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Author Topic: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09 #1  (Read 573540 times)
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #820 on: July 03, 2009, 10:04:26 PM »



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« Reply #821 on: July 03, 2009, 10:04:59 PM »

if someone from out of town grabbed lindsey you would think they would have hit that highway and kept on going. 

if she really did go up 6th and out to the creek, someone in that tiny little town has her. 
but then if she did really go up 6th then how did the people who saw her elsewhere see her? 

why would the dogs not hit on her trail, yet Kara said originally they hit going up the hill on 6th.  which way is up the hill?  north or south?  guess I can get on a topo map and look at the elevation ugh. LOL

I had asked Kara, where do kids hang out, she said they use to hang out at the creek behind simpsons.  that is the other way that is north of maple.  so that must be a different creek?

funny/weird if someone from the town is responsible, yet there are no "creepy" people in town.  you would think kids or someone would know if there is a "creepy" person in town.  yet if no one ever mentions one, then why did someone local get weird out of the blue for the first time?  makes no sense.  so where did the weirdo come from?

maybe someone new moved to town.  they should check out any new people who moved in.  that might explain why there is some whackjob among them they never noticed before.

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« Reply #822 on: July 03, 2009, 10:05:01 PM »

Tracygirl...i think this is the article you were looking for regarding her reason for moving to Washington from Arizona.

"You can't imagine the guilt"
By Callie White
The Daily World
Friday, July 3, 2009 11:12 AM PDT
MACLEOD PAPPIDAS | THE DAILY WORLD

Friend's mother replays the night as a small town reels
*

McCLEARY — Kara Kampen said she thought nothing of it when Lindsey Baum walked out of her house at about 9:15 p.m. last Friday. Little McCleary was such a homey place, such a safe place, that the idea that anything could happen to her was completely ridiculous.

But Lindsey, 10, never made it back from Kampen’s home on Maple Street. Somewhere along the four blocks home, she vanished.

And with her, so went the small town’s sense of security.

“I don’t let my kids walk around outside anymore in the evening,” Kampen said. Only in the daytime, and never alone.

Kampen said this as she sold cupcakes across the street from Beerbower Park, raising money to help the Baum family.

“I couldn’t not do something,” she said. “They need the help. It’s hard to go to work when the police are telling you to stay at home all day.”

Kampen said she draws strength from Melissa Baum, Lindsey’s mother.

“She’s so hopeful, it’s an inspiration to me,” Kampen said. “Because of her, I truly believe Lindsey is alive, and just waiting to be found.”



Kampen moved to town in January from Arizona, and practically from the moment her daughter Michaela met Lindsey, they were fast friends. Brassy, sassy girls with big senses of humor, the two were practically “attached at the hip,” Kampen said.

In Arizona, no one let their kids outdoors, Kampen said. There was too much bad news. It was one of the reasons she moved to McCleary, for its wholesome atmosphere. It was a place where kids could be kids, she said.
“You just don’t see kids out here anymore, when it’s still bright,” Kampen said. “You see some of the older ones, or a few on bikes, but it’s not at all like it used to be.

“It definitely doesn’t have the same feeling,” she said of the small town, population 1,500.

While McClearyites are grieving over the loss of Lindsey Baum, they still hold out hope that she will return. But the sense of ease and trust that pervaded the small town is now shot, neighbors say.

“Children used to walk around town all the time,” said Julie Colbert, a lifelong McCleary resident out handing fliers to passing drivers in a bright yellow shirt with Lindsey Baum’s image on it.

Colbert pointed to Beerbower Park. On a brilliant, sunny day, with its field and playground, the few who were there were all adults.

“Look at the park, it’s empty! It was never empty like that before,” Colbert said, on the verge of tears. “It would be full. So would the sidewalks, with kids all getting together.”

What makes Baum’s disappearance even worse for McCleary residents is the speculation that she was abducted by someone she knew. No one heard her cry out, nor is there any physical evidence, like a dropped shoe, to show that she struggled, they say.

“I can’t believe something like this happened in a small town like this,” said Tim Kuhn, who lives in McCleary and has roots in the small town. “This has changed everything about the town.”

Kuhn said he hadn’t seen such a change in the town since the Bassett murders. In August of 1995, Brian Bassett was convicted of murdering his mother, father and little brother and sentenced to three life terms. He was 16 at the time of the murders. A then-17-year-old friend who participated in the killings, Nicholaus McDonald, was convicted on two murder counts.

Those murders shook the community, Kuhn said, but did not rob it of its sense of neighborliness in nearly the same way.

Kampen said there are still the vestiges of the old community she knew. She went to the candlelight vigil at Beerbower Park on Tuesday night.

“I was really, really surprised. I expected to just see some people in the field, and there were hundreds,” Kampen said.

Undersheriff Rick Scott of the Grays Harbor Sheriffs Office said not every last drop of community spirit had dropped off. Local restaurants were sending food to searchers, and the Beehive, a retirement community, had cooked and delivered a big dinner to the McCleary Police Department. Plus, he added, there were tons of volunteers helping to look for the little girl.

“We appreciate the help a lot,” Scott said.

Finding Baum has been complicated by a complete lack of physical evidence, Scott said.

“It’s like she vanished into thin air,” he said. “Gone without a trace.”

Interviews with neighbors have turned up few leads, he added, and although Baum’s computer has been sent in for forensic testing, there is no guarantee that it will give detectives any information to help them find her.

Scott said law enforcement will step up its search to find her Friday night, blanketing the small town to ask drivers, who may have been driving the route Lindsey Baum walked as part of their weekly routine, if they saw anything.

“We only get this opportunity once a week,” Scott said.

The Fourth of July holiday will force the Sheriff’s Office to spread out, though.

“We’ve got half the state at the beach,” Scott said.

In the meantime, the information vacuum has given rise to rumors, spread both by word of mouth and the Internet, and Scott asked that anyone who hears anything check their sources before spreading it around.

“It’s rough on the family to get some of the phone calls they’ve been getting,” Scott said.

Indeed, Kampen agreed that everyone who was with Lindsey the night she disappeared has already been through enough that they don’t need false information or criticism. Calling herself a glutton for punishment, Kampen has been on the Internet, in the chat rooms, where she said she has read plenty of jeremiads about her and her friends’ parenting skills.

Anything other people say, Kampen said, she and Melissa Baum have already felt.

“You can’t imagine the guilt,” Kampen said.

Kampen said she has replayed that Friday evening in her head over and over. So has her daughter, Michaela, 10, who spent the day swimming with Lindsey. They walked together with Josh Baum, 13, to the Kampen house. But halfway there, Michaela said they teased Josh, getting under his skin enough so he turned around and couldn’t walk back with Lindsey. That’s something he now regrets deeply, Kampen said.

“People are saying, ‘How could they let that girl walk by herself?’ ” Kampen said. “It was still bright out. And this isn’t a dangerous place. This is McCleary.”

Kampen sighed.
http://**/articles/2009/07/03/local_news/doc4a4e415cdb51d302573546.txt
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« Reply #823 on: July 03, 2009, 10:07:00 PM »

By the way,  it depends on where in AZ.  In my neighborhood the kids are out playing all day long when they can be out without dying from the sun and temps, but during most of the year they are playing outside and in the adjoining park 3 houses down from me. 
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« Reply #824 on: July 03, 2009, 10:08:56 PM »

one thing that is weird to me though.  IF the dogs trailed her up 6th, and that is the way to the creek(the parcel is listed with a 6th street address) then why in the world if it is almost dark, would Lindsey be heading to the creek. 

if they searched that property 6 times, why?  did the dogs actually trail her to that creek? 

I don't know, but this is really bothering me
Me too, something is way off here. And Janet the article and sentence you bumped, that sentence is very troubling to me, the first time I read that.

There has been nothing official about the dogs getting any scent. Or her walking up 6th street. That information has come from Kara only.


From today's article:
Scott said bloodhounds traced the route Lindsey took early on from the friend’s house to her own home, but didn’t find any scent. And in places where Lindsey once played — parks and by the creek — Lindsey’s scent has been vanishing.

The loss of scent could be a combination of factors — the heat on the sidewalk could have dissipated it for instance, he said.
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« Reply #825 on: July 03, 2009, 10:09:04 PM »



Credit: pink angel

She is just adorable.  This breaks my heart.  She looks so happy.
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« Reply #826 on: July 03, 2009, 10:10:28 PM »

question about dogs...do dogs pick up the scent of only a person if they are alive? (sorry, had to ask)

What about water, do dogs pick up a sent in water? Does a creak run from one end to another that she could have been walking through?
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« Reply #827 on: July 03, 2009, 10:10:41 PM »

I believe that Lindsey's scene should have been picked up by the dogs where the witness claimed they saw her on Friday evening.  It does not make sense.

Janet

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NANCY GRACE
Aired July 1, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET


GRACE: Right. To Mike Brooks, something`s not right because if a child was actually on that street, a tracker dog would have picked up her scent.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: No, Nancy, you`re absolutely right. The bloodhounds would have picked up a scent and it would have gone so far as to where she went and maybe gotten into a car but, no, there`s no scent whatsoever.

You know we`ve talked about scent evidence before. It can be around for almost a month ...

GRACE: Are they absolutely certainly -- back out to Steve Friederich with "The Daily World" joining us from Aberdeen. Are they absolutely certain about the date and the time the neighbor that spotted her, about the date and the time she spotted the little girl?

FRIEDERICH: You know, I asked about that. And the sheriff seems to say yes. I mean, the neighbor knew the child and the neighbor knew the brother. That the neighbor had actually stopped a fight between the two of them, like, shortly beforehand. And the neighbor was on the way to work. She`s a public employee, works for a nearby county.

GRACE: So that`s pretty much confirmed yet the tracking dog is not picking up a scent whatsoever/

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/01/ng.01.html

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« Reply #828 on: July 03, 2009, 10:15:28 PM »

question about dogs...do dogs pick up the scent of only a person if they are alive? (sorry, had to ask)

What about water, do dogs pick up a sent in water? Does a creak run from one end to another that she could have been walking through?

2 different kinds of dogs. Scent dogs look for live people. Scent changes after death which is why they use cadaver dogs.


And like I posted above LE has never confirmed that the dogs picked up Lindsey's scent. In fact they stated just the opposite.
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« Reply #829 on: July 03, 2009, 10:17:17 PM »

Thanks but I am looking for the article that explains why Lindsey, her mother and brother moved from LA to Washington after the divorce. It was something about knowing someone in town who she grew up with but had lost track of then found again, then this person told her about the town... I want to know who the person was she knew all of those years ago and asked her to move to WA. I have looked and looked. I think there maybe some information there
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« Reply #830 on: July 03, 2009, 10:19:40 PM »

 Not all SAR dogs perform the same type of search. Some dogs are tracking (or trailing) dogs, and others are air-scent (or area-search) dogs. The types overlap, but the distinction between the two guides are the training process and how the dog participates in missions. Tracking dogs work with their nose to the ground. They follow a trail of human scent -- typically heavy skin particles that fall quickly to the ground or onto bushes -- through any type of terrain. These dogs are not searching, they're following: Tracking dogs need a "last seen" starting point, an article with the person's scent on it to work from and an uncontaminated trail.


Photo courtesy CCSAR
Tracking dogs are most useful in wilderness searches.

For tracking, time is an issue. If a child disappears from a school playground or a inmate escapes from a prison, a tracking dog might be called in to follow the person's scent immediately after the disappearance, before other search groups and law-enforcement personnel contaminate the scent trail.

Air-scent dogs, on the other hand, work with their nose in the air. They pick up human scent anywhere in the vicinity -- they don't need a "last seen" starting point, an article to work from or a scent trail, and time is not an issue. Whereas tracking dogs follow a particular scent trail, air-scent dogs pick up a scent carried in air currents and seek out its origin -- the point of greatest concentration.


Photo courtesy CCSAR
Air-scent dogs pick up human scent carried in air currents.

Air-scent dogs might be called in to find a missing hiker located "somewhere in a national park," an avalanche victim beneath 15 feet of snow or people buried under a collapsed building. Air-scenters might specialize in a particular type of search, such as:

    * Cadaver - Dogs specifically search for the scent of human remains, detecting the smell of human decomposition gasses in addition to skin rafts. Cadaver dogs can find something as small as a human tooth or a single drop of blood.

    * Water - Dogs search for drowning victims by boat. When a body is under water, skin particles and gases rise to the surface, so dogs can smell a body even when it's completely immersed. Due to the movement of water currents, dogs can seldom pinpoint the exact location of the body. Typically, more than one SAR team searches the area of interest, and divers use each dog's alert point, along with water-current analysis, to estimate the most likely location of the body.
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« Reply #831 on: July 03, 2009, 10:19:45 PM »

Does anyone have the artice handy which Lindseys mom explains why she moves to WA? It is here somewhere but I cannot find it and need it for something I am trying to get at.

Edit typo per tracygirl.  MB

http://**/articles/2009/07/03/local_news/doc4a4e415cdb51d302573546.txt
Thanks Deenie for your efforts, I am actually looking for the article which states why Lindsey's mom moved from LA to WA
TG I didnt know that there was another article.
just does not make sense to me .. that you can move Jan 09 - to another city - and find love and feel confident as a family ..to entrust your entire life to a man.
I understand that some people will do anything to find comfort, love, support and jump into a relationship. Esp single Moms when they are struggling. My last relationship * we never lived together* was of 3 yrs and I can say even today..I still don't him, not really- we broke up a year ago. Does that make sense?
 
I guess I rather be poor and know my daughter was safe ..than to jump into the unknown.
I am a single mom and I always would wait at least 6mos ..for the guy I was dating to meet her/my Daughter. If he lasted that long. Not throwing Stones at anyone .. Just my opinion only.


“We’ve got half the state at the beach,” Scott said.


What beach?  The ocean?

I see a lot about the shower.  This was not a morning shower/bath.  She may have simply rinsed off and put her clothes on.  That is what I would have done at ten with a friend waiting.

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« Reply #832 on: July 03, 2009, 10:20:48 PM »

Thanks but I am looking for the article that explains why Lindsey, her mother and brother moved from LA to Washington after the divorce. It was something about knowing someone in town who she grew up with but had lost track of then found again, then this person told her about the town... I want to know who the person was she knew all of those years ago and asked her to move to WA. I have looked and looked. I think there maybe some information there

Oh, her name is Michelle. I remember that. I don't remember her last name.
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« Reply #833 on: July 03, 2009, 10:22:22 PM »

dogs also pick up the "freshest" scent.  so say someone is going down the street and doubles back, the dog will know where they were last.  if a person is headed in one direction, passes a intersection, going straight, doubles back to the intersection, the down the other street, the dog will know where that person went last.

or if the person made several trips a couple of days apart, the dog will know which way the person went most recently. 

so....
hmm  just makes no sense
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« Reply #834 on: July 03, 2009, 10:23:32 PM »

The tracking dogs were used the day following Lindseys disappearance.  I believe her scent should have been detected.  According to a July 2, 2009 article nothing has changed.

Lindsey's disappearance is creating more questions than answers as each day passes.

 

Janet

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BLOODHOUNDS

FBI joins search for missing 10-year-old girl
Story Published: Jun 28, 2009 at 10:27 AM PDT
Story Updated: Jun 28, 2009 at 7:11 PM PDT


A wide-ranging search was launched early Saturday in the town and the surrounding forests. The town was criss-crossed three times, but not a trace of Lindsey has been found. Even bloodhounds failed to pick up her scent.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html


Focus now on abduction
BY JACOB JONES The Daily World
Thursday, July 2, 2009 12:25 PM PDT


Scott said authorities have run into several dead ends with almost no signs of the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl, who was last spotted wearing a blue pullover shirt and blue jeans.

“I don’t know anything more than I knew Saturday afternoon,” he said, “but I’m not willing to admit that I know anything less.”

Scott said bloodhounds traced the route Lindsey took early on from the friend’s house to her own home, but didn’t find any scent. And in places where Lindsey once played — parks and by the creek — Lindsey’s scent has been vanishing.

The loss of scent could be a combination of factors — the heat on the sidewalk could have dissipated it for instance, he said.

http://**/articles/2009/07/02/local_news/doc4a4cf43c1b1dd881132403.txt
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« Reply #835 on: July 03, 2009, 10:25:23 PM »



...McCann said she has known Melissa Baum for 30 years. They were in Girl Scouts together and grew up in the Lacey area. She encouraged the family to move back to Washington state.

McCleary was a natural fit because McCann lives in nearby Elma.

Baum attended school for a short while in Elma, near the McCann home. But this year, she enrolled as a fifth-grader at McCleary School...

http://**/articles/2009/07/01/local_news/doc4a4ba94721f78989072462.txt
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« Reply #836 on: July 03, 2009, 10:27:42 PM »

Does anyone have the artice handy which Lindseys mom explains why she moves to WA? It is here somewhere but I cannot find it and need it for something I am trying to get at.

Edit typo per tracygirl.  MB

http://**/articles/2009/07/03/local_news/doc4a4e415cdb51d302573546.txt
Thanks Deenie for your efforts, I am actually looking for the article which states why Lindsey's mom moved from LA to WA
TG I didnt know that there was another article.
just does not make sense to me .. that you can move Jan 09 - to another city - and find love and feel confident as a family ..to entrust your entire life to a man.
I understand that some people will do anything to find comfort, love, support and jump into a relationship. Esp single Moms when they are struggling. My last relationship * we never lived together* was of 3 yrs and I can say even today..I still don't him, not really- we broke up a year ago. Does that make sense?
 
I guess I rather be poor and know my daughter was safe ..than to jump into the unknown.
I am a single mom and I always would wait at least 6mos ..for the guy I was dating to meet her/my Daughter. If he lasted that long. Not throwing Stones at anyone .. Just my opinion only.


“We’ve got half the state at the beach,” Scott said.


What beach?  The ocean?

I see a lot about the shower.  This was not a morning shower/bath.  She may have simply rinsed off and put her clothes on.  That is what I would have done at ten with a friend waiting.



Could be, there is a state park near by with a beach too, starts with a J. I can't recall the name.

Everyone at the beach - because it's a holiday weekend, I am guessing.
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« Reply #837 on: July 03, 2009, 10:29:13 PM »

my guess is they know where the scent ended.  they are not saying.  they probably have a very good idea what is going on but they have nothing to prove nor have probable cause so they are stuck til they find something so they can get some search warrants and start kicking in doors.
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« Reply #838 on: July 03, 2009, 10:29:19 PM »

Joemma Beach State Park
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« Reply #839 on: July 03, 2009, 10:33:21 PM »

why do the police want the mother to stay home and not help search? 
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