The Weirdos Connected To The Churches & Strange Goings-On

[doubledecker]

Thank-you for that interesting article, I have no doubt in my mind that these Satanic cults are around. I have followed a lot of cases, I'm not good at researching and that like you and some other members are. The day I logged on and read about Lindsey which was right at the beginning, I became ill, can't explain just got a very sick feeling come over me. That has not happened in all the cases I have read about before. It has been bothering me why do I feel that way about Lindsey, I think you are on to something big.

I try not to read and research too many cases because there is just never enough time to read and research all of them, but for some reason I was just looking through the cases and this one just really said "read me".  at that time there was really nothing on the board to read, but I felt so drawn to this case I started digging.  here we are now.  At first I kept thinking why this case, and I kept looking at it and just could not find anything that would suggest anything like this, but here we are, it is surfacing enough I have to look at this stuff.  so I am. 

today I stumbled onto this article and thought hmmm this is not the first time someone has been investigating this stuff up there in that area.  so we do have a bit of info.. look where they dumped that one guys body...right where I was looking on the map yesterday, right there by the fire, etc.  and the killing was out of mason or thurtston county but they dump him over in grays harbor county south of Elma.  I wonder who killed this guy. 

so we have one possible clue. 
then somewhere there are suppose to be 20 bodies in 1989 over in mason county... so now we have a connection there so we might look at the map up there.

then we have thurston county over to the east of grays harbor so we look on the map there too.  now we are 20 years later from this article, did the group dwindle away?  did it grow?  did it stay the same? what?  from what I am hearing from the locals this group is alive and well, I just had no idea it was that old and spread through so many counties, well now here is this artice.  hmmm

well I have been told by locals this satanic(for a better word) ritualistic stuff has been going on for a long time.  one of the people I'm told of was involved for at least that long so they were probably involved back when this group was investigated in 1989.  so is it the same group still up there?  sounds like it might be. 

if michael feeser the sex offender really was involved in the stuff out on jim mullin creek, then how many people does he know involved.  is he still involved?  how do you get out of this stuff and still live in the same area.  I would think you don't.  so is there anyone up in that area who is going to be willing to talk about this stuff or at least get some info to someone so they at least know where they might go look or who to look at just in case this group is still active and IF they had anything to do with lindsey's disappearance.  I really don't know what to think here. 

we need to get maps out of all three counties and start looking for a mountain top with other words around it that might have spiritual/biblical/ etc meanings.  we need to look for creeks that join together and if an island in the middle the better.  words on maps , numbers, that would be symbolic of certain things.  words whose meanings mean something inline with killing or spiritual meanings. 

then you have to wonder, WHY jim mullin creek, so do we go to where the creeks join together.  is there a place up there with two creeks coming together?  would that be at the word FORK.  is this why we are all seeing the word FORKS/FORK popping up.  so lets look for all the FORKS 

also words when rearranged that would spell out somethig else

[doubledecker]

look on the map.  highway 12, Malone, the area where the body was dumped of the guy who was killed way back then.... to the left is Delezene where the fire was. 

look there at Malone and 12, right off the road to the left is where the two creeks come together.  I would love to know if that guys body was there between those two creeks. 

[Sister]

small tidbit, I was looking in the map, etc. thread and came across a photo taken where a screwdriver was embedded in a tree.  It appears to be at the park across the street from Lindsey's house.

[doubledecker]

small tidbit, I was looking in the map, etc. thread and came across a photo taken where a screwdriver was embedded in a tree.  It appears to be at the park across the street from Lindsey's house.

hmmm I will go look

[Sister]

fron the Chehalis Tribe website:  People of the Sand
"In the old days we gathered sacred roots and berries. We fished the Chehalis, Black, Cowlitz, Satsop, Wynoochee, Elk, Johns, Skookumchuck, and Newaukum rivers. Our people fished and hunted from the mountains, across the prairies, to Grays Harbor and in the lower Puget Sound.

In the old days the baskets carried and stored our foods. We relied upon the baskets, the rivers, the land, the roots, the berries, the fish, and the animals. Our lives were tied together by the Creator.

-Liichaat, “Just These Few Words”"

[Sister]

Following the destruction of Jerusalem, Ezekiel's speaks of the future of Israel in God's purpose, by no means forgetting Yahweh's stern demands for righteous conduct and abhorrence of corrupt religious practices, but emphasizing the future glory of Israel in a restored land where genuine faith and obedience would flourish.  The exiles in Babylonia by the river Chebar . . .
Ezekiel's most detail vision -- the setting is the river Chebar -- that canal along the Euphrates River in the vicinity of Babylon.  The prophet sees first a cloud swept along by a wind from the north.  The cloud approaches, with fire flashing about it.  Within the cloud and revealed by the lightning flashes, a bronze object appears.  As the cloud draws nearer, the faces and bodies of strange figures are distinguishable.  There are four figures, each with four wings and four faces.  One pair of wings of each figure is spread out, shutting of from view that which they conceal and the protectors of that object.  These beings bring the object which they bear still closer to theprophet.  He is then able to see flaming torches, burning coals, fire darting out from behind the creatures.  Moreover he sees four wheels, one beside each of the creatures.  And above them he is now able to make out a firmament, a kind of platform.  Resting upon this platform is a throne, and upon the throne the likeness of a man, although the fire and the gleaming bronze make it impossible for Ezekiel to see this figure with any clarity.  The brilliant colors of the rainbow mark the entire scene, and its splendor overwhelms the prophet, who falls upon his face as he hears a voice addressing him.

Ezekiel is describing the coming of Yahweh from heaven to Babylonia, although there are assuredly elements of the ark of the covenant in the Jerusalem temple.  Yahweh comes from the north, the traditional location of the high mountain whre heaven and earth meet.  Yet the north (or the northwest) is also the direction from which Yahweh would come if He had followed the path of the exiles in their journey from Jerusalem.

The vision goes on, Ezekiel is careful not to say too much about what he saw, for the emphasis in the vision is not on what he saw but upon the divine word.

So Kim, as you can see, it is very easy for people to take such scripture and turn it into whatever they want it to mean.

[Sister]

Oh, by the way, I meant to add that none of the above has been twisted from the Bible account.  It can be found in Ezekiel the first chapter.

[Sister]

look on the map.  highway 12, Malone, the area where the body was dumped of the guy who was killed way back then.... to the left is Delezene where the fire was. 

look there at Malone and 12, right off the road to the left is where the two creeks come together.  I would love to know if that guys body was there between those two creeks. 

dd, educate me please.  What are the numbers in red on the map?  I obviously didn't study typocraphy (sp).

[doubledecker]

Man Accused of Rape in Satanic Rituals Nears Release

04/09/2002
Associated Press


The former Thurston County sheriff's deputy who pleaded guilty to raping
his daughters in satanic rituals is nearing release from prison. The
state Corrections Department says Paul Ingram can be released from a
Delaware prison when he has a plan for treatment and counseling.


He pleaded guilty in 1989 in Olympia in a case that that raised
questions about recovered memory allegations.


 University of Washington memory expert
Elizabeth Loftus contend that Ingram's guilty plea was based on a false
memory. They say he was encouraged by his pastor, a psychologist and
police interrogators. They told him he'd be able to remember what
happened if he confessed.


Sheriff Gary Edwards said he has no doubts about the confession or
qualms about sending Ingram to prison

[doubledecker]

His PASTOR encouraged him to plead guilty?  He had a PASTOR at the time or the satanic ritualistic rapes?  So was he attending church at the time he was involved in Satanic Ritualistic Rape?

[Sister]

The reality of Yahweh's appearance is beyond description.  Ezekiel sees the "likeness" of four creatures, the "likeness" of a firmament, a throne, a man seated upon the throne.
So even though the temple in Jerusalem is hundreds of miles away, Yahweh is not bound to Jerusalem, to the temple, to the worship of Israel in the temple.  Those who have given up hope in Yahweh's guidance and are ready to make a new life for themselves in the alien land are reminded that Yahweh is still calling them to fidelity to His will.  Those who fix their hopes upon the homeland and expect great works of God there, certain that nothing can be done in exile to provide their escape, are assured that Yahweh can accomplish His purpose of His people no matter where that people may be.
Ezekiel's account contains no explicit message -- the chief message of the vision is, accordingly, that Yahweh is with His people -- perhaps for their good, perhaps to bring more severe judgment.  They are not outside the range of either His mercy or His judgment.  He is their God, their Lord, their judge, perhaps their redeemer even there and then.

To which I now say good night and happy digging.

[Sister]

Man Accused of Rape in Satanic Rituals Nears Release

04/09/2002
Associated Press

The former Thurston County sheriff's deputy who pleaded guilty to raping
his daughters in satanic rituals is nearing release from prison. The
state Corrections Department says Paul Ingram can be released from a Delaware prison when he has a plan for treatment and counseling.

He pleaded guilty in 1989 in Olympia in a case that that raised
questions about recovered memory allegations.

 University of Washington memory expert
Elizabeth Loftus contend that Ingram's guilty plea was based on a false
memory. They say he was encouraged by his pastor, a psychologist and
police interrogators. They told him he'd be able to remember what
happened if he confessed.

Sheriff Gary Edwards said he has no doubts about the confession or
qualms about sending Ingram to prison

Loftus also said: "In 1988 Paul Ingram, a police officer, was arrested for sexually abusing his two daughters, an allegation he strongly denied. Over an extended period of five months, however, he was subjected to pressure by fellow police officers, psychologists and other advisors, suggesting he had committed child abuse, including having raped his own daughters.

Eventually Ingram began to confess to all manner of rapes, child sexual abuses and even to participation in a Satan-worshipping cult which had allegedly murdered 25 babies.

At one point the prosecution brought in the renowned memory researcher, Dr Richard Ofshe, now Professor Emeritus at the University of California, Berkeley. He was asked to interview Ingram. Ofshe soon became suspicious of Ingram's credibility. In order to test Ingram, he made up a story that his son and daughter claimed he had forced them to have sex with each other while he watched. This was something Ofshe confirmed with both son and daughter had not actually happened.

Over a period of hours, and despite initially denying the memory, Ingram slowly began to generate these false memories. Ultimately Ingram wrote a three-page confession to a crime that was completely fabricated. What else might he have fabricated under this kind of intense pressure?

Unfortunately for Paul Ingram, Ofshe's report wasn't issued until after he had already confessed to the crimes and been convicted. He was then unable to withdraw his guilty plea. Paul Ingram remained in jail until 2003 and is still a registered sex offender despite many doubting his guilt."

[doubledecker]

I thought the words said by the police that they were NOT GOING ON A WITCH HUNT was kind of strange.  but when you look at this(at the end of article) ... could they be remembering a time when the were accused of "being on a witch hunt when trying to track down Satanists?  Are the police now thinking that something like this is going on again?  Why did the police now in Lindsey's case us the word WITCHHUNT, that seemed so strange to me, until I read this. 

The Olympian, Trhusday, Dec. 1, 1994, page C1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ingram seeks pardon from state
By Brad Shannon


Board will recommend:  The state Clemency and pardons Board will listen
to the sheriff deputy convicted of incest on Friday.


A former top Thurston County sheriff's deputy convicted of incest is
seeking a pardon or some other help from Gov.  Mike Lowry.

Advocates for Paul Ingram, who's controversial case is discussed in
several new books, will be given a hearing sometime after 9 a.m. Friday
before the Clemency and Pardons Board.

Because of an outpouring of interest, the meeting has been moved to a
larger room, Hearing Room 4, in the Cherberg Building, which is the
Senate office building, according to Anne Fennessy, the governor's press
secretary.

The board can reject Ingram's request, ask for more information or make
a recommendation of anything from a partial to full pardon, according to
Fennessy.  The five-member board's rulings are advisory only, although
18 clemency actions have been taken by Washington governors since 1986,
Fennessy said.

But as one of some 22 cases before the pardons board, Ingram supporters
may have little time to make a case.

Ingram, the former top civil sheriff's deputy and head of the Thurston
County Republican Party, pleaded guilty to six counts of child rape in
1989 and is serving a 20-year prison term at Delaware State Prison.

He since has tried unsuccessfully to withdraw his guilty plea, claiming
he was coerced into confessing to acts he did not commit.

But both the state Supreme Court and U.S. District Court have upheld the
validity of Ingram's plea, which also underwent a five-day review in
Thurston County Superior Court.

Gary Tabor, the county's chief criminal deputy prosecutor, says Ingram
implicated himself in statements to police, long before investigators, a
minister or psychologists got involved in the questioning.

However, victims of so-called "recovered memory" are rallying behind
Ingram, creating a defense fund and trying to generate support for his
cause.

The advocates suggest Ingram's memories of abuse were manufactured.

Among those advocates is Seattle-based Chuck Noah, a former Lewis County
resident, who says he himself was falsely accused of abuse by his
daughter after a therapist encouraged her to remember events that Noah
claims were fictitious.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page C2
Ingram conviction heats up debate on recovered memories

By Brad Shannon

Who's the victim?  Some activists say memories of past sex abuse are
often the result of poor therapy.


The Paul Ingram case lies at the center of a national debate over the
value of so-called "recovered memories" of childhood sexual abuse.

Activists rallying behind Ingram, who was convicted of raping his
daughters, say memories of long-forgotten sex abuse are actually the
result of sloppy therapy or implanting, a phenomenon they call false
memory syndrome.

Among the activists is Chuck Noah, a Seattle man who was accused of
abuse by one of his own daughters, a charge Noah heatedly denies.  Noah
believes Ingram similarly was the victim of false accusations.

But Thurston County Sheriff Gary Edwards and Chief Criminal Deputy
Prosecutor Gary Tabor have stood by investigator' handling of the case
in which Ingram, a former top official in the sheriff's office, admitted
his guilt and then tried to take back his guilty plea.

"Before there was any opportunity for anyone to brainwash him, he had
already admitted (the abuse)," Tabor said Wednesday. "The brainwashing
theory was only a theory."

Those advocating he brainwashing theory have had several chances to make
their case, Tabor said, "but it has been found not to be credible by any
number of courts."  Tabor noted that the Superior Court, Court of
Appeals, state Supreme Court and U.S. District Court in Seattle all have
let Ingram's plea stand.

Edwards said recently that Ingram had admitted molesting his daughters -
even before Ingram was subjected to questioning that became the focus of
critical books, magazine articles and television specials.

After being told the girls would need counseling, Ingram told Edwards:
"You better get some help for the boys (Ingram's sons), too."

But in Lawrence Wright's book, "Remembering Satan:  A Case of Recovered
Memory and the Shattering of an American Family," Ingram is described as
being encouraged by both police investigators and his pastor to recall
events.

According to Wright's research of the Ingram case files, Ingram was told
that in cases like this one, a suspect sometimes will find that he can
remember better once he confesses.

A day or hours after certain questions would be asked concerning new
allegations made by his daughters, Ingram would come back with detailed
recollections that seemed to incorporate the previous day's questions.

Ingram also made hypothetical statements, describing how he would have
done the abuse, if he were to have done it.

Ingram was arrested on the charges in 1989.  No physical evidence of
sexual abuse or satanic activity was ever produced.

The most bizarre element in the Ingram case involved unproven
allegations by Ingram's daughters that he and numerous other deputies
engaged in satanic rituals that included the sacrifice of babies and
sexual abuse.

Police dug up land around Ingram's home on Fir Tree Loop, but found no
bones.

Two other men accused of sex abuse in the case were never brought to
trial as the daughters' stories became entwined in stories of Satanism.

Charges against the men eventually were dropped, but Undersheriff Neil
McClanahan, who led the investigations has refused to clear their names.


Richard Ofshe, a Berkeley sociologist who believes Ingram manufactured
his memories of satanic abuse, has suggested the sheriff's office went
on a modern-day witchhunt.

[Sister]

Beware of being a "true believer." Paul Ingram believed, and it cost him his freedom.

The Prosecution Of A False Memory: The Paul Ingram Case

By Daniel Brailey, Founder of the Ingram Organization

This is the story of Paul Ingram, an active charismatic Christian in Washington State, not only admired among his Christian friends at the Church Of Living Water, but also in the community where he was a longtime Thurston

County deputy sheriff and chairman of the local Republican party. In 1988, Paul's two daughters accused him and a number of prominent men in the community of satanic ritual abuse and sexual abuse. There were months of whispered rumors, extensive questioning, and finally, arrest, incarceration, interrogation, and even an exorcism to "cast out" the evil that Paul's pastor was convinced caused Paul to perform such insidious acts. After all this, Paul confessed, pleaded guilty without a trial, and is now serving the eighth year of his lengthy sentence in a state prison. What is especially startling about Paul's case, however, is that neither he nor many people with the most knowledge of the case believe he is guilty. Instead, Paul became a victim of the child abuse and satanic ritual abuse hysteria of the late 1980s.

This hysteria is promoted by Christian publishers popularizing false testimonies, social agendas overindulging in promoting even fanciful tales of child abuse, and a therapy industry riddled with ineffective and even misleading therapies of memory recovery and multiple personality disorder.

Many experts believe that today, almost a decade after the craze began, many judges, law enforcement personnel, journalists, therapists and Christian leaders now recognize the hysteria for what it is. If Paul's case were to occur today rather than in 1988, he never would have been arrested and even less persuaded to make a false confession and be sentenced to prison. Yet Paul is still in prison, his appeals exhausted. His only hope is direct intervention by the Washington State Governor's office. How this twisted experience developed offers fascinating insight into modern social myth making.

THE ORIGINAL CASE

In 1988, his daughters, Ericka and Julie, accused Paul Ingram of sexual abuse and made bizarre claims of satanic ritual abuse. The charges grew out of events at a retreat sponsored by Ingram's church, the Church Of Living Water.

At the end of the "Heart To Heart" retreat, Ericka was found sobbing in a corner. Karla Franko, who claimed to have the gift of prophecy and whose ministry was prominent at the retreat, came to "minister" to Ericka. As Franko put it," I am the one who opened the can of worms, all I know is what the Lord told me." Karla told Ericka that the Holy Spirit had told her Ericka was a victim of sexual abuse by her father.
Ericka mutely nodded her head in agreement. This was the third allegation of sexual abuse Ericka had made at three separate Heart To Heart Retreats. Of the two previous charges, one was made in 1983, against a church counselor, and then in 1985 both girls made accusations against a neighbor. In both cases, no evidence was found and charges were never pursued. Now, however, in 1988, they were accusing their own father, and the social and religious climate reflected the credulity and naive acceptance many people had at the time regarding satanic ritual abuse

[Sister]

His PASTOR encouraged him to plead guilty?  He had a PASTOR at the time or the satanic ritualistic rapes?  So was he attending church at the time he was involved in Satanic Ritualistic Rape?

"Ingram attended the Church of Living Water. They taught two religious concepts that were to cause him incredible problems later:  That Satan can cause a person to commit terrible acts, and then wipe their memory clean afterwards 
 That any memories that he recovered would be accurate. God would prevent him from recovering false memories. 
Over time, with the use of sleep deprivation and interview techniques verging on hypnosis, the interrogators convinced Ingram that he suffered from multiple personality and had repressed the memories of the abuse. He believed that he had brought up his daughters to always tell the truth. He concluded that he must be guilty, but that Satan had wiped the memory from his mind. During the interrogation, he confessed how he might have done these terrible crimes, but maintained that he had no memory of having actually done them.
At various times during the interrogation, he recovered images of killing a cat and murdering a prostitute.

Various sources report that:  His daughters recalled that her mother Sandy had taken a relatively passive role in the abuse. 
 Erica allegedly recalled details of Satanic ceremonies in which 6 to 8 month old babies or fetuses were sacrificed. She remembered being being forced to have sex with animals while her mother joined in. She believes that she was present at 850 Satanic rituals which included about 25 infant sacrifices. She recalls becoming pregnant, being tied down to the table, aborted with a coat hanger. She recovered a memory of watching the Satanists chop up the fetus and eat it. But she was unable to remember any of the words to the Satanic chants, or even whether she stood or sat during the almost 1000 rituals. 
 Julie and Erica both recalled having become pregnant and having abortions. They claimed that they had scars all over their body from the years of abuse. 
 Julie accused one of her father's friends, Jim Rabie of abusing her. She was unable to recall any tattoos or scars on his body. But Jim has a "rope like, 3 inch [wide] keloidal [large, red] scar" across his chest - the result of a massive electrical shock that nearly killed him 20 years earlier. Julie said that she never changed clothes in the school locker room and always wore a T-shirt over her bathing suit, because she was so self-conscious about her scars. A medical exam showed no evidence of abortions and no marks on either daughter except for Ericka's small scar which was caused by an operation to remove an ovarian cyst (some sources say inflamed appendix). 
 Julie had told her mother that the father's assaults had ended five years earlier. After having been informed about the statute of limitations, she changed her story, and told police that the last assault was three years previous.
 Ericka had originally said that the abuse ended in 1975. But she later told police that she had caught the STD from her father in 1987.
 Paul confessed to cutting the bleeding heart out of a live cat, to killing a prostitute in Seattle in 1983, and to being involved in the Green River killings. The Green River Task Force studied Paul’s statement, but found nothing that matched the facts of the case. 10
 The sisters drew maps of Ingram's back yard where they remembered the bodies of the sacrificed victims were buried. The police excavated the yard but found no evidence of bodies or of disturbed earth. 10
 At one point, a forensic archaeologist, Dr. Mark Papworth, said to Undersheriff Neil McClanahan that there was no evidence: "On this one occasion I said, 'Neil, there’s no evidence. None at all. Zero.' And he said to me. 'If you were the devil would you leave any evidence?' and, I, my hair stood on end and I realized at that point there was no talking to him beyond that and I excused myself." 10


Good gravy, Satan cannot read our minds.  Another twisted church -- and I use the word church liberally.

[doubledecker]

Paul confessed to cutting the bleeding heart out of a live cat, to killing a prostitute in Seattle in 1983, and to being involved in the Green River killings. The Green River Task Force studied Paul’s statement, but found nothing that matched the facts of the case.


 

[doubledecker]

so...no wonder the police do not want to go on a WITCHHUNT, but why call it a WITCHHUNT

that is such a strange word to use.  Are they looking for something what would be connected to that word?  Do they think there is something inline with this?

[doubledecker]

doesn't this wreak of wenatchee, which by the way is just to the east of this area.  And I really do keep seeing some of the names I saw in the cantu case LOL.  later I will go through and see if they are the same people, but I don't have time right now.  just bizarre

[Sister]

yes, why even put the word out there?
 
 

[doubledecker]

I just came across PREACHERS SLOUGHCities / Towns near PREACHERS SLOUGH, WA
HUMPTULIPS, WA (10.0 miles)
MONTESANO, WA (0.0 miles)
NEILTON, WA (7.2 miles)
QUINAULT, WA (3.7 miles)