Lively Case Discussion #546 11/19 - 11/21/2006

[dkpen]

Do any of you by any chance have an old screen capture of Joran's tickle site or myspace that showed how he listed bangbus as a favorite? TIA

I don't remember seeing Bangbus on any of his sites.

I remember it being listed, I just don't have a screen capture of it. Drats!

[dkpen]

Found this old article and thought I'd post it for review. I don't agree with the article intirely but I think some of the points here could be possible. Especially about the part about leaving Natalee on the beach. I don't believe it.

[Carnut]

I have never mentioned this on here before, but I have discussed it with Anna, but no one else.  There used to be lurkers from the NL, who came from websites regarding blond having sex with dogs.  This lurker was on many, many times.  Then some starting coming on here very late at night from different places in Europe from sites that were similar, like "girls gone wild with dogs."  I do not doubt anything nor put anything past these  sleezy Arubans, Joran, and their ilk and even his own parents.  I think they would drug a Natalee and force her to have sex with dogs if they could get a video of that, and I think further they would try to sell, later on if they are cleared, a video of Natalee dying.  I think they have no scruples.  Now, I have said that.  Watch the site meter.  I think you might get a clue why anna and I have worried about the dog thing.

I pray that Natalee did not have to endure something as horrendous as bestiality.  I pray that she died of an overdose or injury received early in the course of the evening and was not tortured or filmed. If they did anything to her like that, they deserve to be stung between the legs by a swarm of killer bees, until their willies burst from swelling, and then the birds peck off what's left.  It needs to be slow and agonizing.

No relation to Lorena Bobbit are you?

[dkpen]

Duh, forgot to post the article. lol  Here we go...


July 06, 2005, 05:15 PM
 
So What Really Happened to Natalee Holloway?
It has been 37 days of Keystone Cops style investigating in Aruba and still
no sign of Nalalee Holloway, dead or alive. We have been presented with many
obvious possibilities but here is one theory that appeared on Greta van
Susteren's excellent blog http://www.gretawire.com. It is a relatively long
piece, but it just may be crazy enough to be the truth (minor editing by
yours truly):
 
Dear Greta,
 
"Referring to my earlier e-mails about the Natalee case I believe the
reconstructions at the beach yesterday, Sunday July 3, when the three
suspects were taken to the beach separately, supports what I have earlier
written about this case.
 
A central point in my theory regarding what happened to Natalee is that
Natalee was not driven to the beach at all the night of her disappearance.
Rather, she was taken somewhere else as part of a well prepared plan to
abduct her. At this other location she was possibly handed over to other
accomplices to the crime and taken off the island before she was even
reported missing.
 
If the investigators, too, are leaning towards this theory, the
"reconstruction" on Sunday July 3 makes sense. I assume the police want to
learn is if the three suspects stories match - in particular regarding their
testimonies about driving Natalee to the beach and leaving her and Joran
there.
 
What the police wants each of them to detail during this "reconstruction" is
exactly where their car entered the beach, exactly where they parked the
car, exactly in what direction, exactly which way the driver turned the car
around to return from the beach etc., etc.
 
If their stories do not match, the investigators can conclude - exactly as I
have done for a long time - that the three of them didn't drive Natalee to
the beach at all that night. The entire "beach story" is a hoax to draw the
investigators to a point of no significance.
 
In doing so, the three suspects' statements about (a) the security guards,
which they later retracted and (b)the contradictions regarding driving
Natalee to the beach, where Joran at first denied being alone with Natalee
on the beach, but later "admitted" the story about leaving, may all be part
of a very deliberate plan to make the investigators believe that the beach
plays an important role in Natalee's disappearance. This is because all
three suspects were, at first, apparently "hiding the truth" about the beach
and only reluctantly "admitting" that they took Natalee to the beach. All
the while, the crime took place at a totally different location!
 
I believe the purpose of the Sunday "reconstruction" was to establish so
many inconsistencies in the three suspects' explanations about the exact
locations and other details pertaining to their "beach story," that the
investigators can rule out the beach as the crime scene. Furthermore, in
doing so, the investigators or the prosecutor in the case, may use this new
information in order to gain the judge's ruling to allow the investigators
to continue to keep the three suspects incarcerated.
 
So much for explaining what did NOT happened to Natalee. Now to what MIGHT
have happened. While I can say with almost 100 percent certainty that this
crime did NOT take place on the beach, I can only "suggest" what MIGHT have
happened.
 
One such theory is that Joran was pressured into befriending Natalee, so
that he (with the assistance of his two accomplices) could abduct her and
hand her over to members of a foreign mafia, who would then arrange to take
her off the island for trafficking/prostitution.
 
I suggested that Joran, who was well known for his gambling, might have run
up such a huge gambling debt, in private high stakes "fixed" poker games,
for instance - that he was being seriously threatened and forced to assist
the mafia in abducting Natalee - as the only means of settling his debt.
 
I also suggested that Joran, known for his gambling, might have been
deliberately chosen by the mafia because his father is a prospective future
judge on the island. Setting up Joran, and forcing him to assist in
Natalee's abduction, would give the mafia an enormous "leverage" vis-à-vis
Joran's father - a future local judge - should the mafia ever need that in
the future.
 
One should not rule out the direct involvement of Joran's father. As is
known, he and Joran were gambling together earlier in the night when Natalee
disappeared. I find it a bit strange that a high profile man, like Joran's
father, goes gambling with his son at a local casino. However, this could be
a cover for a last opportunity for Joran and his father to go over the
details of Natalee's abduction - which was to take place later that night.
 
Now, as for the likelihood of the mafia holding such power on Aruba, that
they could actually plan and execute such a serious crime, let me explain
the following - which I actually did not know when I detailed this theory
for FOX News for the first time, about a week ago.
 
Initially, I pictured the local casino in Aruba as a crummy, smoke-filled
room with a wobbly roulette table and a poker table in a "back room." Since
then, I have learned that a leading online poker company, PartyPoker.com,
holds some of its major tournaments there.
 
As a former top professional poker player with many major tournament
victories in Las Vegas, Los Angeles and other places, I know personally both
the president of PartyPoker.com and most of the top professionals. I have
personally played with them hundreds of times.
 
Let me underline that there is absolutely no reason to believe that
PartyPoker.com is involved in Natalee's abduction. This company makes so
many BILLIONS of dollars a year on their completely honest and legal online
poker websites, that there is no way they would get involved in any criminal
activity - hence running the risk of spoiling such a profitable business.
 
What I am suggesting however - and which I accidentally witness in a TV
program shown here in Norway, where I now live, is that almost every one of
the world's top professional and amateur high stakes poker players was
present in Aruba during this major PartyPoker.com tournament. Watching the
program on TV here in Norway, I personally recognized dozens of them from
Las Vegas and other places I've played.
 
(Note from Ira: Rather than Partypoker.com, the letter writer may be
referring to the World Poker Tour which is televised on the Travel Channel
in the United States and around the world. One of the hosts of the World
Poker Tour, Mike Sexton is associated with the Partypoker.com website).
 
These are players who would not even blink if they won or lost several
hundred thousand dollars in a night. With this number of top players
gathered in Aruba literally hundreds of millions of dollars will change
hands over the poker tables in a couple of nights. And the really high
stakes games will be conducted in private homes or hotel rooms away from the
casino.
 
Such an amount of unregistered money, which may easily be whitewashed at a
local casino, is bound to attract tough international mafia members - just
like flies are drawn to an open garbage can. And the mafia knows how to draw
a passionate gambler into its web.
 
This is all I am going to say about this. I simply wanted to mention why my
theory in the Natalee abduction case is not such a wild idea as one might
first think. Natalee may even have been a "special order" for the private
pleasure of a foreign mafia boss - to be disposed of after a couple of
weeks. After all, Aruba is not far away from some of the world's most
notorious cocaine mafias - for whom murders are daily events.
 
For further details about my theory in the Natalee case, I suggest FOX News
consult my three former e-mails regarding the case. Feel free to contact me
if you want to discuss this in more detail."
 
Sincerely yours,
 
Sven Arntzen
 
Oslo, Norway
 
Posted by Ira Simmons, July 6, 2005 05:15 PM (Pacific)
 
 
 http://blogs.chronwatch.com/archives/2005/07/so_what_really.asp

[dkpen]

Forgot to add contact info.  I wonder if anyone ever contacted this person to see if he noticed anyone out of place on the security video's for the poker tournament.


About the Writer: Ira Simmons is a versatile Bay Area columnist who closely follows events in politics, sports, and the entertainment industry. He maintains a website at: http://www.topthecharts.net. Ira receives e-mail at topthecharts@sbcglobal.net.

[Carnut]

Totally agree Nat and the 3 amigos never made it to the beach and everything is being directed there to help the coverup.

I don't agree that Nat was intentionally picked out earlier for later action.

For one thing after the blackjack activities were concluded JVDS discsussion about going to CnC's was with the other girls and no one would have known for sure Nat would go to CnC's with the group, or that Nat might not have left early like one of the girls in the group did.

JVDS picking out nat at CnC's was just random bad luck of the draw at CnC's.

[SunFreak2]

I pray that Natalee did not have to endure something as horrendous as bestiality.  I pray that she died of an overdose or injury received early in the course of the evening and was not tortured or filmed. If they did anything to her like that, they deserve to be stung between the legs by a swarm of killer bees, until their willies burst from swelling, and then the birds peck off what's left.  It needs to be slow and agonizing.

Ooowww I can see all the men here holding their willies just from that statement. Hurts to just think about it. LOL  

Yes, it puts a whole new spin on the words "throbbing member."  People who sexually abuse/exploit others should be made to forfeit their sexual organs.  Sort of like an eye for an eye.  I hope J2KP remember that what goes around comes around.

[Carnut]

I pray that Natalee did not have to endure something as horrendous as bestiality.  I pray that she died of an overdose or injury received early in the course of the evening and was not tortured or filmed. If they did anything to her like that, they deserve to be stung between the legs by a swarm of killer bees, until their willies burst from swelling, and then the birds peck off what's left.  It needs to be slow and agonizing.

Ooowww I can see all the men here holding their willies just from that statement. Hurts to just think about it. LOL  

Yes, it puts a whole new spin on the words "throbbing member."  People who sexually abuse/exploit others should be made to forfeit their sexual organs.  Sort of like an eye for an eye.  I hope J2KP remember that what goes around comes around.

Humm, even our infamous female teachers who had relations with their mail students?

[dkpen]

WOW, now I feel really brain dead...I should of thought about this one.  Practicing this will prove beneficial to all of us.  I encourage you to pass it on to your family and friends.  Be SAFE, BE WELL, BE HAPPY!
 
SAFETY TIP 101

Next time you come home for the night and you go to put your keys away, think of this:

It's a security alarm system that you probably already have and requires no installation.

Start keeping your car keys next to your bed on the night stand when you go to bed at night

If you think someone is trying to get into your house, or if you hear a noise outside your house, just press the panic alarm on your car key chain. Test it'.   It will go off from most everywhere inside your house and will keep honking until your battery runs down or until you reset it with the button. It works if you park in your driveway or garage.

 If your car alarm goes off when someone is trying to break in your house, odds are the burglar or rapist won't stick around.....after a few seconds all the neighbors will be looking out their windows to see who is out there and sure enough the criminal won't want that.  Try to make sure it works before you rely on it. Just know that you must press the alarm button again to turn it off.

 And remember to carry your keys while walking to your car in a parking lot. The alarm can work the same way there.....

 This is something that should really be shared with everyone. Maybe it could save a life or a sexual abuse crime.

[Anna]

[
Humm, even our infamous female teachers who had relations with their mail students?

Well, there are levels and degrees but basically, yes.  I was not however aware of any of these students never being seen or heard from again.
I do think there is a difference in sexual exploitation and murder for sex.  One is very permanent and final.

And it is for those predators I would reserve the harshest judgment.

.

[SunFreak2]

I pray that Natalee did not have to endure something as horrendous as bestiality.  I pray that she died of an overdose or injury received early in the course of the evening and was not tortured or filmed. If they did anything to her like that, they deserve to be stung between the legs by a swarm of killer bees, until their willies burst from swelling, and then the birds peck off what's left.  It needs to be slow and agonizing.

No relation to Lorena Bobbit are you?

LOL.  No!  But I do advocate every girl buy herself a pocket Bobbit that slices and dices same as the orginal model.  j/k

Seriously, nice & respectful men need not worry.

[dkpen]

Totally agree Nat and the 3 amigos never made it to the beach and everything is being directed there to help the coverup.

I don't agree that Nat was intentionally picked out earlier for later action.

For one thing after the blackjack activities were concluded JVDS discsussion about going to CnC's was with the other girls and no one would have known for sure Nat would go to CnC's with the group, or that Nat might not have left early like one of the girls in the group did.

JVDS picking out nat at CnC's was just random bad luck of the draw at CnC's.

Oh I agree Carnut. Hince why I said I didn't agree with everything but some of the points brought up in this article make sense. And I wondered if this guy Sven was ever contact. I know I had it sent to CVZ, Art Woods, Beth, Dave, and a few other authorities. Just never learned if this person was contacted or not. I guess I should contact them and ask huh. lol

[Carnut]

[
Humm, even our infamous female teachers who had relations with their mail students?

Well, there are levels and degrees but basically, yes.  I was not however aware of any of these students never being seen or heard from again.
I do think there is a difference in sexual exploitation and murder for sex.  One is very permanent and final.

And it is for those predators I would reserve the harshest judgment.

.

Yes, I also think there is a difference as well, I was as usual just playing devils advocate.

[SunFreak2]

[
Humm, even our infamous female teachers who had relations with their mail students?

Well, there are levels and degrees but basically, yes.  I was not however aware of any of these students never being seen or heard from again.
I do think there is a difference in sexual exploitation and murder for sex.  One is very permanent and final.

And it is for those predators I would reserve the harshest judgment.

.

Exactly Anna.  Look how much recidivism there is amongst rapists & pedophiles.  It's obvious that whatever our penal system (no pun intended) is doing is not working.  I would vote on harsher penalties anyday.

[dkpen]

This is for msmarples M&C thread.  Not sure if she has this one or not. I've read most of her thread but not all of it.  This is an old email Greta posted on her site. Thought I'd share it just incase.
E-mail No. 10

Dear Greta,
Just got back from Aruba from our yearly vacation there. This time was so different. I think Natalee Holloway is getting back on them.
Apparently the island is inundated with crime due to drugs. My husband and I have been going there for over 12 years and have always felt safe until now. We were robbed of over $3000 worth of stuff on the beach last week during our visit.
They try so desperately to keep it secret — I learned this from the natives. However, the week before us there was another robbery on the beach — denied by the management of our resort (of course, due to public relations, etc.) Two days after we were robbed, so were my friends. A couple we met were robbed at the Lighthouse while visiting the beach! Three natives told me their homes were broken into! The crime is rampant on the island and word needs to get out. We type messages on the Aruban message boards to warn people and they do not get posted.
I had the pleasure of taunting Deepak Kalpoe at his place of business and then seeing Joran van der Sloot in the old Wyndham casino the night he was freed from the NY lawsuit. He walked in there with such arrogance that I wanted to punch him out! People in the casino that work there patted him on the back with such celebration it made me sick! The island reeks of corruption! The natives speak of Beth Twitty as a drunken slut who fixed the whole story. I met her last year late at night and she was sober as sober can be!
I have been going to Aruba for so many years — it was my home away from home. However, after being robbed on the beach, meeting Deepak and seeing Joran in action, I am totally confused! It is obvious (and spoken by the natives) that the government is so corrupt. I no longer feel safe in Aruba. How is it that Natalee is missing and these arrogant, low-life a__holes are walking free!
Donna Bykowski
Oakland, NJ

[SunFreak2]

Good night everybody.  I need my beauty sleep.      

[Anna]

[
Humm, even our infamous female teachers who had relations with their mail students?

Well, there are levels and degrees but basically, yes.  I was not however aware of any of these students never being seen or heard from again.
I do think there is a difference in sexual exploitation and murder for sex.  One is very permanent and final.

And it is for those predators I would reserve the harshest judgment.

.

Yes, I also think there is a difference as well, I was as usual just playing devils advocate.

Better be careful doing that, we might start asking why there are no female serial killers and why women are the victims something like 4000 to one and other things that do not reflect well on that position.  

It can be a difficult one to defend.  But basically ANY people who cannot control themselves need to be contained or put down so they do not harm the rest of us.

And I don't think the mafia from any part of the world would be foolish enough to get involved in the abduction of somebody's American teen age daughter.  They are the last people that want to bring heat and publicity on themselves and they are usually not extremely stupid or they don't last long.

The world is awash in desperate women and children who can be taken with no one to come after them.  I just can't see one getting involved in something like this.

.

[Tylergal]

[
Humm, even our infamous female teachers who had relations with their mail students?

Well, there are levels and degrees but basically, yes.  I was not however aware of any of these students never being seen or heard from again.
I do think there is a difference in sexual exploitation and murder for sex.  One is very permanent and final.

And it is for those predators I would reserve the harshest judgment.

.

Exactly Anna.  Look how much recidivism there is amongst rapists & pedophiles.  It's obvious that whatever our penal system (no pun intended) is doing is not working.  I would vote on harsher penalties anyday.

I recall a few years ago there was a repeat offender (cannot remember if it was pedophile or just sorry old rapist) who asked the "penal" system, to castrate him because he knew he could never change and felt it fair to himself and anyone he might abuse, this would be in the best interests of himself and society.  I agree that three strikes and castration occurs.

[Tylergal]

I pray that Natalee did not have to endure something as horrendous as bestiality.  I pray that she died of an overdose or injury received early in the course of the evening and was not tortured or filmed. If they did anything to her like that, they deserve to be stung between the legs by a swarm of killer bees, until their willies burst from swelling, and then the birds peck off what's left.  It needs to be slow and agonizing.

Ooowww I can see all the men here holding their willies just from that statement. Hurts to just think about it. LOL  

Yes, it puts a whole new spin on the words "throbbing member."  People who sexually abuse/exploit others should be made to forfeit their sexual organs.  Sort of like an eye for an eye.  I hope J2KP remember that what goes around comes around.

Humm, even our infamous female teachers who had relations with their mail students?

But!  were those mail students disgruntled postal workers?

[Carnut]

I pray that Natalee did not have to endure something as horrendous as bestiality.  I pray that she died of an overdose or injury received early in the course of the evening and was not tortured or filmed. If they did anything to her like that, they deserve to be stung between the legs by a swarm of killer bees, until their willies burst from swelling, and then the birds peck off what's left.  It needs to be slow and agonizing.

Ooowww I can see all the men here holding their willies just from that statement. Hurts to just think about it. LOL  

Yes, it puts a whole new spin on the words "throbbing member."  People who sexually abuse/exploit others should be made to forfeit their sexual organs.  Sort of like an eye for an eye.  I hope J2KP remember that what goes around comes around.

Humm, even our infamous female teachers who had relations with their mail students?

But!  were those mail students disgruntled postal workers?

Oooops, just another one of those signs of aging.