Caylee Marie Anthony #139 6/21/09 - 6/24/09

[NM]

Hi Monkeys,
sorry if already talked about.

The mat of hair has been bothering me. Maybe, I'm missing something but how does a deceased person get a hair mat?
I think of hair mats from being bed-ridden, no hair care, a 34 month old throwing a fit in a car seat or struggling.

This is heartbreaking. Every picture I've seen of Caylee her hair is well taken care of which leads me to believe....


Belated Hellos to CBB and SunnyinTx

I think it is a part of the decomp fluids flowing down into the hair as she laid decomposing and puddling under her. I don't know how to say this in any nicer terms. 

Thanks Fanny
I know I didn't even want to post my question.

PS thanks for all the info and especially the laughs through the tough times.


Desdemona, I also recall skanky signing Amy's name on at least 1 check.

[Desdemona]

Desi,
Very interesting questions about Amy testifying & the check fraud charges.  If a judge allows that case to go foward (ahead of the murder trial) & sets a trial date, what effect will that have on testimony?  Will there be a lot of motions & objections so that anything that affects the murder trial not be entered or allowed?  How can they totaly sever the two when they are somewhat intertwined?  I see somewhat of an overlap.

Yes, as we have with the ZFG civil case as well... and what a treasure trove of info that has been and will be...  I'm liking it.
 

[klaasend]

Hi Monkeys,
sorry if already talked about.

The mat of hair has been bothering me. Maybe, I'm missing something but how does a deceased person get a hair mat?
I think of hair mats from being bed-ridden, no hair care, a 34 month old throwing a fit in a car seat or struggling.

This is heartbreaking. Every picture I've seen of Caylee her hair is well taken care of which leads me to believe....


Belated Hellos to CBB and SunnyinTx

I'm thinking the pony tail?

NM - good to see you!

I hate to even type these words but the hair could have matted due to being covered with decomposition fluids then dried.

[Fanny Mae]

Hi Monkeys,
sorry if already talked about.

The mat of hair has been bothering me. Maybe, I'm missing something but how does a deceased person get a hair mat?
I think of hair mats from being bed-ridden, no hair care, a 34 month old throwing a fit in a car seat or struggling.

This is heartbreaking. Every picture I've seen of Caylee her hair is well taken care of which leads me to believe....


Belated Hellos to CBB and SunnyinTx

I think it is a part of the decomp fluids flowing down into the hair as she laid decomposing and puddling under her. I don't know how to say this in any nicer terms. 

Thanks Fanny
I know I didn't even want to post my question.

PS thanks for all the info and especially the laughs through the tough times.


Desdemona, I also recall skanky signing Amy's name on at least 1 check.

 

[Fanny Mae]

Hi Monkeys,
sorry if already talked about.

The mat of hair has been bothering me. Maybe, I'm missing something but how does a deceased person get a hair mat?
I think of hair mats from being bed-ridden, no hair care, a 34 month old throwing a fit in a car seat or struggling.

This is heartbreaking. Every picture I've seen of Caylee her hair is well taken care of which leads me to believe....


Belated Hellos to CBB and SunnyinTx

I'm thinking the pony tail?

NM - good to see you!

I hate to even type these words but the hair could have matted due to being covered with decomposition fluids then dried.

And also, from scalp slippage. 

[Desdemona]

<snipped by Desi>
Desdemona, I also recall skanky signing Amy's name on at least 1 check.

You know, Capp has got to be right about the one she cashed at Bank of America, since it was made payable to Casey and drawn on Amy's account. 

But I don't remember if she signed as Amy at one of the Target shopping sprees as well, or the other times she paid with Amy's checks (was it at Publix? Wal-Mart?).  Actually, (ICBW of course) but I was thinking she only signed her own name on one of the checks.  Researching this would be too time-consuming and frustrating for me at the moment, so I'll just leave the question mark out there...

[cece]

Desi,
Very interesting questions about Amy testifying & the check fraud charges.  If a judge allows that case to go foward (ahead of the murder trial) & sets a trial date, what effect will that have on testimony?  Will there be a lot of motions & objections so that anything that affects the murder trial not be entered or allowed?  How can they totaly sever the two when they are somewhat intertwined?  I see somewhat of an overlap.

Yes, as we have with the ZFG civil case as well... and what a treasure trove of info that has been and will be...  I'm liking it.
 

Me too, Desi!  This could all get very interesting.  They are starting to come at her (& Bozo) from all angels.

 

[Western Observr]

Hi Monkeys,
sorry if already talked about.

The mat of hair has been bothering me. Maybe, I'm missing something but how does a deceased person get a hair mat?
I think of hair mats from being bed-ridden, no hair care, a 34 month old throwing a fit in a car seat or struggling.

This is heartbreaking. Every picture I've seen of Caylee her hair is well taken care of which leads me to believe....


Belated Hellos to CBB and SunnyinTx

I think it was all just matted up from being compressed and submerged in water/baked in the heat for a lot of the summer........

[Desdemona]

Hi Monkeys,
sorry if already talked about.

The mat of hair has been bothering me. Maybe, I'm missing something but how does a deceased person get a hair mat?
I think of hair mats from being bed-ridden, no hair care, a 34 month old throwing a fit in a car seat or struggling.

This is heartbreaking. Every picture I've seen of Caylee her hair is well taken care of which leads me to believe....

Belated Hellos to CBB and SunnyinTx

I'm thinking the pony tail?

NM - good to see you!

I hate to even type these words but the hair could have matted due to being covered with decomposition fluids then dried.

http://www.lawrenceosborne.net/2008/05/fbi-body-farm-t.html
FBI Body Farm:
Under a row of trees nearby, a woman lies on her back, half rotted away, her arms outstretched in a frozen gesture and her hair lying in a molted mat around her skull.

[Fanny Mae]

NORTHERN ROSE, ARE YOU OK. JUST HEARD THERE WAS AN EARTHQUAKE.

[Desdemona]

Thinking further about the theory of Casey causing Caylee to be unconscious first, then duct-taping her to cause death by asphyxiation....

A pillow would have been so much easier for the purpose of suffocation than duct tape... which would indicate a weakness in this theory ---  UNLESS ---  the murder occurred away from home.... like outdoors somewhere, or perhaps in her car... where there was no pillow around, and she happened to have duct tape handy. 

But then how would we explain the heart sticker; it would probably be a stretch to say she would happen to have a heart sticker and duct tape at hand in the same environment.  Of course, the heart sticker could have been added later as an afterthought, maybe before bagging Caylee's body, like a goodbye kiss because it was the last time she would see Caylee's face?

(I'm making myself so sad here... Quick, somebody shoot down this theory!) 

Duct tape could have also been chosen deliberately, in order to make it look more like a kidnap/murder thing, I dunno.  She did watch CSI and all...

I cannot shoot down your theory, as I have been on this road for a long time. I think the killing was done in the car, and the bagging and sticker placing was done on the 16th during the flurry of calls. She just wanted to be sure the coast was clear. It makes me sad too. 

Wonder if they tested Caylee's car seat for anything, I cant recall any discovery on that right this sec

Caylee's car seat was sent for forensic testing.  It was negative for decomp, but not sure if this was the "air test" or actual decomp fluid.

[Northern Rose]

Hi Monkeys,
sorry if already talked about.

The mat of hair has been bothering me. Maybe, I'm missing something but how does a deceased person get a hair mat?
I think of hair mats from being bed-ridden, no hair care, a 34 month old throwing a fit in a car seat or struggling.

This is heartbreaking. Every picture I've seen of Caylee her hair is well taken care of which leads me to believe....


Belated Hellos to CBB and SunnyinTx

I'm thinking the pony tail?

NM - good to see you!

I hate to even type these words but the hair could have matted due to being covered with decomposition fluids then dried.

The bacteria created by the whole process attracts mites.  Moths also nest.

[Fanny Mae]

Hi Monkeys,
sorry if already talked about.

The mat of hair has been bothering me. Maybe, I'm missing something but how does a deceased person get a hair mat?
I think of hair mats from being bed-ridden, no hair care, a 34 month old throwing a fit in a car seat or struggling.

This is heartbreaking. Every picture I've seen of Caylee her hair is well taken care of which leads me to believe....


Belated Hellos to CBB and SunnyinTx

I'm thinking the pony tail?

NM - good to see you!

I hate to even type these words but the hair could have matted due to being covered with decomposition fluids then dried.

The bacteria created by the whole process attracts mites.  Moths also nest.

Does this mean you didn't feel the earthquake??

[califmom]

I brought this up a week after they charged KC as a likely defense. Here it is again.

Psychomotor seizure defense. It has been used sucessfully in cases. If they can prove prior seizures (which may be something she has had since a child but hidden)

The are temporal lobe seizures with elaborate and multiple sensory, motor, and/or psychic components.

A common feature is the clouding of consciousness and amnesia for the event. Some clinical manifestations may include more complex behaviors like burst of anger, emotional outbursts, fear or automatisms. The eEG often reveals spike discharges in the temporal lobe during sleep.

But how to explain the ugly coping? And, most importantly, how to explain the "script"? Seriously, would Bobo even attempt to say that she had  a seizure that lasted 31 days....and didn't notice that she didn't have her child with her?

(Not to discredit what you said, Turbo, I found it fascinating. However, it is Monday, life is still hell (dang, I thought I'd at least get some purgatory time outta all this crap), and I love poking holes in absolutely anything that looks like the defense might try it.

Of course, I did not get my law degree from K-Mart, so Bobo IS smarter than me!

I really don't know Tevye. I believe their best defense would be blaming George.

Amy better get a cat scan, mri and/or EEG and get cleared from having this PsychomotorSeizure disorder or anything like it... Afterall, she did wake up in a different outfit, with no recollection...

[Fanny Mae]

Thinking further about the theory of Casey causing Caylee to be unconscious first, then duct-taping her to cause death by asphyxiation....

A pillow would have been so much easier for the purpose of suffocation than duct tape... which would indicate a weakness in this theory ---  UNLESS ---  the murder occurred away from home.... like outdoors somewhere, or perhaps in her car... where there was no pillow around, and she happened to have duct tape handy. 

But then how would we explain the heart sticker; it would probably be a stretch to say she would happen to have a heart sticker and duct tape at hand in the same environment.  Of course, the heart sticker could have been added later as an afterthought, maybe before bagging Caylee's body, like a goodbye kiss because it was the last time she would see Caylee's face?

(I'm making myself so sad here... Quick, somebody shoot down this theory!) 

Duct tape could have also been chosen deliberately, in order to make it look more like a kidnap/murder thing, I dunno.  She did watch CSI and all...

I cannot shoot down your theory, as I have been on this road for a long time. I think the killing was done in the car, and the bagging and sticker placing was done on the 16th during the flurry of calls. She just wanted to be sure the coast was clear. It makes me sad too. 

Wonder if they tested Caylee's car seat for anything, I cant recall any discovery on that right this sec

Caylee's car seat was sent for forensic testing.  It was negative for decomp, but not sure if this was the "air test" or actual decomp fluid.

Thanks Desi. I was wrong again. I guess I will go over and post on JSM Banning Thread.   

[Northern Rose]

NORTHERN ROSE, ARE YOU OK. JUST HEARD THERE WAS AN EARTHQUAKE.

Yes fine.  I am not in Alaska, closer to Yellowknife.  I am fairly certain that I felt something, like a big truck going under the house but was on the phone.  Thought the dog had bad gas.

[Puzzler]

I've been looking at the phone records/cell tower pings from this site  http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p6Pnw95vqOo-MgZ7Vsp9pYg&gid=7

It appears that Cindy called Casey from home at 5:06 pm and there was a little over 3 min. call. Most likely Cindy said come home we need to talk.

The next time Casey used her phone was at 7:06 pm to text Tony.

So I am assuming that that was the time frame that Casey and Cindy had their altercation.

From 7:06 pm Casey was on the phone all night with Tony.

From what I can tell Casey was in the area of her home on 6/16 around 1:00 and shortly after 4:00.  There was a flurry of calls shortly after 4:00 also.

Casey may have smothered Caylee with the duct tape the evening of the 15, possibly within that 2 hour window frame between 5 and 7 pm.

Or she may have killed her at the house on the 16th between 1:00 and 1:44 as there is a 44 minute lapse in phone activity after she made a call at 1:00. I'm leaning towards this as the day, place and time of death, due to the access of duct tape/trash bags from the house.     (Yes I have changed my mind for the last time as far as the duct tape being the cause of death and not to prevent purge fluids!)   Either way, Caylee was bagged on the 16th and placed in the trunk.

Then Brian Burner loans a shovel and Casey's car is backed into the garage on the 18/19th. This is when I think that Caylee was again bagged and placed in the laundry hamper. This also fits with the 2.6 days of decomposition in her trunk. I believe she dumped Caylee's body shortly after this. I don't think Caylee was in the trunk when George wanted to get into the trunk that day of the 24th. I think Casey was trying to keep him from the smell.

Of course, this is just my thoughts and opinions.

I'm glad you used that spread sheet. I had to look for two days straight to find it again.

I agree with everything except the time of death. I think Casey was in a rage the night before on the 15th. This seems more like a rage killing to me, and that would have been the time for it, when her adrenalin was really flowing. jmo

I couldn't agree with you more, Fanny Mae. I've thought that since day one.  I don't buy for a second that Georgie saw them on the morning of the 16th - and not just because there's no way in HELL he could remember in such detail exactly what each were wearing and carrying. B freaking S!!

Good afternoon, monkeys!

I believe this was a rage killing, too. Casey was in a rage that Cindy choked her, that Cindy threatened her with taking Caylee, that Casey (in her mind) believed that all Cindy wanted was Caylee and Casey came in 2nd place.  Remember: "All anyone cares about is Caylee."  I believe Casey decided she would show Cindy and so she did.  Casey probably choked Caylee (as Cindy did to Casey) or smothered her.  The layer after layer of duct tape put onto Caylee's face is in-and-of-itself a rage act.  I can just visualize Casey putting on layer after layer of tape in a furious fit.  Each layer symbolized to Casey that 'I'll show Mom..she tried to choke me...I'll show her I'm in control".  And she was...right after that, Casey was and never will be in control again in her life.  That simple thought will eat away at Casey, day after day, for as long as she lives. 

I'm also thinking that Casey killed Caylee in the bedroom.  Went out into the garage and got the duct tape to shut up Caylee forever, wrapped her in the Winnie-the-Pooh blanket (like Caylee was just sleeping - just in case Cindy walked in) and later (when Cindy was asleep) put Caylee into a black garbage bag(s) and put her into the trunk and drove off (because Casey couldn't get away from Caylee in the bedroom) to the hotel parking lot and was seen pacing in the parking lot.  IMO

[Nut44x4]

lol ... pull my finger ... 

[Fanny Mae]

NORTHERN ROSE, ARE YOU OK. JUST HEARD THERE WAS AN EARTHQUAKE.

Yes fine.  I am not in Alaska, closer to Yellowknife.  I am fairly certain that I felt something, like a big truck going under the house but was on the phone.  Thought the dog had bad gas.

 

Somehow I knew that even if you were right in the middle of an earthquake you would just keep trodding right along.   

[seemeatthebeach]

It would be hard to overcome the evidence of her cashing those checks though.        But she did plead Not Guilty to the charges.

With Amy saying in one of the transcripts that she woke up with different clothes on and no idea how that happened I am sorry to say that they could use that against her.  They could claim Amy willing gave Casey the cheques and just can not remember.  Casey does no wrong.  Casey will throw anyone under the bus.  That is what I have seen so far so why change now?

That was regarding cash, the checkbook was left in Amy's car & at no time during the discussion of missing that $400 did a checkbook or missing checks come up.   Amy went to PR & the checkbook was in her car that Casey was driving.  The checks should have been caught by the cashiers because Casey did not sign it in Amy's name, she signed it Casey Anthony.   In addition, it could very well come up via witness testimony that Casey stealing her grandparents checks will come up which were well before Caylee's murder (pattern).

Didn't she sign one of them "Amy Huizenga," too?  (Though they still should have caught her by properly ID'ing her.)