Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 - 8/26/09

[Tracygirl]

Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

My apologies, it was the BEAR FESTIVAL pictures and parade I was refering to, held the second week in July.

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={16587989-AB3D-40DE-AD14-52F45942F4A2}

That was the festival or gathering they put out posters and such? At least it was used to spread the word to as many people as possible about Lindsey.

In tracy after Kyle had escaped from the house of terror it was around the holiday season, it felt weird to be at our towns parade, to go to the tree lighting

[Tracygirl]

Am I too assume that life has moved on in McCleary? 

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume life goes on. Although, in my opinion it doesn't mean the town has forgotten.

In your experience in Tracy when Sandra Cantu came up missing, was it that way too?

Yep!

[Fanny Mae]

Am I too assume that life has moved on in McCleary? 

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume life goes on. Although, in my opinion it doesn't mean the town has forgotten.

In your experience in Tracy when Sandra Cantu came up missing, was it that way too?

Yep!

 

[JessStar]

Fanny Mae, I recently had the same reaction as you are having to what tracygirl is saying. But it was in connection with Nevaeh-a little girl that (probably because of her tender age), really brought me to my knees. I'm a big hockey fan. I remember watching some of the stanley cup finals (the Detroit Redwings were playing), and watching all the Detroit fans cheering in their seats thinking "How could they!  A little girl is missing from your community, and you are watching hockey and cheering!"  That was my state of mind. But I had to realize that yes, life must go on. Nevaeh would want it that way, I'm sure. That doesn't mean for one second that I have forgotten about her. She is still in my thoughts and prayers, much like Sandra Cantu is.

[JessStar]

And I should add, much like all the children-Lindsey included. Once I become personally invested, its hard for me to walk away. And impossible for me to forget.

[no rose colored glasses]

And I should add, much like all the children-Lindsey included. Once I become personally invested, its hard for me to walk away. And impossible for me to forget.

I am the same way.

[chi-monkey]

Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

Heidismom

Do you have a personal connection to the Baum family?

Thank you

Janet

No, I don't, just great compassion for them for what they are going through.  I also feel so badly for Josh as he faces his teen & adult years with challenges that are not anyone's fault.

What has been revealed in regards to the various troubling issues encompassing Josh Baum ... I too feel for this young man.  Nevertheless ... considering the heated argument just prior to his sister's disappearance ... the heated argument that dictated intervention by a family friend ... Josh Baum must be considered a person of interest until eliminated by LE.  In the name of justice for Lindsey Baum ... no person of interest should be given a free pass.

Heidismom ... thank you for responding.

Janet

Janet, I strongly agree with you on this.  If we cannot consider or discuss Josh, the only one fighting with Lindsey that last day, then we have no reason to be here.  The reasons given for not looking at him are not compelling to me.    A moment of uncontrolled rage and a little help with cleanup is all it would have required for Josh to be involved.   Feeling sorry for Josh is not the point here; finding Lindsey is.   

Chi-M

[Fanny Mae]

Fanny Mae, I recently had the same reaction as you are having to what tracygirl is saying. But it was in connection with Nevaeh-a little girl that (probably because of her tender age), really brought me to my knees. I'm a big hockey fan. I remember watching some of the stanley cup finals (the Detroit Redwings were playing), and watching all the Detroit fans cheering in their seats thinking "How could they!  A little girl is missing from your community, and you are watching hockey and cheering!"  That was my state of mind. But I had to realize that yes, life must go on. Nevaeh would want it that way, I'm sure. That doesn't mean for one second that I have forgotten about her. She is still in my thoughts and prayers, much like Sandra Cantu is.

I appreciate you noticing my distress over this. Monroe Mi is not in Detroit, but is a small community between Toledo and Detroit. Tracy, Ca is not the biggest place in the world either. but I remember the outpouring and the news and television ongoing reports. And the interviews going on with citizens who were beside themselves with worry. And the huge outporings of attendence for their vigils and memorials in both places. Yes, I guess life goes on, but the loss of a child in the area is still the topmost concern until they are found.

I have seen nothing like that in McCleary, Wa. I realize it is an out of the way place, probably someplace that most of us have never been to or lived in. It is just unfathomable to me that so many people in such a small place know nothing, and would just to prefer it to be that way. If the LE and the people in such a situation make it uncomfortable for media and outsiders to be there, they will leave. A simple fact. And it seems to be deliberately so.

As far as my remarks for the Bear Festival going on so close to the time of Lindsay being missing, now we are hearing how the city and the LE are underfunded, and the Grays County Sheriff's Office is thinking of cuts. I guess it looks to me like priotities of a missing child vesus disappointing this year's Bear Festival participants were measured, and guess who won? Ok, flyers were handed out to a few more people than those that live right in town. How did that work out for them? It sounds like a case of "Come to town, Leave your money, and then leave and leave us alone."

[Tamikosmom]

Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

Heidismom

Do you have a personal connection to the Baum family?

Thank you

Janet

No, I don't, just great compassion for them for what they are going through.  I also feel so badly for Josh as he faces his teen & adult years with challenges that are not anyone's fault.

What has been revealed in regards to the various troubling issues encompassing Josh Baum ... I too feel for this young man.  Nevertheless ... considering the heated argument just prior to his sister's disappearance ... the heated argument that dictated intervention by a family friend ... Josh Baum must be considered a person of interest until eliminated by LE.  In the name of justice for Lindsey Baum ... no person of interest should be given a free pass.

Heidismom ... thank you for responding.

Janet

Janet, I strongly agree with you on this.  If we cannot consider or discuss Josh, the only one fighting with Lindsey that last day, then we have no reason to be here.  The reasons given for not looking at him are not compelling to me.    A moment of uncontrolled rage and a little help with cleanup is all it would have required for Josh to be involved.   Feeling sorry for Josh is not the point here; finding Lindsey is.   

Chi-M

Thank you chi-Monkey.

Sometimes I feel I am in a twilight zone.

Janet

[chi-monkey]

Private wells and septic tanks pose a danger to children.  Many old towns have private wells, most unused but sometimes not permanently sealed.  Septic tanks often have openings large enough for a small child to fall in, or otherwise.   Ditto underground water cisterns. 

Reading the McCleary City information I see that the city services supply water and sewer to most residents, but some in outlying areas of town use private wells and tanks.   Also, that gas station may have abandoned its old leaky underground storage tanks, but left them in place. 

So far I have not found local maps showing this detail.  Just worrying.

Chi-M

[Fanny Mae]

Private wells and septic tanks pose a danger to children.  Many old towns have private wells, most unused but sometimes not permanently sealed.  Septic tanks often have openings large enough for a small child to fall in, or otherwise.   Ditto underground water cisterns. 

Reading the McCleary City information I see that the city services supply water and sewer to most residents, but some in outlying areas of town use private wells and tanks.   Also, that gas station may have abandoned its old leaky underground storage tanks, but left them in place. 

So far I have not found local maps showing this detail.  Just worrying.

Chi-M

You have just brought up concerns that I posted much earlier in the thread, and the only answers that were ever forthcoming were "I don't know", to nothing. I am glad you brought it up again.

[AZSunny]

Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

Heidismom

Do you have a personal connection to the Baum family?

Thank you

Janet

No, I don't, just great compassion for them for what they are going through.  I also feel so badly for Josh as he faces his teen & adult years with challenges that are not anyone's fault.

What has been revealed in regards to the various troubling issues encompassing Josh Baum ... I too feel for this young man.  Nevertheless ... considering the heated argument just prior to his sister's disappearance ... the heated argument that dictated intervention by a family friend ... Josh Baum must be considered a person of interest until eliminated by LE.  In the name of justice for Lindsey Baum ... no person of interest should be given a free pass.

Heidismom ... thank you for responding.

Janet

Janet, I strongly agree with you on this.  If we cannot consider or discuss Josh, the only one fighting with Lindsey that last day, then we have no reason to be here.  The reasons given for not looking at him are not compelling to me.    A moment of uncontrolled rage and a little help with cleanup is all it would have required for Josh to be involved.   Feeling sorry for Josh is not the point here; finding Lindsey is.   

Chi-M

Chi, I don't think anyone said we were not considering Josh or that it couldn't be discussed, or that investigations on his background are not important. It doesn't mean that we can't focus on other issues, and not dedicate the whole thread to one suspect.  When page after page is covered on one issue, we lose focus on all the other suspects and circumstances. 

 Do I personally think Josh was involved, NO...I don't think he is mentally capable or focused enough to have done this by himself. Maybe the focus should be who may have helped him?  Not his mother as she has taken a poly and passed.  Perhaps there should be a separate thread just to discuss Josh.  Would that keep everyone happy??

[JessStar]

Fanny Mae, I recently had the same reaction as you are having to what tracygirl is saying. But it was in connection with Nevaeh-a little girl that (probably because of her tender age), really brought me to my knees. I'm a big hockey fan. I remember watching some of the stanley cup finals (the Detroit Redwings were playing), and watching all the Detroit fans cheering in their seats thinking "How could they!  A little girl is missing from your community, and you are watching hockey and cheering!"  That was my state of mind. But I had to realize that yes, life must go on. Nevaeh would want it that way, I'm sure. That doesn't mean for one second that I have forgotten about her. She is still in my thoughts and prayers, much like Sandra Cantu is.

I appreciate you noticing my distress over this. Monroe Mi is not in Detroit, but is a small community between Toledo and Detroit. Tracy, Ca is not the biggest place in the world either. but I remember the outpouring and the news and television ongoing reports. And the interviews going on with citizens who were beside themselves with worry. And the huge outporings of attendence for their vigils and memorials in both places. Yes, I guess life goes on, but the loss of a child in the area is still the topmost concern until they are found.

I have seen nothing like that in McCleary, Wa. I realize it is an out of the way place, probably someplace that most of us have never been to or lived in. It is just unfathomable to me that so many people in such a small place know nothing, and would just to prefer it to be that way. If the LE and the people in such a situation make it uncomfortable for media and outsiders to be there, they will leave. A simple fact. And it seems to be deliberately so.

As far as my remarks for the Bear Festival going on so close to the time of Lindsay being missing, now we are hearing how the city and the LE are underfunded, and the Grays County Sheriff's Office is thinking of cuts. I guess it looks to me like priotities of a missing child vesus disappointing this year's Bear Festival participants were measured, and guess who won? Ok, flyers were handed out to a few more people than those that live right in town. How did that work out for them? It sounds like a case of "Come to town, Leave your money, and then leave and leave us alone."

Wow, did you say a mouthful.  So true.  I have to admit, I find the town's reaction unusual as well-at least from what I can gather from reading media reports and forums such as this.  I'm not there, so I don't know what happens on a day-to-day basis.  I also don't know the town dynamics.  To even begin to understand the town's perceived reaction, you have to understand its people.

For example, how is the relationship between citizens and law enforcement?  Are they suspicious of one another?  Do they trust one another?  Do they respect one another?  Are most residents long-time residents?  Or is a good percentage of the population transient?  What do the people do for a living?  Who is the major employer?  For those who've lived there any appreciable amount of time, why have they stayed?  What is the relationship among the citizenry?  Are there cliques?   Are there "gossip chains?"  And if so, do they focus on any particular person or perceived class of persons?  What is the citizen's view of the media?  What is the average education level?  What is the median age group?  What is the town's principal source of revenue?  What do the citizens do for fun, entertainment, or attraction?

The problem is we judge people through our own eyes.  I already know that if something like this ever happened close to my home, I'd be a basket case, even if the child wasn't mine.  I'd devote whatever time and resources I could toward finding him/her.  I can't imagine it any other way--that's just me--when it comes to children, no cost is too great.  So I automatically think others should react the same way.  To think that KaraK and others couldn't find someone to donate a small space for a "command center" was unbelievable to me, and perhaps symbolic of how financially distressed the area is.  Or perhaps there's a bigger issue of which all of us--except perhaps for the locals--can understand.

This is, of course, all just my opinion, and I certainly mean no disrespect to the citizens of McCleary.  They are going through a very stressful time right now.  The bottom line is that an 11 year old girl remains missing.  And that, alone, is heartbreaking to most people.

[AZSunny]

Private wells and septic tanks pose a danger to children.  Many old towns have private wells, most unused but sometimes not permanently sealed.  Septic tanks often have openings large enough for a small child to fall in, or otherwise.   Ditto underground water cisterns. 

Reading the McCleary City information I see that the city services supply water and sewer to most residents, but some in outlying areas of town use private wells and tanks.   Also, that gas station may have abandoned its old leaky underground storage tanks, but left them in place. 

So far I have not found local maps showing this detail.  Just worrying.

Chi-M

I wonder if a call to the city services water department could assist with this information?  They were helpful in providing information previously about the draining of the water. 

[no rose colored glasses]

Private wells and septic tanks pose a danger to children.  Many old towns have private wells, most unused but sometimes not permanently sealed.  Septic tanks often have openings large enough for a small child to fall in, or otherwise.   Ditto underground water cisterns. 

Reading the McCleary City information I see that the city services supply water and sewer to most residents, but some in outlying areas of town use private wells and tanks.   Also, that gas station may have abandoned its old leaky underground storage tanks, but left them in place. 

So far I have not found local maps showing this detail.  Just worrying.

Chi-M

You have just brought up concerns that I posted much earlier in the thread, and the only answers that were ever forthcoming were "I don't know", to nothing. I am glad you brought it up again.

And also I'm going to bring up again, the smell, the smell while they were flushing the sewer system. To me that is a big deal, and could mask the smell of decomp.

[chi-monkey]

Private wells and septic tanks pose a danger to children.  Many old towns have private wells, most unused but sometimes not permanently sealed.  Septic tanks often have openings large enough for a small child to fall in, or otherwise.   Ditto underground water cisterns. 

Reading the McCleary City information I see that the city services supply water and sewer to most residents, but some in outlying areas of town use private wells and tanks.   Also, that gas station may have abandoned its old leaky underground storage tanks, but left them in place. 

So far I have not found local maps showing this detail.  Just worrying.

Chi-M

You have just brought up concerns that I posted much earlier in the thread, and the only answers that were ever forthcoming were "I don't know", to nothing. I am glad you brought it up again.

At this point I know more about the sewage and drainage system in McCleary than any stranger should. LOL 

Interesting points I read were that the door company waste is held there before dumping into the city system part way to the treatment plant.   That the sewer system before its latest improvement project was so poor that some residents had broken through pipes or their basement floors to the sewer lines to dump drainage in directly.   Manhole covers are to weigh at least 120#.  (Way to heavy for a child to lift.)

I think there should be maps in the city or county offices showing water and drainage.  There are only 5 places in town where drainage can be seen from above ground, but a company doing their plans for the last upgrade ran cameras through the entire system.  Wish they could do that again.   

 Interesting point with the cameras, they found enormous flow from unknown and previously unmeasured source coming into the city system.   It was the door company which had hooked in with city workers help, but been forgotten.  Anyway,  I have no answers about this.   Let's keep looking.

Chi-M

         

[no rose colored glasses]

JessStar I see you have many questions about the town, I have asked over and over some of your questions, but I still don't know the answers. I'm frustrated, I know from growing up in a small town, people must be talking like crazy over this, I would just like to know what some of the people are thinking about Lindsey missing, my biggest question is are the kids out and about like before Lindsey went missing? There certainly seems to not be as big of concern like in some cases we have followed, maybe I'm wrong. Is LE telling parents to keep an eye on your kids, we have a kidnapper running around, are they warning the public?

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks chi-monkey   

[Lovinlife]

I believe the county engineer's office should have the sewer and storm drain plans.  ICBW.

[Lovinlife]

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/permits/permit_pdfs/mccleary/mccleary_fs.pdf

Maybe this will help someone