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Author Topic: The Weirdos Connected To The Churches & Strange Goings-On  (Read 87046 times)
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« Reply #180 on: July 16, 2009, 09:38:12 PM »

doesn't this wreak of wenatchee, which by the way is just to the east of this area.  And I really do keep seeing some of the names I saw in the cantu case LOL.  later I will go through and see if they are the same people, but I don't have time right now.  just bizarre

I have too, making a list -- later I'll get you to check it twice (not really, once will be sufficient).
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« Reply #181 on: July 16, 2009, 10:13:45 PM »

doesn't this wreak of wenatchee, which by the way is just to the east of this area.  And I really do keep seeing some of the names I saw in the cantu case LOL.  later I will go through and see if they are the same people, but I don't have time right now.  just bizarre

I have too, making a list -- later I'll get you to check it twice (not really, once will be sufficient).

oh where is the post about you asked if you dreamed up the name, I remember now whre that name is I think.  I think that name is connected to wayne watne
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« Reply #182 on: July 16, 2009, 10:17:01 PM »

I think I will go discuss this elsewhere, I can see it is becoming a problem here.

NO NO Please don't leave.  I haven't really had a chance to do much posting here but I have been up till all hours reading all the info posted here and I think you are onto something.  I will not elaborate but DD I do know where you are coming from.  I know this kind of thing exists and it happens everyday all over.  I know that some people may find it hard to believe and it is very controversial but everything needs to be researched, researched & researched. Whatever it takes to bring Lindsey home.  These kind of cases are always tough and a lot of people, especially real religious people don't want to talk about it, they want to pretend it's not real, it frightens them and rightly so, myself included BUT it has to be looked into and more people need to become aware of what's going on with this stuff.   

Thanks for all your hard work.

God Bless You

Where are you Lindsey?
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« Reply #183 on: July 16, 2009, 10:18:38 PM »

did you see my question in the other thread?
Was the last name Gregoire mentioned here or did I dream it?

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« Reply #184 on: July 16, 2009, 10:23:38 PM »

I think I will go discuss this elsewhere, I can see it is becoming a problem here.

NO NO Please don't leave.  I haven't really had a chance to do much posting here but I have been up till all hours reading all the info posted here and I think you are onto something.  I will not elaborate but DD I do know where you are coming from.  I know this kind of thing exists and it happens everyday all over.  I know that some people may find it hard to believe and it is very controversial but everything needs to be researched, researched & researched. Whatever it takes to bring Lindsey home.  These kind of cases are always tough and a lot of people, especially real religious people don't want to talk about it, they want to pretend it's not real, it frightens them and rightly so, myself included BUT it has to be looked into and more people need to become aware of what's going on with this stuff.   

Thanks for all your hard work.

God Bless You

Where are you Lindsey?

I love your avi.  I'm a real religious type, it's what I do. 
 
But I also know in the world, known as the community where I live, evil in guises lurks.  Our children are so vulnerable.  Some adults have taken their innocene of mind and body and destroyed it.  God bless you and all who care about the children and one another.
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« Reply #185 on: July 16, 2009, 10:58:07 PM »

did you see my question in the other thread?
Was the last name Gregoire mentioned here or did I dream it?


here it is, it is a letter from wayne watne to mrs Gregoire.  now, is this lady related to the ones in the sandra cantu case?   

Dear Mrs. Gregoire;

I met with both yourself & Doug Sutherland several times during my tenure at the Lummi Tribe where I was the Timber Fish & Wildlife manager for 3 years.

My concern is that there is little accountability or validation of tribal catch (and now it is hunting as well as fishing).

To keep this brief I will give a short example of the problem as I see it... If you would like to see more details you can have your staff contact me.

1)The tribe are the fishers...
2)Tribal fisher sell to a) tribal seafood plants or b) non-tribal seafood plants. Non-tribal seafood plants are totally dependent upon tribal fish supplies in order to stay in business.
3)Seafood plants are in the business of selling fish... the more they sell the more they make. There is incentive (especially if the only supplier is pushing the envelope and there is no other supplier)to "fudge the numbers". It is real easy to make records show 100# of 5# salmon (20 fish) look like 10- 10# salmon on a fish ticket when it is in the best interest of those involved and there is no-one looking over your shoulder.
4)Tribal catch is then reported to the tribe who in turn reports it to the NW Indian Fish Commission.
5)Finally the numbers (that were not subsitance & ceremonial, over the bank sales, and "barter material")are reported to the state.

There is a lot of room to "adjust" the numbers to see that fishers are entitled to harvest more. It seems odd that the Lummi Tribe ESA coordinator is also the harvest manager... or does it? If the fish are harvested "just enough" to ensure they remain on the ESA, then the Tribe continues to recieve Millions of taxpayer dollars.

I have been involved in all aspects of salmon fishing from sport to commercial to aquaculture and as a fisheries biologist in two states. Millions of taxpayers dollars are going toward salmon recovery plans, shared strategy, SRFBD grants, improving fish passage, and habitat restoration. I was there at the signing of Shared Strategy with Bill Ruckelhouse, Billy Frank & yourself. Not one time was there any mention of ensuring fishery harvests are accurately accounted for by ALL user groups.

I know the Tribes are in the drivers seat on fisheries "co-manangement" and also that the Services are to ensure salmon are protected under the ESA. I find it strange that NOAA Fisheries who has oversight over salmon stocks sits in the same building where US Department of Commerce and NOAA Fisheries provide oversight & training for the HACCP (Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point)Seafood Inspection Program which has "food safety audits" as key component of the program. Why do they not do that for salmnon harvests as well... the fish are listed under ESA and they are to provide for salmon recovery.

With Federal Habitat Conservation Plans, ESA listed salmon (and now steelhead... after how many years of salmon recovery?), Millions being spent on habitat restoration I find it hard to believe that there are no Third Pary reviews of Tribal harvests. There are several well documented cases where ESA listed salmon stocks have been overharvested (Makah winter chinook troll fishery a couple of years ago, the recent harvest of 30 spring chinook for the salmon ceremony and another 25 illegally taken from the Nooksack River where the SF Nooksack has a population of +/- 100 spring chinook salmon returning annually). This alone should serve as evidence for the need to ensure that the State & Services obtain accurate information. The taxpayers of the State & United States deserve accountability if they are to continue to pay millions for salmon restoration.

Habitat is the key to recovery... if the salmon can get there.

Thank you,

Wayne S. Watne
xxxxxxxxx I have the phone #
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« Reply #186 on: July 16, 2009, 10:59:18 PM »



I love your avi.   Thanks  I'm a real religious type, it's what I do.  I am religious as well
 
But I also know in the world, known as the community where I live, evil in guises lurks.  Our children are so vulnerable.  Some adults have taken their innocene of mind and body and destroyed it.  God bless you and all who care about the children and one another.


You are so right about that.  Evil is everywhere.  I just want Lindsey to be returned to her family. She's just a little girl with her whole life ahead of her, too young to have to deal with such evil.

God Bless Lindsey

I pray for her family everyday and hope she will be found soon.
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« Reply #187 on: July 16, 2009, 11:30:10 PM »

did you see my question in the other thread?
Was the last name Gregoire mentioned here or did I dream it?


here it is, it is a letter from wayne watne to mrs Gregoire.  now, is this lady related to the ones in the sandra cantu case?   

Dear Mrs. Gregoire;

I met with both yourself & Doug Sutherland several times during my tenure at the Lummi Tribe where I was the Timber Fish & Wildlife manager for 3 years.

My concern is that there is little accountability or validation of tribal catch (and now it is hunting as well as fishing).

To keep this brief I will give a short example of the problem as I see it... If you would like to see more details you can have your staff contact me.

1)The tribe are the fishers...
2)Tribal fisher sell to a) tribal seafood plants or b) non-tribal seafood plants. Non-tribal seafood plants are totally dependent upon tribal fish supplies in order to stay in business.
3)Seafood plants are in the business of selling fish... the more they sell the more they make. There is incentive (especially if the only supplier is pushing the envelope and there is no other supplier)to "fudge the numbers". It is real easy to make records show 100# of 5# salmon (20 fish) look like 10- 10# salmon on a fish ticket when it is in the best interest of those involved and there is no-one looking over your shoulder.
4)Tribal catch is then reported to the tribe who in turn reports it to the NW Indian Fish Commission.
5)Finally the numbers (that were not subsitance & ceremonial, over the bank sales, and "barter material")are reported to the state.

There is a lot of room to "adjust" the numbers to see that fishers are entitled to harvest more. It seems odd that the Lummi Tribe ESA coordinator is also the harvest manager... or does it? If the fish are harvested "just enough" to ensure they remain on the ESA, then the Tribe continues to recieve Millions of taxpayer dollars.

I have been involved in all aspects of salmon fishing from sport to commercial to aquaculture and as a fisheries biologist in two states. Millions of taxpayers dollars are going toward salmon recovery plans, shared strategy, SRFBD grants, improving fish passage, and habitat restoration. I was there at the signing of Shared Strategy with Bill Ruckelhouse, Billy Frank & yourself. Not one time was there any mention of ensuring fishery harvests are accurately accounted for by ALL user groups.

I know the Tribes are in the drivers seat on fisheries "co-manangement" and also that the Services are to ensure salmon are protected under the ESA. I find it strange that NOAA Fisheries who has oversight over salmon stocks sits in the same building where US Department of Commerce and NOAA Fisheries provide oversight & training for the HACCP (Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point)Seafood Inspection Program which has "food safety audits" as key component of the program. Why do they not do that for salmnon harvests as well... the fish are listed under ESA and they are to provide for salmon recovery.

With Federal Habitat Conservation Plans, ESA listed salmon (and now steelhead... after how many years of salmon recovery?), Millions being spent on habitat restoration I find it hard to believe that there are no Third Pary reviews of Tribal harvests. There are several well documented cases where ESA listed salmon stocks have been overharvested (Makah winter chinook troll fishery a couple of years ago, the recent harvest of 30 spring chinook for the salmon ceremony and another 25 illegally taken from the Nooksack River where the SF Nooksack has a population of +/- 100 spring chinook salmon returning annually). This alone should serve as evidence for the need to ensure that the State & Services obtain accurate information. The taxpayers of the State & United States deserve accountability if they are to continue to pay millions for salmon restoration.

Habitat is the key to recovery... if the salmon can get there.

Thank you,

Wayne S. Watne
xxxxxxxxx I have the phone #

WTH???
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« Reply #188 on: July 16, 2009, 11:45:23 PM »

Quote
My concern is that there is little accountability or validation of tribal catch (and now it is hunting as well as fishing).

To keep this brief I will give a short example of the problem as I see it... If you would like to see more details you can have your staff contact me.

1)The tribe are the fishers...
2)Tribal fisher sell to a) tribal seafood plants or b) non-tribal seafood plants. Non-tribal seafood plants are totally dependent upon tribal fish supplies in order to stay in business.
3)Seafood plants are in the business of selling fish... the more they sell the more they make. There is incentive (especially if the only supplier is pushing the envelope and there is no other supplier)to "fudge the numbers". It is real easy to make records show 100# of 5# salmon (20 fish) look like 10- 10# salmon on a fish ticket when it is in the best interest of those involved and there is no-one looking over your shoulder.
4)Tribal catch is then reported to the tribe who in turn reports it to the NW Indian Fish Commission.
5)Finally the numbers (that were not subsitance & ceremonial, over the bank sales, and "barter material")are reported to the state.

why do i have issues with this???
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« Reply #189 on: July 16, 2009, 11:54:32 PM »

Quote
My concern is that there is little accountability or validation of tribal catch (and now it is hunting as well as fishing).

To keep this brief I will give a short example of the problem as I see it... If you would like to see more details you can have your staff contact me.

1)The tribe are the fishers...
2)Tribal fisher sell to a) tribal seafood plants or b) non-tribal seafood plants. Non-tribal seafood plants are totally dependent upon tribal fish supplies in order to stay in business.
3)Seafood plants are in the business of selling fish... the more they sell the more they make. There is incentive (especially if the only supplier is pushing the envelope and there is no other supplier)to "fudge the numbers". It is real easy to make records show 100# of 5# salmon (20 fish) look like 10- 10# salmon on a fish ticket when it is in the best interest of those involved and there is no-one looking over your shoulder.
4)Tribal catch is then reported to the tribe who in turn reports it to the NW Indian Fish Commission.
5)Finally the numbers (that were not subsitance & ceremonial, over the bank sales, and "barter material")are reported to the state.

why do i have issues with this???

well I don't know 
why do you?

but he seems to think he is God over the fish 
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« Reply #190 on: July 17, 2009, 12:04:21 AM »

where is the post by ww where he says about the stars and astronomy
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« Reply #191 on: July 17, 2009, 12:14:37 AM »

The Lummi Indian Tribe and Life with the Salmon

Puget Sound, Washington
Contact: Kurt Russo
Lummi Treaty Protection Task Force
Tel: (360) 
Fax: (360)
Puget Sound, WA

Scope: Rural

Project type: Salmon conservation and restoration

" Fish is culture, and culture, fish."
The Lummi Tribe of Native Americans has resided in northwest Washington State at the northern end of Puget Sound for 12,000 years. Throughout their existence, the Lummi people have relied on fishing as the mainstay of their culture and their survival. They designed the commonly used fishing methods of the reef net, the weir, and the purse seine, and lived in villages along the mainland and throughout the San Juan islands. Ceremonies and legends related to salmon and salmon fishing, with names such as The First Salmon Ceremony and The Tale of the Salmon Woman have been passed down through generations and provide evidence of the sacred relationship between the Lummi history and culture and the salmon.

Today, the Lummi people consist of over 3,500 enrolled tribal members and primarily live on or around a 20,000 acre reservation. Fishing and gathering of shellfish is the primary means of subsistence for most of the Lummi. Their livelihood and culture is based on fishing, and has been so since their existence as a tribe for the past 12,000 years.

This critical economic and cultural resource, however, is presently severely threatened with extinction. During the past ten years the salmon stocks have drastically declined. Once so thick that you could "walk on their backs" as legends say, two of the four species of salmon are now being considered for the national Endangered Species list.

This decline is attributed to accelerated logging in the headwater areas of the Nooksack Basin, the erection of small hydroelectric dams on salmon streams, ground and water pollution from industry and agriculture, the decline of wetland areas, and the rapid and irresponsible development of the lowland areas. As a result of such actions, the North Fork of the Nooksack River has dropped over eight feet in the past ten years, over 60% of the salmon streams have been destroyed due to logging practices, and the critical portions of the South Fork of the Nooksack River average over 70 degrees F. which is a lethal temperature for salmon. A more recent threat to the species is the growing "private property rights" movement that decries the regulations on private lands that were passed to protect the salmon streams.

The Lummi people have been dramatically confronted by this salmon decline, and have formed a united front that plays an extremely important role in maintaining the fish stocks in the region and responsibly managing and using the threatened salmon resource. The Lummi carry this out by maintaining the largest Native American fishing fleet in the Pacific Northwest, which boasts of the most extensive fisheries protection program in the region. This program enlists the services of over 150 highly qualified tribal fisheries technicians and specialists, many of whom were trained at the Lummi School of Aquaculture or, more recently, the Lummi Community College. The Lummi Tribe's Fisheries Department has an annual budget of over $3,000,000 and operates one of the most successful and productive salmon hatcheries in the United States, releasing over 17,000,000 salmon fingerlings each year.

The overall goal of the fisheries program is to provide for the sustainable management of the fisheries stocks, including the protection of salmon spawning habitat in locations forty to sixty miles from the Lummi reservation. Fisheries staff take careful action to fulfill their mission by monitoring of the health of these streams, conducting salmon counts in many of the small river tributaries near the Nooksack Basin, and monitoring the return and harvest of the salmon.

As the salmon population continues to be threatened, the Lummi are currently working by increasing the productivity of their hatchery operation, actively pursuing the establishment of new and stricter laws to protect salmon habitat, and engaging in an aggressive public education campaign to better inform the public of the importance of the salmon in creating sustainable livelihoods for many of the Washington state citizens. The Lummi are also represented on the International Salmon Commission that seeks to restrain the activities of the off-shore drift net fishery.

The actions of the Lummi tribe provide a model for the involvement of indigenous peoples in the planning and management of our existing natural resources. By actively taking part in both local and international efforts, the Lummi are forcing the current industrialized society to listen to and account for traditional values and management methods with regards to natural resources. Sound policy changes are needed that discount present actions according to their impact on future generations, and often indigenous peoples are the true experts on such policy due to their understanding of generational time. To the Lummi, overfishing is not an option because it won't last into the future and if fishing is gone, their identity and culture will disappear.

According to the Lummi, the Great Salmon Woman has taught them that if they take only the amount of salmon needed and protect the birthing areas of the salmon (who are hatched, go to sea for four years, and then return to their birth spot to spawn and die), the salmon will continue to exist and thrive. With this understanding, the Lummi people continue to work toward sustainable management of our current resources, and to educate the people of today in the management methods they have been using for thousands of years.

Special thanks to Kurt Russo and the information gathered from his paper "Swimming Upstream: A Way of Life on the River."
Case Study Source: Sustainability in Action: Profiles of Community Initiatives Across the United States-- American Forum for Global Education. 1995

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« Reply #192 on: July 17, 2009, 12:17:08 AM »

where is the post by ww where he says about the stars and astronomy
posted by dd
post by wayne watne

Wayne Watne

This is awesome timing for such an emphasis on Astronomy! If you really want to seee something amazing about the stars and really get an understanding of how incredibly large some of the stars are, how big the universe is, and the magnitude of the distances between some of the galaxies and earth check out the CD "Indescribable" by Louie Giglio... it will blow your socks off! They are available online... another is "How Great is Our God" also by Louie Giglio. Believer in God or not, the two CD's do the most amazing job I've ever seen to put the size of the cosmos into a perspective that most can grasp the imensity of the stars!

Wayne Watne, McCleary, WA (Sent Monday, January 05, 2009 10:40 PM)

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/ ... 30900.aspx
 
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« Reply #193 on: July 17, 2009, 12:22:03 AM »

hmmm I am remembering something else then, somewhere wayne watne I thought it was him says something about the taste, smell, sight, hearing, touching. in other words the 5 senses. 
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« Reply #194 on: July 17, 2009, 12:35:12 AM »

I can't get this to come up any more -- that's where the above came from.
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/ ... 30900.aspx
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« Reply #195 on: July 17, 2009, 12:40:34 AM »

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Why should Christians care for the environment?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb_EsIss1W4
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« Reply #196 on: July 17, 2009, 12:48:58 AM »

Sorry, missing the point.
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« Reply #197 on: July 17, 2009, 04:24:20 AM »

Chemosh - Lord of the Moabites
Chemosh was a god of the Moabites
 "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god." 

 his cult was imported to Jerusalem by King Solomon (1 Kings 11:7).

 King Josiah destroyed the Israelite branch of the cult (2 Kings 23). 
 
 the Moabite Stone or Mesha Stele, was a monument bearing an inscription commemorating the c. 860 B.C. endeavors of King Mesha to overthrow the Israelite dominion of Moab. 

Moabite Stone contains the oldest existing inscription of a Semitic alphabet. 
 "And Chemosh drove him before my sight." (2 Kings 3:5)   

Moabite Stone (Mesha Stele)
  Within the text the inscriber mentions Chemosh twelve times.  He also names Mesha as the son of Chemosh.  Mesha made it clear that he understood Chemosh's anger and the reason he allowed the Moabites to fall under the rule of Israel.  The high place on which Mesha oriented the stone was dedicated to Chemosh as well.     

Blood Sacrifice for Chemosh
  In 2 Kings 3:27 we find that human sacrifice was part of the rites of Chemosh. 
such rites were commonplace in the various Canaanite religious cults, including those of the Baals and of Moloch. 
Chemosh and other Canaanite gods such as the Baals, Moloch, Thammuz, and Baalzebub were all personifications of the sun, or of the sun's rays.  They represented the fierce, inescapable, and often consuming heat of the summer sun (a necessary but deadly element in life; analogs may be found in Aztec sun worship).   

 Chemosh's role in the Moabite Stone inscription is analogous to that of Yahweh in the book of Kings.

(1.00) Jer 48:46
 Moab, you are doomed! 1  You people who worship Chemosh will be destroyed. Your sons will be taken away captive. Your daughters will be carried away into exile. 2
 
(0.83) Num 21:29
 Woe to you, Moab. You are ruined, O people of Chemosh! 1  He has made his sons fugitives, and his daughters the prisoners of King Sihon of the Amorites.
 
(0.83) Jdg 11:24
 You have the right to take what Chemosh your god gives you, but we will take the land of all whom the Lord our God has driven out before us. 1
 
(0.83) Jer 48:7
 “Moab, you trust in the things you do and in your riches. So you too will be conquered. Your god Chemosh 1  will go into exile 2  along with his priests and his officials.
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« Reply #198 on: July 17, 2009, 04:29:02 AM »

(1.00) 1Ki 11:7
 Furthermore, 1  on the hill east of Jerusalem 2  Solomon built a high place 3  for the detestable Moabite god Chemosh 4  and for the detestable Ammonite god Milcom. 5
 
(0.80) 1Ki 11:33
I am taking the kingdom from him 1  because they have 2  abandoned me and worshiped the Sidonian goddess Astarte, the Moabite god Chemosh, and the Ammonite god Milcom. They have not followed my instructions 3  by doing what I approve and obeying my rules and regulations, like Solomon’s father David did. 4
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« Reply #199 on: July 17, 2009, 04:30:15 AM »

(1.00) Jer 48:13
 The people of Moab will be disappointed by their god Chemosh. They will be as disappointed as the people of Israel were when they put their trust in the calf god at Bethel. 1
 
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