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Author Topic: Caylee Marie Anthony #140 6/24/09 - 7/05/09  (Read 289990 times)
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Deenie
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« Reply #1720 on: July 01, 2009, 03:39:50 PM »

Thks Deenie  an angelic monkey

I noticed Dolce's EPIC FAIL without a reference. Monkey Devil!
Hi Lovin
I thought some of the photo's were from Monkey's ...  Smile
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« Reply #1721 on: July 01, 2009, 03:45:47 PM »

we need press releases - I've stooped to looking at porno!!!!

I am sOOOOOOO Sorry Grumbles   . I myself have Never Ever seen that photo ever. And I was just as shocked seeing it today. That's why I said for anyone that wanted to view .. gave that option as open. I am sorry again. We have all speculated that Slore was into doing things for $$$ that was not a 9 to 5 job. ..and or she was a call girl and or escort.
I am still torn .. I can't tell if that is her and or a very much a looka like a slore double.

No worries Deenie  I didn't look at it long enough to tell for sure if it's her! Monkey Devil! Monkey Devil! Monkey Devil!
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« Reply #1722 on: July 01, 2009, 03:50:00 PM »

we need press releases - I've stooped to looking at porno!!!!
Oh my, are we looking at that bad pic again 
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Deenie
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« Reply #1723 on: July 01, 2009, 04:02:20 PM »

oh my another Celebrity ..passed on.  .... Sad.

sorry for the OT

Oscar-Winning Actor Karl Malden Dead At 97
Malden Won Oscar For Role In 'A Streetcar Named Desire'

http://www.wesh.com/entertainment/19917981/detail.html
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« Reply #1724 on: July 01, 2009, 04:03:32 PM »

At slow times like this I'm getting quite fond of Spindy and her stupid stunts!

YOO-HOOOO - S-P-I-N-D-YYYYYY! Whatch doin in there?
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Deenie
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« Reply #1725 on: July 01, 2009, 04:31:29 PM »

At slow times like this I'm getting quite fond of Spindy and her stupid stunts!

YOO-HOOOO - S-P-I-N-D-YYYYYY! Whatch doin in there?
Speaking of Stunts.
Wow where have I been?? I knew this happened with "Ant's" and Lois .. the Chase.
But .... I guess I have never seen Lois before.

 Shocked
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Oe0lE-Enahk&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;rel=0&amp;border=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Oe0lE-Enahk&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;rel=0&amp;border=1</a>
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« Reply #1726 on: July 01, 2009, 05:32:50 PM »

At slow times like this I'm getting quite fond of Spindy and her stupid stunts!

YOO-HOOOO - S-P-I-N-D-YYYYYY! Whatch doin in there?
Speaking of Stunts.
Wow where have I been?? I knew this happened with "Ant's" and Lois .. the Chase.
But .... I guess I have never seen Lois before.

 Shocked
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Oe0lE-Enahk&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;rel=0&amp;border=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Oe0lE-Enahk&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;rel=0&amp;border=1</a>

  I noticed that Lois is looking a lot like Spindy these days. 
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Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #1727 on: July 01, 2009, 06:08:49 PM »

Good morning

Has anyone posted anything from BB11 in the last few days?  I tried to do a search and reading back, but am not getting anything.  Thanks for your help.


Bluesy, I get email updates from BB11, but the last two have come back set to private.  I don't know what's going on.

I have access to BB11's site, there has been no updates of the Caylee story, only Big Brother stuff.
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« Reply #1728 on: July 01, 2009, 06:40:22 PM »

Good morning, monkeys.  I was flipping back through some of the stuff I missed last night and saw Mgoblue's post about Caylee telling Cindy some of what really was going on when she was with Casey, triggering the final rage, (great theory, by the way,) and I had a thought.  Remember when Cindy was trying to shut down websites critical of Casey? I wonder if someone stumbled on the real story, Cindy or Casey or one of their groveling minions saw it, and iniated proceedings.  Some of the stuff out there was pretty scurrilous, but I'll bet there was something to be afraid of.  Unless it was just Control-a-tron Cindy doing her usual stuff.  It just seems odd to attack websites like that.
There was plenty on Scott Peterson, Drew Peterson, and Jon Benet's parents, but I don't remember anyone going to that extreme.  Just a thought....

I have a friend who, like us has followed this case from "Day 1". She truly believes George is Caylee's father. I don't have the same opinion, but that's neither here nor there.....

About 3 weeks ago, her entire photobucket of images was deleted. She has been "banned" as well. She cannot even sign into photobucket on the account. She never received any notification of this action from photobucket.
She had many comparison pictures of George/Caylee, side by side, to show their similar facial features. Again, I don't agree with her even seeing her comparisons. I think Caylee looked a lot like Cindy.....IMO

My brother and my son (13 yrs difference) look like twins. And trust me my brother is not my son's father!

My point is, my friend thinks this was Cindy's doing.....all her images deleted, and "banned" from photobucket.
The images of the George/Caylee was only 1 folder/album. She had hundreds of other pix, many of them the same ones I have in my photobucket of the Scamthony Asylum, with the exception of the George/Caylee comparison photos.......so did this hit a nerve with Cindy??? I don't know, but it does make you scratch your head.........

Sorry for the rambling, but I thought I'd post this when I read your post about Spindy getting other websites shut down Monkalicious.



Hi Seeme & everyone else.

Wish life allowed me to keep up.  But, it doesn't.  So, most of my time is spent catching-up.

Since I'm not really on-line literate, I don't understand how a single person out in cyber space can have another person's sight deleted.  Besides this one, I've also noticed that B11 is not active right now and have read other monkey's comments.  How can one citizen stop others sights and posting?  (You are all so computer literate, so please don't think of me as too stupid.  I just really want to understand.)   
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« Reply #1729 on: July 01, 2009, 06:44:36 PM »




Hi Seeme & everyone else.

Wish life allowed me to keep up.  But, it doesn't.  So, most of my time is spent catching-up.

Since I'm not really on-line literate, I don't understand how a single person out in cyber space can have another person's sight deleted.  Besides this one, I've also noticed that B11 is not active right now and have read other monkey's comments.  How can one citizen stop others sights and posting?  (You are all so computer literate, so please don't think of me as too stupid.  I just really want to understand.)   

I don't know either GoldenOldie. Good to see you.  an angelic monkey

I do know that Spindy had at least one closed down, because the forum used Caylee's name in it. We heard Spindy snarling in the voice mail to John Allen. I am sure she has intimidated quite a few people. JMO
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #1730 on: July 01, 2009, 06:49:53 PM »

Fanny ..I agree that the thing between Casey and Cindy is the driving factor in this case.  Not to ever take up for Casey, but I think Cindy had always put her between a rock and a hard place, George ignored her he had his own problems and she felt abandoned once Lee moved out.

I think Cindy made things impossible for Casey and had been doing that for a long time.  I'll place some examples below..everyone add their thoughts if you like.

Cindy wanted Casey to be socially popular..but didn't want her to have a social life.

Cindy wanted to spend time with Caylee but Cindy did not want to take care of Caylee.

Cindy wanted to be the boss of how Caylee was cared for but didn't want the responsibility of that care.

Cindy wanted Casey to work but Cindy did not like having to take care of Caylee when Casey said she was working, prior to Cindy realizing she wasn't.

Cindy constantly complains about having to care for Caylee, yet when Casey does not have Caylee there when she wants her she also complains.

Cindy wants Casey to go to college, yet makes no attempt at helping her, as far as we know, with college visits and filling out paperwork.

To me the list is endless..Cindy wanted to be free of Casey and the burden of caring for Caylee at that point..she just wanted to play the role of seeing her as a grandmother not care giver.   Which would be fine but she did nothing to encourage Casey's belief in herself that she could handle the situation (Caylee) which Cindy refers to a mistake.  I think Casey already had a fragmented personality and I think that in the last year Cindy had pushed this women over the edge...and they both started pushing back and forth with Caylee in the middle.

Cindy was not a very responsible parent with Casey..I get the feeling Casey could not do anything right in Cindy's eyes..yet Cindy was not about to do anything other then point that out.

Cindy did not want to get custody of Caylee because Cindy's life was a mess too.  She had a daughter who she had a hateful relationship with, a granddaughter she loved but felt was not her responsibility and resented the time and care she took.  Cindy was trying to work to pay off bills while George is zapping the money , as well as Casey was.  Her marriage was falling apart.  She was menopausal, she spoke of hot flashes and I think she was sick to death of her life and her family..but she was lazy in following through on the mothering part and the wife part..she loved to complain but we never hear of a time she put her foot down..other then making Casey come home to watch Caylee.  She really put Casey in a catch 22 relationship that was no way out of short of leaving..and I think Casey finally realized that and snapped..Caylee took the beating for Cindy.

What do you all think?


Gypsy,

I can't be on here for very long, but wanted you to know that I totally agree with you.  You put into words things I've only been able to think about and mentally question.  You are so good at putting things into words.

There's also the question as to how Sin Spin could keep a job in the medical field.  I'm on the outside looking in, but I would think she would be "nurse hell."  I wonder who all she has worked for and how long her employment has lasted.  Any monkeys out there who have experience in the medical field and can explain this?

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« Reply #1731 on: July 01, 2009, 06:54:44 PM »

WELCOLME LYNNEINMD!!!!   
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« Reply #1732 on: July 01, 2009, 06:57:06 PM »

Fanny ..I agree that the thing between Casey and Cindy is the driving factor in this case.  Not to ever take up for Casey, but I think Cindy had always put her between a rock and a hard place, George ignored her he had his own problems and she felt abandoned once Lee moved out.

I think Cindy made things impossible for Casey and had been doing that for a long time.  I'll place some examples below..everyone add their thoughts if you like.

Cindy wanted Casey to be socially popular..but didn't want her to have a social life.

Cindy wanted to spend time with Caylee but Cindy did not want to take care of Caylee.

Cindy wanted to be the boss of how Caylee was cared for but didn't want the responsibility of that care.

Cindy wanted Casey to work but Cindy did not like having to take care of Caylee when Casey said she was working, prior to Cindy realizing she wasn't.

Cindy constantly complains about having to care for Caylee, yet when Casey does not have Caylee there when she wants her she also complains.

Cindy wants Casey to go to college, yet makes no attempt at helping her, as far as we know, with college visits and filling out paperwork.

To me the list is endless..Cindy wanted to be free of Casey and the burden of caring for Caylee at that point..she just wanted to play the role of seeing her as a grandmother not care giver.   Which would be fine but she did nothing to encourage Casey's belief in herself that she could handle the situation (Caylee) which Cindy refers to a mistake.  I think Casey already had a fragmented personality and I think that in the last year Cindy had pushed this women over the edge...and they both started pushing back and forth with Caylee in the middle.

Cindy was not a very responsible parent with Casey..I get the feeling Casey could not do anything right in Cindy's eyes..yet Cindy was not about to do anything other then point that out.

Cindy did not want to get custody of Caylee because Cindy's life was a mess too.  She had a daughter who she had a hateful relationship with, a granddaughter she loved but felt was not her responsibility and resented the time and care she took.  Cindy was trying to work to pay off bills while George is zapping the money , as well as Casey was.  Her marriage was falling apart.  She was menopausal, she spoke of hot flashes and I think she was sick to death of her life and her family..but she was lazy in following through on the mothering part and the wife part..she loved to complain but we never hear of a time she put her foot down..other then making Casey come home to watch Caylee.  She really put Casey in a catch 22 relationship that was no way out of short of leaving..and I think Casey finally realized that and snapped..Caylee took the beating for Cindy.

What do you all think?


Gypsy,

I can't be on here for very long, but wanted you to know that I totally agree with you.  You put into words things I've only been able to think about and mentally question.  You are so good at putting things into words.

There's also the question as to how Sin Spin could keep a job in the medical field.  I'm on the outside looking in, but I would think she would be "nurse hell."  I wonder who all she has worked for and how long her employment has lasted.  Any monkeys out there who have experience in the medical field and can explain this?



She worked for Gentiva, a Home Health Agency, in their office.  There was no direct patient care involved.
Somehow I do not visualize Cindy doing any bedside Nursing.
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« Reply #1733 on: July 01, 2009, 07:07:50 PM »




Hi Seeme & everyone else.

Wish life allowed me to keep up.  But, it doesn't.  So, most of my time is spent catching-up.

Since I'm not really on-line literate, I don't understand how a single person out in cyber space can have another person's sight deleted.  Besides this one, I've also noticed that B11 is not active right now and have read other monkey's comments.  How can one citizen stop others sights and posting?  (You are all so computer literate, so please don't think of me as too stupid.  I just really want to understand.)   

I don't know either GoldenOldie. Good to see you.  an angelic monkey

I do know that Spindy had at least one closed down, because the forum used Caylee's name in it. We heard Spindy snarling in the voice mail to John Allen. I am sure she has intimidated quite a few people. JMO


Hi Fanny!  Haven't communicated with you for awhile.  BTW, I LOVE all of your avatars!  (and of course you, too!!)
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« Reply #1734 on: July 01, 2009, 07:25:50 PM »

Fanny ..I agree that the thing between Casey and Cindy is the driving factor in this case.  Not to ever take up for Casey, but I think Cindy had always put her between a rock and a hard place, George ignored her he had his own problems and she felt abandoned once Lee moved out.

I think Cindy made things impossible for Casey and had been doing that for a long time.  I'll place some examples below..everyone add their thoughts if you like.

Cindy wanted Casey to be socially popular..but didn't want her to have a social life.

Cindy wanted to spend time with Caylee but Cindy did not want to take care of Caylee.

Cindy wanted to be the boss of how Caylee was cared for but didn't want the responsibility of that care.

Cindy wanted Casey to work but Cindy did not like having to take care of Caylee when Casey said she was working, prior to Cindy realizing she wasn't.

Cindy constantly complains about having to care for Caylee, yet when Casey does not have Caylee there when she wants her she also complains.

Cindy wants Casey to go to college, yet makes no attempt at helping her, as far as we know, with college visits and filling out paperwork.

To me the list is endless..Cindy wanted to be free of Casey and the burden of caring for Caylee at that point..she just wanted to play the role of seeing her as a grandmother not care giver.   Which would be fine but she did nothing to encourage Casey's belief in herself that she could handle the situation (Caylee) which Cindy refers to a mistake.  I think Casey already had a fragmented personality and I think that in the last year Cindy had pushed this women over the edge...and they both started pushing back and forth with Caylee in the middle.

Cindy was not a very responsible parent with Casey..I get the feeling Casey could not do anything right in Cindy's eyes..yet Cindy was not about to do anything other then point that out.

Cindy did not want to get custody of Caylee because Cindy's life was a mess too.  She had a daughter who she had a hateful relationship with, a granddaughter she loved but felt was not her responsibility and resented the time and care she took.  Cindy was trying to work to pay off bills while George is zapping the money , as well as Casey was.  Her marriage was falling apart.  She was menopausal, she spoke of hot flashes and I think she was sick to death of her life and her family..but she was lazy in following through on the mothering part and the wife part..she loved to complain but we never hear of a time she put her foot down..other then making Casey come home to watch Caylee.  She really put Casey in a catch 22 relationship that was no way out of short of leaving..and I think Casey finally realized that and snapped..Caylee took the beating for Cindy.

What do you all think?


Gypsy,

I can't be on here for very long, but wanted you to know that I totally agree with you.  You put into words things I've only been able to think about and mentally question.  You are so good at putting things into words.

There's also the question as to how Sin Spin could keep a job in the medical field.  I'm on the outside looking in, but I would think she would be "nurse hell."  I wonder who all she has worked for and how long her employment has lasted.  Any monkeys out there who have experience in the medical field and can explain this?



She worked for Gentiva, a Home Health Agency, in their office.  There was no direct patient care involved.
Somehow I do not visualize Cindy doing any bedside Nursing.


Oh my.  I had to have in-home nurses after a kinda gone-wrong surgery.  They, including whomever I spoke to on the phone, were nothing short of absolutely wonderful.  Makes me wonder if SinSpin was part of the maintenance or cleaning crew.  I just can't imagine an employer allowing her to have any contact with the "outside world."  Esp. those who need medical assistance.
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« Reply #1735 on: July 01, 2009, 07:30:20 PM »

A friend posted this today on a private forum....

One year ago today.....July 1, 2008

Cindy on vacation all week per her video interview.

Tone was in NY; Cameron in Ohio. Casey used Tone’s car while he was out-of-town.
Page 25 http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0923/17540075.pdf

Ricardo said when he woke up around 10:00 a.m., Casey was talking to Amy on the couch.
Pages 19 – 20 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1643158/...do---Statement

Jesse Grund received a phone call at 10:15 a.m. asking to use his shower before she goes to work. She said she had been staying at Tone’s, she did not have a key to his apartment and she could not go to her parent’s. She arrived at 10:39 a.m. She took a shower leaving the door half open. Jesse stayed in the living room. She left around noon.
Pages 19 – 20 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642922/...se---Statement

Casey had her nails done per Amy.
Page 21 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642949/...my---Statement

Credit Card Receipt from JC Penney 4:17 p.m. $31.93
Page 198 http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media...9/42528488.pdf
Video available – page 2 http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media...4/46009131.pdf

Jeff Hopkins saw Casey at the Ale House.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642943/...ff---Statement

Dante Salati saw Casey at Miller’s Ale House around 8:00 p.m. Dante was with Brandon Snow, Sean Daly, Cory Scherr, Daniel and a couple of other people.
Page 4 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFile...ti%20sept8.pdf

Amy and Casey text messages page 53 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1772101/...-Text-Messages

Casey to Amy 07/01 11:02 a.m.: So you’re working all day today.. correct?

Amy to Casey: Not this morning. I couldn’t pick up. I'm in at 5.

Casey to Amy 07/01 11:04 a.m.: Ah, I work 'til 5. Are you closing?

Amy to Casey: Hopefully.

Casey to Amy 07/01 11:06 a.m.: Well if not maybe we can grab a drink.

Amy to Casey: We’ll see. It’s Ricardo’s last night in town so I should probably chill w him. But we will see where the night goes. Oh, bbq at Will’s for the 4th. Then to Eola for fireworks.

Casey to Amy 07/01 11:10 a.m.: Done deal. I’d like to see Ric before he leaves.

Casey to Amy 07/01 1:19 p.m.: Sorry. Was talking to my crazy mother.

Amy to Casey: I should be out of here by 11. Thank god I managed to close. He is really watching out for me.

Casey to Amy 07/01 10:19 p.m.: Good! Call me when you leave.

Casey to Amy 07/01 11:46 p.m. On my way.

Casey spends the night at Ricardo and Amy’s.
Page 20 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1643158/...do---Statement

Casey’s cell records for July 1 pages 21 – 27
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2385297/...rds_615_to_716
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« Reply #1736 on: July 01, 2009, 07:35:17 PM »

Fanny ..I agree that the thing between Casey and Cindy is the driving factor in this case.  Not to ever take up for Casey, but I think Cindy had always put her between a rock and a hard place, George ignored her he had his own problems and she felt abandoned once Lee moved out.

I think Cindy made things impossible for Casey and had been doing that for a long time.  I'll place some examples below..everyone add their thoughts if you like.

Cindy wanted Casey to be socially popular..but didn't want her to have a social life.

Cindy wanted to spend time with Caylee but Cindy did not want to take care of Caylee.

Cindy wanted to be the boss of how Caylee was cared for but didn't want the responsibility of that care.

Cindy wanted Casey to work but Cindy did not like having to take care of Caylee when Casey said she was working, prior to Cindy realizing she wasn't.

Cindy constantly complains about having to care for Caylee, yet when Casey does not have Caylee there when she wants her she also complains.

Cindy wants Casey to go to college, yet makes no attempt at helping her, as far as we know, with college visits and filling out paperwork.

To me the list is endless..Cindy wanted to be free of Casey and the burden of caring for Caylee at that point..she just wanted to play the role of seeing her as a grandmother not care giver.   Which would be fine but she did nothing to encourage Casey's belief in herself that she could handle the situation (Caylee) which Cindy refers to a mistake.  I think Casey already had a fragmented personality and I think that in the last year Cindy had pushed this women over the edge...and they both started pushing back and forth with Caylee in the middle.

Cindy was not a very responsible parent with Casey..I get the feeling Casey could not do anything right in Cindy's eyes..yet Cindy was not about to do anything other then point that out.

Cindy did not want to get custody of Caylee because Cindy's life was a mess too.  She had a daughter who she had a hateful relationship with, a granddaughter she loved but felt was not her responsibility and resented the time and care she took.  Cindy was trying to work to pay off bills while George is zapping the money , as well as Casey was.  Her marriage was falling apart.  She was menopausal, she spoke of hot flashes and I think she was sick to death of her life and her family..but she was lazy in following through on the mothering part and the wife part..she loved to complain but we never hear of a time she put her foot down..other then making Casey come home to watch Caylee.  She really put Casey in a catch 22 relationship that was no way out of short of leaving..and I think Casey finally realized that and snapped..Caylee took the beating for Cindy.

What do you all think?


Gypsy,

I can't be on here for very long, but wanted you to know that I totally agree with you.  You put into words things I've only been able to think about and mentally question.  You are so good at putting things into words.

There's also the question as to how Sin Spin could keep a job in the medical field.  I'm on the outside looking in, but I would think she would be "nurse hell."  I wonder who all she has worked for and how long her employment has lasted.  Any monkeys out there who have experience in the medical field and can explain this?



She worked for Gentiva, a Home Health Agency, in their office.  There was no direct patient care involved.
Somehow I do not visualize Cindy doing any bedside Nursing.


Oh my.  I had to have in-home nurses after a kinda gone-wrong surgery.  They, including whomever I spoke to on the phone, were nothing short of absolutely wonderful.  Makes me wonder if SinSpin was part of the maintenance or cleaning crew.  I just can't imagine an employer allowing her to have any contact with the "outside world."  Esp. those who need medical assistance.

Cindy is most likely a chameleon just like Casey. She can turn on the sweet, caring side if it benefits her. She had to maintain her job to support the entire family.  JMO
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Monkey Junky Jr.
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« Reply #1737 on: July 01, 2009, 07:35:39 PM »

Good Evening Monkeys!

I agree with Gypsey DD's post. It was great. It does make me wonder how in the world Cindy became the nut job that she is. From the little I've seen, her mother is quite charming and I've got to believe she's wondering about who this "Cindy" is that she's seeing in the media.  I bet she horrified and embarrassed beyond words. How anyone stays in that house with her is beyond me.
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"You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out of office." unknown tea party participant
karenmamo
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« Reply #1738 on: July 01, 2009, 08:10:32 PM »

Good morning

Has anyone posted anything from BB11 in the last few days?  I tried to do a search and reading back, but am not getting anything.  Thanks for your help.


Bluesy, I get email updates from BB11, but the last two have come back set to private.  I don't know what's going on.

I have access to BB11's site, there has been no updates of the Caylee story, only Big Brother stuff.
Can someone help an ignorant Monkey out here?
What is BB11....and is there a link?
Thanks,
karen
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Gypsy DD
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« Reply #1739 on: July 01, 2009, 08:15:02 PM »

Welcome new monkeys..... and hello old monkeys

It is slow today and I am not sure this has been discussed but does anyone have any thoughts on WHAT the fibers that were recovered from the duct tape may be? I am wondering if it isn't KCs gray pant fibers.... you know the ones spindy just HAD to wash? Any thoughts?

I think it was clothing fibers from Casey's clothing caught on the tape.  Why..when they came back with the search warrant, besides numerous shoes removmed from Casey's room..many , many clothes were removed.  Unless they had fiber evidence they would not have done that. 

Personally I think that Casey made a lot of huge mistakes because this was done in a fit of agression.  She didn't figure on soil samples, nor the maggots used for a forensic milkshake, the pollen left in the debris that would help place and date the crime...and fibers..from her clothing..  She miscalculated ..duct tape picksup everything..not just fingerprints, but fibers and pollen and soil.
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"Commit a crime and the world is made of glass."
Ralph Waldo Emerson  1841
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