Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 - 8/26/09

[doubledecker]

i believe that if lindsey's face turned white as a ghost after she saw the white car drive by and was told 'no' to another sleepover, she must have known this person or been afraid to tell someone that they were following her, maybe she thought she'd get in trouble? i dont know...im trying to wrap my mind around this case.

did these eye witnesses say it was a car or a truck?

or possibly a van.

What I'm try to figure out, is if this little girl was so frightened by this white car, I wonder why she didn't say something to the parent at the second home she went to that night, or ask if someone would walk home with her. So now this is two different set of people that let a 10 year old walk home alone.

they knew she was afraid, how else would they know she saw the car and flipped out turned white and was scared to death.  they sent her off anyway!!!!  whoever actually did it... according to someone

[doubledecker]

so one more thing "I" am thinking here

maybe she really did start down maple, get scared and double back on 6th to get away from this car?  that would explain why the dog trailing at first ended up on 6th and stopped and it would have been the freshest scent so that would make it to where the maple trail would not count. 

[doubledecker]

ok I am going to be late for appt. if I don't get off of here. bbl

[no rose colored glasses]

Why in the world would a 10 year old be wanting to find a place to spend the night. Was she afraid to go home? Was she in trouble at home? Was she not getting along at home, so she is out asking to spend the night. Something is not right with this.

[Rob]

by this point, I would have to believe that all these rumor mill stories have been checked out. It's been a month.

I also believe the police when they say they don't have much to go on and no particular direction... although, they say someone local.

That's hard to believe as almost everyone in the town and the surrounding counties seems to have been cleared and there is no POI or focal point. There are only 1500 people in town and only so many would have access to Lindsey and a chance for a clear cut get-a-way.

As all the people in town are seemingly accounted for and none seem to be exhibiting a change in behavior or suddenly quitting a job, that would indicate that if Lindsey was taken by a townie - she's deceased and no one is tending to her care.

With child abductors, the child is killed with in 3 hours in about 75% of the cases... sorry to say so and my intend is not to be insensitive. Just stating the fact.

Also with child abduction, the abductor can not replace that abducted child very easily. So they sometime do tend to keep the child alive and Shawn Hornbeck is a prime example. Although Shawn was likely to be re-placed by Ben Ownsby but none the less, Shawn was kept alive for about 4-5 years.

In my humble opinion, it doesn't have the hallmarks of a local to me. With only so many people who would abduct and only so many likely suspects with access to THE abduction, it seems more than likely to me that this someone not from the area and that's the main reason why the case is still unsolved.

I know that there are those that think someone knows something and has kept that info confidential. For me, that's hard to believe at this point. Someone usually say something and there are more than enough people willing to speak to strangers on a message board. So, people are talking but the leads are not producing anything so far to date.

 

[Tamikosmom]

Why in the world would a 10 year old be wanting to find a place to spend the night. Was she afraid to go home? Was she in trouble at home? Was she not getting along at home, so she is out asking to spend the night. Something is not right with this.

I am 62 years of age and ... I can remember collaborating with friends regarding spending the night at each others home ... regarding how were going to convince our parents.  Sleepovers were fun.

The only part of the scenario that bothers me is the adults who made choices for a ten year old that were not in her best interest.  There is no way I would send any ten year old away from my home to walk the streets defenceless against the dangers that lurk.

It did not concern Kara Kampen or Scott Williams who sent Lindsey on her way and it did not concern Melissa Baum as long as Lindsey met her ten o'clock curfrew.  For crying out loud ... my 11 year old grandson is in bed at 10:00 PM ... not walking the streets of town unsupervised.

Janet

++++

KARA KAMPEN

The Daily World - July 3, 2009

McCLEARY — Kara Kampen said she thought nothing of it when Lindsey Baum walked out of her house at about 9:15 p.m. last Friday.

http://**/articles/2009/07/03/local_news/doc4a4e415cdb51d302573546.txt


SCOTT WILLIAMS

KOMO News - June 28, 2009

Lindsey was going to walk the four blocks to her home on Mommsen Road, which is roughly a 10-minute walk. But something happened in that short distance - Lindsey never arrived home ...

The friend's father, Scott Williams, said he asked Lindsey to go home before it got too dark.

"She was here 10, 15 minutes, and then, you know, we said, 'You should probably get going before it gets dark,' and that was the last we heard of her," he said.

Witnesses say Lindsey seemed normal as she headed out around 9:15.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html


MELISSA BAUM

Where is Lindsey Baum? Police, FBI Search for 10-Year-Old
Girl's Mother Frantic After Lindsey Never Made it Home From a Friend's House
By SARAH NETTER
June 30, 2009

Baum said her children began squabbling over the use of Josh's bike on the way there and were stopped by a family friend who sent Josh home to end the argument. Lindsey continued on to her friend's house. When Lindsey's friend found out she couldn't stay the night, Lindsey headed for home around 9:30 p.m.

"When she wasn't home by 10, I started to get nervous," Baum said, adding that 10 p.m. is the curfew for her children.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=1

[Edward]

You are so correct Rob on all of what you wrote..
 People do not want to hear the facts but they are the facts.. Stranger abductions.. 75% 3 hours, dead. The perp is driven by fear of getting caught and suffers from guilt and he murders the victim to take away both from his conscience..

Shawn and Ben situations is a rare events ... The family wants to hang on to that hope.
I would too. Anybody would.

 I myself will discount the white car until we hear an official report or a witness on news media telling everyone that she was going house to house looking for some place to sleep over and or she was afraid of a car and especially that part of her face turning white as a ghost..
It all sounds crazy.. It Prolly is..

We have neighbors of hers, they are here and posting, not one of them has made such a claim..
The only part I have read is that her brother has fits and that she was in fear of him..
Once I had seen his picture I have doubts about that also..

Although her acting older then what she is and being on the Internet with such claims is alarming... Still, I think this was a stranger abduction or somebody she knew as an acquaintance..
 I have doubts she would just get into a vehicle. But many of the abduction attempts near Escondido were near force or were by force and somebody could have just grabber Lindsey right off a street corner.
 It happens to adult women and I am sure it could happen to a child with ease and in seconds.

[no rose colored glasses]

I hear what you are saying, and slumber parties were fun. This seems more to me that Lindsey just didn't want to go home. After not being able to sleep at her friends house, it just seems odd she would go to another friend's house to sleep over. But what is even stranger is two sets of adults didn't even think to walk this child home 

[JessStar]

With child abductors, the child is killed with in 3 hours in about 75% of the cases... sorry to say so and my intend is not to be insensitive. Just stating the fact.
 

This needs some clarification because in a vacuum, this statistic is misleading.  What the statistic says is that OF THOSE CHILDREN WHO ARE ABDUCTED AND MURDERED, 75% of them have been murdered within 3 hours. It doesn't say that 75% of children who are abducted are murdered within 3 hours.  On the contrary, according to the Department of Justice statistics, 60% of children who are abducted by strangers are found alive.

Now, all of these statistics need to be tempered by the motivation behind the abduction.  As the motivation becomes more sinister, the likelihood that the child will be murdered increases.

[rebelgirl901]

about the white car in the area.  I have heard many different stories about a white car, from several different locals. 

we all know marylin's one. 

here is another this is coming from someone else. 
 the night she went missing, before she got to mommsen, before she crossed main (not sure exact location) she stopped at xxxxx and xxxxxxx house (i don't know them) she was asking to spend the night, they were having a slumber party.  a white car went by and she flipped out, went white, scared to death.  she asked to stay and they wouldn't let her.

This is very disturbing.  We hear from Lindsey's mom that she is terrified of the dark so you would think that since she was walking home 1/2 mile, 4 blocks, 6 blocks, whatever the distance and it was getting close to dark that she would be getting home as quickly as possible to avoid being out after dark.  Also, she has a 10 o'clock curfew and it's already after 9.  Why in this world is she at another persons house asking to spend the night?  Does she go all over town asking people if she can spend the night?  hmmmmm

Let's see...perhaps she leaves KK's house after being told she cannot spend the night, she's heading down maple toward her house and spots the white car that she has seen around town and she gets spooked, she turns around and heads back towards this other friends house to see if she can spend the night there and they tell her no.  Now she is alone again with this white car following her and nobody will let her stay over.  Poor girl, she must have been terrified.   Now this makes me angry.   They could see she was frightened but yet they turned her away to walk home all alone and it's nearly dark.  I myself have taken children home when I have learned they would be alone.  This is just heartbreaking.  This poor girl was scared and no one to help her.  I wonder if she ever mentioned to anyone that someone in a white car was following her?  Did she not think to ask someone to take her home?  This really bothers me.  If it had been me, I would have either let her stay or drove her home or at least walked home with her to make sure she was safe.  WOW!  I'm sorry but I just don't understand. 

[AZSunny]

You are so correct Rob on all of what you wrote..
 People do not want to hear the facts but they are the facts.. Stranger abductions.. 75% 3 hours, dead. The perp is driven by fear of getting caught and suffers from guilt and he murders the victim to take away both from his conscience..

Shawn and Ben situations is a rare events ... The family wants to hang on to that hope.
I would too. Anybody would.

 I myself will discount the white car until we hear an official report or a witness on news media telling everyone that she was going house to house looking for some place to sleep over and or she was afraid of a car and especially that part of her face turning white as a ghost..
It all sounds crazy.. It Prolly is..

We have neighbors of hers, they are here and posting, not one of them has made such a claim..
The only part I have read is that her brother has fits and that she was in fear of him..
Once I had seen his picture I have doubts about that also..

Although her acting older then what she is and being on the Internet with such claims is alarming... Still, I think this was a stranger abduction or somebody she knew as an acquaintance..
 I have doubts she would just get into a vehicle. But many of the abduction attempts near Escondido were near force or were by force and somebody could have just grabber Lindsey right off a street corner.
 It happens to adult women and I am sure it could happen to a child with ease and in seconds.

One of my  concerns is she was on the internet, and had posted on myspace (at 10 years old!)  She posted on a 20 year old males myspace site, and he lived in McCleary. (it had tons of Mickey Mouse stuff on it, as I recall)  I think her website name on myspace was Defender.  Which struck me as an odd choice of names.  (I read that somewhere,  and I believe that is what I saw on myspace,so if I am wrong about the name, please tell me.)  I did see the posting on the 20 year olds myspace.  Nothing alarming just a posting.  Maybe I am not hip, but my 10 year old daugher does not have a myspace account, nor has she heard of such things.  She plays on a Webkins account that is protected, that is it.(and only with a parents approval)   Are things changing so much and I am not keeping up? 

[rebelgirl901]

Why in the world would a 10 year old be wanting to find a place to spend the night. Was she afraid to go home? Was she in trouble at home? Was she not getting along at home, so she is out asking to spend the night. Something is not right with this.

That's what I'm thinking now after reading that see stopped at another persons house and asked to spend the night.  It seems as though she did not want to go home.  That is sad.

[Rob]

With child abductors, the child is killed with in 3 hours in about 75% of the cases... sorry to say so and my intend is not to be insensitive. Just stating the fact.
 

This needs some clarification because in a vacuum, this statistic is misleading.  What the statistic says is that OF THOSE CHILDREN WHO ARE ABDUCTED AND MURDERED, 75% of them have been murdered within 3 hours. It doesn't say that 75% of children who are abducted are murdered within 3 hours.  On the contrary, according to the Department of Justice statistics, 60% of children who are abducted by strangers are found alive.

Now, all of these statistics need to be tempered by the motivation behind the abduction.  As the motivation becomes more sinister, the likelihood that the child will be murdered increases.

credit chi-monkey - link in Amber's thread -

http://www.kidsearchnetwork.org/research-statistics.html

The Kidsearch Network believes that Immediate Response by an experienced search team is necessary. because, 1) there is typically over a two hour delay in making the initial missing child report (60%), and 2) the vast majority (74%) of the abducted children who are murdered are dead within three hours of the abduction. (Source: Attorney General of the State of Washington, who did a study of cases reported to law enforcement in 1997)

There are estimated to be about 100 cases per year in the US where a child is abducted and murdered. The victims of these cases are "average" children, leading normal lives, and living with normal families, typical low-risk victims. The vast majority of them are girls (76%), with the average age being slightly over 11 years of age. In 80% of cases, the initial contact between the victim and killer is within 1/4 mile of the victim's residence.

Over half (57%) of these child abduction murders are committed by a killer who is a stranger to the victim. Family involvement in this type of case is infrequent (9%). However, the relationship between the victim and the killer varies with the gender and age of the victim. The youngest females, 1-5 years old, tend to be killed by friends or acquaintances (64%), while the oldest females, 16-17 years old, tend to be killed by strangers (also 64%). The relationship between the killer and victim is different for the male victims. The youngest male victims (1-5 years old) are most likely to be killed by strangers (also 64%), as are the teenage males (13-15 years old, 60% and 16-17 years old, 58%).

The average age of killers of abducted children is around 27 years old. They are predominantly unmarried (85%) and half of them (51%) either live alone (17%) or with their parents (34%). Half of them are unemployed, and those that are employed work in unskilled or semi-skilled labor occupations. Therefore, the killers can generally be characterized as "social marginals."

Almost two-thirds of the killers (61%) had prior arrests for violent crimes, with slightly more than half of the killers' prior crimes (53%) committed against children. The most frequent prior crimes against children were rape (31% of killers) and other sexual assault (45% of killers). Sixty-seven percent of the child abduction murderers' prior crimes were similar in M.O. to the murder that was committed by the same killer.

Commonly, the killers are at the initial victim-killer contact site for a legitimate reason (66%). They either lived in the area (29%) or were engaging in some normal activity. Most of the victims of child abduction murder are victims of opportunity (57%). Only in 14 percent of cases did the killer choose his victim because of some physical characteristic of the victim. The primary motivation for the child abduction murder is sexual assault.

After the victim has been killed, 52 percent of the bodies are concealed to prevent discovery. In only 9% of cases is the body openly placed to insure its discovery.

A unique pattern of distance relationships exists in child abduction murders. The initial contact site is within 1/4 mile of the victim's last known location in 80% of cases. Conversely, the distance between the initial contact site and the murder site increases to distances greater than 1/4 mile (54%). The distance from the murder site to the body recovery site again decreases, to less than 200 feet in 72 percent of cases.

It was discovered that once the murder investigation has begun, the name of the killer is known to the police within the first week in 74% of cases.

While at times the media seems to "get in the way," in the end they are much more likely to have a positive effect on the investigation (31% of cases) than a negative one (6% of cases). In short, the media are more likely to bring witnesses forward than to aid the killer in his escape. The media had no effect at all in 63% of the investigations.

National Estimates of Missing Children (PDF)

Nonfamily Abducted Children: National Estimates and Characteristics (PDF)

Children Abducted by Family Members: National Estimates and Characteristics (PDF)

Runaway/Thrownaway Children: National Estimates and Characteristics (PDF)

Child Abuse and Neglect Statistics and Research

Statistical Data on Statuatory Rape (PDF)

Statistics on Teenagers/Juveniles as Victims (PDF)

[sunshine12]

this case is so frustrating, its so hard for me not to get carried away with all of the information that has been pulled up about adam campbell, and the local rumor mill and really stick with the facts of the case.

i will try to stick with with the ockham's razor (hopefully i spelled that right) theory.  i dont know if this would be beneficial but i am going to go back and read through the first threads and the timelines of the case and start brainstorming again from the FACTS we have (unfortunately they are few and far between)...

i think the FACTS in this case indicate a stranger/aquaintance abduction or unfortunately someone in law enforcement

[JessStar]

Rob, you post made my point. It clearly says of those children who are murdered, 75 percent are murdered within 3 hours.

[Tamikosmom]

Why in the world would a 10 year old be wanting to find a place to spend the night. Was she afraid to go home? Was she in trouble at home? Was she not getting along at home, so she is out asking to spend the night. Something is not right with this.

That's what I'm thinking now after reading that see stopped at another persons house and asked to spend the night.  It seems as though she did not want to go home.  That is sad.

Where is the info coming from that that Lindsey asked to spend the night at Michaela's home.  According to Michaela's mother the overnighter discussion occured between Lindsey and her daughter on the walk from the Baums.  In other words ... both girls were anticipating a sleepover.  Nothing out of the ordinary.  Nothing "sad".

Janet

+++++

KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1081 on: July 05, 2009, 04:00:50 AM »

According to my daughter the thought of anyone spending the night at my house was thought up on the way to my house. So, Lindsey's mom would have had reason to be worried when she did not show up by 10ish because she at that time was (to my knowledge) not aware the girls had asked me or were going to ask to spend the night at my house or that I'd said no.  I believe she was under the impression that both girls would be coming back to her house which would take them longer because Kayla has to bring along many outfits if she stays the night.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg864834#msg864834

[AZSunny]

Why in the world would a 10 year old be wanting to find a place to spend the night. Was she afraid to go home? Was she in trouble at home? Was she not getting along at home, so she is out asking to spend the night. Something is not right with this.

That's what I'm thinking now after reading that see stopped at another persons house and asked to spend the night.  It seems as though she did not want to go home.  That is sad.

Where is the info coming from that that Lindsey asked to spend the night at Michaela's home.  According to Michaela's mother the overnighter discussion occured between Lindsey and her daughter on the walk from the Baums.  In other words ... both girls were anticipating a sleepover.  Nothing out of the ordinary.  Nothing "sad".

Janet

+++++

KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1081 on: July 05, 2009, 04:00:50 AM »

According to my daughter the thought of anyone spending the night at my house was thought up on the way to my house. So, Lindsey's mom would have had reason to be worried when she did not show up by 10ish because she at that time was (to my knowledge) not aware the girls had asked me or were going to ask to spend the night at my house or that I'd said no.  I believe she was under the impression that both girls would be coming back to her house which would take them longer because Kayla has to bring along many outfits if she stays the night.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg864834#msg864834

I think they are talking about her stopping at another friends house asking to spend the night after she left Michaela's.  A request of a second friend. It is rumored she stopped there after leaving Michaels.   

[no rose colored glasses]

As of now it is rumored that she stopped at another friend's house after leaving Michaela's house, and that she was scared. And if that is true, what a shame nobody walked her home. I guess what I'm wondering is if that happened was it dark when she left the second friend's house?

[JessStar]

If this is true, and people knew she was scared, then shame on the people of McCleary to allow a scared child to walk home alone-especially if they knew or suspected the reason why she was scared. This poor child.

[no rose colored glasses]

If this is true, and people knew she was scared, then shame on the people of McCleary to allow a scared child to walk home alone-especially if they knew or suspected the reason why she was scared. This poor child.

It is very hard for me to understand this, I would never have allowed one of my kids friends to walk home alone when they were little. If this is true, I would love to know what Lindsey said when she got to the second home. You would even think the parent might have called Lindsey's mother even to walk over and walk her home.