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Author Topic: HR 3200 Discussion  (Read 5061 times)
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nonesuche
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« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2009, 11:46:13 AM »

WG as always, you do an outstanding job of ferreting out the fine print. I wish I had more time to review but in a quick scan you're onto the meat of this.

There are no government programs that do not require layer after layer of bureaucracy and 'partners' in private industry are rife within this document. Another shell game like ACORN and one designed to give our government perhaps the ultimate control over the largest industry in our country - healthcare.

Yes, I think this is going to be Obama's "Waterloo". Let the games begin, this is a president who is so full of own supposed capability to pull a fast sale that I hope he's lost all perspective.
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nonesuche
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« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2009, 11:47:11 AM »

WG as always, you do an outstanding job of ferreting out the fine print. I wish I had more time to review but in a quick scan you're onto the meat of this.

There are no government programs that do not require layer after layer of bureaucracy and 'partners' in private industry are rife within this document. Another shell game like ACORN and one designed to give our government perhaps the ultimate control over the largest industry in our country - healthcare.

Yes, I think this is going to be Obama's "Waterloo". Let the games begin, this is a president who is so full of own supposed capability to pull a fast sale that I hope he's lost all perspective.

edited to state not that I hope he's lost all perspective but rather that it's abundantly clear he's lost all perspective.
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nonesuche
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« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2009, 07:34:26 AM »

Gratefully our senate has voted to delay the vote on this bill until after August. I think Obama has underestimated his challenges.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2009, 04:47:42 AM »

After reading the 'reinsurance' section of this bill, it looks to be that those folks with a VEBA or similar will never have to pay a penny for their healthcare.  Their programs in theory are already funded, and the HR 3200 will overpay for their copays, dedutibles, and coinsurance - paying tens of thousands to cover an entire claim, while the money is to be used to ensure the participants have no out of pocket expenses. 

The rest of America has the public plan, subject rationing, and a political based sliding scale of copays and premiums. 

It seems like those with the VEBA and similar will not be contributing to the public plan or subject to any additional taxes or fees.

I wonder is this is where the money from the recovery and reinvestment act is going?  Is money being funded through some of the fuzze language to community groups and similar that are paying the mortgage payments and other bills of interest to the community group?  Is the money ensuring that some do not lose their homes, or go hungry while they are jobless?

I wonder how much of recovery and reinvestment amounts to a pass-through? 

What are the characteristics of those losing their homes today compared to those losing their homes prior to the passage of the recovery and reinvestment act? 

What are the racial and ethnic characteristics of those foreclosed upon that are now renting back their homes from the government?  Are any groups more affected than another?  Creating a generation of housing sharecroppers? 

Perhaps the stimulus was intended to be a bill of pass throughs for Obama's special interests?  No jobs, but to ensure that some survive financially and others do not?

jmho
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2009, 05:04:33 AM »

Quote
What’s happening here is that the baton is being passed. Many of those homeowners we’ve been reading about for years with those crazy subprime loans have been swept to the street.

Taking their place in the foreclosure line are homeowners who have lost their jobs and are now falling behind on their payments.

http://www.boston.com/realestate/news/blogs/renow/2009/07/a_second_forecl.html

From the comments section -

Quote
I photograph and do video tours for real estate in the Boston area. I have shot millions and millions of dollars worth of homes in the past 4 months. High end homes have virtually sat untouched on the market since last November all over the country, yet so many more of these homes have been put on the market this spring and summer. Many of these homes were purchased within the past 5 years or less. Most are owned by young couples with small children.

My take: As bonuses dried up, jobs were lost, salaries were cut, coupled with many of these loans resetting, plus the difficulty in obtaining the jumbo loans in order to attract high end buyers - not to mention the fact that I'm sure many of these folks overextended themselves just a wee bit (!)....

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I have a funny feeling the foreclosures will be spreading to the high end this fall and winter. Big time.

Quote
Bloggers, writers of R.E. articles and readers, EVERYONE, please remember to keep in mind that for several years, the National Association of Realtors and your State Association of Realtors continue to revise and revise and revise down the seasonal and yearly forecast for the number of homes they say will sell.

When these continually revised and lower numbers are then reached, writers and reporters who are not in the Real Estate industry, together with those who are and the many people whose income depends on spinning any and all news and numbers in a positive way, shout from the roof tops that "the numbers have increased", blah blah blah. The dead cat bounce.

There may be higher sales one month over the prior month, but these numbers were revised downwards and more importantly, the prices for homes continue to slip. That is important.

What is also important - and I haven't seen any news to the contrary - there is a huge "shadow" inventory of foreclosed and short sale homes going to hit the market here and throughout the U.S. No one can deny that. Economics 101. Without rising employment and rising salaries, there is no and will be no home stabilization.

People jumped into the bubble and are now losing money if they need to sell. Just as many of us bought stock in Sun Micro at $80.00 and after 10 years it is still around $9.00. I need to sell this stock. Anyone want to buy it from me at $81.00 so that I can break even after paying my stockbroker! Sorry. I sound like more home sellers still in denial and living in fantasy land.

Somehow, I can't imagine those folks being part of community groups like ACORN and being on the insider  track to pass through money and grants.

Any audit of the community groups likely?  Federal Reserve? 

I've been looking at the recovery and reinvestment act, and nothing looks like a job creator to me.  Much of it doesn't start until the fall, and doesn't look like it will create jobs for young families losing their McMansions.

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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2009, 05:13:04 AM »

Quote
TUCSON, Ariz. -- The National Council of La Raza will buy foreclosed homes in Phoenix to rehabilitate and then sell to low-and moderate-income Latino families under a pilot program partly funded by the charitable arm of Citigroup, officials announced Thursday.

New York-based Citi Foundation is providing $1.75 million to the NCLR, of which $235,000 will go to the group's Raza Development Fund. That money will allow the fund to acquire properties, maintain and rehab them and then sell or lease them, Citi Foundation community relations vice president Eric Eve said.

"This is the next stage of the foreclosure crisis, working with nonprofit organizations like NCLR to help strengthen and rebuild communities that are struggling through the current foreclosure crisis," he said.

Quote
The money will be paired with about $4 million from the fund he manages and federal stimulus program money expected in December or January, said Tom Espinoza, president and CEO of the Raza Development Fund in Phoenix.

Quote
Starter homes in the target neighborhoods are ranging between $60,000 and $100,000, and the plunge in values -- as much as 50 percent in just three years -- will enable some families to obtain mortgages now, he said.

http://www.kpho.com/houseandhome/20165587/detail.html

LaRaza will now be in the housing rental and leasing business?

Will this new batch of owners worry about losing their jobs?
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
nonesuche
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« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2009, 12:02:10 AM »

After reading the 'reinsurance' section of this bill, it looks to be that those folks with a VEBA or similar will never have to pay a penny for their healthcare.  Their programs in theory are already funded, and the HR 3200 will overpay for their copays, dedutibles, and coinsurance - paying tens of thousands to cover an entire claim, while the money is to be used to ensure the participants have no out of pocket expenses. 

The rest of America has the public plan, subject rationing, and a political based sliding scale of copays and premiums. 

It seems like those with the VEBA and similar will not be contributing to the public plan or subject to any additional taxes or fees.

I wonder is this is where the money from the recovery and reinvestment act is going?  Is money being funded through some of the fuzze language to community groups and similar that are paying the mortgage payments and other bills of interest to the community group?  Is the money ensuring that some do not lose their homes, or go hungry while they are jobless?

I wonder how much of recovery and reinvestment amounts to a pass-through? 

What are the characteristics of those losing their homes today compared to those losing their homes prior to the passage of the recovery and reinvestment act? 

What are the racial and ethnic characteristics of those foreclosed upon that are now renting back their homes from the government?  Are any groups more affected than another?  Creating a generation of housing sharecroppers? 

Perhaps the stimulus was intended to be a bill of pass throughs for Obama's special interests?  No jobs, but to ensure that some survive financially and others do not?

jmho

not just your opinion WG, it's being proven out and I think Obama ramming HR 3200 down his own party member's throats is making even democrats finally realize that Pelosi and Obama were sister/brother under the skin all along. The power grab is enormous rolling off that alliance and we will be paying for it for decades to come.

It is all about special interests, now it's coming to light that ACORN has been involved with HR 3200 all the while behind the scenes.

The destruction of our country's political system, all due to an effort to redistribute the wealth likely driven by a belief that black americans deserve reparations.

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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2009, 08:32:50 AM »

(snip)

not just your opinion WG, it's being proven out and I think Obama ramming HR 3200 down his own party member's throats is making even democrats finally realize that Pelosi and Obama were sister/brother under the skin all along. The power grab is enormous rolling off that alliance and we will be paying for it for decades to come.

It is all about special interests, now it's coming to light that ACORN has been involved with HR 3200 all the while behind the scenes.

The destruction of our country's political system, all due to an effort to redistribute the wealth likely driven by a belief that black americans deserve reparations.

A few other things come to mind. 

Pelosi, in the video telling immigrants how patriotic they are.  Solid votes for the future? 

What about the people who already here?  The ones that don't want to go with the program?  The elderly?  This administration doesn't seem opposed to letting the elderly go.  In fact, they seem to have decided already what the value of each person in the U.S. is already.  The older you are, the less valuable.  If you're different, less value.

Everytime I see the H1N1 flu advertised on TV, it's like someone made up a crisis out of nothing and doesn't want it to go to waste.

First, the Obama administration just seems to 'know' all about it, who it affects, how dangerous it is, long before anyone else on the globe.  Was it let loose on purpose, or is it natural?  Does it matter?

In an odd twist, for SOME reason, this one flu strain (out of thousands/millions) seems to affect the children and young people.  OTHER strains target the elderly and those with compromised immune systems.  This one is being hyped as different - from the get go.

What has been in the news?  Hmmm...there are only so many doses to go around, those who qualify may have to take two doses (not sure why, this does not make sense) and we may have to share with the rest of the globe. 

No problem.  We have a priority system.  Right?  Since it seems to affect the young and children in greater numbers, they along with healthcare workers, and I presume government workers get the available/rationed doses. 

Since it doesn't seem to affect the elderly and those with compromised immune systems, they are at the end of the global line.  This, even though, there is no real way to 'predict' if and when the virus mutates.  Will the new virus work the same way?

Is this the new rationing?  The elderly and weak fend for themselves?  How many will die in the next few years?  This will lower the growth of Social Security, Medicare, and other services. 

Is the Obama administration trying to spend the savings on his healthcare overhaul before they are realized?

Will this eliminate a voting block that may vote against Team Obama in the future?  Replace them with fresh people from other countries?


What to do with all the money and wealth these old folks leave behind?  Maybe an estate tax of like 100%?  75%?  50%?  Life insurance tax too?  Same rates?

A few blogger commentators have been suggesting that old people just 'waste' their money by leaving it to their children, who haven't 'earned' it.  Why shouldn't it go to the state?  The state has a great plan for your legacy.

Are hugh taxes on life insurance and estates next on the roster?  Capture the money that will be transferred this flu season?

Redistribution of wealth?

jmho and wandering thoughts.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2009, 11:46:33 AM »

from-

SEC. 204. CONTRACTS FOR THE OFFERING OF EXCHANGE-PARTICIPATING HEALTH BENEFITS PLANS.
Quote
(2) SOLICITING AND NEGOTIATING BIDS; CONTRACTS- The Commissioner shall--

(A) solicit bids from QHBP offering entities for the offering of Exchange-participating health benefits plans;

(B) based upon a review of such bids, negotiate with such entities for the offering of such plans; and

(C) enter into contracts with such entities for the offering of such plans through the Health Insurance Exchange under terms (consistent with this title) negotiated between the Commissioner and such entities.

(3) FAR NOT APPLICABLE- The provisions of the Federal Acquisition Regulation shall not apply to contracts between the Commissioner and QHBP offering entities for the offering of Exchange-participating health benefits plans under this title.


Why aren't provisions of FAR applicable?  Will healthcare, the public plan be political?

Isn't FAR used in Medicare contracting today?

From the CMS website - http://questions.cms.hhs.gov/cgi-bin/cmshhs.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3778&p_created=1106162764

Quote
"What are the key changes that Medicare Contracting Reform brings?"

As CMS moves forward with Medicare Contracting Reform, we will ensure that changes are managed effectively and coordinated with other Program initiatives. CMS will ensure that Medicare claims continue to be processed effectively, accurately and in a timely manner. Under Medicare Contracting Reform, contracts will be subject to the Federal Acquisition Regulation. Differences between the Title XVIII contracts (current contracts) and the Federal Acquisition Regulation contracts (future contracts) are:

CURRENT CONTRACTS
• Restrictions on who can receive contract award
• Generally limited to cost reimbursement contracts
• Performance standards and criteria are published in the Federal Register
• Either party may terminate
• Must submit monthly expenditure reports, which do not have to be approved in advance in order to access funds
• Contracts/Agreements renewed year to year

FUTURE CONTRACTS
• Full and open competition is required
• Several types of contracts are available
• Performance standards are contained in the contract
• Only Government may terminate for convenience or default
• Must submit a voucher in order to get paid, and payment is made after voucher is approved
• Contract period of performance is a maximum of 5-years


Why circumvent the FAR procedures?  It seems like competition is necessary, who determines the standards for competition?

Community organizations?  Unions?
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2009, 12:25:15 PM »

In Wisconsin, the state has a few Medicaid programs that cover illegal immigrants. 

One covers them for 'Emergency Services' - this is a part of Wisconsin Medicaid.  If people in this country illegally, participate in this Medicaid program, does that make them eligible for the Public Option? 

Quote
EMERGENCY SERVICES
Emergency Services is a program for people who have an emergency medical condition and cannot get Medicaid or BadgerCare Plus because of immigration or citizenship status.

Quote
You may be able to get Emergency Services, if you are:
• Age 65 or older, or
• Blind or disabled, or
• Under the age of 19, or
• Pregnant, or
• Have children under age 19 in the home, and
• Meet all other program rules.

Quote
Social Security Numbers are not required. Information about your family will not be shared with the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) (formerly INS).

http://dhs.wisconsin.gov/medicaid/Publications/p-10072.pdf

I read that 'everyone' will get a NEW health insurance number.  What prevents the numbers from being assigned to those here illegally?  Non-Citizens?

How is the public plan going to check for citizenship status?

There are a few other programs that seem to circumvent the issue of 'immigration status'.

I wonder how many illegal immigrants come to the U.S. every year?  How many end up on some Medicaid program?

Along with tort reform, it seems like stopping the flow of illegal immigration will help reduce healthcare inflation.

Someone has to pay for all of these folks.  If they aren't contributing, the burden falls to other shoulders.

I think the 'traditional' Medicaid programs that include people here illegally, may be a door way to the public option.

People here illegally, aren't responsible for paying the taxes.  What's wrong with this picture?

jmho
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It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2009, 08:18:11 PM »

Health 'Reform' Covers Illegal Aliens
by  James R. Edwards, Jr.

09/02/2009

Quote
"This has been an example of just pure misinformation out there,” President Obama recently asserted on a radio program.  “None of the bills that have been voted on in Congress, and none of the proposals coming out of the White House propose giving coverage to illegal immigrants -- none of them."

Quote
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told CNN, “No, illegal immigrants are not covered by this plan [H.R. 3200].”

Quote
Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl, who also serves on Finance, expressed similar concerns.  "It’s a logical question for people to ask," he said. "In the last couple of bills … there were efforts to ensure that only eligible people would get the benefits … those efforts were defeated by Democrats. ... That illegal immigrants get care ... [is] a big burden on hospitals."

Quote
The ranking Republican on the House Judiciary Committee, Rep. Lamar Smith, said, “[T]he bill contains no provisions preventing illegal immigrants from participating in the Health Insurance Exchange that is to be created, including the government-run ‘public plan’ that will be available through the federally-run and federally-subsidized exchange. This is in direct conflict with the president’s claim that illegal immigrants will not be insured under his plan.”

Quote
No where does the bill require verification of one’s eligibility on citizenship or immigrant status.  Not in the Medicaid part.  Not in the Health Insurance Exchange.  Not in the government-run insurance option.  Not in the taxpayer subsidy for health premium payment.  Nowhere.

I do recall reading that illegal immigrants are not allowed to pay any HR3200 taxes... 

Quote
Rector said H.R. 3200 “turns that [eligibility check requirement] on its back and tramples it into the dust.  It basically says we will not verify; we will not check.”

In several places, the legislation defers the writing of details to the health bureaucracy.  That approach lets lawmakers say “such-and-such isn’t in this bill.”

Quote
H.R. 3200 establishes an “enroll first, don’t ask questions later” regime.  The ostensible goal:  universal coverage with easy and fast enrollment.


Quote
The lackadaisical process for getting people -- including illegal aliens and immigrants supposed to rely on their visa sponsor’s financial support -- into government health care at taxpayer expense amounts to a scam and a scandal.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=33362

Wisconsin has a Medicaid program for people here illegally.
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
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