Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09 #1

[MuffyBee]

Janet, we'll just have to disagree on this one, about the tracking dogs.  I think LE is keeping that information close to them.  I am suspicious about the witnesses.  Maybe in time we will know the truth. 

[Rob]

Very interesting for sure. so do you have a sense of where she is? What town? What type of car?

I wish we had access to more information such as video from the gas station.

TG - pardon my typos. I didn't feel like type with a ton of accuracy. It's a bad habit.

As I indicated the other day - Lindsey is with in one hundred and twenty miles.

Probable job descriptions are - insurance, gutter protection, home improvements, roofing, carpeting and such.

Probable vehicle - SUV with company logo, SUV individually owned with no markings or company logo, pick-up truck with equipment to hold ladders, van used for carpeting.

I don't think that the person actually stopped at the Shell station after the abductions. The intent was to stop, but saw a crime of opportunity. There is a chance that the person needed gas and stopped at a town down the road and got gas there. There is also the chance that the Shell station did grab and image of a vehicle that is unknown in the community especially at that time of night.

As for that dogs, there is some indication that the dogs go to a spot and then - nothing. Lindsey is gone. All the hallmarks of a vehicle abduction.

[doubledecker]

doubledecker - it doesn't work because the person who abducted Lindsey came off of RT 8 and returned on that exact highway. Heading toward HIS home.

As I was correct with Brooke Bennett - all the way down to the location of her body (2 miles, she was 2.1 miles) - when this all shakes out this will be a stranger abduction with the perp coming from RT 8 to get gas at the Shell station.

The timing of the abduction leaves little doubt in my mind who (profession wise) abducted Lindsey.

This of course could be a random lunatic in his mother's car, but I seriously doubt it. Mostly likely this is a person returning home from an appointment he had in the immediate area or the next few towns over.

Josh is so far down on my list - he's not even on my list. Neither is Mr. Watne. But, please feel feel to look at him and Josh as much as anyone wishes.

Interesting similarities -

Haylee - father at work.

Caylee - no known father. (mother is killer and I made that exact statement when it was totally unpopular)

Lindsay - father in another state thousands of miles away.

I could go on here - but you get the drift. Probable that the abductor does know some fact in some of these cases, but not all.

Mom are great people, but children need a mom and a dad. If you look at the stats on missing children you will see a correlation when the father is no where to be seen.

I am only going through all these theories because I try to always do that just in case, but I usually have my own ideas right off.  in this case I have a thought in the back of my mind that I just don't post about because I have nothing to back it up and I also think if I say what I really think, I might get a phone call to shut up LOL  but I never hesitate to look up everything I can find that might work for someone elses ideas.  I think that is only right.

I do believe in God given gifts and I never hesitate to listen to people who have the gift of "seeing" things about these cases.  granted I believe 99% of the people who say they have the gift are full of it, but I do full well believe some people do, so I always listen to them and what they have to say because I am no one to judge who has the real gift and who does not unless they prove time and time again they are full of it LOL    so if you have any ideas you would like me to look at feel free to run them past me.  behind the scenes I have been doing the same, however on this case things just are not coming to me as things normally do for me, so I am kind of puzzled.  what puzzles me most is the lies and diversion in this case.  I have to think gee are they telling the truth and I am way off here, or am I right on and they are lying. LOL  so I am really questionging myself.  But at the same time I am really questioning what is going out in the media etc.  for the most part I just don't believe a word of it. LOL

[Tamikosmom]

Janet, we'll just have to disagree on this one, about the tracking dogs.  I think LE is keeping that information close to them.  I am suspicious about the witnesses.  Maybe in time we will know the truth. 

I truly hope you are right and ... the silence from McCleary's LE implies that more is known than has been revealed.  As far as the media ... next to nothing on the case.

 

I am off.

Janet
4:15 PM

+++++


WITNESSES

Where is Lindsey Baum? Police, FBI Search for 10-Year-Old
Girl's Mother Frantic After Lindsey Never Made it Home From a Friend's House
June 30, 2009

Scott said witnesses were able to put Lindsey within a couple of blocks of her house just after 9:30 p.m. The last person reported to have seen her, he said, was a neighbor on her way to work.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=7966924&page=2


Focus now on abduction
BY JACOB JONES The Daily World
Thursday, July 2, 2009 12:25 PM PDT
JACOB JONES | THE DAILY WORLD

Scott said a second person came forward Tuesday with a confirmed sighting of Baum from Friday night in the same area along Maple Street near Fifth Street.

http://**/articles/2009/07/02/local_news/doc4a4cf43c1b1dd881132403.txt

[Rob]

double decker - I do not proclaim to have any kind of 'gift" - just go where the info takes me. I read the same things you do and go where that same info takes me. I never believed that this was a local and that's just the way I read it from the beginning.

As for eyewitnesses, they are the least reliable - check the FBI stats and you will see just that. I believe that the dogs found her scent and that was that. Gone. And the authorities seem to concur with no one to even consider a POI.

[Edward]

It is a very forested area..

Is there any mountain men living in the woods ?  Any loon tunes living in the woods ? Thinking like what happened with Elizabeth Smart..

LE prolly already has a list of loons in the area.. But the LE in the Elizabeth Smart case did not have that particular man on their list..

 
 

[doubledecker]

here is why I believe the dogs, well one reason why I believe them.

trailing dogs will take the freshest scent.  if lindsey and kayla came to kara's on maple that scent will be older than when they return.  if lindsey returned down maple is would be the same trail, it would still be the freshest scent and the dogs would have followed down maple.  Being the dogs went down 6th off of maple, I have to believe that is the freshest scent, therefore the dogs go that way and not follow the previous scent coming to kara's on maple.  they they get around 6th "somewhere" and poof.  so a car comes and she gets in it.  then the trail is weak? and for some reason the dogs can't pick it up????  or they did pick it up, the feds are not saying. 

then we watch where they search.  I believe the feds are also following the dog's lead.  honestly I believe the feds followed more dog scent than they are saying.  THE FRESHEST scent and this is why they are saying there is no scent because they are not worried about the older scent that day, because they have the FRESHEST scent and that is the one they are concerned with. 

now it could be this also.  she starts home going west on maple, the witnesses do see her but for some reason she turns around and goes back down 6th...again the FRESHEST scent would be down 6th so the dogs will turn there rather than on down maple.  so either way, the freshest scent is on maple and then either poof, or the feds will not tell us where it went from there.  and that is also very possible. 

now this is what I think, but I am not stuck on anything, but for now I really think this.  I have thought it from the begining, ad I still do.  now the trail might continue on or she got in a car, dogs CAN trail a car, but if it gets weak they know she is then in the car.  something caused her to go down 6th, someone coming after her, or she saw someone she did not want to see or someoe called her over there.  IF the witnessed did see her, then she turned around and took off down 6th after they saw her.   

I do believe the feds have more dog scent ad they followed that and based their searches on the dogs.  and I cant' say any more than that, so that is my personal thought, but again, I will work on any idea, I am not going to sit here ad insist I am right and everyone else is wrong haha

[Edward]

In the Elizabeth Smart case..The perp had NO car... He was a crazy loon..

But as Rob mentioned.. "All the signs of a vehicle abduction.. "
It looks like a very quiet area.. It aint new york, Never the less.

I would be looking at any vehicle on any camera available from 9:30 to 1:30 within a 50 mile radius. starting with the shell station and seeking out security cameras..
That is how far he may get with her in 1 hour..

[doubledecker]

It is a very forested area..

Is there any mountain men living in the woods ?  Any loon tunes living in the woods ? Thinking like what happened with Elizabeth Smart..

LE prolly already has a list of loons in the area.. But the LE in the Elizabeth Smart case did not have that particular man on their list..

 
 

the bear festival was to come up in a couple of weeks, some people follow these kinds of events, not sure what all events are at this one, but some of these festivals have competition for certain events and people follow those, someone could have been camped out waiting for that.  I don't know if this would be some area transients would frequent, would get mighty cold in the winter, but someone might come through in the summer and hang around.  we need "local" info

[Edward]

In the Elizabeth Smart case..The perp had NO car... He was a crazy loon..

But as Rob mentioned.. "All the signs of a vehicle abduction.. "
It looks like a very quiet area.. It aint new york, Never the less.

I would be looking at any vehicle on any camera available from 9:30 to 1:30 within a 50 mile radius. starting with the shell station and seeking out security cameras..
That is how far he may get with her in 1 hour..

Sorry.. 9:30 to 10:30 p.m. = 50 miles..

[pink angel]

There was witnesses that saw her on any other street than maple. Why is everyone talking about her going up sixth street? Just a theory?

[doubledecker]

red line is lindsey's street and it runs all around that red line on out.  there is a ton of desolate area out in behind where lindsey lives.

\
looking at the map there is highway 8 which Rob is talking about.  see how memmsen comes past lindsey's house all the way through to 8 almost.  see how if you went through all of that area you could end up out on highway 8.  that is somethig else to consider. 

[pink angel]

wasn't.

[doubledecker]

There was witnesses that saw her on any other street than maple. Why is everyone talking about her going up sixth street? Just a theory?

all this is just working on theories, we are out of facts hahaha.  I am stuck on the dogs going down 6th.  I believe it is true. but for all of those who don't believe that I am fine with that and will work on any other theory also.  I also believe she could have got to her house or by there in a car.  but I do believe she initially went down 6th and then the feds will not say anymore. 

[pink angel]

Nevaeh's case, the dogs found nothing. Sandra's case, the dogs found nothing. Both were taken somewhere else by car.

I think someone either lured her in a car or snatched her within blocks from her house. 


jmo

[pink angel]

There was witnesses that saw her on any other street than maple. Why is everyone talking about her going up sixth street? Just a theory?

all this is just working on theories, we are out of facts hahaha.  I am stuck on the dogs going down 6th.  I believe it is true. but for all of those who don't believe that I am fine with that and will work on any other theory also.  I also believe she could have got to her house or by there in a car.  but I do believe she initially went down 6th and then the feds will not say anymore. 

Thanks.

There has been no verification by LE that dogs found scent anywhere and no verification by LE that she "went up sixth street".

I just didn't want someone jumping into the case who hasn't been following it from the beginning, to take theory as known facts.

[Tamikosmom]

There was witnesses that saw her on any other street than maple. Why is everyone talking about her going up sixth street? Just a theory?

pink angel ... according to Kara ... private tracking dogs picked up Lindsey's scent on 6th Street.

There are two problems that I have with the theory that Lindsey took an alternate route.

1.  Lindsey did not fly to 6th Street.  Why did tracking dogs not pick up her scent between the Kampen/William's residence and Sixth Street?

2.  If the witness accounts are correct and ... the observations were at Maple and 5th Street ... the implication would be that Lindsey had already walked passed 6th Street on her walk home.

Janet
 

KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #350 on: July 01, 2009, 05:25:22 PM »

For some of the other posters regarding the camera's and Lindsey's route: From a possible witness on the night that Lindsey disappeared she did not take her regular route home. If that is true she would not have had to come through an area where she would have been picked up on those camera's. Instead she would have been headed up 6th street hill into a strictly residential area where there are no businesses which would be consistent with the original trail said to have been picked up by the dogs.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg860401#msg860401


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1013 on: July 04, 2009, 10:27:20 PM »

I do want to let you know I just had a visitor that Lindsey's family hired - an independent tracker renowned for helping where others have failed

http://www.k9sardog.com/harryoakes.html

and he says he picked up a scent nearly the same as I was told before. He cut his usual fee and is currently trying to track using his trained dogs. Pray he finds something that the others have missed!!!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg864394#msg864394


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1162 on: Today at 06:45:55 PM »

If someone is interested in giving it a shot they could try calling Harry Oakes and see if he can tell you specifically if he tracked the scent straight down Maple or up 6th - I don't know the exact details of his search but that way you would have the information directly without it coming through me... Just a thought. I imagine you could tell him you are trying to put together maps and such. Not sure if he'd share the info or not...

International K-9 Search & Rescue Services
c/o Harry E. Oakes, Jr.
P.O. Box #1472
Longview, Washington 98632 USA

Oregon phone: 503-705-0258
Outside Oregon phone and fax: 360-414-8093

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.new#new

[pink angel]

There was witnesses that saw her on any other street than maple. Why is everyone talking about her going up sixth street? Just a theory?

pink angel ... according to Kara ... private tracking dogs picked up Lindsey's scent on 6th Street.

There are two problems that I have with the theory that Lindsey took an alternate route.

1.  Lindsey did not fly to 6th Street.  Why did tracking dogs not pick up her scent between the Kampen/William's residence and Sixth Street?

2.  If the witness accounts are correct and ... the observations were at Maple and 5th Street ... the implication would be that Lindsey had already walked passed 6th Street on her walk home.

Janet
 

KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #350 on: July 01, 2009, 05:25:22 PM »

For some of the other posters regarding the camera's and Lindsey's route: From a possible witness on the night that Lindsey disappeared she did not take her regular route home. If that is true she would not have had to come through an area where she would have been picked up on those camera's. Instead she would have been headed up 6th street hill into a strictly residential area where there are no businesses which would be consistent with the original trail said to have been picked up by the dogs.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg860401#msg860401


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1013 on: July 04, 2009, 10:27:20 PM »

I do want to let you know I just had a visitor that Lindsey's family hired - an independent tracker renowned for helping where others have failed

http://www.k9sardog.com/harryoakes.html

and he says he picked up a scent nearly the same as I was told before. He cut his usual fee and is currently trying to track using his trained dogs. Pray he finds something that the others have missed!!!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg864394#msg864394


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1162 on: Today at 06:45:55 PM »

If someone is interested in giving it a shot they could try calling Harry Oakes and see if he can tell you specifically if he tracked the scent straight down Maple or up 6th - I don't know the exact details of his search but that way you would have the information directly without it coming through me... Just a thought. I imagine you could tell him you are trying to put together maps and such. Not sure if he'd share the info or not...

International K-9 Search & Rescue Services
c/o Harry E. Oakes, Jr.
P.O. Box #1472
Longview, Washington 98632 USA

Oregon phone: 503-705-0258
Outside Oregon phone and fax: 360-414-8093

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.new#new

Sandra and Nevaeh didn't fly away either, yet were not picked up by dogs.

Dogs can track and scent good in the woods, where you are touching stuff, sweating,  moving branches with your hands, stumbling, touching trees as you pass, sitting down to rest. etc.....

I can see dogs not tracking and scenting someone who was walking down an asphalt road, after just freshly showering and the only thing touching the asphalt was her shoes. Especially on a decent traveled road and car exhuast being taken into play.

jmo

[KarmaRoundUp]

guess I will give my personal opinion on the josh theory etc.  and I will just post whatever I am thinking here, and reserve the right to change my mind if someone brings up something I don't think of.

josh is not driving a car, so if he did something to lindsey someone has to be helping him OR he talked her into going with him to some very secluded place no one can find. 

if they fight all the time and she likes to dig her fingernails into him, wouldn't the police notice there are huge gouge marks on him?  if he hit her in the back of the head and knocked her unconscious so she can't fight, he would have to carry her somewhere, again he would need help to get her so far away no one is finding her.
I really think if josh did something to her, they would have found her.  UNLESS someone helped him.

or she is someplace where he left her and they just did not look there, some old building etc.  so did they miss searching places?

Yes it seems they did miss at least 4 apartments(empty)at the BeeHive per someone at WS or HFTM who lives near McCleary and went there to take pictures.So I'm now thinking that they really didn't search every place/empty building in town.

[pink angel]

Child rape, child porn charges brought
BY JACOB JONES
The Daily World
Wednesday, July 8, 2009 12:09 PM PDT
Print Version | E-mail This Story
*

A 34-year-old Elma man faces child rape and pornography possession charges after his young daughter told her family he touched her inappropriately.

Court records stated the girl told counselors and investigators late last year that her father had been touching her since preschool.

The father, who is not being named to protect the identity of his daughter, has been charged with first-degree child rape, which refers to children younger than 12. He also faces charges for possession of depictions of minors engaged in sexually explicit conduct.

Family members learned of the abuse last summer when the girl mentioned the touching in passing, court records stated. The family took the girl to a counselor, who told them to call authorities.

Court records stated that during multiple interviews with investigators, the girl said her father touched her under her clothing, made her perform oral sex and touched her in other inappropriate ways.

“As the interview continued,” court records stated, “(the girl) also told the interviewer the defendant told her not to tell anyone about the touching.”

Search of computers

Investigators also searched the man’s Elma home and computers, according to court records. They found pornographic photos of children and explicit e-mails.



“Numerous images were discovered that depict minor children in sexually explicit situations,” court records stated, including photos from sites such as “Magic Lolita” and “Ukrainian Nymphets.”

Court records stated the photos included adults having sex with young girls and infants. In several e-mails from the man, he described himself as a “pedo” with involvement with online pedophile groups.

The man was arrested late last month and is being held in Grays Harbor County Jail in lieu of $100,000 bail.
http://**/articles/2009/07/08/local_news/doc4a54eb719d086799765141.txt