Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006

[Sleuth]

Anyone going to listen to Art Wood tonight?

Approx. 100% of us  

Hello Easy - hope to hear your voice tonight....

Gotta run and finish dinner, but hello monkeys!

[mishy]

Hi Mmonkeys, what's up? Been trying to repair problems on my computer today and get my router reinstalled...No success on any of it!! Does anybody have any tips? If so, please email me....

Also, Klaas you have email...

[BTgirl]

He Easy, people were looking for you today

Why?  What did I do now?  

It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy.

Hope the migrane is better BT.

And don't kid anyone here....you are a sweet young thang!

It's better, thanks Jacqueline.

And thanks for lying about my age for me. Keep saying that to people and maybe they'll start to believe it.

[beachwego]

errr, now I'm having a brain fart! greta said that anita described the, basically, sex between Natalee and Joran that Joran had told to Anita. But where did we come up with Anita desrcibing her underwear? I just dont remember the origin of this for some reason or it being said on greta.
somebody knock me up side the head!!!

The underwear description came from one of Joran's statements that Beth has in her possession.  I never heard Anita speak of underwear.

Hi y'all... I'm back for a lil bit.  It doesnt look like we've moved too fast today.

I just wanted to say that what San says is what I remember about the underwear.  I have never heard Anita speak of it.  Also, I thought Greta was embarrassed by Anita re-telling what Joran had told her of the (insert here the Dutch word for anything from cuddling to fondling or more) that took place between him and Natalee.   WHAT WAS THAT WORD?  It generated so much discussion & now I can't think of it at all!

[ldstlou]

I'm still a few pages back, but wanted to share my theory of that evening.

THEORY

J2K and Natalee leave CnC's.
Satish is dropped at his home.
Joran, Deepak pick Freddy up.  Natalee is not succumbing to the drugs yet, so they take a drive out by the lighthouse.  Natalee jumps out of the car (it is going slow b/c of the rough roads and Deepak's low riding suspension).  A chase ensues and Natalee falls into the rocks striking her head.  There are superficial cuts which bleed profusely, but unknown to them Natalee is bleeding within her skull too. They place Natalee in the backseat, where blood gets on the seat & headliner of the car.
They stop at the pond to wash her blood off.  Joran takes off his shoes to wash them, but when they are seen by the gardener, they panic and leave without them.
They carry Natalee into Joran's apt to film the sexual encounter. Deepak is freaking about the blood in his car, so he leaves to go home and clean his car.  This leaves just Joran & Freddy. Natalee is passing in & out of consciousness b/c of her head wound, the drugs & alcohol.  They both rape her while filming it.  While Joran & Freddy are viewing the tape and sending it to Deepak, Natalee makes her phone call(s).  Joran catches her in the act, and in anger strikes her, and she falls unconcious.  Joran can tell she is hurt very badly and runs for Daddy's help.  Paulus takes a wait-n-see attitude b/c he does not want to answer any questions if he takes her for medical help.  Unfortunately, the bleeding in her brain from the fall at the rocks causes her death. Later that morning, Joran is dropped off for school (whether driven to the bus stop or all the way to ISA).   Paulus also takes Freddy home but tells him to come back in the afternoon when Joran is thru with school.

Paulus deals with Natalee's dispostion, therefore the boys have no idea what happened to her. When Anita comes home, she finds out about it, and Joran is forced to turn over Natalee's underwear that he saved as a souvenir.  Or maybe Joran told Paulus that Nat wasn't wearing any, but Anita found them when scouring Joran's room.

This scenario doesn't include Guido as I don't believe he directly participated. He may have been involved after the fact (when he was supposed to be playing tennis with Joran the next day).  Perhaps Joran told him what happened, and KJ was trying to force him to talk by implicating him as an accessory to it.  Joran confiding in Guido could make Guido very scared, and his family retained Sprong b/c of what Guido knows rather than for him participating in the crime.

Sun...so much of this rings true for me..but I think it needs a little fine tuning...such as..gardner saw them at pond at 2:30am and Natalee's call from Joran's was at 3am..not alot of time to get home and do anything. So mabe the filming was done in car or at lighthouse? Not sure if that's possible because of lighting.

[BTgirl]

He Easy, people were looking for you today

Why?  What did I do now?  

It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy.

Wellllll, I did sleep off and on all day, but I think I am still breathin'!

Glad to hear it!

And I have to admit to having a nap today myself.

Are your cold and fever gone now?

[Easywriter]

Anyone going to listen to Art Wood tonight?

have to paint...and still no time to get my spakers fixed...could someone summarize so I can read when I get home at all hours of the night covered w/ paint! haha

I was going to send you that joke the other day, but could not find your email in your profile.

[SunnyinTX]

sorry meant to highlight the last  sentences

he and his father met Natalee.”

It Seems Beth Got A Real Good Look At The Casino Tape .............

 

Hi Monks!!  Hi Widget!  I am positive there are still many, many things Beth knows.....but still doesn't feel like she can reveal ..as long as there is a chance for justice for Natalee......if/when she losses that hope...the Poop is gonna hit the fan!!

[Jacqueline]

He Easy, people were looking for you today

Why?  What did I do now?  

It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy.

Hope the migrane is better BT.

And don't kid anyone here....you are a sweet young thang!

It's better, thanks Jacqueline.

And thanks for lying about my age for me. Keep saying that to people and maybe they'll start to believe it.

Baby you are cooler than alot of 30 year olds I know.

Just a number, Sugar....

(hey, are jersey girls suppose to talk like that.  I find myself saying Honey Hush too!       )

[ldstlou]

Anyone going to listen to Art Wood tonight?

have to paint...and still no time to get my spakers fixed...could someone summarize so I can read when I get home at all hours of the night covered w/ paint! haha

I was going to send you that joke the other day, but could not find your email in your profile.

oops...when I looked I saw it in there..help Klaas...did I do it right?

[BTgirl]

Baby you are cooler than alot of 30 year olds I know.

Just a number, Sugar....

(hey, are jersey girls suppose to talk like that.  I find myself saying Honey Hush too!       )

Awww....that makes me feel so good that my arthritic joints have almost stopped aching.

Smoochies.

[ldstlou]

sorry meant to highlight the last  sentences

he and his father met Natalee.”

It Seems Beth Got A Real Good Look At The Casino Tape .............

 

Hi Monks!!  Hi Widget!  I am positive there are still many, many things Beth knows.....but still doesn't feel like she can reveal ..as long as there is a chance for justice for Natalee......if/when she losses that hope...the Poop is gonna hit the fan!!

I think you are correct...did anyone else pick up on this early on? That she said met both? Surprised me.

[Easywriter]

He Easy, people were looking for you today

Why?  What did I do now?  

It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy.

Wellllll, I did sleep off and on all day, but I think I am still breathin'!

Glad to hear it!

And I have to admit to having a nap today myself.

Are your cold and fever gone now?

I'm starting to think it is allergies.  Constant runny nose, sore throat into my ears and night sweats.  I might just be falling apart!  Might have to take some bonded medicine tonight! lol

[SunnyinTX]

What's the story about Anita and the underwear?

Anita described them in one of the interviews...I think with Greta & Beth...I'd have to check to be sure....

did she find them in the house?

I thought it was mentioned when Beth and Greta had the sit down at the VDS house.  I recall that Greta seemed a little perplexed that Anita went into detail about natalee's undergarments.  

I honestly don't remember how it came up in the conversation, but I thought Anita was speaking of the underwear , from what Joran had told her.  

Could be wrong.

Yes Anita went into detail so much so that Greta wanted to crawl under the table.  Now if we were to ask Anita questions about that conversation she would say she never said that because if she did say it happened it would be considered a sexual assault against Natalee.  According to Joran they only cuddled on the beach

I have never heard a teenage boy use the term cuddle....that word came from his mother's mouth to his!!  IMO

[ldstlou]

I'm still a few pages back, but wanted to share my theory of that evening.

THEORY

J2K and Natalee leave CnC's.
Satish is dropped at his home.
Joran, Deepak pick Freddy up.  Natalee is not succumbing to the drugs yet, so they take a drive out by the lighthouse.  Natalee jumps out of the car (it is going slow b/c of the rough roads and Deepak's low riding suspension).  A chase ensues and Natalee falls into the rocks striking her head.  There are superficial cuts which bleed profusely, but unknown to them Natalee is bleeding within her skull too. They place Natalee in the backseat, where blood gets on the seat & headliner of the car.
They stop at the pond to wash her blood off.  Joran takes off his shoes to wash them, but when they are seen by the gardener, they panic and leave without them.
They carry Natalee into Joran's apt to film the sexual encounter. Deepak is freaking about the blood in his car, so he leaves to go home and clean his car.  This leaves just Joran & Freddy. Natalee is passing in & out of consciousness b/c of her head wound, the drugs & alcohol.  They both rape her while filming it.  While Joran & Freddy are viewing the tape and sending it to Deepak, Natalee makes her phone call(s).  Joran catches her in the act, and in anger strikes her, and she falls unconcious.  Joran can tell she is hurt very badly and runs for Daddy's help.  Paulus takes a wait-n-see attitude b/c he does not want to answer any questions if he takes her for medical help.  Unfortunately, the bleeding in her brain from the fall at the rocks causes her death. Later that morning, Joran is dropped off for school (whether driven to the bus stop or all the way to ISA).   Paulus also takes Freddy home but tells him to come back in the afternoon when Joran is thru with school.

Paulus deals with Natalee's dispostion, therefore the boys have no idea what happened to her. When Anita comes home, she finds out about it, and Joran is forced to turn over Natalee's underwear that he saved as a souvenir.  Or maybe Joran told Paulus that Nat wasn't wearing any, but Anita found them when scouring Joran's room.

This scenario doesn't include Guido as I don't believe he directly participated. He may have been involved after the fact (when he was supposed to be playing tennis with Joran the next day).  Perhaps Joran told him what happened, and KJ was trying to force him to talk by implicating him as an accessory to it.  Joran confiding in Guido could make Guido very scared, and his family retained Sprong b/c of what Guido knows rather than for him participating in the crime.

Sun...so much of this rings true for me..but I think it needs a little fine tuning...such as..gardner saw them at pond at 2:30am and Natalee's call from Joran's was at 3am..not alot of time to get home and do anything. So mabe the filming was done in car or at lighthouse? Not sure if that's possible because of lighting.

one more note...it just seemed to me that there were times that Deepak wasn't sure if she was dead..I think that was what I picked up in the Skeeters interview...so makes sense to that he left to wash his car..when he left she was hurt but alive.

[Easywriter]

He Easy, people were looking for you today

Why?  What did I do now?  

It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy.

Hope the migrane is better BT.

And don't kid anyone here....you are a sweet young thang!

It's better, thanks Jacqueline.

And thanks for lying about my age for me. Keep saying that to people and maybe they'll start to believe it.

Baby you are cooler than alot of 30 year olds I know.

Just a number, Sugar....

(hey, are jersey girls suppose to talk like that.  I find myself saying Honey Hush too!       )

You are probably okay unless you have found yourself saying sugah pie, hunny bunch. lol

[SunnyinTX]

Thanks, Jacqueline...now, I don't feel so bad.  I remember it...just can't prove it.

A Jersey girl to the rescue...how'e the shore?

Oh my Gawd water was beautiful 68 degrees....

heading back tomorrow !

Hey Jacque I haven't had the opportunity to tell you I was so happy to hear about Uncle Mike!! That is such great news but I hate that he had to go through all of that

I haven't heard/read the news....been away from the computer....but I gather this is good news for UNCLE MIKE!!!  PTL!!!!

[Jacqueline]

He Easy, people were looking for you today

Why?  What did I do now?  

It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy.

Hope the migrane is better BT.

And don't kid anyone here....you are a sweet young thang!

It's better, thanks Jacqueline.

And thanks for lying about my age for me. Keep saying that to people and maybe they'll start to believe it.

Baby you are cooler than alot of 30 year olds I know.

Just a number, Sugar....

(hey, are jersey girls suppose to talk like that.  I find myself saying Honey Hush too!       )

You are probably okay unless you have found yourself saying sugah pie, hunny bunch. lol

I can't help myself... I love you and nobody else....

BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP   sugar pie, honey bunch... LOL

[ldstlou]

Easy..think I fixed it...changed to show e-mail address...hope I did it correctly and not going to show my e-mail address for all the trolls to see!! haha

[SunnyinTX]

Could be wrong.

Yes Anita went into detail so much so that Greta wanted to crawl under the table.  Now if we were to ask Anita questions about that conversation she would say she never said that because if she did say it happened it would be considered a sexual assault against Natalee.  According to Joran they only cuddled on the beach

Hey Guys!! catching up..but this really ticks me off!! If Greta was there when Anita talked GRAPHICALLY about what Joran did to Natalee...so graphic she wanted to crawl under the table...how in the he-- could she ever say she "tends to believe him"?!  SHE WAS THERE!!![/quote]

Greta sold her integrity for an exclusive with a murderer.....and  could only ask the questions a murderer approved....yea Greta you are one for the books.....