Caylee Marie Anthony #139 6/21/09 - 6/24/09

[Puzzler]

Maybe I am confused but I was under the impression that Dr. G found that the tape was applied PRIOR to decomp?

That is what the report said prior to decomp.  It did not say whether the tape was applied before, during or immediately after the murder.

IIRC decomposition begins within 4 minutes of death.
Based on that information, to be placing duct tape on someone during a murder is a highly ambitious task. Immediately afterword would suggest KC used the duct tape to hold in the fluids, I would think she would have wrapped the whole head if that were the case. I think we will see the state keeping it simple ( in contrast to Bozo). While they can not determine the cause of death, and toxicology reports can not support drugs being used, the manner in which the duct tape was applied suggests suffocation.

I don't think the drug evidence is over yet. The report on the maggots has not been released and I am betting that is being held for trial. Maggots larvae will have the same drugs in them that the body does.

Anybody ever had the thought that Casey "slipped Amy a mickey" on at least two occasions?  Once when she woke up with different pants on, and once when she woke up $400 poorer?

Caylee could have been knocked out in the same way.  The duct tape could have been applied once she was unconscious, to cause death by suffocation.  No screaming, no struggling, no need to physically restrain Caylee.  There's the "soft death" that some people talk about.  Caylee wasn't in a swimsuit. And she wasn't in her jammies, at least I don't think so.  She seemed to have been dressed in day clothes.  This scenario could have taken place at any time.  (Did we ever figure out about the purple band on the pull-ups?  Regular, swimmers, or overnight??)

Soft death or not, that scenario would certainly be more cold and premeditated than the rage-killing theory.

Anyway, if they will be trying Casey for the fraud charges, that means Amy gets to testify... The cash theft should be able to be brought in, right?  Regardless, details related to the theft from Amy will add meat to the murder case IMO...

I believe it was last Friday's NG show, a medical examiner stated that "drugs" would not show up in testing if a person had been given an over-dose or a lethal dose of drugs because the drugs would not have time to get into the system before death.

[leslee]

during the 911 call Casey stated that she had not seen Caylee in 31 days and in that same night she told detectives that she dropped her off on 6/9 which is NOT 31 days, its 36 which indicates she was formulating an alibi & really screwed up with that utterance.

Snipped from Capps post.

I think this is THE most telling thing. Any caring mother would know the time their child was missing down to the day, hour, minute, and second. There would never be a discrepancy in this. She would not make a five day mistake like that unless she really didn't care and was trying to think off the top of her head. That also could be said for the Anthonys. JMO

You are absolutely right!!  I know I would what day, hour, minute, second...

 They She had "31" days to  plan their story and come up with the script  look for Caylee...how could they mess up the date like that?  I can't help but think that something significant happened on the 9th... I don't know what or why, but it has bugged me since day one.  jmo

KC the murderous slore knew exactly how many days it had been....like an alcoholic counts off when they had the last drink. She was prolly saying "ok I made it two days... three  days..." I don't think anything happened the 9th other than Sindy mispoke. Quick look at your checkbook calender and tell me when Mothers Day was.

[NM]

Thank you Monkeys for all your replies to the hair mat.

It make sense being from fluids, insects, and movements from decomp, water, etc.

I wish they would make skank read this report out loud, over and over and over again.


Hi Klaas!!!!!

[Puzzler]

Thinking further about the theory of Casey causing Caylee to be unconscious first, then duct-taping her to cause death by asphyxiation....

A pillow would have been so much easier for the purpose of suffocation than duct tape... which would indicate a weakness in this theory ---  UNLESS ---  the murder occurred away from home.... like outdoors somewhere, or perhaps in her car... where there was no pillow around, and she happened to have duct tape handy. 

But then how would we explain the heart sticker; it would probably be a stretch to say she would happen to have a heart sticker and duct tape at hand in the same environment.  Of course, the heart sticker could have been added later as an afterthought, maybe before bagging Caylee's body, like a goodbye kiss because it was the last time she would see Caylee's face?

(I'm making myself so sad here... Quick, somebody shoot down this theory!) 

Duct tape could have also been chosen deliberately, in order to make it look more like a kidnap/murder thing, I dunno.  She did watch CSI and all...

I cannot shoot down your theory, as I have been on this road for a long time. I think the killing was done in the car, and the bagging and sticker placing was done on the 16th during the flurry of calls. She just wanted to be sure the coast was clear. It makes me sad too. 

For all monkeys (myself included), who get overwhelmed with sadness and rage at times over the egregious acts of Casey:

"But then how do we EXPLAIN...." The answer is that we can't explain.  Thankfully, the way that Casey thinks is rare.  We don't think like she thinks.  We can't rationalize something that is not normal.  It's TOO BIG of a burdon to put upon oneself to try to "explain" what Casey did.

My 2 cents...

[trimmonthelake]

O/T
I am thinking that things are not going so well today between TRIMM and the nice man from the telephone company. 

I'm here...slooowly trying to catch up.Nothing fixed yet. 
Nancy Grace should be interesting tonight.
Yea,Klaas is here. 

[Puzzler]

Desi,
Very interesting questions about Amy testifying & the check fraud charges.  If a judge allows that case to go foward (ahead of the murder trial) & sets a trial date, what effect will that have on testimony?  Will there be a lot of motions & objections so that anything that affects the murder trial not be entered or allowed?  How can they totaly sever the two when they are somewhat intertwined?  I see somewhat of an overlap.

Yes, as we have with the ZFG civil case as well... and what a treasure trove of info that has been and will be...  I'm liking it.
 

I'm liking it, too!  I'm especially intrigued by Dominic Casey.  Boy....Morgan sure put it to them in his last motion.  Can't wait to see the outcome of that!

[TURBOTHINK]

Yes, the Milstead's house is in foreclosure, right? So I wonder where they are living, maybe the boat 

On one of the blogs somewhere it said they were and had been living with the Anthonys. I do know they are on the computer all the time until the wee hours of the morning.

[Desdemona]

IMO the 31 days of partying go well to prove KC no longer wanted to be burdened with a child and her family history suggests it would be a cold day in hell when she would give that baby to Sindy. Adoption? Too late she killed her to spite her mother "I am a spiteful bitch". How often do your parents words come back to haunt you and make you think THAT IS EXACTLY what you are?

I agree, leslee. 

On the night of July 15, Casey also discussed with Lee how "Mom" had always "thrown it in her face" that she was an "unfit mother," adding, "Maybe I am." 

When he asked her why she was preventing her mom from seeing Caylee, she said, "Maybe I'm a spiteful bitch."  (Possibly quoting an epithet Cindy had previously called her?)

And let's not forget the question that always gives me the chills:

7 LA: And I felt like she was only willing to open up to me at this point now that I've
8 gotten through to her. And I was trying to ask her who took her. You know,
9 "When's the last, when, when," you know and all these questions. And and that's
10 when she goes, "She was kidnapped." And she wasn't speaking in details. She
11 was speaking in generalities. And as soon as that started happening my mother
12 realized that I'm whispering to my sister, she gets you know, smart to the
13 situation and realizes my sister is saying something and she busts into the room.
14 And again, the door wasn't shut or anything, but she comes into the room, sees
15 that my sister was crying, and she said, and actually the first thing that she asked
16 her, she says, "What have you done?"
17 EE: Really?
18 LA: That's the first question that my mom asks her.
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:0DAO49P7OIEJ:investigation.discovery.com/blogs/criminal-report/casey_anthony_full_coverage/files/lee-anthony-interview.pdf+Lee+Anthony+interviewed+by+%22spiteful+bitch%22+%22What%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

[NM]

snipped

IMO the 31 days of partying go well to prove KC no longer wanted to be burdened with a child and her family history suggests it would be a cold day in hell when she would give that baby to Sindy. Adoption? Too late she killed her to spite her mother "I am a spiteful bitch". How often do your parents words come back to haunt you and make you think THAT IS EXACTLY what you are?

I agree Leslee.


which answer below makes more sense as to why you would call youself a spiteful bitch?
A. the babysitter stole my daughter and I'm not going to tell my mother.
B. I killed my daughter b/c I hate my mother.

[califmom]

Casey Anthony: Nancy Grace tells 'The View' you 'don't need motive'
posted by halboedeker on Jun 22, 2009 12:12:43 PM
Discuss This: Comments (2) | TrackBack (0) | Linking Blogs | Add to del.icio.us | Digg it
The Casey Anthony case made its way on "The View" this morning.

The "View" panelists wanted guest Nancy Grace's take on the saga of slain toddler Caylee Anthony and her mother, Casey, who is charged with the child's murder.

HLN host Grace talked about the autopsy and the finding of duct tape on the child's face -- "prior to decomposition, most likely while the girl was alive."

The "View" team reacted with revulsion.

"But there's no motive?" Barbara Walters asked.

"Don't need motive," Grace said. "If I had to crawl into every murderers' head that I ever prosecuted, I'd still be trying to prove my first murder. Why would you murder anybody? But it does help the state to have a motive."

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/06/casey-anthony-nancy-grace-tells-the-view-you-dont-need-motive.html

It just breaks my heart to hear the words "murder"  "motive" and "two year old" in the same breath.

[always 1]

That is the type of seisure I had following my car wreck due to frontal lob damage and you all know I am fine fine fine!!!!  Ha!  But I did have years of seisure medication, bio feedback and therapy!!!

[Fanny Mae]

O/T
I am thinking that things are not going so well today between TRIMM and the nice man from the telephone company. 

I'm here...slooowly trying to catch up.Nothing fixed yet. 
Nancy Grace should be interesting tonight.
Yea,Klaas is here. 

Did you ever find the Witless News Cart?? I think Nutt had it last! 

[leslee]

IMO the 31 days of partying go well to prove KC no longer wanted to be burdened with a child and her family history suggests it would be a cold day in hell when she would give that baby to Sindy. Adoption? Too late she killed her to spite her mother "I am a spiteful bitch". How often do your parents words come back to haunt you and make you think THAT IS EXACTLY what you are?

I agree, leslee. 

On the night of July 15, Casey also discussed with Lee how "Mom" had always "thrown it in her face" that she was an "unfit mother," adding, "Maybe I am." 

When he asked her why she was preventing her mom from seeing Caylee, she said, "Maybe I'm a spiteful bitch."  (Possibly quoting an epithet Cindy had previously called her?)

And let's not forget the question that always gives me the chills:

7 LA: And I felt like she was only willing to open up to me at this point now that I've
8 gotten through to her. And I was trying to ask her who took her. You know,
9 "When's the last, when, when," you know and all these questions. And and that's
10 when she goes, "She was kidnapped." And she wasn't speaking in details. She
11 was speaking in generalities. And as soon as that started happening my mother
12 realized that I'm whispering to my sister, she gets you know, smart to the
13 situation and realizes my sister is saying something and she busts into the room.
14 And again, the door wasn't shut or anything, but she comes into the room, sees
15 that my sister was crying, and she said, and actually the first thing that she asked
16 her, she says, "What have you done?"
17 EE: Really?
18 LA: That's the first question that my mom asks her.
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:0DAO49P7OIEJ:investigation.discovery.com/blogs/criminal-report/casey_anthony_full_coverage/files/lee-anthony-interview.pdf+Lee+Anthony+interviewed+by+%22spiteful+bitch%22+%22What%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Yes that question burns at me because I can imagine KC looking at her mother and her mother knowing full well WHAT she did and Sindy being unable to accept that says "Who took her" and KC seeing the pain in her mothers eyes maybe isn't as gratifying as she thought it was going to be and so instead of telling the truth, takes the "out" her mother has always given her and says "the nanny".

[cece]

Desi,
Very interesting questions about Amy testifying & the check fraud charges.  If a judge allows that case to go foward (ahead of the murder trial) & sets a trial date, what effect will that have on testimony?  Will there be a lot of motions & objections so that anything that affects the murder trial not be entered or allowed?  How can they totaly sever the two when they are somewhat intertwined?  I see somewhat of an overlap.

Yes, as we have with the ZFG civil case as well... and what a treasure trove of info that has been and will be...  I'm liking it.
 

I'm liking it, too!  I'm especially intrigued by Dominic Casey.  Boy....Morgan sure put it to them in his last motion.  Can't wait to see the outcome of that!

Well, we are at/near the end of June, so does anyone know if the Civil Judge has rescheduled George & Cindy's hearing regarding their depo? 

[TURBOTHINK]

If they do go forward with the check fraud trial, I think the defense will do a plea deal on this one. They don't want to be in court before the murder trial with testimony. IMO

I disagree.   She would not stop the ZG trial by saying that this was not THE ZG and counter sued.  She has been reported to be reading law books while behind bars.  I cannot see her pleaing to anything.  She will probably counter sue Amy for defamation or something just as stupid.

It would be hard to overcome the evidence of her cashing those checks though.        But she did plead Not Guilty to the charges.

With Amy saying in one of the transcripts that she woke up with different clothes on and no idea how that happened I am sorry to say that they could use that against her.  They could claim Amy willing gave Casey the cheques and just can not remember.  Casey does no wrong.  Casey will throw anyone under the bus.  That is what I have seen so far so why change now?

The difference is Amy has a good reputation and a good work record. They also have the texts where KC was "helping her look' for them. I always believed KC drugged Amy to be able to get the money because she knew Amy had it.

[leslee]

O/T
I am thinking that things are not going so well today between TRIMM and the nice man from the telephone company. 

I'm here...slooowly trying to catch up.Nothing fixed yet. 
Nancy Grace should be interesting tonight.
Yea,Klaas is here. 

Did you ever find the Witless News Cart?? I think Nutt had it last! 

IDK Fanny I saw someone hauling it down my road yesterday

[no rose colored glasses]

O/T
I am thinking that things are not going so well today between TRIMM and the nice man from the telephone company. 

I'm here...slooowly trying to catch up.Nothing fixed yet. 
Nancy Grace should be interesting tonight.
Yea,Klaas is here. 

What in the world are they doing that would take this long?  Don't they know you need your computer and phone to work properly?

[Gypsy DD]

Serious question.  Do we know who cleaned up the dog poop around the Ant house?  I bet Casey hated doing it and found ways to get around it.  If that is the case you can be sure she would not be trying to apply multiple pieces of tape over caylee's mouth and nose while decomp fluid is seeping out.  If the tape was there to stop fluid she would have also done something over the eyes.

Maybe I am confused but I was under the impression that Dr. G found that the tape was applied PRIOR to decomp?

That is what the report said prior to decomp.  It did not say whether the tape was applied before, during or immediately after the murder.

IIRC decomposition begins within 4 minutes of death.
Based on that information, to be placing duct tape on someone during a murder is a highly ambitious task. Immediately afterword would suggest KC used the duct tape to hold in the fluids, I would think she would have wrapped the whole head if that were the case. I think we will see the state keeping it simple ( in contrast to Bozo). While they can not determine the cause of death, and toxicology reports can not support drugs being used, the manner in which the duct tape was applied suggests suffocation.

I don't think the drug evidence is over yet. The report on the maggots has not been released and I am betting that is being held for trial. Maggots larvae will have the same drugs in them that the body does.

Still trying to catch up from yesterday.  I have been logged in all day reading off and on.

I had to respond to this because ..not all drug evidence is in..but the cannibus residue on the paper towel  in the trash bag in the car...that has lead me to believe that is the reason why all these young people (excepting Jesse..who is on record in a text message ? why she wanted to meet him and do estacy..we never had to do anyting like that before to have a good time) COPPED EASILY TO YES WE ALL SMOKED SOME MJ ONCE IN A WHILE.  NO ONE CONFESSES TO HARDER DRUGS.  NO ONE WILL EVEN ADMITT THEY EVER SAW HER DRUNK...SHE WAS USING BIG TIME..AND THERE WILL BE SOME EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT...EITHER FROM THE CAR OR CAYLEE'S AUTOPSY.

I am sure some smart SM prior to me has posted this info..but had to chime in on this issue.

[no rose colored glasses]

Yes, the Milstead's house is in foreclosure, right? So I wonder where they are living, maybe the boat 

On one of the blogs somewhere it said they were and had been living with the Anthonys. I do know they are on the computer all the time until the wee hours of the morning.

You would think they would have better things to do then be on the computer all the time. Like worrying and grieving like normal people would be doing, instead of looking to see what people are saying about them and their daughter.

[Fanny Mae]

O/T
I am thinking that things are not going so well today between TRIMM and the nice man from the telephone company. 

I'm here...slooowly trying to catch up.Nothing fixed yet. 
Nancy Grace should be interesting tonight.
Yea,Klaas is here. 

What in the world are they doing that would take this long?  Don't they know you need your computer and phone to work properly?

TRIMM, Do you want us to start an e-mail campaign??