to the hospital 2 weeks ago for appendecitis?  his symptoms were pain and he though he had appendicitus .  they insisted on giving him a ct and then they determined he had appedicitus.  i remember back in the day they would just press on ya and say does that hurt.

[klaasend]

Serious question.  Do we know who cleaned up the dog poop around the Ant house?  I bet Casey hated doing it and found ways to get around it.  If that is the case you can be sure she would not be trying to apply multiple pieces of tape over caylee's mouth and nose while decomp fluid is seeping out.  If the tape was there to stop fluid she would have also done something over the eyes.

Maybe I am confused but I was under the impression that Dr. G found that the tape was applied PRIOR to decomp?

Yes Blink - you are correct:

[Northern Rose]

Serious question.  Do we know who cleaned up the dog poop around the Ant house?  I bet Casey hated doing it and found ways to get around it.  If that is the case you can be sure she would not be trying to apply multiple pieces of tape over caylee's mouth and nose while decomp fluid is seeping out.  If the tape was there to stop fluid she would have also done something over the eyes.

Maybe I am confused but I was under the impression that Dr. G found that the tape was applied PRIOR to decomp?

You are not confused. I doubt Casey ever once thought about decomp fluid  being part of the events post death and I doubt she mucked about with tape to stop decomp fluid.  This subject keeps coming up as a possibility for the tape.

[TURBOTHINK]

Now, I am caught up on reading and will tell you the thought I have about how the defense will try to use the information found on autopsy regarding the craniosynostosis.
We know they will be grasping at straws to find anything to create reasonable doubt. Do you remember when Jessie was interviewed and he told LE he was with KC when she had a seizure? I didn't go back and read that again, but at the time I thought acute alcohol poison. I don't think Jessie thought it had anything to do with alcohol. I remember he said her lips turned blue, she had involuntarily movements and she "foamed at the mouth." He 
was concerned enough to take her to the ER and I think she was admitted overnight. I wonder if she had a CT scan? The hospital where I work would do a CT and neurological work up. Now 20% of craniosynostosis is hereditary. Whether KC has this anomaly or not,
the defense could use this for reasonable doubt. Far fetched ? I think not. Read back over
the posts today and you will see the confusion by some very intelligent and discriminating posters. The defense will have to create confusion to create reasonable doubt in this case.I hope the prosecution is aware of this and has a neurologist as the expert witness that can break this all down in layman's terms.

but if it were the craniowhatsit?  that caused the seizure, then they would have treated her for it and if it were that bad wouldn't sugary be needed?  and jessy also stated that when she left the hospital they said there was nothing medically wrong with her.  she said she had drank too many red bulls....but i think thats bull myself

I am not saying it makes sense but they may use it as one way to muddy the waters and create reasonable doubt. If a CT was not done they could say she had a neurological problem and was misdiagnosed and under treated.

I brought this up a week after they charged KC as a likely defense. Here it is again.

Psychomotor seizure defense. It has been used sucessfully in cases. If they can prove prior seizures (which may be something she has had since a child but hidden)

The are temporal lobe seizures with elaborate and multiple sensory, motor, and/or psychic components.

A common feature is the clouding of consciousness and amnesia for the event. Some clinical manifestations may include more complex behaviors like burst of anger, emotional outbursts, fear or automatisms. The eEG often reveals spike discharges in the temporal lobe during sleep.

[mamacrazy30]

Serious question.  Do we know who cleaned up the dog poop around the Ant house?  I bet Casey hated doing it and found ways to get around it.  If that is the case you can be sure she would not be trying to apply multiple pieces of tape over caylee's mouth and nose while decomp fluid is seeping out.  If the tape was there to stop fluid she would have also done something over the eyes.

Maybe I am confused but I was under the impression that Dr. G found that the tape was applied PRIOR to decomp?

Yes Blink - you are correct:

hooray..well, that settles the tape before death/after death issue.

[mamacrazy30]

Now, I am caught up on reading and will tell you the thought I have about how the defense will try to use the information found on autopsy regarding the craniosynostosis.
We know they will be grasping at straws to find anything to create reasonable doubt. Do you remember when Jessie was interviewed and he told LE he was with KC when she had a seizure? I didn't go back and read that again, but at the time I thought acute alcohol poison. I don't think Jessie thought it had anything to do with alcohol. I remember he said her lips turned blue, she had involuntarily movements and she "foamed at the mouth." He 
was concerned enough to take her to the ER and I think she was admitted overnight. I wonder if she had a CT scan? The hospital where I work would do a CT and neurological work up. Now 20% of craniosynostosis is hereditary. Whether KC has this anomaly or not,
the defense could use this for reasonable doubt. Far fetched ? I think not. Read back over
the posts today and you will see the confusion by some very intelligent and discriminating posters. The defense will have to create confusion to create reasonable doubt in this case.I hope the prosecution is aware of this and has a neurologist as the expert witness that can break this all down in layman's terms.

but if it were the craniowhatsit?  that caused the seizure, then they would have treated her for it and if it were that bad wouldn't sugary be needed?  and jessy also stated that when she left the hospital they said there was nothing medically wrong with her.  she said she had drank too many red bulls....but i think thats bull myself

I am not saying it makes sense but they may use it as one way to muddy the waters and create reasonable doubt. If a CT was not done they could say she had a neurological problem and was misdiagnosed and under treated.

I brought this up a week after they charged KC as a likely defense. Here it is again.

Psychomotor seizure defense. It has been used sucessfully in cases. If they can prove prior seizures (which may be something she has had since a child but hidden)

The are temporal lobe seizures with elaborate and multiple sensory, motor, and/or psychic components.

A common feature is the clouding of consciousness and amnesia for the event. Some clinical manifestations may include more complex behaviors like burst of anger, emotional outbursts, fear or automatisms. The eEG often reveals spike discharges in the temporal lobe during sleep.

at this point in time i wouldn't put it past her to fake that seizure in order to set this up..its crazy but xanex can do the same thing (esp if your drinking and taking it)

[mamacrazy30]

must..get..sleep
c-ya later skater gators.

[TURBOTHINK]

Now, I am caught up on reading and will tell you the thought I have about how the defense will try to use the information found on autopsy regarding the craniosynostosis.
We know they will be grasping at straws to find anything to create reasonable doubt. Do you remember when Jessie was interviewed and he told LE he was with KC when she had a seizure? I didn't go back and read that again, but at the time I thought acute alcohol poison. I don't think Jessie thought it had anything to do with alcohol. I remember he said her lips turned blue, she had involuntarily movements and she "foamed at the mouth." He 
was concerned enough to take her to the ER and I think she was admitted overnight. I wonder if she had a CT scan? The hospital where I work would do a CT and neurological work up. Now 20% of craniosynostosis is hereditary. Whether KC has this anomaly or not,
the defense could use this for reasonable doubt. Far fetched ? I think not. Read back over
the posts today and you will see the confusion by some very intelligent and discriminating posters. The defense will have to create confusion to create reasonable doubt in this case.I hope the prosecution is aware of this and has a neurologist as the expert witness that can break this all down in layman's terms.

but if it were the craniowhatsit?  that caused the seizure, then they would have treated her for it and if it were that bad wouldn't sugary be needed?  and jessy also stated that when she left the hospital they said there was nothing medically wrong with her.  she said she had drank too many red bulls....but i think thats bull myself

I am not saying it makes sense but they may use it as one way to muddy the waters and create reasonable doubt. If a CT was not done they could say she had a neurological problem and was misdiagnosed and under treated.

I brought this up a week after they charged KC as a likely defense. Here it is again.

Psychomotor seizure defense. It has been used sucessfully in cases. If they can prove prior seizures (which may be something she has had since a child but hidden)

The are temporal lobe seizures with elaborate and multiple sensory, motor, and/or psychic components.

A common feature is the clouding of consciousness and amnesia for the event. Some clinical manifestations may include more complex behaviors like burst of anger, emotional outbursts, fear or automatisms. The eEG often reveals spike discharges in the temporal lobe during sleep.

at this point in time i wouldn't put it past her to fake that seizure in order to set this up..its crazy but xanex can do the same thing (esp if your drinking and taking it)

I don't think that would work. In all the cases where this was used successfully that I have found there was a long history of a seizure disorders. My brother defended a man who had Temporal Lobe Epilepsy after a car accident. (no one was hurt, just a trial about money) and the guy had no recollection of anything prior to the accident for almost 30 minutes. He had driven many miles automatically before hitting a building. After he was taken to the hospital the entire episode did not register in his brain at all. The last thing he remembered was going to his car from a restaurant until he woke up in a hospital bed. 

He never denied the accident, but the facts of the case were very interesting with the rage he talked of having totally no memory of in past seizures and  made me think about her using that for defense if she had a history of seizure disorders in the past they have hidden.

It involves a temporary impairment of consciousness characterized by psychic symptoms, loss of judgment, automatic behavior, and abnormal acts. It is often associated with temporal lobe disease. No apparent convulsions occur, but there may be loss of consciousness or amnesia for the episode. During the seizure the individual may appear drowsy, intoxicated, or violent and may commit asocial acts or crimes, but normal activities, such as driving a car, typing, or eating, may continue at an automatic level. Psychic symptoms, including visual and auditory hallucinations, a sense of unreality, and déjà vu, may be present and may be accompanied by visceral symptoms, such as chest pain, transient respiratory arrest, tachycardia, and GI discomfort, and by abnormal sensations of smell and taste. Also called psychomotor epilepsy.

Here is some good information on it.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1184509-overview

[TURBOTHINK]

http://www.springerlink.com/content/jq85357311428244/

Craniosynostosis is a little known organic factor in sociopathy. This factor should be among those taken into consideration in selecting patients to undergo craniotomy. Among 22 000 skulls of neuropsychiatric patients, there were 100 with premature coronal synostosis, compared with 57 with dolichocephaly. Thirty-seven of the 100 patients with coronal synostosis exhibited disorders of social adaptation; frontal cortex functions are assumed to be involved. There were 34 cases of mental deficiency, 21 case of psychosis, 13 of cerebral vascular disease, 10 cases of epilepsy, 4 of acrocephalosyndactyly, 3 of decompensation by slight craniocerebral trauma, and 1 case of ependymoma of the IV ventricle. Dolichocephalic patients exhibited a stronger tendency towards depressivc states and cerebral vascular disease. The risks of cosmetic impairment and resulting psychosocial problems are discussed; especially in girls with oxy- and scaphocephaly craniofacial correction, is indicated, as it is also in patients with Saethre-Chotzen syndrome. In cases of premature synostosis of the coronal suture or synostosis of several sutures for carrying out a craniotomy, it is advisable to employ a combination of orbito-frontosphenoidal osteotomy for extension of the anterior cranial fossa. Craniosynostosis is a risk factor which, depending on the individual case and the sex and age of the patient, can impair central nervous functions, social adaption, and the blood supply of the brain.
Key words  Craniosynostosis - Frontal lobe dysfunctions - Personality disorders - Cosmetic impairment - Indications for craniotomy - Craniosynostosis syndrome

[Blumonkey]

Now, I am caught up on reading and will tell you the thought I have about how the defense will try to use the information found on autopsy regarding the craniosynostosis.
We know they will be grasping at straws to find anything to create reasonable doubt. Do you remember when Jessie was interviewed and he told LE he was with KC when she had a seizure? I didn't go back and read that again, but at the time I thought acute alcohol poison. I don't think Jessie thought it had anything to do with alcohol. I remember he said her lips turned blue, she had involuntarily movements and she "foamed at the mouth." He 
was concerned enough to take her to the ER and I think she was admitted overnight. I wonder if she had a CT scan? The hospital where I work would do a CT and neurological work up. Now 20% of craniosynostosis is hereditary. Whether KC has this anomaly or not,
the defense could use this for reasonable doubt. Far fetched ? I think not. Read back over
the posts today and you will see the confusion by some very intelligent and discriminating posters. The defense will have to create confusion to create reasonable doubt in this case.I hope the prosecution is aware of this and has a neurologist as the expert witness that can break this all down in layman's terms.

but if it were the craniowhatsit?  that caused the seizure, then they would have treated her for it and if it were that bad wouldn't sugary be needed?  and jessy also stated that when she left the hospital they said there was nothing medically wrong with her.  she said she had drank too many red bulls....but i think thats bull myself

I am not saying it makes sense but they may use it as one way to muddy the waters and create reasonable doubt. If a CT was not done they could say she had a neurological problem and was misdiagnosed and under treated.

I brought this up a week after they charged KC as a likely defense. Here it is again.

Psychomotor seizure defense. It has been used sucessfully in cases. If they can prove prior seizures (which may be something she has had since a child but hidden)

The are temporal lobe seizures with elaborate and multiple sensory, motor, and/or psychic components.

A common feature is the clouding of consciousness and amnesia for the event. Some clinical manifestations may include more complex behaviors like burst of anger, emotional outbursts, fear or automatisms. The eEG often reveals spike discharges in the temporal lobe during sleep.

You are so right. I wonder if she has had an EEG?

[TURBOTHINK]

One thing I forgot to put in that is there is a definite connection between craniosynostosis and frontal lobe epilepsy. (Temporal lobe (complex seizure)  They are both originating in the temporal lobe region of the brain.

[Cappuccino]

Whew, I've been on a reading marathon... finally caught up with all you fast moving monkeys!

Now a few things that are making me go hmmmmm..............  Hopefully some of you smart ones can fill me in.  I've asked some of these questions before but in the height of the autopsy release my questions weren't answered or if they were I completely missed the answers.  Also a couple of new questions creeped up.

1.  I'm wondering if someone could fill me in on Casey and her activites at the motel on 06/15/08?  Who spotted her there and do we know how long she was there?  I hadn't heard about this before finding scaredmonkeys.

2.  Someone mentioned Blink had some connections to the case and now I'm curious in what form.  Reporter, medical professional, married to someone on the prosecution team????  Just being nosey if I may.

3.  Most of what I know about this case I've seen on Nancy Grace or read here.  I'm curious how much credibility fellow monkeys give to Leonard Padilla and his statements?  I've heard him mention several times that Casey doesn't think things out in advance, she lives 10 minutes at a time and if that's the case it makes for interesting thoughts on if she was calculating enough to even have a plan/alibi.

4.  We know that the jailhouse video of Casey's reaction to the remains of Caylee being found will not be released to the public.  Will they be able to use this at the trial?

Thanks monkeys in  advance!   

I can only answer #1&#3.

Both have about the same answer. Lenny is the one that has stated numerous times that Casey was seen pacing in the motel parking lot that night/morning. There has been nothing official about it however.

He has also been on Nancy Grace several times and some of his statements have been way out there. However, he hit the nail on the head several times too. He was the one that clued the FBI on the fact of Hoover's tape of D Casey in the wood, for instance. He also made the statement that Caylee's body had been found before it actually was. I do think D Casey may have found her remains before Kronk reported it. It remains to be seen if it is true. He has had much information of what went on in the Anthony household while he had her out on bond. Those are the interviews I want to see. Rob's, Tracy's and Lenny's. It wouldn't hurt my feeling to see his depo in the civil case with Morgan. JMO

Regarding 1 &3, a man called Lenny to say he was at a motel & stated he saw Casey pacing the parking lot on her cell in the early late evening/morning hours of 16th.  The reason why there has not been anything further mentioned about it is that the man never called Lenny back & he was hoping he would.  He questioned why the man chose to call him but Lenny did advise to call OCSO but Lenny did not know if the man ever did, this is what I was told by Lenny.   When Lenny speaks of Casey living in the next 10 mins. it does not necessarily go to whether she is bright or not but moreover that she lives her life & bounces off of it wihtin short intervals as she goes.

As far as what weight to put to Lenny's statements, some of it is factual, some of it is no different than we all do here theorizing every day going over the discovery & facts surrounding the case.  His advantage (if you want to call it that) is that he, Rob & Tracey had 9 days of interaction with the Anthonys, heard things no one else has & have had boots on the ground.  He's been right about things, he's been wrong about others & several times he hasn't been afraid to admit when he's been incorrect.

4  Very big question mark, but possible, depends on a few considerations when it comes time to argue its admissibility at trial or if the defense speaks to it before trial while its presently under seal which is a no-no.

[Cappuccino]

Serious question.  Do we know who cleaned up the dog poop around the Ant house?  I bet Casey hated doing it and found ways to get around it.  If that is the case you can be sure she would not be trying to apply multiple pieces of tape over caylee's mouth and nose while decomp fluid is seeping out.  If the tape was there to stop fluid she would have also done something over the eyes.

Maybe I am confused but I was under the impression that Dr. G found that the tape was applied PRIOR to decomp?

That is what the report said prior to decomp.  It did not say whether the tape was applied before, during or immediately after the murder.

[trimmonthelake]

Good Morning Monkeys. 

[leslee]

Serious question.  Do we know who cleaned up the dog poop around the Ant house?  I bet Casey hated doing it and found ways to get around it.  If that is the case you can be sure she would not be trying to apply multiple pieces of tape over caylee's mouth and nose while decomp fluid is seeping out.  If the tape was there to stop fluid she would have also done something over the eyes.

Maybe I am confused but I was under the impression that Dr. G found that the tape was applied PRIOR to decomp?

That is what the report said prior to decomp.  It did not say whether the tape was applied before, during or immediately after the murder.

IIRC decomposition begins within 4 minutes of death.
Based on that information, to be placing duct tape on someone during a murder is a highly ambitious task. Immediately afterword would suggest KC used the duct tape to hold in the fluids, I would think she would have wrapped the whole head if that were the case. I think we will see the state keeping it simple ( in contrast to Bozo). While they can not determine the cause of death, and toxicology reports can not support drugs being used, the manner in which the duct tape was applied suggests suffocation.

[leslee]

Good Morning Monkeys. 

morning Trimm... I think I saw your witless cart being hauled on a trailer yesterday

[trimmonthelake]

Good Morning Monkeys. 

morning Trimm... I think I saw your witless cart being hauled on a trailer yesterday

   OMG.Was it Fanny?No wonder I couldn't find it.