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Author Topic: MICHAEL JACKSON 1958 - 2009  (Read 126116 times)
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Kat_Gram
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« Reply #100 on: June 27, 2009, 05:08:15 PM »

Here is the issue I have with the first molestation case. As far as I know, there were never any charges laid. The plaintiff went to lawyers. Gloria Alred and her daughter Lisa Bloom. It was settled for 20 million dollars. Now that MJ has passed, Lisa Bloom disclosed the amount on CNN. It was previously undisclosed. I did watch some of the antics for the second trial which must have been on Nancy Grace when she first got her show. That was in 2005 ? There was no conviction. Maybe there was a settlement. 
Michael Jackson was an odd person. If there was any substance to some of the things that were said about him, why no criminal conviction ? Ever.
..
My belief is that some of these parents who let their children be around Michael Jackson and THEN cried foul let their children be with Michael for the specific reason to extort money from him.
..
I am not saying whether he did what was alleged or not. I am trying to make a point about how I felt about the first lawsuit and what the motivation was for some of the other things that have been said.
..
He is dead and away from our world where there was so much torment for him. No one can go after him now for any of that stuff. They can go after his estate for unpaid bills and financial claims, but nothing criminal to do with any sort of allegations.   
..
I realize that there is the persona as an entertainer and what he really was.
I don't know what he really was and it is not much of a concern to me as I had no contact with him.
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no rose colored glasses
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Zoe you will always be in my heart and soul


« Reply #101 on: June 27, 2009, 05:13:16 PM »

I cannot comprehend that acknowledging any self-motivating contribution that Michael Jackson has made to society when you stop and consider the child victim of a pedophile.

A young man who began attending our church in his teens ... is forced to live the rest of his life with the devastating emotional effects of sexual abuse that occurred at the hand of a trusted family friend.  The nightmare is ongoing and negatively affects every aspect of his life in regards to trusting relationships.

At the time of the Michael Jackson trial ... when it was revealed that 24 million had already been paid out in out-of-court settlements to past child accusers ... when it was revealed on American television from Michael Jackson's own lips while holding the hand of his accuser that he felt it was beautiful to share his bed with children that were not his own ... this young member of our congregation ... angerly threw out every Michael Jackson album he had accumulated and ... so did his circle of friend who empathized.  They all made a pledge ... in the name of child sexually abuse ... they would never again listen to Michael Jackson's music.

IMO

Sincerely, Janet

I could not argue at all with you. I realize the contribution he made in music, but quite honestly I have never gotten past these accusations, and his behavior. Sick to me, and I will leave it at that.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #102 on: June 27, 2009, 05:17:44 PM »

Here is the issue I have with the first molestation case. As far as I know, there were never any charges laid. The plaintiff went to lawyers. Gloria Alred and her daughter Lisa Bloom. It was settled for 20 million dollars. Now that MJ has passed, Lisa Bloom disclosed the amount on CNN. It was previously undisclosed. I did watch some of the antics for the second trial which must have been on Nancy Grace when she first got her show. That was in 2005 ? There was no conviction. Maybe there was a settlement. 
Michael Jackson was an odd person. If there was any substance to some of the things that were said about him, why no criminal conviction ? Ever.
..
My belief is that some of these parents who let their children be around Michael Jackson and THEN cried foul let their children be with Michael for the specific reason to extort money from him.
..
I am not saying whether he did what was alleged or not. I am trying to make a point about how I felt about the first lawsuit and what the motivation was for some of the other things that have been said.
..
He is dead and away from our world where there was so much torment for him. No one can go after him now for any of that stuff. They can go after his estate for unpaid bills and financial claims, but nothing criminal to do with any sort of allegations.   
..
I realize that there is the persona as an entertainer and what he really was.
I don't know what he really was and it is not much of a concern to me as I had no contact with him.

Kat

I agree with one aspect of your post.  I believe the mothers of these young accusers sacrificed their children on the altar of Michael Jackson and ... I believe that their motivations were self-serving from many aspects.

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #103 on: June 27, 2009, 05:27:03 PM »

Think about it.

Is there one poster on this forum ... whether or not there had been an acquittal ... who would have thought it a “beautiful thing” for his/her young nephew, son, grandson to have slept in the same bed as Michael Jackson?

Is there one poster on this forum ... whether or not there had been an acquittal ... who would be lifing Michael Jackson up onto a pedestal if his/her nephew, son or grandson made an accusation of sexual abuse and … had was right on as far as identifying specifics in regards to his genitals?

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
no rose colored glasses
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Zoe you will always be in my heart and soul


« Reply #104 on: June 27, 2009, 05:37:39 PM »

Think about it.

Is there one poster on this forum ... whether or not there had been an acquittal ... who would have thought it a “beautiful thing” for his/her young nephew, son, grandson to have slept in the same bed as Michael Jackson?

Is there one poster on this forum ... whether or not there had been an acquittal ... who would be lifing Michael Jackson up onto a pedestal if his/her nephew, son or grandson made an accusation of sexual abuse and … had was right on as far as identifying specifics in regards to his genitals?

Janet

I found it all very upsetting then, and I find it all very upsetting now. If I had a young son, I can assure he would not be near him. And I don't care what excuses his lawyers and people who knew him made up for him, I just don't care.
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no rose colored glasses
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Zoe you will always be in my heart and soul


« Reply #105 on: June 27, 2009, 05:43:09 PM »

Moving Van Spotted at Jackson's Home
Posted Jun 27th 2009 4:48PM by TMZ Staff

A moving van was seen leaving the home of Michael Jackson this afternoon after, we're told, his father Joe ordered Michael's belongings removed from the home and put in a storage facility.

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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #106 on: June 27, 2009, 06:36:30 PM »

Moving Van Spotted at Jackson's Home
Posted Jun 27th 2009 4:48PM by TMZ Staff

A moving van was seen leaving the home of Michael Jackson this afternoon after, we're told, his father Joe ordered Michael's belongings removed from the home and put in a storage facility.



Could the quick removal of Michael Jackson's belongings during the grieving process be considered "damage control"?

Janet

+++++++

Jackson jury sees
nude boy images
Books were seized in
1993 raid on Neverland


Jurors were shown the covers of the two books during questioning of Los Angeles police Detective Rosibel Smith, who found the books in a locked filing cabinet in Jackson’s master bedroom.

One book, called “Boys Will Be Boys,” featured an image of fair-haired boys in swimsuits jumping into water.

The book contained an inscription written by Jackson: “Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys’ faces, this is the spirit of boyhood, a life I’ve never had and will always dream of. This is the life I want for my children.”

The jury also was shown the cover of a book called “The Boy: A Photographic Essay.” It also contained an inscription that said: “To Michael from your (heart symbol) fan, XXXOOO, ’Rhonda.”’ The note was dated 1983.

Smith said both books featured boys “playing, swimming, jumping.”

Prosecutor Ron Zonen said earlier that one book was about 90 percent pictures of nude boys and the other about 10 percent

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7681758/
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
no rose colored glasses
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Zoe you will always be in my heart and soul


« Reply #107 on: June 27, 2009, 06:38:53 PM »

Moving Van Spotted at Jackson's Home
Posted Jun 27th 2009 4:48PM by TMZ Staff

A moving van was seen leaving the home of Michael Jackson this afternoon after, we're told, his father Joe ordered Michael's belongings removed from the home and put in a storage facility.



Could the quick removal of Michael Jackson's belongings during the grieving process be considered "damage control"?

Janet

+++++++

Jackson jury sees
nude boy images
Books were seized in
1993 raid on Neverland


Jurors were shown the covers of the two books during questioning of Los Angeles police Detective Rosibel Smith, who found the books in a locked filing cabinet in Jackson’s master bedroom.

One book, called “Boys Will Be Boys,” featured an image of fair-haired boys in swimsuits jumping into water.

The book contained an inscription written by Jackson: “Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys’ faces, this is the spirit of boyhood, a life I’ve never had and will always dream of. This is the life I want for my children.”

The jury also was shown the cover of a book called “The Boy: A Photographic Essay.” It also contained an inscription that said: “To Michael from your (heart symbol) fan, XXXOOO, ’Rhonda.”’ The note was dated 1983.

Smith said both books featured boys “playing, swimming, jumping.”

Prosecutor Ron Zonen said earlier that one book was about 90 percent pictures of nude boys and the other about 10 percent

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7681758/
Damage control would be my guess. It is hard to imagine the LAPD would be done with the house so fast.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #108 on: June 27, 2009, 06:51:30 PM »

Moving Van Spotted at Jackson's Home
Posted Jun 27th 2009 4:48PM by TMZ Staff

A moving van was seen leaving the home of Michael Jackson this afternoon after, we're told, his father Joe ordered Michael's belongings removed from the home and put in a storage facility.



Could the quick removal of Michael Jackson's belongings during the grieving process be considered "damage control"?

Janet

+++++++

Jackson jury sees
nude boy images
Books were seized in
1993 raid on Neverland


Jurors were shown the covers of the two books during questioning of Los Angeles police Detective Rosibel Smith, who found the books in a locked filing cabinet in Jackson’s master bedroom.

One book, called “Boys Will Be Boys,” featured an image of fair-haired boys in swimsuits jumping into water.

The book contained an inscription written by Jackson: “Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys’ faces, this is the spirit of boyhood, a life I’ve never had and will always dream of. This is the life I want for my children.”

The jury also was shown the cover of a book called “The Boy: A Photographic Essay.” It also contained an inscription that said: “To Michael from your (heart symbol) fan, XXXOOO, ’Rhonda.”’ The note was dated 1983.

Smith said both books featured boys “playing, swimming, jumping.”

Prosecutor Ron Zonen said earlier that one book was about 90 percent pictures of nude boys and the other about 10 percent

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7681758/
Damage control would be my guess. It is hard to imagine the LAPD would be done with the house so fast.

I agree.

 

I believe that the high profile attorneys retained by the Jacksons can be very intimidating to local law enforcement from a legal perspective.  The implications of wrong decisions that could be legally challenged could be very far reaching.

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Kat_Gram
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« Reply #109 on: June 27, 2009, 07:14:58 PM »

The property was RENTED. He was rehearsing in LA and rented the property as it was close to the Staples Centre.
Michael Jackson's belongings were in there.
His next of kin are protecting those belongings. The belongings were are going into storage.
..
I just read on TMZ that the accuser, Evan Chandler has now recanted. Of course there is no source. lol
..
I am against pedophiles. I am also against all of the other nonsense that went on for and against Michael Jackson during that trial. He was weird
and seemed to be a different species.

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no rose colored glasses
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Zoe you will always be in my heart and soul


« Reply #110 on: June 27, 2009, 07:21:11 PM »

The property was RENTED. He was rehearsing in LA and rented the property as it was close to the Staples Centre.
Michael Jackson's belongings were in there.
His next of kin are protecting those belongings. The belongings were are going into storage.
..
I just read on TMZ that the accuser, Evan Chandler has now recanted. Of course there is no source. lol
..
I am against pedophiles. I am also against all of the other nonsense that went on for and against Michael Jackson during that trial. He was weird
and seemed to be a different species.


I'm just trying to find if the LAPD is done with the house. It is hard to imagine they are, but they must be. Wherever these belongings are going, there better be a lot of security at the storage facility. 
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Kat_Gram
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« Reply #111 on: June 27, 2009, 07:33:32 PM »

I am not trying to stir the pot, although I am. So I am going to knock it off shortly.
I do not trust the LAPD. Or any " evidence " they produced in prior circuses.
As for what he did for humanity, he entertained people. That was his job.
He also got entertainers together and did the We Are The World and raised millions for charity.
..
My SIL, being silly wanted to know if " Bubbles"  was going to go to the funeral. Picture that one ! I almost expect CNN to go to where Bubbles lives and check it out !

 
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Cappuccino
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« Reply #112 on: June 27, 2009, 07:55:59 PM »

To respond as a poster to questions posed to those that want to weigh in:

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, negative ones towards his guilt or innocence of pedophilia the key word "alleged" keeps getting omitted.  As a child advocate myself, while I grapple with whether any of the accusations against him were true (he was found not guilty) the fact remains that the people that brought these charges also had self-motivated reasons which were proven, not to mention a mother making a claim was found guilty of welfare fraud.  He settled in the first case reportedly because he had the overwhelming means to do it & that is what the father was after to begin with (again proven), MJ wanted it to go away.   Would I have allowed my children to stay at Neverland under a cloud of suspicion, absolutely not.  Do I think he had poor judgment as to what he felt was okay to do regarding  children without scrutiny, absolutely but what I cannot say in all fairness is that he is indeed guilty of actually assaulting children.  Is there a chance he did, of course but that doesnt make it fact.  Do I admire his incomparable talent, definitely.  Do I agree with, condone or understand his lifestyle, no.  Do I know people that were sexually abused by a ped, you bet I have - for that matter I had my own experience with my step father & saw many cases of it working as a CASA volunteer, however I separate those issues of factuality from what I cannot say for certain transpired JMO

He is being paid homage for his vast & record breaking contributions in the music industry, his death has questionable aspects to it that may turn criminal, he has 3 minor children that are heirs to his estate & had a mother that did not fight to be in their lives but took money instead.  His contributions to 39 charities & other acts of kindness cannot be ignored either, they were very generous & again of vast proportion (like this local story out of the Orlando area http://www.wftv.com/news/19872685/detail.html ).   Was he tormented from being abused himself, yes.  Was he an odd man with eccentricities we will never understand, of course.   Was he taken advantage of by many & a target due to his wealth, that answer is obviously yes.  No one in the media or that I have seen is calling him a hero (well minus his most fanatic fans that is), the coverage is both complimentary & critical but it is indeed a worldwide story due to his persona, music & lifestyle that reached around the world like no other artist before him or ever will again. 
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Cappuccino
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« Reply #113 on: June 27, 2009, 07:58:55 PM »

The property was RENTED. He was rehearsing in LA and rented the property as it was close to the Staples Centre.
Michael Jackson's belongings were in there.
His next of kin are protecting those belongings. The belongings were are going into storage.
..
I just read on TMZ that the accuser, Evan Chandler has now recanted. Of course there is no source. lol
..
I am against pedophiles. I am also against all of the other nonsense that went on for and against Michael Jackson during that trial. He was weird
and seemed to be a different species.


I'm just trying to find if the LAPD is done with the house. It is hard to imagine they are, but they must be. Wherever these belongings are going, there better be a lot of security at the storage facility. 

Evidently they released it or it would have been sealed off.  LAPD was with the family yesterday late afternoon, so I would imagine they were asked when the family could go in and get his personal belongings.  Reportedly LAPD has finally had a chance to talk to the doctor with his newly hired attorney (hmmm) and are looking for another doctor they would like to talk to as well.
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no rose colored glasses
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Zoe you will always be in my heart and soul


« Reply #114 on: June 27, 2009, 08:13:27 PM »

I am not trying to stir the pot, although I am. So I am going to knock it off shortly.
I do not trust the LAPD. Or any " evidence " they produced in prior circuses.
As for what he did for humanity, he entertained people. That was his job.
He also got entertainers together and did the We Are The World and raised millions for charity.
..
My SIL, being silly wanted to know if " Bubbles"  was going to go to the funeral. Picture that one ! I almost expect CNN to go to where Bubbles lives and check it out !

 
Well I know I don't trust the LAPD, and I believe Bubbles now resides in Florida, I just read that, and then I just read Bubbles is dead. So I'm not sure about Bubbles 
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no rose colored glasses
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Zoe you will always be in my heart and soul


« Reply #115 on: June 27, 2009, 08:15:08 PM »

The property was RENTED. He was rehearsing in LA and rented the property as it was close to the Staples Centre.
Michael Jackson's belongings were in there.
His next of kin are protecting those belongings. The belongings were are going into storage.
..
I just read on TMZ that the accuser, Evan Chandler has now recanted. Of course there is no source. lol
..
I am against pedophiles. I am also against all of the other nonsense that went on for and against Michael Jackson during that trial. He was weird
and seemed to be a different species.


I'm just trying to find if the LAPD is done with the house. It is hard to imagine they are, but they must be. Wherever these belongings are going, there better be a lot of security at the storage facility. 

Evidently they released it or it would have been sealed off.  LAPD was with the family yesterday late afternoon, so I would imagine they were asked when the family could go in and get his personal belongings.  Reportedly LAPD has finally had a chance to talk to the doctor with his newly hired attorney (hmmm) and are looking for another doctor they would like to talk to as well.
I'm very curious about that other doctor, the one who has the same first and last name. I'm also waiting to hear any info on the second autopsy and who performed it.
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no rose colored glasses
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Zoe you will always be in my heart and soul


« Reply #116 on: June 27, 2009, 08:17:46 PM »

Jackson Fam -- Debbie Rowe Can See Her Kids
Posted Jun 27th 2009 7:20PM by TMZ Staff

A source close to the family of Michael Jackson tells TMZ if Debbie Rowe reaches out to them, and wants to see her kids, they won't stand in the way.



However, we're told the family is holding strong in its position that the kids should stay with their grandmother Katherine.

We're told the family believes it would be "unfair" for the kids to grow up not knowing their biological mother.

(Sounds good, and I believe the three kids should stay together. And if possible the youngest son should see his mother, if the mother wants to also.) That seems fair, but time will tell.
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Cappuccino
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« Reply #117 on: June 27, 2009, 08:24:11 PM »

Jackson Fam -- Debbie Rowe Can See Her Kids
Posted Jun 27th 2009 7:20PM by TMZ Staff

A source close to the family of Michael Jackson tells TMZ if Debbie Rowe reaches out to them, and wants to see her kids, they won't stand in the way.

However, we're told the family is holding strong in its position that the kids should stay with their grandmother Katherine.

We're told the family believes it would be "unfair" for the kids to grow up not knowing their biological mother.

Just placing what is being reported, I personally wait until "a source" is identified before giving merit to it BUT if it is true coming from a grieving family I say this is more than reasonable especially considering this woman's history.  But I must say I agree with the family's position that the children should stay together as siblings & with their family, its all they've ever known & need the stability & emotional support from other family members that loved their father as they did.  Again, I feel compeled to repeat that the children really should have a guardian ad litem appointed to their best interest & well-being, someone outside of family & business minded individuals to oversee their estate as heirs.
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Cappuccino
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« Reply #118 on: June 27, 2009, 08:27:59 PM »

The property was RENTED. He was rehearsing in LA and rented the property as it was close to the Staples Centre.
Michael Jackson's belongings were in there.
His next of kin are protecting those belongings. The belongings were are going into storage.
..
I just read on TMZ that the accuser, Evan Chandler has now recanted. Of course there is no source. lol
..
I am against pedophiles. I am also against all of the other nonsense that went on for and against Michael Jackson during that trial. He was weird
and seemed to be a different species.


I'm just trying to find if the LAPD is done with the house. It is hard to imagine they are, but they must be. Wherever these belongings are going, there better be a lot of security at the storage facility. 

Evidently they released it or it would have been sealed off.  LAPD was with the family yesterday late afternoon, so I would imagine they were asked when the family could go in and get his personal belongings.  Reportedly LAPD has finally had a chance to talk to the doctor with his newly hired attorney (hmmm) and are looking for another doctor they would like to talk to as well.
I'm very curious about that other doctor, the one who has the same first and last name. I'm also waiting to hear any info on the second autopsy and who performed it.

Me too.  MJ had a long-term addiction to prescription medications but I totally question the care he was receiving by physicians and whom reportedly hired them for what self-interest reasons.  I largely question when he got an injection, how he was treated when he failed & what transpired for what I consider too long a time before the 911 call was made.

Greta is going live from LA at the top of the hour & then Geraldo (ugh) is having a special right after.
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Kat_Gram
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« Reply #119 on: June 27, 2009, 08:42:39 PM »

CNN is having a special later tonite on him. I hope it is all music.
I was practising after I came home from work. lol
I was at work today, not going out, tired.
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