Caylee Marie Anthony #139 6/21/09 - 6/24/09

[no rose colored glasses]

Interesting that the defense forensics expert said that the autopsy report doesn't prove there was a murder.   OK AZZHOLE - how did Caylee die then?   Did she just go into the woods and put duct tape on herself.   I hate those scumbags.  I hope they all rot in hell.     

Thank you for posting this Sassy - I was on my way to post the same sentiment. 

I have to believe the photos will show the skull with the duct tape wrapped around it when they discovered even though the lying scumbag Dr for the defense says he didn't see any duct tape.  This gets my blood boiling once again.

I might be wrong but didn't Kronk say something about duct tape?

[no rose colored glasses]

Good Evening Monkeys - I am in the previous cage catching up but I have wondered about the diary entry and if it is an entry from 03 could the Slore be referring to her having had an abortion?  "I hope the end justifies the means....."  and that might shed some light on why Sindy said while on the phone with 911 "I am not losing another one?"  Just a thought. 

JSM you are a hoot - you have your own thread - I look forward to reading there in a bit. 

ok, i'm gonna do math here..if casey is 23 in 09 then she would have been 17 at the time.  wouldn't she need cyn's permission?  and if indeed thats what she's talking about, then why not do the same while preggers with Caylee.  she was of age and if she hadn't wanted her (kiomarie statement) why not just do it?  she didn't need permission and nobody had to know.

I too have wondered about this situation and that comment. My 'feeling' about why Caylee was not aborted early on is that kc was under such tight control via Cindy that kc made very few decisions on her own. CA may have been IN every aspect of KC's life. I read a book not long ago about emotional incest and I suspect this of Cindy and her daughter.
(I was raised by a mother who was similar to Cindy in that way) By the time most daughters are 17 they have started the process of autonomy.  I do not think kc was that free. That process needs to proceed in steps.  It seems to me that kc just took a giant leap at 22 and was in no way prepared for the consequences.
If you are familiar with covert incest, you may have read such books as Silently Seduced.(Kenneth M. Adams)
It seems quite likely to me that this was the relationship between CA and her daughter.
If this makes no sense it is because it is yet early for this old brain AND my perspective is a bit jaded due to my own upbringing.

It makes perfect sense to me, it was not in my upbringing, but I uderstand what you are saying. Actually you answered some questions for me, that has been bothering me with their relationship. The book is something I am going to look into, thanks.

[jen3560]

I don't think you miss anything Fanny!   
Klaas has a new byline under her avatar. 

I thought it was interesting that the forensic expert for the defense said he didn't see the body with any duct tape on it. I'm wondering how he can conclude it might not be murder if he never saw that.

That raised my eyebrows as well, CBB.

It almost sounded as if Spitz was inferring that Dr G was lying about having found the duct tape where she did.

[Western Observr]

Interesting that the defense forensics expert said that the autopsy report doesn't prove there was a murder.   OK AZZHOLE - how did Caylee die then?   Did she just go into the woods and put duct tape on herself.   I hate those scumbags.  I hope they all rot in hell. 
*************************
this would be laughable if it wasnt so sad...they must think a jury is stupid...the one thing that always leaves an impression on jurors is that Casey was the last one to see Caylee alive, plus all the lies...please...there is no other person who killed Caylee

It's so obvious to us all, and I'm praying that EACH jury member will have a good dose of common sense. It only takes one to be in left field somewhere.

My bet is that the defense will spend a tremendous amount of time, money, and effort in selecting a jury. That effort will make or break everything, IMO. I keep remembering OJ, and his verdict was a done deal from the point a jury was selected. The defense knew their strategy, and they successfully looked for jurors who would buy it. I wonder what profile they are looking for?

They'll do study groups, I'm sure of that!

Bet on it, the jury consultants will have a field day. These high profile cases are nothing short of a travesty of justice to me. This case has spun so out of control, good luck reeling it in. You need one juror with an agenda, and all the money, hours, extensive work means nothing. I've really wondered about justice, many times the victim never gets justice, because of all this bs, that I don't believe for a second was ever intended to be like. The system needs a good revamping, and lets start with jury instructions, please make it understandable to the average person, that might help some.

Exactly!

Or, God forbid, a Juror who wants to write a book and get his share of notoriety..

[crazybabyborg]

We've all had the feeling that the defense is preparing to throw Cindy under the bus. I think they are, but I'm thinking their choice would be to paint her with a brush of a controlling, biotch that fostered jealousy of Caylee and was cruelly critical of Casey. Therefore, when Caylee accidentally died while being supervised by Casey, Casey hid it and went into total denial. I just don't know if they can proceed down that path because I don't know how insistant Casey is on sticking to the ZG story. I hope she's not willing to move an inch in that direction!

As long as there were jailhouse videos of C&G and Casey discussing this "phantom" nanny, it made it harder to move away from it, and I hate Baez has stopped those. At this point, we don't have a single one since Caylee has been found.


edit: Typed Casey............... should have been Caylee....

[always 1]

I am curious about something.  When Casey had this "seisure" was she given a EEG?  Did she go on seisure medication?  Was she denied the right to drive for a year?  I also dont understand how when Caylee was so taped up, did the teeth end up outside of the body?

[klaasend]

When I read this, I read it to mean they believe that the duct tape was wrapped around the head and that is the reason the mandible stayed in place.  If the tape hadn't been all the way around and sticking to the hair, the mandible would have fallen completely away after decomposition.

So no matter what caused the actual death, the manner treated (duct tape over mouth and nose) would indicate homicide (a hateful act if not what killed her).

[crazybabyborg]

I don't think you miss anything Fanny!   
Klaas has a new byline under her avatar. 

I thought it was interesting that the forensic expert for the defense said he didn't see the body with any duct tape on it. I'm wondering how he can conclude it might not be murder if he never saw that.

That raised my eyebrows as well, CBB.

It almost sounded as if Spitz was inferring that Dr G was lying about having found the duct tape where she did.

That's the impression I had, too, Jen! Surely there are pictures, though.

[Northern Rose]

The defense is continually harping that there is no cause of death and will (and have been) using that to dispel all the evidence as anything to do with foul play.

On a even more disturbing note.  Anyone seen this before?  what is mycitysocial.com?

[Missiontoconvict]

I've been looking at the phone records/cell tower pings from this site  http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p6Pnw95vqOo-MgZ7Vsp9pYg&gid=7

It appears that Cindy called Casey from home at 5:06 pm and there was a little over 3 min. call. Most likely Cindy said come home we need to talk.

The next time Casey used her phone was at 7:06 pm to text Tony.

So I am assuming that that was the time frame that Casey and Cindy had their altercation.

From 7:06 pm Casey was on the phone all night with Tony.

From what I can tell Casey was in the area of her home on 6/16 around 1:00 and shortly after 4:00.  There was a flurry of calls shortly after 4:00 also.

Casey may have smothered Caylee with the duct tape the evening of the 15, possibly within that 2 hour window frame between 5 and 7 pm.

Or she may have killed her at the house on the 16th between 1:00 and 1:44 as there is a 44 minute lapse in phone activity after she made a call at 1:00. I'm leaning towards this as the day, place and time of death, due to the access of duct tape/trash bags from the house.     (Yes I have changed my mind for the last time as far as the duct tape being the cause of death and not to prevent purge fluids!)   Either way, Caylee was bagged on the 16th and placed in the trunk.

Then Brian Burner loans a shovel and Casey's car is backed into the garage on the 18/19th. This is when I think that Caylee was again bagged and placed in the laundry hamper. This also fits with the 2.6 days of decomposition in her trunk. I believe she dumped Caylee's body shortly after this. I don't think Caylee was in the trunk when George wanted to get into the trunk that day of the 24th. I think Casey was trying to keep him from the smell.

Of course, this is just my thoughts and opinions.

I'm glad you used that spread sheet. I had to look for two days straight to find it again.

I agree with everything except the time of death. I think Casey was in a rage the night before on the 15th. This seems more like a rage killing to me, and that would have been the time for it, when her adrenalin was really flowing. jmo

I agree with everything as well tupelohoney but I am with Fanny about her killing her in a rage and can you imagine how angry KC was at Caylee for crying - she was more thank likely screaming at this poor child to be quiet and the more she did that the more Caylee cried which was all it took.

[klaasend]

I am curious about something.  When Casey had this "seisure" was she given a EEG?  Did she go on seisure medication?  Was she denied the right to drive for a year?  I also dont understand how when Caylee was so taped up, did the teeth end up outside of the body?

The teeth would fall out the back.  The duct tape would be less likely able to stick to the teeth due to saliva/moisture inside the mouth, IMO.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/SkullTeeth.jpg

[always 1]

I am curious about something.  When Casey had this "seisure" was she given a EEG?  Did she go on seisure medication?  Was she denied the right to drive for a year?  I also dont understand how when Caylee was so taped up, did the teeth end up outside of the body?

The teeth would fall out the back.  The duct tape would be less likely able to stick to the teeth due to saliva/moisture inside the mouth, IMO.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/SkullTeeth.jpg

Thank you.

[Northern Rose]

I don't think you miss anything Fanny!   
Klaas has a new byline under her avatar. 

I thought it was interesting that the forensic expert for the defense said he didn't see the body with any duct tape on it. I'm wondering how he can conclude it might not be murder if he never saw that.

That raised my eyebrows as well, CBB.

It almost sounded as if Spitz was inferring that Dr G was lying about having found the duct tape where she did.

That's the impression I had, too, Jen! Surely there are pictures, though.

I listened to him several times and his words were chosen very carefully.  He is correct, from everything I have read there was do duct tape that was found to be attached to the skull.  The duct tape was attached to the the hair and they only mention the hair  - never the bone.   The skin and tissue that the duct tape had formerly been attached to as it covered her mouth and nose had fully decomposed.  This left the duct tape free floating so to speak except for where the hair was still. There would be no tape residue on the skull as the tape was never attached to the bone in the first place.

[klaasend]

The defense is continually harping that there is no cause of death and will (and have been) using that to dispel all the evidence as anything to do with foul play.

On a even more disturbing note.  Anyone seen this before?  what is mycitysocial.com?

Looks like an Orlando party scene website.  Where the party pics from various bars and nightclubs are posted.  Seen alot of this type of thing in researching the NH case and Aruban websites.

By the way, I don't have a problem with Anne moving on with her life, she wasn't the cause of Caylee's death.

[Western Observr]

I don't think you miss anything Fanny!   
Klaas has a new byline under her avatar. 

I thought it was interesting that the forensic expert for the defense said he didn't see the body with any duct tape on it. I'm wondering how he can conclude it might not be murder if he never saw that.

That raised my eyebrows as well, CBB.

It almost sounded as if Spitz was inferring that Dr G was lying about having found the duct tape where she did.

He wasn't even present at the autopsy as far as I can see......?

[jen3560]

I think this line of thinking actually makes a lot of sense.  Follow up for throwing her mother under the bus, and all Casey did was dispose of the body afterward.

Not that I believe anyone but Casey was responsible for Caylee's murder, but to continue on from your train of thought, but omitting the accidental death theory - toss in an obstruction of justice charge, which would be minimal along with illegally disposing of a body (mine in red)

Dr. Baden said on Geraldo that funeral homes sometimes wrap cloth around the head to keep the mouth from opening. I took his point being that the duct tape could have been placed to keep Caylee's mouth from opening after she had died.

Caring mother whose daughter has just died at the hands of Cindy, taking care to keep Caylee "as is" in her mind - duct tapes her jaw closed to keep it intact.  Adds heart shaped sticker because she really loves her daughter and this is killing her to do.

That's where the defense is going IMO. Illegal disposal of a body is not such a big deal legally; certainly not anything like murder. I also think it's the weakest link in th prosecution's case. What exactly do they have to prove that Caylee didn't die accidently and that Casey simple illegally disposed of the body? If that's all the prosecution can prove, then they are short of the bar for conviction of murder one. I think it's very possible, and IMO, the smartest thing the defense could do, to just admit Casey illegally disposed of the body after Caylee died accidentally.

1. Why would she do that?

Caylee died at Cindy's hands, and Casey agreed to keep quiet about it, and helped her by disposing of the body.

2. Why lie about it?

She loves her mom, and couldn't stand the thought of her going to prison.  "You don't know MY involvement?" - Casey Anthony to her mother from jail.

3. How could she party hardy with the knowledge her daughter is dead?

She was simply celebrating life - Caylee would have wanted her to continue with her life, after all, and not dwell on what happened.

4. Why did she search means of death?

She wasn't - really.  She was reading about true crime cases online or in a newspaper, ran into one that included neck breaking, and another that included chloroform - and merely wanted a full understanding of what/why/how; just like the rest of us internet posters do.

Or maybe this one - the house computer is her parent's computer, and so is that laptop.  It wasn't Casey looking those things up, it was her mother.

Casey's behavior is enough for me, but I do wish there was some supporting forensic evidence of murder. A jury can convict her of being a selfish, stupid, cold, biotch, but it doesn't prove she's a premeditated murderer.

Sticking to the ZG story hurts her case, IMO, so I'm all for them staying the course on that one! 

CBB - there is something that keeps my hope alive for the SA to win this case - after the body was found there was a person "close to the case" who has now seen enough to change his/her mind from accident to pre-meditated murder (that was in some article I read somewhere)

[theboyzmom]

I don't think you miss anything Fanny!   
Klaas has a new byline under her avatar. 

I thought it was interesting that the forensic expert for the defense said he didn't see the body with any duct tape on it. I'm wondering how he can conclude it might not be murder if he never saw that.

That raised my eyebrows as well, CBB.

It almost sounded as if Spitz was inferring that Dr G was lying about having found the duct tape where she did.

Spitz is a whore - he will say whatever he is paid to say - I know from when I hired defense experts in med mal - and have had plaintiff attorneys tell me the same.

[Western Observr]

I am curious about something.  When Casey had this "seisure" was she given a EEG?  Did she go on seisure medication?  Was she denied the right to drive for a year?  I also dont understand how when Caylee was so taped up, did the teeth end up outside of the body?

The teeth would fall out the back.  The duct tape would be less likely able to stick to the teeth due to saliva/moisture inside the mouth, IMO.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/SkullTeeth.jpg

Thank you.

Not as far as anyone knows..  She went to an E.R. -  it would be interesting to see what they thought of her 'seizure'.

[no rose colored glasses]

We've all had the feeling that the defense is preparing to throw Cindy under the bus. I think they are, but I'm thinking their choice would be to paint her with a brush of a controlling, biotch that fostered jealousy of Caylee and was cruelly critical of Casey. Therefore, when Caylee accidentally died while being supervised by Casey, Casey hid it and went into total denial. I just don't know if they can proceed down that path because I don't know how insistant Casey is on sticking to the ZG story. I hope she's not willing to move an inch in that direction!

As long as there were jailhouse videos of C&G and Casey discussing this "phantom" nanny, it made it harder to move away from it, and I hate Baez has stopped those. At this point, we don't have a single one since Caylee has been found.


edit: Typed Casey............... should have been Caylee....

You and I are thinking quite a bit alike. I think Andrea is definitely going with the control of Casey, emotional abuse if you will. Karenmamo, with her post and the book she suggested has me really thinking. I'm wondering since Casey never left home, and her mother controlling her every move, when Casey met her new friends, Tony, did she get a taste of freedom, but didn't know exactly what to do with it in a constructive manner? I would love to here more about Casey's earlier years, I know we got some sporadic info, but I would like to hear more. Actually I would like to hear more about Lee, and his life as a child and teen.

[jen3560]

I don't think you miss anything Fanny!   
Klaas has a new byline under her avatar. 

I thought it was interesting that the forensic expert for the defense said he didn't see the body with any duct tape on it. I'm wondering how he can conclude it might not be murder if he never saw that.

That raised my eyebrows as well, CBB.

It almost sounded as if Spitz was inferring that Dr G was lying about having found the duct tape where she did.

That's the impression I had, too, Jen! Surely there are pictures, though.

Oh definitely there are!  That scene investigation was nothing if not thorough.

Also, I think Kronk also mentioned having seen duct tape in one of the media interviews he did.

Or maybe it was in one of the LE interviews?  I don't remember anymore now.