Caylee Marie Anthony #140 6/24/09 - 7/05/09

[Western Observr]

Another thing I can't figure out for the life of me..... Why in the hell would LE allow Cindy or ANY family member for that matter touch evidence? Why wasn't that purse/wallet bagged and tagged immediately? Nobody should have been pawing through it, pulling out contents and taking money, saying "that's MINE". There is no way to know if that cash could have helped in some way compared to a receipt, etc. That was really wrong of LE and in the light of the Jon Bonet Ramsey case, I would think that LE would have had some training on what to do at a crime scene or "How to collect Evidence 101" class. 

That has always bothered me to Boo, she nicked the money and says "that's mine"? And they let her? 

I think she went through that purse before Police were ever on the scene.  Not sure if they asked much about it when they did come, or inventory the contents.

[joesamas mama]

Another thing I can't figure out for the life of me..... Why in the hell would LE allow Cindy or ANY family member for that matter touch evidence? Why wasn't that purse/wallet bagged and tagged immediately? Nobody should have been pawing through it, pulling out contents and taking money, saying "that's MINE". There is no way to know if that cash could have helped in some way compared to a receipt, etc. That was really wrong of LE and in the light of the Jon Bonet Ramsey case, I would think that LE would have had some training on what to do at a crime scene or "How to collect Evidence 101" class. 

That has always bothered me to Boo, she nicked the money and says "that's mine"? And they let her? 

I think she went through that purse before Police were ever on the scene.  Not sure if they asked much about it when they did come, or inventory the contents.

Thanks WO, that makes sense.

[Grumbles]

Western, wasn't there a female PC there who reached over and took out some ID right after Cindy took the cash? I am sorta remembering that.

[BooMonkey]

Hey JSM, it's just you and me and 18 guests!!

Hey Boo, howya doing? I have a thought on the fake id if anyone would like to hear it.

Oh yes, please do share!

[Desdemona]

Hi Monkeys, popped in to get caught up reading here and to share with you a bunch of confusing info I've found.  The tattoo date is NOT pinned down after all. Did some more research.  Some of the known evidence and witness statements point to the 2nd of July; some to the 3rd.

LE has not released the actual waiver statement Casey would have had to sign when she had the tat done.  According to the tat shop owner's LE interview, they photocopied her driver license on the back.  Hmm... The tattoo artist (Bobby Lee Williams) claims it was around noon on July 2, but LE has not released his interview, either.  Why not?  And they have not released a photo of the tattoo itself. (This latest request to photograph it implies LE never had a photo, right?  Why not?)  Nor do we know the precise wording/spelling of the tattoo.  There is even confusion about exactly where it is located.  Right shoulder, left shoulder, upper back or upper arm?  I don't recall ever hearing how she paid for it, or how much it cost.  Why the mystery, after all this time?

In the news article that was posted here earlier, Bobby Lee Williams stated he gave Casey the tattoo around noon on July 2, and that she talked mostly about Tony the whole time.

On WS, I read that on July 2, around 10:20am was the last access date for Casey's laptop picture of Caylee at the nursing home.  Then shortly before 11am Casey composed the Diary of Days blog she would post on her myspace on the 7th.  Then around noon she got the tattoo "Bella Vita" at Cast Iron.  This poster even says that her cell phone pings agree with her being there at that time, for around 40-45 mins. IIRC. 
(Link:)http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2740944&postcount=141

However, others point out that she could have just been hanging out at Cast Iron on July 2, then returned July 3 for the tattoo.  The cell pings are a problem July 3, but are also contested by some for July 2. 

Zenaida Gonzalez (the real one) and her (now ex-)boyfriend both have multiple tattoos, and were both shown as Friends on the Cast Iron Tattoo myspace.  If either or both of them were regular fixtures at Cast Iron like Casey was, it's possible Casey could have overheard talk in that manner about ZG looking at the apartment at Sawgrass on 6/17.  I've never been able to figure out how Casey knew a ZG was connected to Sawgrass...

Casey's first tat, according to Bobby Cast Iron, was at age 18.  That would make her association with him/them around 4 years.  That is also coincidentally about how long she stated to LE that she had known Zenaida the imagi-nanny.  ZG told LE on 7/16 that she did not recognize Casey.  But what if Casey at some point had accessed the customer records at Cast Iron and found Zenaida that way?

Back to the date of the Bella Vita tattoo, one odd thing is that Jesse told LE that Annie told him Casey showed up alone at Cast Iron to get her tat on July 3 AT 2:46pm.  Why that specific time?  (And this does not agree with the tat artist's recollection of the time she was there.)  Maybe Annie was reporting to Jesse about a text or phone call from Casey at that date/time.

Also, Troy told LE that Casey went somewhere with a big heavily-tattooed guy on July 3 and came back with the new tattoo.  That sounds like Sean Daly, but could be someone else.  Sean told LE that Casey was there at Cast Iron on July 2, but says HE was the one getting a tattoo. Heck, knowing Casey's normal MO, she may have had it done the 2nd and told friends it was done on the 3rd, who knows?

See?  Too much information.  No solid conclusions.  I think I'm gonna give up on this one for now.  As with the maddening BabyDaddy question, even if we don't have enough info to figure it out, I pray that LE and the SAO have this one nailed.  (Thanks, Gypsy, for asking Blink about the daddy question.)

Goodnight all, and thanks for listening to my ramblings.

Desi- Excellent Points. Just throwing this out there for consumption- IIRC, LE requested that "form" it was presumed Casey signed for the 7/2-7/3 tat, HOWEVER, Danny was not able to immediately locate it within the file, and was going to get back to them with it. He was referring to their normal practice of photocopying a DL on the back, not specifically that was done with Casey, but that it was assumed so, as it was SOP.

Either that day or the next, Casey could not buy booze in the liquor store because she did not have her DL..   I am of the opinion because she was a long time client, they may have foregone the "DL" issue.  Dont forget Melissa England's interview...

On the baby daddy issue, I have said from day one I believe it is Jose Ortiz, and that has not changed. JP Chatt was not even in the picture until AFTER Caylee was born. I get more " GTFO" out's with this opinion than any other, and I will be the first to take my seat in the dunk tank if proven wrong, but I dont think I am.

Thank you, Blink!  Good stuff here. 

Okay.  Regarding the tat shop forms procedure Blinky is talking about, see the clip below from Danny Colamarino's interview.
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/09%20Danny%20Colamarino%20Transcript.pdf

Regarding the July 4 liquor store incident she mentions, see the clip below from Will Waters's interview.
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/14%20William%20Waters%20July%2030,%202008(1).pdf

Blink, I have never seen an interview of Melissa England!  Have you?  Please share!!  All my data on Melissa is from a reference in one of Yuri's reports about her having called him on July 17, and references to events during her Orlando visit by Troy and Amy in their interviews.  And btw, in Troy's and Amy's interviews, they both seem mixed up about exactly when which events occurred over July 1-3! 
Troy:  http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/11%20Troy%20Brown%20July%2025,%202008.pdf
Amy:  http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/08%20Amy%20Huizenga%20July%2023,%202008.pdf

In OSCO's Investigative Report narrative where the tattoo is mentioned, it says Casey got her tattoo either July 2nd or 3rd!
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:duWZnEieCu8J:blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/files/01.pdf+July+17+Melissa+England+called+Yuri+Melich&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

One more thing:  Danny Colamarino said in his interview that he spoke with Casey on Tuesday, July 15 when she came to Cast Iron in Amy's car.  He said he heard about her arrest the next day, Wednesday July 16, on the news -- it was his day off.  Now.  This is REALLY a s-t-r-e-t-c-h, but >>>>> Danny also tells LE that the day Casey came in for the Bella Vita tattoo in early July, he was not there; it was his day off.  SOooo... IF perchance Danny's regular day off is Wednesday... then she got tatted on Wednesday, July 2.

Didn't I say I was going to give up on this whole pin-down-the-tattoo thing?   
---------------------
Oh, and I ruled out Jose and JP as BabyDaddy when I saw that DNA report that said 1% match to Hispanic sample.
Blink, please explain -- are we misinterpreting that report?  (Highly likely!)

SORRY FOR THE LOOOOOOOONG POST!

[BooMonkey]

Western, wasn't there a female PC there who reached over and took out some ID right after Cindy took the cash? I am sorta remembering that.

Yes there was a female PC there, that's why I want to know WHY Cindy was allowed to go through the wallet while she was there. That officer should have grabbed it and put it in a bag for evidence. Not let the family go through it first and remove items.

[tupelohoney]

Western, wasn't there a female PC there who reached over and took out some ID right after Cindy took the cash? I am sorta remembering that.

Yes, on page 25   http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/01%20Lee%20Anthony%20July%2029,%202008.pdf

[Tevye]

Western, wasn't there a female PC there who reached over and took out some ID right after Cindy took the cash? I am sorta remembering that.

I'm not Western, don't even play her on TV, but I do remember LE took out a "card" type item. I've long suspected it was a fake ID. Musta been a bunch of rookies on duty that night.

[joesamas mama]

Hey JSM, it's just you and me and 18 guests!!

Hey Boo, howya doing? I have a thought on the fake id if anyone would like to hear it.

Oh yes, please do share!

Okay, I'm not sure how easy it is to do today, but I have a long, semifunny story.

Years ago, when they changed the drinking age in Texas from 18 to 19, then to 21 a friend of mine (NOT ME) decided to take her sister's birth certificate to the DPS office and say she "lost" her drivers license and needed a new one. They told her, if she didn't pay her $300 fine for a ticket she got she was going to jail. (her sister got a speeding ticket and had a warrant out on her). So, she had to call her Dad up, he had to bring the money to the DPS office and she had to explain why she was trying to get ID in her sister's name.

SO if KC had Amy's Birth Certificate/SS card, she could have gone to the DPS office and got a DL with KC's picture on it with Amy's name.

I don't know what they do now, I renew mine online, so I don't have to take the eye test. Just a thought to throw out there. Thanks for listening to my story. 

[joesamas mama]

Western, wasn't there a female PC there who reached over and took out some ID right after Cindy took the cash? I am sorta remembering that.

Yes there was a female PC there, that's why I want to know WHY Cindy was allowed to go through the wallet while she was there. That officer should have grabbed it and put it in a bag for evidence. Not let the family go through it first and remove items.

I don't understand it either Boo. I am behind, was the purse in the car for sure when the Ants picked it up. As nosy as Cindy is, if she dug threw the car for Amy's number, she d@mn well would have gone threw KC's purse if it was in the car first thing. I am very confused about the purse. 

[joesamas mama]

DID Lee bring the purse back from Tony's? Tupelo, thanks for the link to LA's transcript.

I seems to me Lee brought the purse back but I was skimming the transcript. George says the purse was in the car. I am so confused. 

[Western Observr]

Western, wasn't there a female PC there who reached over and took out some ID right after Cindy took the cash? I am sorta remembering that.

Yes, on page 25   http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/01%20Lee%20Anthony%20July%2029,%202008.pdf

I can't get that file to open, and I am trying to remember details but they're not coming....   maybe the Policewoman didn't realize the importance of the items at the time.  They were trying to drag info out of Casey re the 'kidnapping'- I'm sure they were all saying "What's with this crazy family" at the time- remember they didn't even take the car for 24hrs or so, the scale of what had happened was becoming clearer as they interviewed Casey again, and followed up on all her lies.

[Northern Rose]

Western, wasn't there a female PC there who reached over and took out some ID right after Cindy took the cash? I am sorta remembering that.

I'm not Western, don't even play her on TV, but I do remember LE took out a "card" type item. I've long suspected it was a fake ID. Musta been a bunch of rookies on duty that night.

In Lee's depo he states the female officer grabbed something out of the wallet that looked like an ID (he stated old style drivers license) when Cindy was grabbing the cash.  Lee also states in this depo that is was not till after the Whoraldo interview in front of the house that Bobo asked for the receipts and got them.

[tupelohoney]

DID Lee bring the purse back from Tony's? Tupelo, thanks for the link to LA's transcript.

I seems to me Lee brought the purse back but I was skimming the transcript. George says the purse was in the car. I am so confused. 

There was a purse left in the car and Lee did bring back another from Tony's that had some ID(s) Lee said he saw a newer version of a DL and another that was white. The female officer in the room grabbed the IDs pretty fast so Lee did not have a chance to see what they actually were.


This comes from Lee's 7/29/08 interview. Maybe it can be opened from docstoc.com

[BooMonkey]

night monkeys

[tupelohoney]

Northern Rose is correct in that Lee saw an ID that may have been an older DL but he also did see a newer version DL that had the hologram on it.   Our posts seemed to contradict each other. 

[joesamas mama]

DID Lee bring the purse back from Tony's? Tupelo, thanks for the link to LA's transcript.

I seems to me Lee brought the purse back but I was skimming the transcript. George says the purse was in the car. I am so confused. 

There was a purse left in the car and Lee did bring back another from Tony's that had some ID(s) Lee said he saw a newer version of a DL and another that was white. The female officer in the room grabbed the IDs pretty fast so Lee did not have a chance to see what they actually were.


This comes from Lee's 7/29/08 interview. Maybe it can be opened from docstoc.com

Thanks Tupelo, two purses makes a lot of sense. TIA JSM

[joesamas mama]

night monkeys

Nite Boo, I said a prayer for you tonight at Mass.  Hugs JSM

[Northern Rose]

night monkeys

Nite Boo.  Hope you have a restfull sleep.

[Desdemona]

A friend found several links about Frank John McKeever:

From WS  http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75577&page=2 I found this link:  http://www.lcso.org/asp/inmatepublic/mugshot_booking_detail.asp?bookingnumber=67905

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f3/scammer-warning-61318/index2.html

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f68/scammer-clonetroop-arrested-65800/

Thanks Tupelo..tht is the dude and notice his girlfirends name is Amanda.  So more then likely this is tied to the CC fraud on the accouont info someone gave last night.

Which means ..if Casey was able to get personal info off of Mom's computer on some of the patients..she had ready access to her own CC fraud.. and friends in very low places to help her with ID's.

Skany never claimed an Amanda as one of her friends, did she? Danged if I can remember anymore.   

You are right Fanny..Skanky never mentioned an Amanda..but she was this dude's girlfriend..and Amanda was the name on the fake CC someone got out in this guys name (from last night's post).   They were told it could tie back in to the Casey case.  And if Amanda's boyfriend was friends with Skanky and he was making fake ID's for her and showing her how ID theft works...then he has some splainin to do.

I also see he was arrested in February 2008, FOR IMPERSONATING AN OFFICER..which makes me wonder was she stringing along the cop boyfriend at that time?  If so was she doing that to maybe get info from him as to rather they had connected the dots yet?

Okay.  This is probably my fault.  The way I'm remembering this is:  I believe way way back when I had a myspace for the Caylee case, when I first posted the credit card fraud info last September, I wrote "Amanda Williams."  Right away, one of my "friends" caught that the name was actually "Angela Williams" so I corrected it.

However, when this info was found by a Monkey (Shell?) somewhere out there on the net and posted here at SM awhile back, I saw that it had been copied with the original, wrong name.  So, long story short:  The name on the fake credit card account IIRC was "Angela Williams" - not Amanda. 
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So, did Frank McKeever really use the name Tom Franck?  And did Frank know Patrick Bourgeois??  I don't remember hearing this before, though I certainly could have forgotten, or missed it.  I Googled quickly just now and did not find anything on this.  Sorry to ask, but could you please elaborate a bit on this, or share where you found it. Very intriguing...

I do know that Patrick did not mention Frank when he visited Casey in jail, he mentioned Mike Walker.
http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/files/casey_anthony_jail_conversation.mp3Audio of the visit.

TIA, and apologies if someone has already brought this forward; I'm catching up....