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Author Topic: The Weirdos Connected To The Churches & Strange Goings-On  (Read 125003 times)
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doubledecker
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« Reply #140 on: July 16, 2009, 01:22:32 AM »

DD

Has any of your research implied that either Josh or Lindsey was affiliated with Havest Vision Ministries?

Could you please direct me to your posts that expand on the negative aspects of this ministry?

Thank You.

Janet

++++++++++

Harvest Vision Ministries

http://www.harvestvisionministries.org/page/page/6528584.htm


Examiner - July 1, 2009

Lindsey’s Girl Scout troop leader, Becky Spalding said, “I had to tell her to be quiet because she was laughing all the time. It’s very unbelievable. You see this on the news, but you never know anyone who it’s happened to.”

Wayne Watne, a member of the Evergreen Christian Community Church and representative of Harvest Vision Ministries said prayers for Lindsey’s return.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2009m7d1-Emotional-vigil-held-for-missing-Washington-girl-Lindsey-Baum




all the posts about this craziness are in this thread for the most part and other than that I don't have time to look for them. 

I don't know if lindsey or josh spent any time with any other church than the evergreen and the elma one and I was told that lindsey only went there a couple of times that she did not "attend" church there like the paper makes it sound she did.
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mamacrazy30
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« Reply #141 on: July 16, 2009, 01:27:38 AM »

my eyes are crossing....i will never stop..bbt an angelic monkey
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OMG  thats soooo Anthony.  (credits to miss Mae)
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« Reply #142 on: July 16, 2009, 01:28:08 AM »

Possibly the best way to explain it would be to start at about page 4 reading all the posts with all the links, etc.

Sister

The beliefs of Harvest Vision Ministries may imply a cult classification from Christian perspective but ... what has this got to do with the disappearance of Lindsey Baum?  Does this ministry have a history that indicates illegal acts involving children.

I am just trying to comprehend what connection exists between the "Christian" ministries in McCleary and the disappearance of Lindsey.  When I read the Harvest Vision Ministries'  website ... there are no red flags.

What am I missing.

Janet
 

 
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #143 on: July 16, 2009, 01:31:35 AM »

My 62 year old eye lids are closing.

Good Night for the last time.

 

Janet
10:30 PM PT

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Sister
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« Reply #144 on: July 16, 2009, 01:46:48 AM »

Hidden within many "Christian" religions, are people who are evil.  No denomination is immune from this, at least that I know of.  I do not know of any denomination that has not had their fair share of SOs. We are looking to see if the SOs associated in the areas Lindsey frequented are associated with any of the churches.  We are looking to see if there is any connection between folks that have an interest in the occult or weird practices within their churches are associated in any direct or indirect way with Lindsey or any of the other children.  We are specifically looking for these things.  We are not bashing any church, no matter the denomination.  But just because the "written mission" of a church meets the smell test, doesn't mean it passes the smell test.  Let me be clear and then I am not going to address this again until this child is found, I work with the homeless, I counsel addicts, I am a volunteer chaplain in a State prison.  I do this to help people.  The evil people cannot tarnish these ministries.  There is not a rock or a person that should be passed over because they have a "Christian" label on them.  We are all here to try and find Lindsey and I deeply pray that we can help.
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doubledecker
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« Reply #145 on: July 16, 2009, 01:58:14 AM »

Photo of Michael Feeser?



hmmm are those moles on his face?  if they are they moved?  but certainly looks like him, could this be a brother?

this is the sex offender michael david feeser, photo taken from his sex offender registry.  where did your photo come from. 

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doubledecker
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« Reply #146 on: July 16, 2009, 01:59:25 AM »

hhmmm your feeser photo did not post in above post.  well tomorrow I will copy and get it on here, right now I am falling asleep ugh. nite
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doubledecker
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« Reply #147 on: July 16, 2009, 02:05:38 AM »

Possibly the best way to explain it would be to start at about page 4 reading all the posts with all the links, etc.

Sister

The beliefs of Harvest Vision Ministries may imply a cult classification from Christian perspective but ... what has this got to do with the disappearance of Lindsey Baum?  Does this ministry have a history that indicates illegal acts involving children.

I am just trying to comprehend what connection exists between the "Christian" ministries in McCleary and the disappearance of Lindsey.  When I read the Harvest Vision Ministries'  website ... there are no red flags.

What am I missing.

Janet
 

 

the only church I am talking about is the ELMA new life center.  I haven't stated anything at all about any other churches..YET LOL  I might if I hear the same stuff is going on. 
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« Reply #148 on: July 16, 2009, 02:09:52 AM »

I think I will go discuss this elsewhere, I can see it is becoming a problem here.
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« Reply #149 on: July 16, 2009, 02:17:50 AM »

dd, I hope you will reconsider going elsewhere.  This is what this thread if for.  Please don't go.
We knew it would be controversial.  I say we stay focused.
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« Reply #150 on: July 16, 2009, 02:21:15 AM »

did you see my question in the other thread?
Was the last name Gregoire mentioned here or did I dream it?
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« Reply #151 on: July 16, 2009, 03:35:47 PM »

Hi DD,

I feel like I am in good company with you.  You are really operating outside the box and I like that. 

Okay, if there's any possible connection, here's what I first found when I located WW's Tonasket property.  And now since we are talking about occult-type stuff, when I pulled up the actual map of WW's Tonasket property, there was the name Moonscape Road going directly through the middle of the three parcels owned by him.  When I googled the road, Moonscape, in or around Tonasket, it didn't come up in the results.  I don't know if this means anything, but that property is way out in the middle of nowhere and the name Moonscape that's clearly printed on the tax assessors map does not come up in a search that I could find.

Great work DD.  Wish I was in McCleary now, poking around. 

Blessings to you,
Kim
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KimC
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« Reply #152 on: July 16, 2009, 04:31:15 PM »

Quote
DD wrote:

I am not sure how this has anything to do with what I am seeing about that church.  All churches or other groups who try to help people have people who cannot do what is expected of them, be it a church, NA/AA/, someone going to counseling etc.  No it should not reflect on the person trying to help them if the person going for help just keeps on doing whatever.  But this is not the case with this church.  The leaders are kicking people to heal them, yelling Bam BAm Bam, having teenagers knocked out in a boxing ring, cursing people, asking that the cancer out of one person hops on the "bad" people, trying to hide people from the law, telling members they are the rulers and judges of the region, pulling in as many kids as they can to watch this crap, and having their members who are on drugs influenced by this.  This is a ticking time bomb.  This is the kind of place where whackos end up and add "religion" to their whackiness. Jos went to this church and lindsey was there at least once 3 weeks before she went missing.  some nutjob in this place could be responsible.  And if the nubjob is really whaced you have to look into what and how they might be thinking, therefore you have to figure out what the doctine is they are being taugh.  that is all I am saying and I have seen this in many cases wehere the killerst believe they are following what God wants them too.


Okay DD, I am just going to free associate here and I hope somehow it helps.

1.  The leaders are kicking people to heal them.  Bam, Bam, Bam.
Okay, well to me this is out and out brainwashing through torture in the name of God.  If they are doing this with children, in a public place, with adults around, the kids end up thinking this is acceptable perhaps.  The adults who stay on, the witnesses to this abuse, are somehow accepting of this because....................I am not sure.  Are these congregants the ones hiding from something.  If they keep their mouths shut, and allow these practices to continue, they will stay safe.  Status quo.  They don't get put out, they have a home as long as they play by the rules.  I don't know what this tells us about doctrine though.
Sister...... TomikosMom.....do you know of any scripture that could be used and so twisted as to cause this type of action?  Now, think outside what YOU believe.  Try to think as someone who is definitely on a power trip for some sort of perverted result.  What scripture could they twist around to suit their agenda.  We really need you on this.  It is only when we think as they think that we will arrive at what DD has been getting at.  If we know the scripture/doctrine it may bring us closer to discovering what they are doing or planning next.

2.  Having teenagers knocked out in a boxing ring.
Well, I am thinking that these leaders are facilitating some sort of release for these kids.  Remember now, I am just free associating.  Teens are a mess, in my experience.  Hormones.  Horney.  Identity stuff, growing up stuff without much leadership and love.  They Want to hit something or someone.  Maybe these leaders are providing some sort of vehicle by which these kids can vent their frustrations, anger, hatred.  You know, a lot of teens say they hate their parents.  Perhaps the leaders make it okay for these teens to vent the specific rage toward their parents.  I have no idea since I have never observed this.  But, I am thinking that in some way they are actually fueling violent behavior against a loved one, perhaps, to cause separateness from the parents or loved ones.  Perhaps this is why we heard about some abuse that Jose perpetrated against Lindsey.  Maybe this was the very thing being taught to these kids.  Remember, just talking to get everyone thinking a little differently.  Trying to jog someone else's ideas here.

3. Cursing People
Again, the leaders are making it okay to be angry, to hate perhaps.  And they are basically teaching hate begets hate. 
Hmmmmm.......perhaps these kids are in training for some eventual ritual or event where kids are actually beating up other kids or worse?  Perhaps this is part of the doctrine? The ultimate Good vs. Evil.  The showdown.  Perhaps the good kids are the ones who're missing and being kept somewhere.  I know, it's unbelievable to even think.  But IF this could be a possibility, then perhaps the kids at this church are in training, combat training to some degree.

4. Asking that cancer hop out of one person and into a "bad" person.
Okay, so they definitely have this good/bad or good/evil thing going on.  Most churches do.  Most of us have this experience, if we read and learn what the Bible teaches.  Whether these kids think they are on the side of the good or the bad doesn't really matter much.  What matters is that whatever they are doing is accepted.  If the kids are the victims of this abuse, they will become the abuser most likely given the right circumstances.  If the kids are being brainwashed, then they will still, most likely, mimic what they've been taught by their leaders.

5.  Telling the members that they are the rulers and judges of the region.
Dang!  I am unclear if the leaders are telling the members that they (the leaders) are the rulers and judges of the region or if the leaders are telling the members that they (the members) are the rulers and judges of the region.  I would love to know which it is.  This gives us two scenarios though.
     A.  The leaders are the rulers and judges of the region.
Well, if these members believe this, then they will faciliate whatever judgement comes to whomever. 
     B.  The members are the rulers and judges of the region.
Well, this is even more dangerous because there are apparently a bunch of members who do not operate with their full faculties and some do not subscribe to the same human and moral rules as the rest of society.  So, the leaders give the members permission to rule and judge.  This feeds their appetite for only God knows what.  They not only become even more loyal, but they become more free to perpetrate their insatiable desires on whomever. 

I know this seems absolutely unbelievable.  But, perhaps if we could all contribute here, in this spirit (I know it's hard) we can either reach a dead end or perhaps we may stumble upon something here.  If the doctrine is Bible-based, we may be able to get somewhere.  If the church is occult-based (Godless in reality but pretends Godliness) then I don't know cause I am not that familiar with the occult.

But, I think it's safe to say that if what DD describes is really happening, she may be right.  There may be a chance to bring some children home.

Oh, something just flew through my mind.  I AM WONDERING IF THIS HAS ALREADY GOTTEN OUT OF CONTROL????  BECAUSE SO MANY CHILDREN ARE MISSING THIS MONTH.....OVER THE LAST 3  OR 4 MONTHS.  DO YOU THINK THAT SOMEONE OR MULTIPLE SOMEONES MAY BE TAKING MORE CHILDREN THAN THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO?  LIKE THEIR APPETITES FOR WHAT'S TO COME IS ESCALATING?

Okay, let's help DD.  Gosh, I hope this approach makes sense to you.  Just trying to "hear" what DD is asking and trying to move in the best direction that will help us find out what's really going on.

Blessings,
Kim

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« Reply #153 on: July 16, 2009, 04:55:15 PM »

Kim, will be happy to provide some scripture references that are frequently twisted.  As the book of Revelation scares many people, if a person seems to have great insight into it, some people are in awe, consequently it is easy to manipulate.  Additionally, many of the prophets from the Hebrew scriptures are easy to use to manipulate, especially when plucked out.  DD research is important because she provides the buzz words, i.e. harp and bowl, which has meaning in scripture as well in the occult.  Sorry can't stay tonight, good to see you here DD.  Blessings.
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« Reply #154 on: July 16, 2009, 04:58:22 PM »

I think I will go discuss this elsewhere, I can see it is becoming a problem here.

I am glad you didn't leave forever...you are awesome at this.  Please stay and help Lindsey.
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« Reply #155 on: July 16, 2009, 06:25:41 PM »

SATANIC CULTS: EX-FBI AGENT FEARS FOR SOURCES
By James Wallace P-I Reporter
THURSDAY, May 4, 1989
Section: News, Page: B1
An ex-FBI agent who claims there are satanic burial sites in Mason County said yesterday his informant who knows details about the killings is afraid to come forward because he fears for his life.

The informant knows of seven burial sites in Mason County, including one that contains the bodies of at least 20 people, Ted Gunderson said. But the informant is not willing to talk with authorities about the murders.

"If people talk, they die," Gunderson said.

He said an Olympia man was murdered in 1987 in Grays Harbor County because he was helping him uncover evidence about satanic cults in this state.

"There are extensive satanic activities taking place in Washington state, particularly along the coast," Gunderson said.

But law enforcement officials said there is no evidence to support any of the claims being made by Gunderson about bodies buried in Mason County or satanic activity there. And authorities in Grays Harbor County said they investigated the murder of the Olympia man and found no evidence linking his death to a satanic cult.

Gunderson said he is trying to find someone in Mason County with knowledge of the grave sites who is willing to sign a search warrant that law enforcement officials will need to dig up the bodies.

Only then, Gunderson said, is he willing to sit down with authorities and tell them what he knows.

He said he has not personally seen the burial sites, but he has been told of their location by his informant. He said he does not have any information about the victims.

"These people have been killed over a period of years," he said.

His comments came in a telephone interview from his office in Santa Monica, Calif. Since leaving the FBI in 1979, he said, he has investigated satanic activities around the country. Gunderson spent nearly 30 years with the FBI and retired as senior agent in charge of the bureau's office in Los Angeles.

He caused a stir in Mason County this week after he appeared on the syndicated "Geraldo" television talk show, which discussed the recent cult- like killings of at least 15 people at a ranch in Mexico.

"The next burial ground that we will learn about will be in Mason County, Washington," Gunderson told host Geraldo Rivera.

In the interview yesterday, Gunderson said he has been investigating satanic activities in Washington state since the early 1980s. He said he has many "reliable" sources in the state who have helped him. Some of those sources are working from inside the cults, he said.

Gunderson said he became interested in satanic activity when he investigated the case of Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald, a Green Beret captain convicted of killing his pregnant wife and two daughters in 1970. MacDonald claimed a hippie cult killed his family.

He said he also worked as an investigator with Maury Terry, who wrote "The Ultimate Evil," a book about the Son of Sam serial murders in New York.

Gunderson said he is reluctant to give authorities in Mason County details of what he knows until he finds a witness willing to step forward.

"If I turn this over to the wrong law enforcement officials, I could blow the whole thing," he said, explaining there are members of satanic cults throughout society, including police agencies.

"This element has infiltrated every level of society," he said. "It's big, and involves heavy-duty, intelligent people . . . doctors, lawyers, prosecutors, police, airline pilots . . . every walk of life has been infiltrated."

He pointed to what has happened in Thurston County, where authorities are investigating satanic-type rituals and have charged three men, including a former deputy sheriff, in a sex-abuse case.
He said hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people are involved in satanic activities in this state.

"Their best weapons are fear and secrecy," Gunderson said of the cults.

Gunderson said a "hit man," who was working for a satanic cult drug network, operated out of Shelton in Mason County for a time. The man was arrested last year in California in connection with two contract killings in that state, he said. Gunderson declined to name the man.

"I have enough heat on me now," he said. "I don't want his buddies coming after me. They have come after me in the past."

Mason County Sheriff Bob Holter declined to go into detail about any of the claims made by Gunderson.

"There is no evidence that there is any validity to anything that he has said," the sheriff said.

Gunderson said the hit man likely was responsible for the death of Larry Gearon in Grays Harbor County in 1987.

Gearon was killed because of what he knew about satanic activity in this state, Gunderson said.

"He was working for us. He was discovered," Gunderson said.

Gearon, 38, of Olympia, was found dead March 12, 1987, just off U.S. 12 about two miles north of Malone in Grays Harbor County. He had been shot several times in the head.

Gunderson contacted the sheriff's office shortly after Gearon's body was discovered and told officials the death was linked to satanic cults.

Grays Harbor sheriff's Sgt. Rick Scott said he and Inspector Mike Whelan spent much of April and May of 1987 pursuing Gunderson's claims.

But Scott said Gunderson failed to provide substantive details and claimed to have "an informant" who was supplying him with the information.

Gunderson refused to name his informant, or provide specific details that could have corroborated his story, Scott said.

"If Mr. Gunderson today has any further information we're again asking him to provide it, if it even exists," he added.
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doubledecker
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« Reply #156 on: July 16, 2009, 06:28:54 PM »

found dead March 12, 1987, just off U.S. 12 about two miles north of Malone in Grays Harbor County. He had been shot several times in the head.


Look on the map, where this is.  Is this an old dumping ground area for victims.  What about Shelton.  These people are all over and have been in that area sinse at least the 80's. 

There are people in the Elma church who have been involved in Satanism(I am not saying all Satanists are this way, this is just the term used to describe these groups of whacko's) for years if not raised in it all their life.  It has been alive and well for a long time in these areas.  And from what I am being told, it is still alive and well. 
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doubledecker
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« Reply #157 on: July 16, 2009, 06:30:56 PM »

I wonder if Gunderson is still alive.  seems he was in santa monica, Calif. 
I will try to find out. He should be OLD by now.  retired in 1979 after 30 years so he would have been at least 50 then?  if he started at 20.  so he would be 90 now, most likely he is not living.

Who has his research.  Maybe someone ask maury terry?  is he still living?  I know someone to ask, I will ask.
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« Reply #158 on: July 16, 2009, 06:35:27 PM »

Good question.  Who has his research?
Glad you're here.  I'll be back in a couple of days.
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« Reply #159 on: July 16, 2009, 07:13:32 PM »

Thank-you for that interesting article, I have no doubt in my mind that these Satanic cults are around. I have followed a lot of cases, I'm not good at researching and that like you and some other members are. The day I logged on and read about Lindsey which was right at the beginning, I became ill, can't explain just got a very sick feeling come over me. That has not happened in all the cases I have read about before. It has been bothering me why do I feel that way about Lindsey, I think you are on to something big.
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