Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006

[Ono]

Tyler; I know what you mean. That had a profound effect on me at the time. It was the first time in my life that I ever felt the depths of evil that some who share this planet can sink into. Even now, I shiver at the thought. Nuff said, I'll get off that! God Bless and keep us all!

Me too...I couldn't believe my ears.  

[crazybabyborg]

Shizaru wrote:
Any theory that has all 3 present when she was injured or died isn't viable. It's clear from the polis car tapes that at least one member of the trio doesn't know what happened to her. If they all knew and none of them suspected they were being taped, there would have been no reason for them to all act like they didn't know. And if 2 or 3 of them knew and one of those 2 or 3 suspected they were being taped, he would have said something to alert the other(s), so they didn't say anything incriminating.

Yes. And Deepak said, "Freddy has to tell the truth".

[oldfart]

OMG..

I actually managed  to find something I was looking for  
Aruba Suspect Changes Story; Dad Arrested
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160514,00.html

A good find, OF!  If I am reading it correctly, it says that Joran changed his story to dropped her at the beach on Thursday, the same day Paulis was arrested.   Pretty telling!

I'm pretty sure the sequence was:

1) Joran changes his story from HI dropoff to 2K dropped him off at home and drove off with Natalee (think this was on June 10)

2) Then 2K both change their story from HI dropoff to Marriott beach dropoff (this was also around June 10, may have been a day or two later), and they have stuck with that same story ever since

3) Then Joran changes his story to match 2K about Marriott beach dropoff, but later changes it two more times about how he got home from Marriott beach

The fact that 2K both came up with Marriott beach dropoff before Joran is one reason I think it is probably true, they aren't smart enough to have prepared that backup story in advance

Just found another link
Three Suspects in Holloway Case Change Stories
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159327,00.html

June 13th

[Buckeye]

Shizaru wrote:
Any theory that has all 3 present when she was injured or died isn't viable. It's clear from the polis car tapes that at least one member of the trio doesn't know what happened to her. If they all knew and none of them suspected they were being taped, there would have been no reason for them to all act like they didn't know. And if 2 or 3 of them knew and one of those 2 or 3 suspected they were being taped, he would have said something to alert the other(s), so they didn't say anything incriminating.

Yes. And Deepak said, "Freddy has to tell the truth".

And in the Deepak email...he mentions that he and his friend have hired lawyers.  He doesn't mention Satish (or his brother).  Did Satish have an attorny right from the start??

[Ono]

TRUTH
IN LIES

WHAT HE SAID [/b] WHAT HE MEANT

1.  Natalee fell and hit her head   Natalee's head was injured

2.  Natalee drowned  Natalee is in the water somewhere

3) What do you want me do? (as he pounds his chest) Nothing can be done for Natalee

4- Natalee took drugs There will be drugs in Natalee's system

5.  I will laugh if they find that girls body  You will never find Natalee

6. Natalee wanted to see my big house   We went to my house

7  Natalee wanted to see the sharks   Natalee is with the sharks

8.  Natalee wanted to have sex with me I raped her

9.  My 14 SwissK Airs just like these   These are the exact shoes, ya idiot

10. Deepak, then Satish picked me up, But I walked home. What does it matter, we were never at that beach

I KNOW THERE ARE TONS OF THESE, AND IF WE CAN PUT THEM ALL TOGTHER AND STUDY THEM,  WE MIGHT LEARN WHAT THEY ARE SAYING SUBLIMINALLY WHAT HAPPENED.  

Will You add to this list, or correct it?  TIA

Ya beat me to it! LOL!  

[Buckeye]

It would be telling if Paulus hired attornies for Joran, Deepak and Freddy at the onset.

[crazybabyborg]

Shizaru wrote:
Any theory that has all 3 present when she was injured or died isn't viable. It's clear from the polis car tapes that at least one member of the trio doesn't know what happened to her. If they all knew and none of them suspected they were being taped, there would have been no reason for them to all act like they didn't know. And if 2 or 3 of them knew and one of those 2 or 3 suspected they were being taped, he would have said something to alert the other(s), so they didn't say anything incriminating.

Yes. And Deepak said, "Freddy has to tell the truth".

And in the Deepak email...he mentions that he and his friend have hired lawyers.  He doesn't mention Satish (or his brother).  Did Satish have an attorny right from the start??

Another indictment of those e-mails as stage props: Deepak didn't hire an attorney. Paulus hired one for him.

[klaasend]

It would be telling if Paulus hired attornies for Joran, Deepak and Freddy at the onset.

According to Art Wood he did.

[JuJu]

Does anybody know where Freddy was that night?

[Buckeye]

we
have 2 lawyers one for my friend and one for me in case we get arrested and
charched with something his dad can't defend hin he is a judge and he is too
emotional attached .my friend has his graduation this thursday he has to go

http://tinyurl.com/qm4w5

[Buckeye]

forgot to add, Deepak didn't say he hired the attorny...sorry..

[BTgirl]

Hi monkeys.

I'm back for a couple of minutes and trying to get a timeline straight in my head.

1)The guys took a drugged Natalee to the VDS residence and raped her.
2)They put her in the car to take her to the beach and leave her.
3)Before they drive away from the VDS residence, Natalee manages to call Beth.
4)The guys get Natalee to the beach and "something bad happens."
5)Natalee bleeds in the car, then manages to get out of the car.
6)She clambers around the rocks while trying to escape and bleeds on them.
7)At some point Natalee dies.
8)The coverup begins.


If we buy this as a possible timeline, and we assume that the 8 1/2 minute phone call was Joran/K2 transmitting a porn video of Natalee being raped, when during the timeline did the transmission occur? Would anyone have thought to transmit a porn video while trying to deal with a body?

What do you think?

[Shizaru]

Shizaru wrote:
Any theory that has all 3 present when she was injured or died isn't viable. It's clear from the polis car tapes that at least one member of the trio doesn't know what happened to her. If they all knew and none of them suspected they were being taped, there would have been no reason for them to all act like they didn't know. And if 2 or 3 of them knew and one of those 2 or 3 suspected they were being taped, he would have said something to alert the other(s), so they didn't say anything incriminating.

Yes. And Deepak said, "Freddy has to tell the truth".

But then Joran responded with something like "You know Freddy has told the truth".  So my take on the mention of Freddy on the tape is that 2K suspected (or were pretending to suspect) Freddy of some involvement, but didn't know it for certain.

[Buckeye]

Maybe they are telling the truth.  They did drop Natalee and Joran by the Marriot beach...they just forgot to mention they also dropped off Deepak.  Then they met up with Freddy (who might have been with Guido or GVC).  Then they went to Jorans in Freddy's car or Satish got a ride home.

I can't see Joran heading to the beach where one of the 100+ MB students could have been hanging or walking around.

[crazybabyborg]

Found it:

pg. 80, Aruba/Dave Holloway:

We expalained how we were first told that there was blood in Deepak's car. Then, there was no blood in the car.The seat had been cut out of the car and it tested positive for blood.Then, it supposedly tesed positive for chocolate syrup and cleaning fluid. But the Prime Minister had said it was definitely blood, and a police officer that Art talked to, said it was positive for blood.

[Red]

Front page post:

IRS Renews Email Alert Following New Scams; Look Who’s on the List … Aruba

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/07/08/irs-renews-email-alert-following-new-scams-look-whos-on-the-list-aruba/

One glaring name shows up out of all the ones listed. Out of all the countries in the world that could be listed, how does such a small island like Aruba show up on so many lists?

These scam Web sites have been located in many different countries, including Argentina, Aruba, Australia, ...

[Ono]

dkpen -- thanks so much for this! I have now saved your post of the email from Deepak so I won't have to ask about it  

(excerpt)
"so i drove to the lobby driveway of holiday inn and then we woke her up, she got out of the car and fell on the floor my friend said damn she fell and then rushed out of the same door natalee came out and picked her up immediately, after she stood up she pushed my friend and said leave me alone or something like that i can't recall , my friend offered to help het to her room she said no."


He never says 'she hit her head'. The reason for my questions are the timeline. If Joran said it the first night that Beth and Jug were on the island -- but never said it again....it would imply that at a certain point they knew they didn't need the lie.

Why would she want to push someone away when they were only helping her up.  I guess when Paulus wrote this email a made a mistake with his wording.  Or was he trying to tell us that Natalee was really fighting for her life by trying to push them away.

There is something else therein that always jumped out at me where he says " fell on the floor"...that's indicative of something happening in an interior scene...maybe stone flooring so prevalent now in residential decor.....particularly in beach areas everywhere.

[JuJu]

Hi monkeys.

I'm back for a couple of minutes and trying to get a timeline straight in my head.

1)The guys took a drugged Natalee to the VDS residence and raped her.
2)They put her in the car to take her to the beach and leave her.
3)Before they drive away from the VDS residence, Natalee manages to call Beth.
4)The guys get Natalee to the beach and "something bad happens."
5)Natalee bleeds in the car, then manages to get out of the car.
6)She clambers around the rocks while trying to escape and bleeds on them.
7)At some point Natalee dies.
8)The coverup begins


If we buy this as a possible timeline, and we assume that the 8 1/2 minute phone call was Joran/K2 transmitting a porn video of Natalee being raped, when during the timeline did the transmission occur? Would anyone have thought to transmit a porn video while trying to deal with a body?

What do you think?

I think it is close to the truth.  I have missed much along the way.  Was there an 81/2 min. call or a porn video, is this a fact?

[Shizaru]

Maybe they are telling the truth.  They did drop Natalee and Joran by the Marriot beach...they just forgot to mention they also dropped off Deepak.  Then they met up with Freddy (who might have been with Guido or GVC).  Then they went to Jorans in Freddy's car or Satish got a ride home.

I can't see Joran heading to the beach where one of the 100+ MB students could have been hanging or walking around.

The area north of the Mariott and just south of the FH is about 1000 yards from the HI, or about a 5 minute walk.  At that time of nite it is dark and deserted.  Not much chance of any of her classmates being there.

[crazybabyborg]

What's the lynchpin to Fort Lauderdale, anyway? That's where Oduber was when this happened. That's where the guy........was it Taylor Northrop....was brought in from to "damage control" the case. That was really early on. What's the deal. It's like it's a little colony of Aruba's corruption. I'm not convinced that has anything to do with the crime itself, but handling the crime brought it in.