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Author Topic: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09 #1  (Read 565963 times)
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« Reply #1200 on: July 05, 2009, 05:57:55 PM »

KaraK, is local law enforcement and/or the FBI aware of your participation here and in other forums?  And have they cautioned you about what you reveal?  Please, Monkeys, don't shoot me for bringing this up.  After all, we are here to help Lindsey. But since KaraK and her family are key witnesses, there may be certain facts Kara and/or her family knows, or certain things that may have happened during the course of the investigation (like the FBI still having Lindsey's phone) that should not be made public for fear that it may jeopardize the investigation.  I'm just as curious as the next person, but when I put my lawyer hat on, I get a little concerned.



 
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« Reply #1201 on: July 05, 2009, 05:57:59 PM »

does anyone else find it strange that the last neighbor to see lindsey walking home was the same one that allegedly broke up the fight between her and her brother?  i guess it could be a coincidence

in regards to the possible second eye witness that has come forward, maybe that person is a child..or someone suspicious so LE is keeping it close to their belt

kara-you said you did volunteer to take a poly, i know this is prob a stupid question but did you actually take the poly or just volunteer to take it, and if you did take it did u pass?



No its not a stupid question. I have not been asked to go in and take one yet. That may have more to do with the fact that I don't drive or own a vehicle or the fact that I believe they checked the time via my computer on articles that I was writing and submitting at that time. It is still in the air though and they can come in at anytime and have me come in and take one.

Now don't quote me on this because i am not 100% certain but I believe the eye witness who also broke up the fight works at the Beehive and that was where she was headed when she says she saw Lindsey.
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« Reply #1202 on: July 05, 2009, 05:59:24 PM »

does anyone else find it strange that the last neighbor to see lindsey walking home was the same one that allegedly broke up the fight between her and her brother?  i guess it could be a coincidence

in regards to the possible second eye witness that has come forward, maybe that person is a child..or someone suspicious so LE is keeping it close to their belt

kara-you said you did volunteer to take a poly, i know this is prob a stupid question but did you actually take the poly or just volunteer to take it, and if you did take it did u pass?



They could have been walking by why she was out in her yard doing something and then passed Lindsey later on her way to work. I can see it happening. ::shrugs::

I agree.  I cannot comprehend why the neighbour/family friend woud obstruct the investigation.

Considering that one of the witnesses is a neighbour/family friend ... there is no mistaking indentification of Lindsey.

Janet
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« Reply #1203 on: July 05, 2009, 05:59:42 PM »



pink angel-you are right, it prob was just a coincidence... i need to stop over analyzing so much... haha as my dad says, 'over analysis causes brain paralysis'

sooo i'm gonna try not to overanalyze and just go with what i believe are the facts so far....

lindsey was allegedly fearful of someone in her life based on what she had written on her myspace....i dont think this person has been identified yet but i believe this fear was real and legitimate.  i'm wondering who this person could be. it could be someone who frequented the store she worked at and made her feel uncomfortable...many children have good intuition and gut instincts about people.
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« Reply #1204 on: July 05, 2009, 06:02:51 PM »

KaraK, is local law enforcement and/or the FBI aware of your participation here and in other forums?  And have they cautioned you about what you reveal?  Please, Monkeys, don't shoot me for bringing this up.  After all, we are here to help Lindsey. But since KaraK and her family are key witnesses, there may be certain facts Kara and/or her family knows, or certain things that may have happened during the course of the investigation (like the FBI still having Lindsey's phone) that should not be made public for fear that it may jeopardize the investigation.  I'm just as curious as the next person, but when I put my lawyer hat on, I get a little concerned.



 

I did ask the Sheriff's dept. and the FBI if there was anything I was not allowed to talk about and was told basically to use common sense and my own judgment. There are some minor details (that would not help in finding her) that they have not shared whether because they are deemed unimportant or what I do not know but those I have not shared either.

I get concerned about the same thing because I've never dealt with this before and don't know the rights and wrongs of it but it is too hard to sit at home and pray for a phone call or visit from authorities for info., so hopefully I am not causing any problems. I hope they would tell me if I were.
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« Reply #1205 on: July 05, 2009, 06:09:40 PM »

THE LINDSEY BAUM CASE AND THE INTERNET

"You can't imagine the guilt"
By Callie White
The Daily World
Friday, July 3, 2009 11:12 AM PDT


In the meantime, the information vacuum has given rise to rumors, spread both by word of mouth and the Internet, and Scott asked that anyone who hears anything check their sources before spreading it around.

ďItís rough on the family to get some of the phone calls theyíve been getting,Ē Scott said.

Indeed, Kampen agreed that everyone who was with Lindsey the night she disappeared has already been through enough that they donít need false information or criticism. Calling herself a glutton for punishment, Kampen has been on the Internet, in the chat rooms, where she said she has read plenty of jeremiads about her and her friendsí parenting skills.

Anything other people say, Kampen said, she and Melissa Baum have already felt.

http://**/articles/2009/07/03/local_news/doc4a4e415cdb51d302573546.txt
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ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #1206 on: July 05, 2009, 06:24:36 PM »



pink angel-you are right, it prob was just a coincidence... i need to stop over analyzing so much... haha as my dad says, 'over analysis causes brain paralysis'

sooo i'm gonna try not to overanalyze and just go with what i believe are the facts so far....

lindsey was allegedly fearful of someone in her life based on what she had written on her myspace....i dont think this person has been identified yet but i believe this fear was real and legitimate.  i'm wondering who this person could be. it could be someone who frequented the store she worked at and made her feel uncomfortable...many children have good intuition and gut instincts about people.

Stranger abductions, actual strangers are so very rare. Not saying it doesn't happen.

Usually it's someone who knows the child. A friend of the family, an acquaintance, someone who has either had contact with the child or knows the child in some capacity.


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« Reply #1207 on: July 05, 2009, 06:29:16 PM »



pink angel-you are right, it prob was just a coincidence... i need to stop over analyzing so much... haha as my dad says, 'over analysis causes brain paralysis'

sooo i'm gonna try not to overanalyze and just go with what i believe are the facts so far....

lindsey was allegedly fearful of someone in her life based on what she had written on her myspace....i dont think this person has been identified yet but i believe this fear was real and legitimate.  i'm wondering who this person could be. it could be someone who frequented the store she worked at and made her feel uncomfortable...many children have good intuition and gut instincts about people.

Stranger abductions, actual strangers are so very rare. Not saying it doesn't happen.

Usually it's someone who knows the child. A friend of the family, an acquaintance, someone who has either had contact with the child or knows the child in some capacity.




I was going to make a comment about Lindsey's fear comments. It could be a feeling she got after reading a book or watching a scary movie. I wish we knew more to put it in context.

Reading a comment like that after knowing she has just went missing...makes your mind go "there". I know. I feel the same way as you do.

Janet - Nice to hear you had a good evening. Sorry to hear you had to scurry home so soon before you were locked out of Canada. Wink Our fireworks were rained out. My son bought 70 dollars worth of fireworks and today looks nice out, so I expect a show this evening.
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« Reply #1208 on: July 05, 2009, 06:41:32 PM »

KaraK, is local law enforcement and/or the FBI aware of your participation here and in other forums?  And have they cautioned you about what you reveal?  Please, Monkeys, don't shoot me for bringing this up.  After all, we are here to help Lindsey. But since KaraK and her family are key witnesses, there may be certain facts Kara and/or her family knows, or certain things that may have happened during the course of the investigation (like the FBI still having Lindsey's phone) that should not be made public for fear that it may jeopardize the investigation.  I'm just as curious as the next person, but when I put my lawyer hat on, I get a little concerned.



 


I did ask the Sheriff's dept. and the FBI if there was anything I was not allowed to talk about and was told basically to use common sense and my own judgment. There are some minor details (that would not help in finding her) that they have not shared whether because they are deemed unimportant or what I do not know but those I have not shared either.

I get concerned about the same thing because I've never dealt with this before and don't know the rights and wrongs of it but it is too hard to sit at home and pray for a phone call or visit from authorities for info., so hopefully I am not causing any problems. I hope they would tell me if I were.

Ok, thanks.  Just be careful what you reveal.  A "use common sense" approach really isn't all that helpful considering most people have never in their lives had to deal with something like this, so there's nothing "common" about it.  Here's the approach I'd take--whatever you post, post it with the assumption that the perpetrator is on this board reading every word.  Then ask yourself if what you're about to reveal is something the perpetrator doesn't know, and would want to know, so he/she could alter his/her behavior, story, plan, what have you.  If the answer to the question is "yes," then you shouldn't reveal it.  To state the obvious, the perpetrator knows what happened. He/she is interested in knowing what investigators know.  I'd be very cautious revealing those things you know only because you learned them from law enforcement or the FBI, principally if it's information that is not in the public domain and it is something that is related to the way or the direction in which the investigation is being conducted.

Just my opinion, FWIW.
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« Reply #1209 on: July 05, 2009, 06:44:11 PM »

KaraK, is local law enforcement and/or the FBI aware of your participation here and in other forums?  And have they cautioned you about what you reveal?  Please, Monkeys, don't shoot me for bringing this up.  After all, we are here to help Lindsey. But since KaraK and her family are key witnesses, there may be certain facts Kara and/or her family knows, or certain things that may have happened during the course of the investigation (like the FBI still having Lindsey's phone) that should not be made public for fear that it may jeopardize the investigation.  I'm just as curious as the next person, but when I put my lawyer hat on, I get a little concerned.



 


I did ask the Sheriff's dept. and the FBI if there was anything I was not allowed to talk about and was told basically to use common sense and my own judgment. There are some minor details (that would not help in finding her) that they have not shared whether because they are deemed unimportant or what I do not know but those I have not shared either.

I get concerned about the same thing because I've never dealt with this before and don't know the rights and wrongs of it but it is too hard to sit at home and pray for a phone call or visit from authorities for info., so hopefully I am not causing any problems. I hope they would tell me if I were.

Ok, thanks.  Just be careful what you reveal.  A "use common sense" approach really isn't all that helpful considering most people have never in their lives had to deal with something like this, so there's nothing "common" about it.  Here's the approach I'd take--whatever you post, post it with the assumption that the perpetrator is on this board reading every word.  Then ask yourself if what you're about to reveal is something the perpetrator doesn't know, and would want to know, so he/she could alter his/her behavior, story, plan, what have you.  If the answer to the question is "yes," then you shouldn't reveal it.  To state the obvious, the perpetrator knows what happened. He/she is interested in knowing what investigators know.  I'd be very cautious revealing those things you know only because you learned them from law enforcement or the FBI, principally if it's information that is not in the public domain and it is something that is related to the way or the direction in which the investigation is being conducted.

Just my opinion, FWIW.


Thank you for that I really appreciate it. I had not thought about it that way.
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« Reply #1210 on: July 05, 2009, 06:46:12 PM »

FWIW, my instincts have told me all along that this isn't/wasn't a "true" stranger abduction, meaning that Lindsey is "somehow" acquainted with the person that has her.  My biggest concern is that that "person" is someone she was communicating with on the internet, perhaps through the school or library computers, who preyed on her sensitive emotional state.  Based on what I've read, Lindsey was somewhat of a troubled child, meaning that she had stressers in her life that children of her age aren't adequately equipped to deal with--namely a divorce and a father who lives thousands of miles away who apparently indicated that he wasn't coming back anytime soon and was being deployed to Iraq.  That makes her vulnerable.  Regardless of whether comments she made on her myspace page and perhaps elsewhere lead some to believe that she was a little advanced for a 10 year old, the fact remains that she has a brain and mind of a ten year old child.  She's unable to fully understand the consequences of her acts.  She's impressionable.  She's naive.  She's a child.  And her mental capacity is that of a 10 year old.  That's what scares me most about this case.

Having said that, my instincts tell me that the person who has her is local and that Lindsey personally knows him.  Why?  Because this appears to be a an "abduction of opportunity," not a planned abduction.  Lindsey wasn't doing something that she characteristically did--she wasn't following a pattern such that the perp knew exactly where she was going to be and at what time.  I think Lindsey went willingly with this person under false pretenses.  This makes the case scarier yet.

So, who would the potential suspects be?  In my mind, they fall into two categories.  Fathers and brothers of friends and teachers.  My questions to KaraK or others that knew Lindsey are these:  (A) are there any fathers or brothers of Lindsey's friends or teachers whom Lindsey spoke highly about, or with whom Lindsey seemed to have a close relationship?  (B) are there any fathers or brothers of Lindsey's friends or teachers that Lindsey seemed to have a crush on?  That she talked about alot?  That she perhaps spoke about in a more intimate fashion?  (Lindsey's best friends would be the best source of this information) (C) are there any fathers or brothers of Lindsey's friends or teachers who seemed to pay particular attention to her?  or who talked about her alot?  or who seemed, as weird as this may sound, to have a crush on her?  (D) are there any fathers or brothers of Lindsey's friends or teachers that bought her things out of the ordinary, took her places, or treated her uncharacteristically kind?  (E) are there any fathers or brothers of Lindsey's friends or teachers that seemed to be obsessed with her?




I hate to to this--just a bump . . .
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« Reply #1211 on: July 05, 2009, 06:49:52 PM »

Would it be off base to look into any adult that maybe spent time with just her brother as well?
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« Reply #1212 on: July 05, 2009, 06:50:18 PM »

KaraK, is local law enforcement and/or the FBI aware of your participation here and in other forums?  And have they cautioned you about what you reveal?  Please, Monkeys, don't shoot me for bringing this up.  After all, we are here to help Lindsey. But since KaraK and her family are key witnesses, there may be certain facts Kara and/or her family knows, or certain things that may have happened during the course of the investigation (like the FBI still having Lindsey's phone) that should not be made public for fear that it may jeopardize the investigation.  I'm just as curious as the next person, but when I put my lawyer hat on, I get a little concerned.



 
Thank-you, I was afraid to bring this up 
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« Reply #1213 on: July 05, 2009, 07:00:50 PM »

Questions for Kara:

1)Did you volunteer to take a poly test?Yes or no and why not if no.

2)The person who could be a possible witness to Lindsey walking up the hill on 6th street:How reliable is this person?

3)Does Kayla have a cell phone and do you know if Lindsey/Kayla was able to access the internet from thier phones.

4)Do you know where Mullins creek is exactly?Any way you can get a picture of the creek/property?

5)Do you know anything about the Beehive retirement home?Other's are saying on other forums that the Beehive place has a few(at least 4)empty apartments that have not been checked by LE.


1) Yes, I did volunteer to take a poly.

2) I don't know the person who saw Lindsey I've never seen her before and so can not attest to her reliability. She is also the same one who broke up the fight earlier I am told. - There are now claims of a second eye witness - no release here on who that was that says they saw her.

3) Kayla does not have a cell phone and Lindsey did not have internet access on her phone. She had straight text and calling. I believe FBI actually still has her phone.

4) I am still waiting to be shown where Mullins Creek is but once I know I will get a photo of it.

5) I know little more than it is a retirement center. I rarely see anyone outside of it and I had not heard there were vacant rooms not yet searched. I will ask about that and see what I can find out.
Thank you Kara for answering.
About the Beehive....This info came from the same person that you talked to the day before yesterday(I think)....posts at either WS's or HFTM.He/she took a lot of pictures.
1~Did you take a poly?

2~OK,so the sighting on 6th street,I'm going to assume this may not be true considering that the media(also Sheriff?)has stated that the witness that saw Lindsey on Maple between 5th and 6th streets is also the one who broke up the fight.Why would she now say she saw her on 6th street if she told LE she saw her on Maple......
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« Reply #1214 on: July 05, 2009, 07:01:52 PM »

Questions for Kara:

1)Did you volunteer to take a poly test?Yes or no and why not if no.

2)The person who could be a possible witness to Lindsey walking up the hill on 6th street:How reliable is this person?

3)Does Kayla have a cell phone and do you know if Lindsey/Kayla was able to access the internet from thier phones.

4)Do you know where Mullins creek is exactly?Any way you can get a picture of the creek/property?

5)Do you know anything about the Beehive retirement home?Other's are saying on other forums that the Beehive place has a few(at least 4)empty apartments that have not been checked by LE.


1) Yes, I did volunteer to take a poly.

2) I don't know the person who saw Lindsey I've never seen her before and so can not attest to her reliability. She is also the same one who broke up the fight earlier I am told. - There are now claims of a second eye witness - no release here on who that was that says they saw her.

3) Kayla does not have a cell phone and Lindsey did not have internet access on her phone. She had straight text and calling. I believe FBI actually still has her phone.

4) I am still waiting to be shown where Mullins Creek is but once I know I will get a photo of it.

5) I know little more than it is a retirement center. I rarely see anyone outside of it and I had not heard there were vacant rooms not yet searched. I will ask about that and see what I can find out.
Also another question:

6)Do you know of any problems with Josh and juvie?
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« Reply #1215 on: July 05, 2009, 07:06:39 PM »

KarmaRoundup

Beehive Retirement Home - Info - by each address
http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/gh_Parcel/index_a1.asp

Go to the link above - if the one below does not work - Link above.
Put in W for street direction and Maple in for street name - and hit the bottom arrow - and the Beehive Retirement home parcels will come up. Click on the parcel highlighted number and you will see photos and who the property is owned by..
 
http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/gh_Parcel/Search/ParcelList.asp?SrchParcelNo=&SrchHouseNo=&SrchStreetDirection=w&SrchStreetName=maple&Submit=Search&SrchLegalDesc=&offset=15
OOOOH!
Thanks Deenie....I have something to do now Smile
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« Reply #1216 on: July 05, 2009, 07:09:02 PM »

Mammacrazy and All 
about the Land and address -that I found = " business" attached with Judith's name. 
I tell you when I went and used the satellite and hovered over the " address" -
It appears to be in the middle of no where. So I kept on searching, because at this point, I just am running out of .. query's to run. And Since we have no real direction to go at this point " To Find Lindsey" .. even if it sounds Way off ... You never know.
* for anyone who is looking at this and asking What I am I typing about.
Owner:     MAURER GREGORY B & JUDITH K    
File Updated 7/5/2009   10:05
Address    4 BRECKENRIDGE DR    
Location    T 18 R 05 Sec 13
        HOQUIAM, WA 98550

Maurers own the Home of the address: 343 S. 1ST ST McCleary, Wa
where it was said (truth or no??) that a 911 call was or wasn't - placed from this residence for/of/ " Lindsey" stated by woman named Marilyn Lachester, who says she lives at this residence.
*** my thoughts that they own and RENT it out.

4 BRECKENRIDGE DR HOQUIAM, WA 98550  - comes up retail clothing with Judith President
the info site of the business says all information is provided by Dunn and Bradstreet. Hmm.
http://www.manta.com/company/mm8p6nf
Now I just searched her name again and came up with this address
http://whitepages.addresses.com/results.php?ReportType=34&qf=Judith&qi=0&qk=100&qn=Maurer&qs=WA&MoreInfoResult=1&RecID=0
Precision Hydroseeding Inc
2216 Simpson Ave
Aberdeen, WA 98520
http://www.manta.com/company/mm754kj
 Precision Hydroseeding Inc
2920 Industrial Rd, Hoquiam, WA 98550
Est. Annual Sales:    $130,000
Est. # of Employees:    4
Year Started:    1993
SIC #Code:    0782
Contact's Name:    Judith K Mauer
Contact's Title:    President
NAICS:    Landscaping Services
I can't find a website on the company - but It must be a company.
posted: 2008  http://www.portofgraysharbor.com/portInfo/boardMeetings/Meeting061008.html
COMMISSION MEETING
June 10, 2008
The Port of Grays Harbor Commission Meeting for June 10, 2008 was called to order at 9:00 a.m.
Those in attendance at the meeting were as follows:
VISITORS
Greg Maurer - Precision Hydroseeding
Judy Maurer - Precision Hydroseeding
within the meeting Minutes:
Greg Maurer of Precision Hydroseeding addressed the Commission. He requested an amendment to his Lease No. 948 with the Port in order to store various equipment and accomplish repairs on site. Once an amendment is completed, he would like to have the lease assigned to Evergreen Hydroseeding. Commissioner Pinnick advised Mr. Maurer that the Commission would consider his request and referred the matter to staff.
----
So what does this mean? He Leases a " enclosed storage ? on the water ? "
http://www.portofgraysharbor.com/portServices/index.html
snipped:
The Port's terminals are supported by large, paved, secured cargo yards, the Port's own on-dock rail system, and more than 104,000 square feet (9,661 square meters) of on-dock covered storage. The Port has a rail loop that goes through the entire facility.
------
Distance from Port to 4 Breckenridge Dr, Hoquiam, WA 98550 - 30 Miles.

$$$=tax shelter...but i really have no idea if it has anything to do with Lindsey..good find either way
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« Reply #1217 on: July 05, 2009, 07:09:34 PM »

KaraK, is local law enforcement and/or the FBI aware of your participation here and in other forums?  And have they cautioned you about what you reveal?  Please, Monkeys, don't shoot me for bringing this up.  After all, we are here to help Lindsey. But since KaraK and her family are key witnesses, there may be certain facts Kara and/or her family knows, or certain things that may have happened during the course of the investigation (like the FBI still having Lindsey's phone) that should not be made public for fear that it may jeopardize the investigation.  I'm just as curious as the next person, but when I put my lawyer hat on, I get a little concerned.



 


I did ask the Sheriff's dept. and the FBI if there was anything I was not allowed to talk about and was told basically to use common sense and my own judgment. There are some minor details (that would not help in finding her) that they have not shared whether because they are deemed unimportant or what I do not know but those I have not shared either.

I get concerned about the same thing because I've never dealt with this before and don't know the rights and wrongs of it but it is too hard to sit at home and pray for a phone call or visit from authorities for info., so hopefully I am not causing any problems. I hope they would tell me if I were.

Ok, thanks.  Just be careful what you reveal.  A "use common sense" approach really isn't all that helpful considering most people have never in their lives had to deal with something like this, so there's nothing "common" about it.  Here's the approach I'd take--whatever you post, post it with the assumption that the perpetrator is on this board reading every word.  Then ask yourself if what you're about to reveal is something the perpetrator doesn't know, and would want to know, so he/she could alter his/her behavior, story, plan, what have you.  If the answer to the question is "yes," then you shouldn't reveal it.  To state the obvious, the perpetrator knows what happened. He/she is interested in knowing what investigators know.  I'd be very cautious revealing those things you know only because you learned them from law enforcement or the FBI, principally if it's information that is not in the public domain and it is something that is related to the way or the direction in which the investigation is being conducted.

Just my opinion, FWIW.


Thank you for that I really appreciate it. I had not thought about it that way.

No problem, Kara.  I know you are under a lot of stress and are riding the proverbial emotional roller coaster.  No one ever asks for this to happen to them or someone close to them.  My prayers are with you and your family.  Without going into any detail as to why, you should inform law enforcement of every individual who has contacted you or a member of your family personally (ie, by phone or face to face) to discuss this case.  Is there anyone you guys spoke with that seemed unusually interested in the investigation?  You should also inform law enforcement of every individual who or vehicle that has been seen in your area since Lindsey went missing that you did not typically see in the area, or any person or vehicle that, for some reason, you found suspicious.  In short, trust your instincts--if it doesn't pass the "smell test," then something might be awry---and let law enforcement decide whether the information has value or not.  Don't assume it's "just nothing."

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KarmaRoundUp
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« Reply #1218 on: July 05, 2009, 07:09:41 PM »


Also,if whenever Josh arrived home so soon after leaving Lindsey and Kayla,did Melissa ask him"why are you home already?Where is Lindsey and Kayla?"I think right then and there I would have called Kayla's house and found out what is going on,I would have found out if Lindsey was staying the night for sure or if Kayla was staying the night for sure or would Lindsey be walking home alone.


I agree Karma.

The lack of communication between Melissa and Kara in regards to 10 year old Lindsey's  comings and goings does trouble me somewhat.

Janet

Hi Janet
I just look at it as the kids being closer with eachother than the parents are but yes,seems there should have been more communication going on.
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Deenie
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« Reply #1219 on: July 05, 2009, 07:10:03 PM »

KarmaRoundup

Beehive Retirement Home - Info - by each address
http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/gh_Parcel/index_a1.asp

Go to the link above - if the one below does not work - Link above.
Put in W for street direction and Maple in for street name - and hit the bottom arrow - and the Beehive Retirement home parcels will come up. Click on the parcel highlighted number and you will see photos and who the property is owned by..
 
http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/gh_Parcel/Search/ParcelList.asp?SrchParcelNo=&SrchHouseNo=&SrchStreetDirection=w&SrchStreetName=maple&Submit=Search&SrchLegalDesc=&offset=15
OOOOH!
Thanks Deenie....I have something to do now Smile

Yay 
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" God Bless The Babies Human, Fur, Feathered &  Finned" ~Caylee, Adji, & Sandra Cantu~ Peace~kai~cj *
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