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Author Topic: Lindsey Baum #2 7/10/09 - 7/28/09  (Read 496242 times)
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« Reply #540 on: July 16, 2009, 07:59:54 PM »

KaraK, you are right about the time line.  Without looking at my phone, I tried to remember when I talked to my Mother today.  I was off by 27 minutes.  Some people I suppose are more clock watchers than others.  I don't know.
I also think anyone who has interactions with Lindsey in the past weeks or even months, needs to be looked at, because you're right, she needs to be found!

Yeah, I really wish I'd paid more attention to the time because I know it would be a much clearer and more concise timeline - Though it does no good now for Lindsey it is something that I did learn from at least as far as the kids are concerned. I now make it a point to check clocks even if they only step out front to check the mail .


I would like to say though I've heard from some people that reside within a block or two of the path  between Lindsey's house and my own (not on the path but a block or 2 up or down from our streets) who said there were several homes that were not searched and that really ticks me off. With a missing child you would think every house within at least a 2 to 3 block radius if not more would have been thoroughly searched - just to eliminate them as possibilities as far as locations where she could be being held. rrrrr
Kara,I also read that the BeeHive retirement home has a few empty/abandoned apartments that were not checked.
Is there any way we could get a list of addys from the houses that were not checked or could you or Melissa ask Sheriff Scott or whoever is in charge WHY these places were not checked?
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« Reply #541 on: July 16, 2009, 08:01:14 PM »

Has Lindsey ever run away before?Even for a few hours or overnight?
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« Reply #542 on: July 16, 2009, 08:21:49 PM »


<snipped>

I think many understand this feeling and regarding WW there is a huge chance that he is just a genuinely nice guy and if that is the case then I believe he would fully understand why people need to dissect a persons life in order to eliminate them as a  possibility. - After all like was said the important issue is a child is missing - for those of us involved that means taking suspicion laid on each one of us like a champ if that is what it takes to bring any child home.


Kara

I also believe that Wayne Watne has nothing to do with the disappearance of Lindsey Baum.  However ... considering the location of where he resides in relation to the Baum residence as well as his connectin to both Josh (fishing) and Lindsey (church) ... LE must initially consider him a person of interest until otherwise ruled.

Janet
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« Reply #543 on: July 16, 2009, 09:55:06 PM »

Janet, I think you are so right.  Everyone, everything, everyplace is suspect.  For a child to simply disappear, as in vanish, I really just don't know.  I know we all wish we could figure this out.
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« Reply #544 on: July 16, 2009, 11:23:02 PM »

Janet those pictures that were taken of the Shell station and such at WS, the link is in the media thread. Those were taken around 9:15 at night, so people would get the feel of just how light it was there.
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« Reply #545 on: July 17, 2009, 12:21:02 AM »

Janet those pictures that were taken of the Shell station and such at WS, the link is in the media thread. Those were taken around 9:15 at night, so people would get the feel of just how light it was there.

Pink Angel

It is 9:16 PM PT ... a three hour drive from Seattle and ... the sun has set.  In 30 minutes ... dark will have settled in.

Seattle, Washington
The solstice in Seattle experiences a sunrise at 5:11 a.m. and sunset at 9:10 p.m. The earliest sunrise of 5:10 a.m. lasts from June 13-18. The maximum sunset of 9:10 p.m. lasts from June 20 through July 2.
http://geography.about.com/od/physicalgeography/a/longestday.htm

There is no way that a 10 year old girl should be walking five blocks on her own day or night.

Lindsey was defenceless.  I am angry.

Janet
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« Reply #546 on: July 17, 2009, 12:47:06 AM »

Janet those pictures that were taken of the Shell station and such at WS, the link is in the media thread. Those were taken around 9:15 at night, so people would get the feel of just how light it was there.

Pink Angel

It is 9:16 PM PT ... a three hour drive from Seattle and ... the sun has set.  In 30 minutes ... dark will have settled in.

Seattle, Washington
The solstice in Seattle experiences a sunrise at 5:11 a.m. and sunset at 9:10 p.m. The earliest sunrise of 5:10 a.m. lasts from June 13-18. The maximum sunset of 9:10 p.m. lasts from June 20 through July 2.
http://geography.about.com/od/physicalgeography/a/longestday.htm

There is no way that a 10 year old girl should be walking five blocks on her own day or night.

Lindsey was defenceless.  I am angry.

Janet

I agree with you, hon.

I am angry, sad, and scared to death for Lindsey.
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« Reply #547 on: July 17, 2009, 12:54:12 AM »

DD, sorry -- I made a mistake, I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.
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« Reply #548 on: July 17, 2009, 01:46:23 AM »

I took video with my phone a week and 2 days after Lindsey disappeared at the shell station. It was dark and I had to have my headlights on. Your right she was defencless. It is sad because every night when I tell my 9 year old its time to come in I think of Lindsey and how she should have had that same parental guidance. It just breaks my heart.
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« Reply #549 on: July 17, 2009, 07:10:17 AM »

KR - They would not tell us who has or has not been searched. We have seriously gotten little more then the following three phrases "We'll look into that", "nothing new" and "this is unrelated to Lindsey's disappearance..."

The beehive may have been checked after JVK from WS went over there but I don't even know that for sure. We've honestly seen little of them (LE).


Thank you Kara.

1.  Why did Melissa Baum not contact you until 10:25 PM?

2.  Why did Melissa Baum not contact 911 immediately following her conversation with you?



1) She very well may have tried to contact me before that. At the time I got her call I'd only shortly before that switched my phone back on because the battery was drained. At the time I actually talked to her I had 1 bar on my phone so it had not been on the charger very long. - And because I'm sure someone will wonder how I remember that it is because we almost immediately went out looking and during the first 30 minutes I had several short calls between me and Melissa just checking in making sure Lindsey hadn't shown up and then I had to drop my phone off at home and charge it because it was already going dead.

2) I can not tell you factually why or even if she waited 20 - 25 minutes to call them all I know is at the time she called me she was outside walking towards my house - so I would assume it was because she fully expected to see her walking up the street or she was still calling around to the other numbers on Lindsey's phone. - I've never seen any actual confirmation though that it was actually 10:50 either because in the time it took me to tell my old man what was going on, get my shoes and coat on and Scott to grab his keys and us to get to her house (a 2 minute drive) she was already waiting for the officer to show up. And I imagine it may have actually been slightly earlier then stated because the McCleary officer that Tacoma dispatch (i believe it was TD) called in had just got off duty and was at home and he lives outside of town and he was there at her house right about 11:00 pm.

Quote
Kara ... I live a 3 hour drive north of Seattle.  I noted that the sun had completely set by 9:50 PM in the days following Linsey's disappearance.

When I consider my grandchildren ... the time of night ... the lack of urgency prior to calling 911 ... I cannot make sense of the entire situation.

Janet

+++++++


I can't say anything about that except that at the time Lindsey left it was still light outside- actually it was about as light as the pics JVK posted. I am not the only one who keeps saying or has said that either, there is also the police who had no reason to lie about it, Melissa Baum, other residents and even "McCleary" (username) on web sleuths as well as others on the WS forums. If you've seen the pics over there you know at 9 it was still pretty light out.  10:15 was a different story though at that time it was dark. You would expect as we did that approximately a 7 minute walk would easily get her home before then. It is really not unusual to see good amount of light for a good hour or so after the sun starts to set which was around 9:15 or 9:20 or so this time of year. But then again today it was getting dark here by about 9pm.  Not to mention yet again that Lindsey is terrified of the dark and would have never walked out of my home alone if it would have been at all what she even considered dark - even if I would have told her to - she still would have asked to call her mom or asked for a ride home.

Stating that there was a lack of urgency really in my eyes is just your opinion and one that I suspect comes from the fact that you did not know Lindsey or Melissa but I have to respectfully disagree with that opinion- Here is a bit of background:

Lindsey was known to not always answer her phone and on more then one occasion try to talk someone into letting her stay over and notifying her mom was not a top priority so MB would find out when she showed up at ours or others homes looking for Lindsey or when she was calling around. She had every reason to suspect that Lindsey was actually inside a friends house which is exactly what I thought as well - knowing Lindsey.

- I know when I talked to Melissa she was very concerned and they were already out looking and were still calling around to Lindsey's friends homes. You don't know Lindsey though or her habits as her mother does. She was never outside after dark wandering around or walking the streets and if it was starting to get dark she always had someone with her and was on her way indoors. She never once left this house nor her mom's to my knowledge when it was dark out because she was terrified of the dark. If she stayed over here a little too late and it was dark outside or just in general if it was even evening and neither one of the girls were staying the night at each others houses she called her mom and she almost always came and picked her up (always if it was dark usually any other time) until their car broke down and after that before it got dark her bro would often show up to see if she was still here and walk home with her or my 3 oldest kids would walk her or sometimes she walked by herself (only if it was light out) but only once (without adult supervision) have I witnessed her outside after it was dark and at that time she was headed too my house and there were 3 of them together and they had to back track to a friends for something that was left behind otherwise they would have been here before dark. - Even then it was not even what I'd have considered dark - more dusky and my kids had their phone on them.

I understand that a lot of things to some seem "hinky" and that is fine when a person reads something in print and you get little snip-its fed to you here or there and that is combined with personal opinion and it is about something as important as a missing child which immediately fills you with a sense of fear and suspicion, to me that is to be expected and not something I'd ever look down on someone for nor would I want anyone to look down on me for it but you have to understand that every situation including this one there are things that affect situations that can only be understood if you actually know the individual(s) the behaviors and the place even.

Now this is not to try and sway any opinions because everyone forms their own based on their own facts or judgments nor is it to be defensive in any way or anything but I see so many opinions (not just here - everywhere- but here seems to be the best place to share them without major attack) that I really just have to put mine out there as well. --Seriously as much as many would like to portray MB as a bad or neglectful mom - she was not. MB tried damn hard to give her kids everything that they needed and then most of what they wanted while still being parental - (and I really am not concerned with  what a friend of a friend says because we all know how that goes - its only as good as the side of the story that wasn't told), she worked hard, raised her kids alone for several years and did the best that she could with the circumstances that she was dealt (as many of us have). She had rules and such with her kids but she couldn't always enforce those because she had to work and with some things in life there is only so much you have control over. She took her kids to the park, to the beach, the movies, got them phones to help keep an eye on them, sold girl scout cookies, had family night, showed up for parent-teacher conferences, called her kids' friends and drove to their houses if Lindsey didn't check in, put them into sports etc and like every other mom out there - she wasn't perfect - I think at times like these many forget that no one is perfect and I've met great moms but I've never met one that was perfect or even close for that matter.
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« Reply #550 on: July 17, 2009, 10:12:45 AM »

You are correct, I know when my kids were young I was not perfect. I look back and think why did I do this or that, I certainly didn't think my actions at the time would have caused something bad to happen. And even if a parent watches everything, or at least thinks they do, sometimes bad things happen. I would never want to be a parent whose child goes missing and or murdered, the guilt that one must put themselves through must be horrendous. I guess for myself to try and make sense about things, I just have to tell myself that everything happens for a reason. Little consolation for a family who has a missing or murdered love one. I do hope that Lindsey's mother is getting some kind of care under a doctor, anything to help with what she is going through.  an angelic monkey
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« Reply #551 on: July 17, 2009, 12:05:21 PM »

KaraK, I totally agree with you.  In retrospect, a lot of things would be different.  However, the reality is what it is and we need to look forward looking for Lindsey and not beating the dead horse about the time and how light out it was or wasn't and if she was my child/grandchild it would never have happened.  We need to be searching and not being so IMO judgmental about what "I" would have done differently.  We all learn from one another, but to keep bringing it up ad nausem is to me cruel.  Are we all angry?  Sure, a beautiful child has gone missing.  Unless the issues of "time" and "light" have some direct meaning or path to find her, and not simply out there for the "how could they?" . . .  IMO, if folks would spend as much energy and time in doing some research and/or praying, possibly we could move forward in finding Lindsey.  But hey, that's just my opinion.
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« Reply #552 on: July 17, 2009, 12:13:40 PM »

DD, I came to help, so please let me know if there is anything you need in research. I highly doubt I could do as well as you, but I do find some weird things sometimes  So sad once again here we are in the state of Washington.
My heart goes out to helping finding Lindsey and always in the justice for Sandra as well. I still find times when tears flow because of all of this. Anyways, I hope all is well for everyone. DD get at me when you can.. I wish I could have helped you in the beginning but i have so much going on here at home...But I can help now...I have been briefing the threads to get a feel of the case and will continue.

 an angelic monkey

~Love~
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« Reply #553 on: July 17, 2009, 12:39:05 PM »

Girl Escapes Luring In Olympia
Posted: 1:55 pm PDT July 16, 2009
Updated: 5:05 pm PDT July 16, 2009

A 14-year-old girl was approached by three men in the area of Capitol Boulevard and Dennis Street in Olympia, Tumwater police said.

As the girl was walking on the street three men in an older, small, black pickup with tinted windows and stickers on the tailgate approached her, said police.

Two of the men left the pickup and proceeded to follow the girl. One of the men called out to the girl, Hey pretty lady. After she saw she was being followed and that the men were talking to her, she ran away. The men chased her for a short time before getting back in the pickup and leaving, Tumwater police said.

The girl described two of the men as white, about 18 years old, medium build, wearing large white T-shirts and baggy blue jeans, but was unable to see the driver.

Anyone with information on the vehicle contact the Tumwater Police Department.

Article:
http://www.kirotv.com/news/20078656/detail.html



Police: Is Tumwater luring linked to McCleary case?
Story Published: Jul 16, 2009 at 5:20 PM PDT

Story Updated: Jul 17, 2009 at 9:34 AM PDT
By Shomari Stone

TUMWATER, Wash. - Police are investigating whether the attempted abduction of a girl in Tumwater on Wednesday is linked to last month's highly publicized disappearance of 11-year-old Lindsey Baum in McCleary.

Officials say three men tried to kidnap the 14-year-old girl in broad daylight on Wednesday as she was walking along a busy street, but the girl was able to escape by running away.

The close call left the girl very shaken, and now detectives are comparing the similarities between her experience and Lindsey Baum's unexplained disappearance June 26 in McCleary, about 22 miles away.

"We investigate because child lurings aren't as common as most crimes, and when you have two communities that are so close together and the circumstances where obviously it occurred in public areas. And the girls are approximately the same age," says Detective Jen Kolb of the Tumwater Police Department.

The Tumwater girl, whose name is being withheld, says she was walking along Capitol Boulevard to her mother's place of work when the three men jumped out of a black pickup.

They were yelling, "Hey, pretty lady, how are you?" then came after her, she says.

The girl started running, and the men chased after her. But soon after they gave up the chase, ran back to the pickup and drove off.

The experience left the girl scared, alone and distraught. So she ran to her mother's place of work and breathlessly told her what had happened.

"She was very scared, shaken - didn't know what to think or what to do," says her mother.

The girl now says she believes the men wanted to hurt her.

"In a way, yeah. ... Just the way they were talking to me and trying to come to me," she says.

Kolb said she finds the case "very disturbing" and is struck by the parallels to the disappearance of Lindsey Baum.

Investigators want anyone with information to call the Tumwater Police Department at (360) 754-4200.

http://www.komonews.com/news/50980987.html
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« Reply #554 on: July 17, 2009, 12:48:18 PM »

TUMWATER: Girl describes men she says tried to lure her
THE OLYMPIAN
Published: 07/17/09

A 14-year-old girl said three men attempted to lure her about 4:30 p.m. Wednesday as she walked in the area of Capitol Boulevard and Dennis Street.

She said a pickup carrying three men pulled over, and two got out and approached her. One called out to her. When she saw they were following her, she ran away, she said.

She said the men briefly chased her before getting back in the truck and leaving.

The vehicle is described as an older, lowered, small black truck with tinted windows and stickers on the tailgate. The girl did not get a good look at the driver, but she described the men who chased her as white males, 18 or 19 years old, between 5 feet, 8 inches, and 5 feet, 11 inches tall, of medium build, and wearing baseball caps sideways. Both were wearing plain white T-shirts and baggy blue jeans.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwest/story/813342.html
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« Reply #555 on: July 17, 2009, 01:00:29 PM »

No description of the men ? No drawings ? No lic plate number ? Any Detectives out looking at local surveillance videos trying to identify them ?

She is one luck 14 yer old..

But I have 14 attempted abductions of young girls recorded from San Diego to Los Angeles in 4 month time period in the Dubois case by largely Hispanic males ..
This is getting out of control..

This is the kind of thing that only vigilant good men and a baseball bat can solve.
The police never seem to catch these guys..

The one case that bugs me the most in Los Angeles area was the Hispanic male who tied a tie wrap around the girls neck which was choking her to death and he was stuffing her in his trunk of his car when her brother jumped on the guy..

The attacker was able to take the aggression of the brothers attack and stayed Emotionless while he got back in his car and drove away.. complete description and drawings and still the police have not found him or at least I have not found a news article that say they did.
This guy was witnessed...
The lack of emotion thing is showing up in various cases.. What is that ? Are they on drugs ? I can show you case after case where this emotionless ..almost trance like state of attackers in broad day light..
Something is up..

But these arrogant attackers like this 14 year old ran into are growing in numbers and parents need to keep there hands on there children until they are 45.. What kind of America are WE allowing to exist ?  These men have no fear.   

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« Reply #556 on: July 17, 2009, 01:09:27 PM »

What kind of American males would do this?

older, lowered, small black truck with tinted windows and stickers on the tailgate.

white males, 18 or 19 years old, between 5 feet, 8 inches, and 5 feet, 11 inches tall

wearing baseball caps sideways

wearing plain white T-shirts and baggy blue jeans.

Only a few groups wear the hat sideways...
Skate Boarders is one of them and Rappers is another one.
Large t-shirts and baggy fits both groups..

None of this is characteristic of other attempted abductions..
I would almost consider that this has something to do with some other form of attack..
Teen on Teen ? Of course there true intention is impossible to know from a news report.
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« Reply #557 on: July 17, 2009, 01:38:06 PM »

What kind of American males would do this?

older, lowered, small black truck with tinted windows and stickers on the tailgate.

white males, 18 or 19 years old, between 5 feet, 8 inches, and 5 feet, 11 inches tall

wearing baseball caps sideways

wearing plain white T-shirts and baggy blue jeans.

Only a few groups wear the hat sideways...
Skate Boarders is one of them and Rappers is another one.
Large t-shirts and baggy fits both groups..

None of this is characteristic of other attempted abductions..
I would almost consider that this has something to do with some other form of attack..
Teen on Teen ? Of course there true intention is impossible to know from a news report.


Young teens and they hey pretty lady comment make it sounds like a couple of guys hitting on a young girl and perhaps taking it too far. I read on another board that this is a VERY busy area, especially at 4:30 pm and there should have been ton of witnesses. This wasn't a small 1500 person town, small town, at sundown kind of thing.
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« Reply #558 on: July 17, 2009, 03:54:49 PM »

What kind of American males would do this?

older, lowered, small black truck with tinted windows and stickers on the tailgate.

white males, 18 or 19 years old, between 5 feet, 8 inches, and 5 feet, 11 inches tall

wearing baseball caps sideways

wearing plain white T-shirts and baggy blue jeans.

Only a few groups wear the hat sideways...
Skate Boarders is one of them and Rappers is another one.
Large t-shirts and baggy fits both groups..

None of this is characteristic of other attempted abductions..
I would almost consider that this has something to do with some other form of attack..
Teen on Teen ? Of course there true intention is impossible to know from a news report.


It's possible it could be gang related.  I've read of cases where part of a gang initiation is to rape girls, sometimes they don't survive to tell about it. 

It's a whole different world than when I was growing up.  Scary as hell.   I also think so much of this is happening because they seem to be getting away with it.  There are RSO's living in our neighborhoods that should not be out of jail but the system does not know what to do with them.  We need new & better laws for this kind of thing.  Our children, especially our daughters are not safe and it should not be that way.  You can't let your child out of your site for 5 minutes for fear she will disappear.  It is a sad world when a person isn't say in their own backyard.
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« Reply #559 on: July 17, 2009, 04:42:53 PM »

I agree rebel.

There are laws though already on the books that are not being funded or properly enforced. You can make all the laws in the world but if they are not being enforced or funded, they are just words on a page.

Short of executing sex offenders or sticking them all on an island full of lions and tigers and deadly snakes surrounded by a giant moat full of killer sharks and pirahna to fend for themselves "lord of the fly" style...my perfect wish list would include:
     
Stricter mandatory sentencing. If you are sentenced to 10 years, you do 10 years. No exceptions, no good time.

Second strike law. If a child molester re-offends, he is sentenced for life, no exceptions.

First time offenders will be GPS tracked for five years after their release date.

Once released, if you fail to register with the National Registry, you get sent back to prison for five years. No exceptions. No "homeless" crap. You must have an verifiable address or you get sent back to jail.

If you violate your parole, you get sent back to jail. No excuses, no exceptions. One year min. each violation. Added on to your sentence if you violate because of being charged for something else. Such as a drug charge. You get two years for having pot and one year additional for the parole violation.

These are just a few of my wish list.
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