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Author Topic: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 - 8/26/09  (Read 402051 times)
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #600 on: August 02, 2009, 08:45:00 PM »

Can I ask why we are discussing the decomp issue?  Is there a suggestion that JB was possibly capable of concealing a body in such a manner that it would be undetectable? Such as the way Gacy or Dahmer did?

I am not necessarily hung up on JB. But I am saying there are ways to conceal a body and I do not think it has been thoroughly investigated. I have questions in my mind if the cadaver dogs last week were even taken to the retention pond for the water system spill-off, much less the other obvious places.

By this time the townspeople should be in an uproar over Lindsay being still missing. Why are they not??
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
MuffyBee
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« Reply #601 on: August 02, 2009, 08:46:26 PM »

http://www.komonews.com/news/49343017.html
Small town baffled, alarmed at 10-year-old girl's disappearance
Story Published: Jun 27, 2009 at 12:16 PM PDT
Story Updated: Jun 27, 2009 at 9:52 PM PDT
By Ray Lane and KOMO News Web Staff
MCCLEARY, Wash. - A wide-ranging search is under way for a 10-year-old girl who vanished Friday evening while walking home from a friend's house in this small town set amid forested hills west of Olympia. And now the entire town is worried.
Lindsey J. Baum was last seen at 9:15 p.m. Friday when she left her friend's home on Maple Street, where she had been visiting, said Dave Pimentel of the Grays Harbor County Sheriff's Office.

Lindsey was going to walk the four blocks to her home on Mommsen Road, which is roughly a 10-minute walk. But something happened in that short distance - Lindsey never arrived home.
"She hasn't been seen or heard from since," Pimentel said.
Her mother reported her missing at 10:50 p.m. And as the hours drag by with no sign of her, the girl's family fears she may have been taken by a stranger.

Search teams have been out looking for the girl, using bloodhounds. Sheriff's deputies, meanwhile, are calling people who live in the neighborhood and also are going door to door to see if anyone heard or saw anything.

Other searchers are combing the nearby woods on ATVs. Everyone is anxious for any sign of the missing girl.


Pimentel said Lindsey has never been a runaway. "We don't suspect that at this time," he said.

The girl's disappearance has shocked many residents of McCleary, population 1,550, where the biggest employer is a lumber mill that manufactures doors and people know their neighbors.

"We don't know what happened to her yet. All we know is she's missing, and we're taking every effort we can to try and locate her," he added.

Police say it appears Lindsey walked at least part of the way with home with friends, who didn't see anything unusual.

Melissa McCann, a family friend, said, "This is a small town. These things don't happen. And yet here they are. She comes from her friend's (house) a lot, so it doesn't make sense that she didn't show up at home. We're just baffled."

Pimentel said it's strange that nobody saw anything unusual.

"Such a small community like this - you can't do much in a town this size without everybody knowing about it," he said. "Everybody in town knows she's unaccounted for."

Lindsey's mother admits the 10-year old had been fighting with her brother in the moments before she was last seen, and that Lindsey is still upset about her parent's recent divorce.

But with every passing hour, there are mounting worries that the friendly girl who will talk with anybody is in serious trouble.

Lindsey was last seen wearing a gray hooded pullover sweatshirt, with blue jeans and black shoes. She stands about 4-feet-10-inches and weighs about 85 pounds.
**************************
I hope Lindsey is found soon. 
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  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
crazybabyborg
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« Reply #602 on: August 02, 2009, 08:49:47 PM »

IMO I think valuable time was lost, thinking perhaps she was a runaway.

That's my understanding too, NRCG.

I realize that unwarrented searches are illegal, and I certainly agree with the rights we have in protecting ourselves from that sort of invasion. Having said that, if police came to my door asking to take a look inside because there was a child missing, I'd fling the door wide open and say "excuse the mess, is there anything I can do to help?"

It might be interesting to see who reacted differently and why! Just sayin'........
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« Reply #603 on: August 02, 2009, 08:49:52 PM »

Can I ask why we are discussing the decomp issue?  Is there a suggestion that JB was possibly capable of concealing a body in such a manner that it would be undetectable? Such as the way Gacy or Dahmer did?

I am not necessarily hung up on JB. But I am saying there are ways to conceal a body and I do not think it has been thoroughly investigated. I have questions in my mind if the cadaver dogs last week were even taken to the retention pond for the water system spill-off, much less the other obvious places.

By this time the townspeople should be in an uproar over Lindsay being still missing. Why are they not??
That is the question I would like to have answered. Either they don't care, they don't like Lindsey's family, they don't want their lives turned upside down with interference of LE. I don't know but it must be some good reason. I have asked on several occassions about how the towns people are acting over this, are their lives going on as before, are they suspicious of each other, and I have not read a reply, so I don't know.
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #604 on: August 02, 2009, 08:50:33 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg855570#msg855570

This is the very first post in Lindey's  thread started by Pink Angel.  Sometimes it is a good idea to go back from the start and read over things.  JMHO
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« Reply #605 on: August 02, 2009, 08:51:18 PM »

IMO I think valuable time was lost, thinking perhaps she was a runaway.

That's my understanding too, NRCG.

I realize that unwarrented searches are illegal, and I certainly agree with the rights we have in protecting ourselves from that sort of invasion. Having said that, if police came to my door asking to take a look inside because there was a child missing, I'd fling the door wide open and say "excuse the mess, is there anything I can do to help?"

It might be interesting to see who reacted differently and why! Just sayin'........
I would do the same thing, but a lot of people are paranoid and especially paranoid about LE looking around inside their homes.
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #606 on: August 02, 2009, 08:56:13 PM »

Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

I am aware of the 4th amendment issues, well aware. When a small child is missing in a small town, everyone is generally co-operative. We have seen this over and over. Even in Boise, where Robert Manwell is missing, they were able to get a search warrant on a "show cause" because as I read it he "knew the family" and his car had been reported stolen and returned. Not much to go on, but even he was co-operative.

Now back to Lindsay. Usually police will advise the residents they are looking for Lindsay and not for any illegal drugs or porn on their computer and they will comply. It happens every day. So why is it there are so many people in McCleary that have made themselves unavailible and uncooperative? And why hasn't the LE pushed??

Is there a vigil tonight for Lindsay? How many people are there?
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #607 on: August 02, 2009, 09:00:19 PM »

IMO I think valuable time was lost, thinking perhaps she was a runaway.

That's my understanding too, NRCG.

I realize that unwarrented searches are illegal, and I certainly agree with the rights we have in protecting ourselves from that sort of invasion. Having said that, if police came to my door asking to take a look inside because there was a child missing, I'd fling the door wide open and say "excuse the mess, is there anything I can do to help?"

It might be interesting to see who reacted differently and why! Just sayin'........
hockey cheers
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #608 on: August 02, 2009, 09:01:30 PM »

Rob ... in the process of elimination ... I cannot comprehend why ANYBODY would not cooperate with authorities in regards to questioning and searching of property when it is considered a little girl is missing.

If I lived in McCleary and ... the authorities arrived at my door and requested to search my residence and property.  I would step aside and ... instruct them to go for it!

I do not believe for a second if those residence and properties between 5th on Maple and the Baum residence have not been search ... it is because residents would not give permission.

Janet

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« Reply #609 on: August 02, 2009, 09:03:03 PM »

Rob ... in the process of elimination ... I cannot comprehend why ANYBODY would not cooperate with authorities in regards to questioning and searching of property when it is considered a little girl is missing.

If I lived in McCleary and ... the authorities arrived at my door and requested to search my residence and property.  I would step aside and ... instruct them to go for it!

I do not believe for a second if those residence and properties between 5th on Maple and the Baum residence have not been search ... it is because residents would not give permission.

Janet

It does happen, I know from experience.  For whatever reason sometimes people do not want their property searched.  We had a case here where a private plane crashed into a man's field and he would not give permission to l.e. to go on his property.  They had to get all the paperwork just to locate the missing plane and recover the pilot & his passengers. Very sad that someone would not cooperate with l.e. or search & rescue when it involved others lives.  I know it wasn't a little girl missing but the same holds true, some people just don't care. 

I don't know IF anyone refused to let l.e. search their property in Lindsey's case, I'm just saying it does happen.

My kids fight a lot and sometimes they say mean things to each other but I know that they love each other and are the first one's to stand up for the other one and protect them if necessary.  It's just kids and they know how to get on each others nerves and push buttons. 

Have a lovely evening.
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Justice 4 Natalee/Justice 4 Caylee<br /><br />Where is Lindsey Baum
Fanny Mae
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« Reply #610 on: August 02, 2009, 09:03:08 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg855570#msg855570

This is the very first post in Lindey's  thread started by Pink Angel.  Sometimes it is a good idea to go back from the start and read over things.  JMHO

I have read here from the beginning. The truth is, I never from the beginning thought she was a runaway.  I just haven't posted much here, and as thing have gotten tense, maybe I shouldn't be posting now. It is frustrating to see the thread go so far afield when not even the basic things have been done, IMO.
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #611 on: August 02, 2009, 09:03:59 PM »

Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

I am aware of the 4th amendment issues, well aware. When a small child is missing in a small town, everyone is generally co-operative. We have seen this over and over. Even in Boise, where Robert Manwell is missing, they were able to get a search warrant on a "show cause" because as I read it he "knew the family" and his car had been reported stolen and returned. Not much to go on, but even he was co-operative.

Now back to Lindsay. Usually police will advise the residents they are looking for Lindsay and not for any illegal drugs or porn on their computer and they will comply. It happens every day. So why is it there are so many people in McCleary that have made themselves unavailible and uncooperative? And why hasn't the LE pushed??

Is there a vigil tonight for Lindsay? How many people are there?
It sure seems to me that not a lot of towns people are interested like they are in other cases, such as Robert and Sandra and Nevaeh. It just seems so, maybe if you live there it doesn't, but being from the outside looking in, that's the way it looks to me.
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« Reply #612 on: August 02, 2009, 09:05:02 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg855570#msg855570

This is the very first post in Lindey's  thread started by Pink Angel.  Sometimes it is a good idea to go back from the start and read over things.  JMHO

I have read here from the beginning. The truth is, I never from the beginning thought she was a runaway.  I just haven't posted much here, and as thing have gotten tense, maybe I shouldn't be posting now. It is frustrating to see the thread go so far afield when not even the basic things have been done, IMO.
I never thought she was a runaway either, that just made no sense to me at all.
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« Reply #613 on: August 02, 2009, 09:05:15 PM »

In the Idaho case, they were able to secure a warrant because a search dog hit on the neighbor's suburban.  Anyway, I agree with you on the searches- I'd like to know who did and didn't consent. However, keep in mind that the 4th amendment is there to protect citizens from unreasonable, but also unscrupulous government- such as those that would plant evidence. It happens. Google the name "fred zane." Zane was head of west virginia's crime lab. For 12 years he falsified dna reports to obtain convictions.  Add to that the apparent community distrust, and the thought by some that someone from law enforcement may even be involved in lindsey's disappearance, and you get a pretty reasoable reason why some residents may be reluctant to open their doors to unbridled searches. Indeed, you might be opening the door to the perp him/her self.
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« Reply #614 on: August 02, 2009, 09:08:00 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg855570#msg855570

This is the very first post in Lindey's  thread started by Pink Angel.  Sometimes it is a good idea to go back from the start and read over things.  JMHO

I have read here from the beginning. The truth is, I never from the beginning thought she was a runaway.  I just haven't posted much here, and as thing have gotten tense, maybe I shouldn't be posting now. It is frustrating to see the thread go so far afield when not even the basic things have been done, IMO.

Fanny, I can tell from your posts you are really feeling the pain of Lindsey's disappearance.  I posted the first post by pink angel, because it does say they had blood hounds out and they were putting fliers out and they were going door to door.  But I don't know just how really, really well they searched, because I wasn't there.  I know it's frustrating.  I would open my door to let le search, or my car to look for a child.  But some don't or won't without a warrant and for that it must be probable cause, which you know.  When you said why aren't LE "pushing" well, we know LE can't push too much or they get in a lot of trouble, because citizens have rights that are protected under the law, which we both know.  And it's hard when there is a child missing.  I hope Lindsey can be found.   an angelic monkey
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« Reply #615 on: August 02, 2009, 09:10:41 PM »

Can I ask why we are discussing the decomp issue?  Is there a suggestion that JB was possibly capable of concealing a body in such a manner that it would be undetectable? Such as the way Gacy or Dahmer did?

I am not necessarily hung up on JB. But I am saying there are ways to conceal a body and I do not think it has been thoroughly investigated. I have questions in my mind if the cadaver dogs last week were even taken to the retention pond for the water system spill-off, much less the other obvious places.

By this time the townspeople should be in an uproar over Lindsay being still missing. Why are they not??

JessStar...a voice of reason!  There is in MY mind no way that JB was possibly capable of committing a murder and then concealing a body to this extent.  His mind does not reason that throughly!!

If you still want to research it, and find something we have may missed, go for it.  However, let's not let it be to the determint of all other good viable research that is going forward.    I am not sure what people are imagining as to the bad water smell.  It is an unpleasant order, but it is not permating the neighborhood.  We have frequent water flushes here when they open a new pipe, and it smells like sulfer when you hold a glass of water up to your nose, but the neighborhood certainly doesn't smell like that.  JMO 

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« Reply #616 on: August 02, 2009, 09:13:14 PM »

I fell the same way about the searches going door to door.
There is a very small area between where she was last seen and her house.
I don't know why if LE came to the house doors and asked if they could look around the yard, crawl spaces etc specifically for her and had dogs with them, that a reasonable person would refuse.  We have different laws here in Canada and they do need probable cause to conduct a full blown search, but if they were just looking for Lindsey and found say drugs or stolen goods by happenstance, could any resulting charges be laid ?
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« Reply #617 on: August 02, 2009, 09:14:55 PM »

Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

I am aware of the 4th amendment issues, well aware. When a small child is missing in a small town, everyone is generally co-operative. We have seen this over and over. Even in Boise, where Robert Manwell is missing, they were able to get a search warrant on a "show cause" because as I read it he "knew the family" and his car had been reported stolen and returned. Not much to go on, but even he was co-operative.

Now back to Lindsay. Usually police will advise the residents they are looking for Lindsay and not for any illegal drugs or porn on their computer and they will comply. It happens every day. So why is it there are so many people in McCleary that have made themselves unavailible and uncooperative? And why hasn't the LE pushed??

Is there a vigil tonight for Lindsay? How many people are there?
It sure seems to me that not a lot of towns people are interested like they are in other cases, such as Robert and Sandra and Nevaeh. It just seems so, maybe if you live there it doesn't, but being from the outside looking in, that's the way it looks to me.
i feel ya'll there...it seems as though they just want it to go away...not that they don't care (who knows maybe they don't)  or maybe its just to big for them (town-folk, LE) to imagine??  at this point???  questions are all i have
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« Reply #618 on: August 02, 2009, 09:16:12 PM »

The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #619 on: August 02, 2009, 09:18:01 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg855570#msg855570

This is the very first post in Lindey's  thread started by Pink Angel.  Sometimes it is a good idea to go back from the start and read over things.  JMHO

I have read here from the beginning. The truth is, I never from the beginning thought she was a runaway.  I just haven't posted much here, and as thing have gotten tense, maybe I shouldn't be posting now. It is frustrating to see the thread go so far afield when not even the basic things have been done, IMO.

Fanny, I can tell from your posts you are really feeling the pain of Lindsey's disappearance.  I posted the first post by pink angel, because it does say they had blood hounds out and they were putting fliers out and they were going door to door.  But I don't know just how really, really well they searched, because I wasn't there.  I know it's frustrating.  I would open my door to let le search, or my car to look for a child.  But some don't or won't without a warrant and for that it must be probable cause, which you know.  When you said why aren't LE "pushing" well, we know LE can't push too much or they get in a lot of trouble, because citizens have rights that are protected under the law, which we both know.  And it's hard when there is a child missing.  I hope Lindsey can be found.   an angelic monkey

Actually, I am feeling the pain of the LE in the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's Office having not done their jobs. I do know of what I speak. The hot light of suspicion would be on anyone not cooperating, and this is not happening in this case.

Oh well, the townsfolk were able to carry on with their 4th of July celebration and parade, even though there was a child missing within a stone's throw of their celebration, and within days of their fine celebration. The mayor and commissioners were waving from their perches on their convertible cars, and life goes on in McCleary. Where's Lindsay, and who cares anyway? Therein lays my pain.
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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