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Author Topic: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 - 8/26/09  (Read 398510 times)
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Treehouse
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« Reply #640 on: August 03, 2009, 12:13:53 AM »

Tamikosmom, doubledecker, Treehouse, Rob, KaraK and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Treehouse, Rob, Gizzie, Tamikosmom, doubledecker and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Hello all.

I confess to being a binge monkey these days. Work prevents me from following daily, so when I get a stretch of time, I go back and read for hours. Seldom do I catch up enough to comment.

Today is the first that I've read about Lindsey. She is now in my thoughts and prayers.

And now, it is time to turn my thoughts to work again.

Have a good evening.
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« Reply #641 on: August 03, 2009, 12:14:19 AM »

Tamikosmom, doubledecker, Treehouse, Rob, KaraK and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.


What is the point?  Am I missing something?  Or is this a hi?

On the issue of folks refusing to allow a search, it is not always illegal activity that causes people to say no.  Sometime they are worried their house is so dirty that CPS will be called in - to determine the fitness of the home.  Sometimes they have 14 cats and don't want the city telling them how many cats are too many.  Some just don't want to get involved.  I am not saying that is right, but it is what it is - it is their right by law. 
Is there reason to believe that the newspapers in that area are reporting door to door and going back to ask ones who were missed if they can look for the child - is there reason to believe they are reporting this in error on purpose?
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #642 on: August 03, 2009, 12:15:51 AM »

Rob

I never implied that any constitutional rights should be violated.  I just wanted to know if an attempt was made by LE to get permission from each resident in that two block stretch to search homes and property.  I believe that maybe Lindsey had an encounter on that stretch ... not necessarily a homeowner and ... her body is lying on one of these properties out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.

Janet



highly doubtful her body is lying around one of these homes. The dogs would have pulled a handler directly to it. A dog leading a handler to a property is probably cause for a search... as in a drug bust where drugs are concealed with in a vehicle.

That's different then a body being concealed in a home or in a freezer. A dog would probably have a hard time smelling a cadaver in a freezer in a basement - and likewise hidden in a house unless the windows were open or you had a very very good dog. However, a cadaver dog can smell decaying flesh for quite some distance - and - it's a considerable factor that even hidden in a house - a body could be detected by a dog in the vicinity.

Rob

That is what I want to know.  Has those properties been searched by LE ... by dogs.

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #643 on: August 03, 2009, 12:21:06 AM »

Think about precious little Jessica Lunsford.  Stuffed alive in a plastic bag ... buried less than 2 feet from the surface ... a stone throw from her home ... from the bedroom where she was abducted.  She was not recovered for weeks and ... it was suspicion that brought LE back to that trailer.  The first time LE was there ... it was determined she was still alive in a back room.  No search was done at that time.

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Fanny Mae
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« Reply #644 on: August 03, 2009, 12:23:27 AM »

I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #645 on: August 03, 2009, 12:23:31 AM »

DD

I speculate IF something happened to Lindsey at the hands of her brother ... it was completely unplanned.  I am not condoning but ... it could have been possibly provoked and ... he acted impulsively.  At twelve years old ... I believe this young man would have panicked and ... bolted.  In all probability ... no attempt or ... very little attempt at hiding his sister's body.  Maybe Lindsey was covered with debris or foilage.

I believe IF the above scenario took place ... Lindsey will be found in an out-of-sight spot on one of the properties in that two block radius.

Sheriff Scott stated in the search the other day ... that they were calling on neighbours again and requestioning them as well as neighbours who had yet to be contacted.  It does not appear that those properties were search to any extent ... only rural areas.

Also ... when it is considered what a resident said about Josh's behavior at that first vigil in regards to attempting to solicit money for the purchase of fireworks and ... KaraK's words about Josh's behavior at a search effort regarding Josh's only interest was in arranging a playdate with her son ... it appears that he does not comprehend that seriousness of the situation.  A lack of conscience can account for the fact there is no remorse.

DD ... I am only speculating.  Lindsey Baum is missing and ... something happened to her. 

Janet


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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #646 on: August 03, 2009, 12:24:18 AM »

The flushing of the water and treatment systems could have masked the initial strench of body decomposition body.  However ... after over a month ... would there still be a decomposition order?

What if Lindsey's remains were not disposed of but ... are out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.  Maybe her remains are lying not far from where she was last observed two blocks from home by a family friend who was driving to work.  Maybe a thorough search with the dogs should be conducted by authorities on ALL properties in that two block stretch.

Remember Jessica Lundsford.  This little girl's remains were found on property within a stone throw from her home ... from the bed she was abducted from. 

Janet

+++++++

McCleary Water / Wastewater manages both the water system from the wells into homes and businesses and the sewer system that takes wastewater to the treatment plant.

WATER SYSTEM FLUSHING

June 22nd through July 2nd


The City crew will be flushing the water system using various fire hydrants around town, click on the link below to read the entire Public Notice and what to do in your area when the flushing takes place.

Hydrant flushing notice 

Wastewater Treatment

Water System

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={CAF3B3FA-696A-4B0F-B441-C68ADF931009}


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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #647 on: August 03, 2009, 12:24:50 AM »

DD

When all the underlying dynamic that has been revealed/alleged encompassing Josh Baum and ... then when you consider the argument that must of been so heated that it dictated  intervention by a neighbour ... logic dictates that Lindsey's brother should not be overlooked as a person of interest.  Hey ... maybe he has not been overlooked but ... the dots cannot be connected.  Think about the six searches conducted at the creek within days following Lindsey's disappearance.  Think about the recent search with the dogs.

I can only speculate on a possible scenerio and ... it involve a chance meeting between  Lindsey and a still angry Josh within two block from their home ... a chance meeting following Lindsey being observed at FiftH and Maple by a neighbor driving to work.  Then somewhere a short distance off the beaten track ... things go out of hand.   

Consideing Melissa Baum passed a lie detector test ... I do not believe she has any first hand knowledge of wrongdoing.

I saw a photo of Josh Baum at the second vigil a few nights ago.  He is a good size.

Again ... I am not accusing but ... when what is known about Josh and Lindsey's relationship that appears to reach beyond normal sibling rivalry ... I believe that her brother should not be overlooked as a person of interest.

Janet



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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #648 on: August 03, 2009, 12:25:17 AM »

Again ... it would be interesting to know what time Josh Baum got home on the evening of June 26, 2009.  Did he go home as the neighbour who intervened in the argument had instructed?  If he was at home with Mom prior to Lindsey's leaving the Kampen resident between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM then this wannabe detective's speculation will go in another direction.

Janet


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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #649 on: August 03, 2009, 12:27:44 AM »

Kara

what time did Josh Baum arrive home on the evening that his sister went missing.

Thanks

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #650 on: August 03, 2009, 12:45:15 AM »

Janet,

KaraK may be lurking and reading but she has made a personal decision not to post on any more forums regarding Lindsey. So sadly, I doubt your question(s) will be answered unless another local can answer them or someone can get Sheriff Scott on the line.   


http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=FLB

Lighting a candle and saying a prayer for Lindsey. May she found soon. It's been FAR too long.

 an angelic monkey
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« Reply #651 on: August 03, 2009, 12:48:04 AM »

Thank you pink angel.

Good Night All.

Janet
9:50 PM PT
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #652 on: August 03, 2009, 12:49:08 AM »

ANJ, do you only see thing in black or white, and think there are no shades of grey? The law says one thing, but do you not think there is ever a case of a little fudging either way? I feel that you must study law, and know how it is written. I respect that. But in reality, there really are some shades of grey.

I am offended when someone makes a blanket statement and then leaves and goes off to another thread or just logs off. I am not speaking of you in this case, ANJ. Like I said before, you know me and knows who I am and why I feel the way I do. Basicially, I am a constitutionalist too. But I am a realist, and know that the constitution is streched way out of shape frequently. Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the worst. Lately it seems, it has really been way for the worst.

It still does not change the fact the the LE have not done their homework in Lindsay being missing for this long. And I really want to know why not.
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #653 on: August 03, 2009, 12:56:44 AM »

As usual, when I post here, posters just leave until I log off, and my questions are not answered. I think they are questions that are at the center of Lindsay being gone this long. I will leave you all alone to post in peace and I will read along and lurk, as it seems I have nothing to offer, or at least nothing that most feel is important or worth hearing.

I have lit a candle for Lindsay and I will continue to do so daily. I hope she is found soon, and this nightmare in McCleary can be over. I pray to God it is soon. We are all really on the same side. We just want Lindsay found.   an angelic monkey
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #654 on: August 03, 2009, 01:19:46 AM »

I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.


I would be happy to answer some questions if I can - I don't get on much we have a lot going on or at least are trying to get a lot of things going on and done but if you wouldn't mind quoting or reposting your questions I will try to check back and answer as many as I can...

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« Reply #655 on: August 03, 2009, 01:29:24 AM »

I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.


I would be happy to answer some questions if I can - I don't get on much we have a lot going on or at least are trying to get a lot of things going on and done but if you wouldn't mind quoting or reposting your questions I will try to check back and answer as many as I can...



I would like to know if as a local, you feel that everything possible has been done by the McCleary PD and the Grays Country Sheriff's Office?

I would also like to know if you feel that this latest search with cadaver dogs covered the area that REALLY needed to be searched, and that people along Lindsay's route were be cooperative?

Do you know if the King County Cadaver dogs were taken to the pond/spill over where the water system drains, and were they taken out in boats?

Have you seen any presence of FBI or State type officials in town?

Do you feel that LE of any kind are doing all they can to find Lindsay?

Have you heard of people in the search area refusing to let LE search their property, and what has the LE reaction been to that?

What do you think really happened to Lindsay that night?

I know it is a lot of questions, and I have never posted when you have been here. I only have the best intentions for Lindsay and want her found one way or the other.
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #656 on: August 03, 2009, 02:32:49 AM »

Tamikosmom
I have not set on a specific theory, there are too many directions this case can go in and since I am not privy to the details that is known by LE, I cannot come out and say someone did this or should be a person of interest. In my opinion it takes more then a comment, a hunch or even a theory but logic and facts. As internet posters who are not on the ground talking to people, searching, conducting questioning, I don't know if we can truly ever know. However if you want to know what my hunch is, I think it is someone who is known to the area, maybe not specifically the neighborhood. I think Lindsey knew this person or has seen this person and was no longer a stranger to her. It is someone who is between  20-45 and maybe is known to act a little younger then what his age may tell. I think it is a sexually motivated crime and this person has gotten away with molestation before and has now moved on to killing. I think the kylie case may have a link to this one. Sadly, I do not believe she is alive and we will find her in water or in the forest areas someday. 

I think it is important to keep in mind Josh has a disability which if you knew about autism it makes it even more unlikely he could do this and not break. Obviously you believe otherwise, that is ok, we don't have to agree. Probably neither one of us is right and it will be someone or something we hadn't even thought of or knew of


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« Reply #657 on: August 03, 2009, 02:47:08 AM »

I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.


I would be happy to answer some questions if I can - I don't get on much we have a lot going on or at least are trying to get a lot of things going on and done but if you wouldn't mind quoting or reposting your questions I will try to check back and answer as many as I can...



I spoke to soon. Nice to see you KaraK. Thank you for answering some questions. It's most appreciated. I know you have been busy. Any luck with getting a search center set up and has Melissa contacted TES yet to help search for Lindsey?
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« Reply #658 on: August 03, 2009, 02:50:58 AM »

I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.


I would be happy to answer some questions if I can - I don't get on much we have a lot going on or at least are trying to get a lot of things going on and done but if you wouldn't mind quoting or reposting your questions I will try to check back and answer as many as I can...



I spoke to soon. Nice to see you KaraK. Thank you for answering some questions. It's most appreciated. I know you have been busy. Any luck with getting a search center set up and has Melissa contacted TES yet to help search for Lindsey?

I am sorry Janet, for speaking for KaraK and KaraK, I am sorry for speaking for you. You did say earlier though you were not going to be posting anymore. I was just repeating what I believed to be true.

It's nice to see you and thank you in advance for all that you are doing for Lindsey. If we monkeys can help in anyway, don't hesitate to ask.
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« Reply #659 on: August 03, 2009, 03:49:50 AM »

ANJ, do you only see thing in black or white, and think there are no shades of grey? The law says one thing, but do you not think there is ever a case of a little fudging either way? I feel that you must study law, and know how it is written. I respect that. But in reality, there really are some shades of grey.

I am offended when someone makes a blanket statement and then leaves and goes off to another thread or just logs off. I am not speaking of you in this case, ANJ. Like I said before, you know me and knows who I am and why I feel the way I do. Basicially, I am a constitutionalist too. But I am a realist, and know that the constitution is streched way out of shape frequently. Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the worst. Lately it seems, it has really been way for the worst.

It still does not change the fact the the LE have not done their homework in Lindsay being missing for this long. And I really want to know why not.

Fanny- orginally, I was not going to reply to this comment, but I have changed my mind. 
Am I black and white - in part, yes.  But I am so much more than just black and white.  You imply I know you -- I know you from this board and a few emails we have exchanged but I have never met you or spoke with via phone - so no, I don't know you and you don't know me if you think I can be summed up as black and white.
Back to am I black and white - as I said, yes in part.  I am also open minded - I will look in the box, outside the box, under the box and 3000 miles away from the box.  I am intuitive - and that is certainly not black and white.  Yes, I love law, medicine, psychology and an array of topics.  I could go on, but I will spare the board. 
However, it is the black and white in dealing with an investigation that keeps a case from being a mistrial or a not guilty when a guilty verdict was in order.  I want LE to do all searches by the books, because that will insure justice for Lindsay.  It is those times when they 'fudge' and enter into the grey when justice is compromised most, IMHO.
I think you might want to look in the mirror about being black and white - when I simply tried to bring the constitutional issue up as many were upset that doors haven't been broken down in the search - you responded to me this way: 
I wrote:  Can I add, I see a bunch of posters wanting every home searched, but the 4th amendment to the US Constitution prevents that while guarding citizens rights to and guards against unreasonable searches and seizures.  They can't just enter all the homes without just cause.
You replied: Well shoot. Let's just quit looking for Lindsay. Let's go back to looking up every SO from McCleary to Timbuctu!
I also saw where you took part of my post out of context -
You said:  I did not think I was getting into "spats with fellow monkeys."  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5790.620
I was not referring to you personally or anyone.  I was referring to the tone that was on the board today.  Monkeys against monkeys because of differing theories.  I have been reading all the different points of view - seeing many entertain lots out of their comfort or black and white zone and asking questions to try to see the other point of view.  On some of it, I see I bunch of bumped posts I have already read - but nothing new or overwhelmingly convincing - but I remain open to all the theories being tossed out.  What I do hate to see is tension getting in the way of respectful discussion of the case.  On that, I am black and white - I like when we all work together. 
More than I intended to post - and my email is in my profile so you or anyone who wants to discuss this more with me can send me a note, but lets get back to the news on Lindsay.
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