Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 - 8/26/09

[JessStar]

I gotta go. Good Nite fellow monkeys. God Bless You Lindsey- may tomorrow bring us good news, and bring you back safely to your family. We all care- which is why we spend time here-and sometimes get overly emotional.

[no rose colored glasses]

I gotta go. Good Nite fellow monkeys. God Bless You Lindsey- may tomorrow bring us good news, and bring you back safely to your family. We all care- which is why we spend time here-and sometimes get overly emotional.

Have a good night 

[MuffyBee]

I gotta go. Good Nite fellow monkeys. God Bless You Lindsey- may tomorrow bring us good news, and bring you back safely to your family. We all care- which is why we spend time here-and sometimes get overly emotional.

Good night.

[A_News_Junkie_Monkey]

Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.

[Nut44x4]

For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 

Yep...that is a given!

[Fanny Mae]

Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.

I see no evidence that the McCleary PD or the Grays County Sheriff's office ever even made the effort. Does it look like to you that they did?

[Kat_Gram]

The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.

ty JessStar

[Fanny Mae]

The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.

ty JessStar

Except if the agreement is made before that they look they will only look for evidence of Lindsay, it can be done.

[Fanny Mae]

The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.

ty JessStar

Except if the agreement is made before that they look they will only look for evidence of Lindsay, it can be done.

To clarify, oftentimes in these kinds of searches, they will take along a DA, or City Attorney, that will assure the residents that nothing else will be held against them if they will allow a search. A person can call their own attorney to be present if this is the case. It happens every day.

I know the lawyer type can tell you otherwise, and quote the exact law and bible and verse. In a practical matter, things happen everyday that just go on and never get even brought to the surface. That is the matter of fact with LE, especially when a child that the LE really wants to find. Maybe they just don't want to find her. It appears that way to me for many reasons. JMO

[Tamikosmom]

Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.

I see no evidence that the McCleary PD or the Grays County Sheriff's office ever even made the effort. Does it look like to you that they did?

I agree. 

 

Hopefully ... there is stuff going onbehind the scenes.

Good Night Fanny Mae!  Good Night Monkeys!

Janet
7:45 PM PT

[A_News_Junkie_Monkey]

Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.

I see no evidence that the McCleary PD or the Grays County Sheriff's office ever even made the effort. Does it look like to you that they did?

Just that they went door to door asking and did the same again last week according to news reports.  I am 3000 miles away, so I can only go on the news reports.  I know they only have three officers and 6 cop cars on their force.  I have seen things brought forward that have my hinky meter wondering if LE or someone close to them is involved or involved after the fact, but otherwise - I know only what I have read, no first hand knowledge.  I know someone who has spoken to them and they have said they felt their information was taken serious and with due respect. 
Unfortunately, NG and Gretta are not there on the ground - then we might have more news footage showing if the streets are bare, being searched or what.  I know it is hard to feel so deeply that more can and should be done - I am not trying to aggravate you, but the law is the law.  People smoke pot - and they are more worried about getting hauled in for their stash than a child.  There are reasons other than guilt for people to refuse a search.  Do I personally, morally agree that there is anything more important than the safety of child - hell no.  But, I will try my best not to let my frustration with the case from keeping me from getting into spats with fellow monkeys who really just want what I want - Lindsay found and brought home. 
In the end this and all we do is not about being right - it is about the children.  Good night, fellow monkeys.

[Fanny Mae]

And to clarify on the Boise case, the dog hit on the Suburban in the DRIVEWAY on Mr. Wallis' property, AFTER the search warrant was issued. IIRC

[A_News_Junkie_Monkey]

The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.

ty JessStar

Except if the agreement is made before that they look they will only look for evidence of Lindsay, it can be done.

To clarify, oftentimes in these kinds of searches, they will take along a DA, or City Attorney, that will assure the residents that nothing else will be held against them if they will allow a search. A person can call their own attorney to be present if this is the case. It happens every day.

I know the lawyer type can tell you otherwise, and quote the exact law and bible and verse. In a practical matter, things happen everyday that just go on and never get even brought to the surface. That is the matter of fact with LE, especially when a child that the LE really wants to find. Maybe they just don't want to find her. It appears that way to me for many reasons. JMO

I have never heard of the DA or SA or a city attorney going door to door offering immunity to search for one crime only.  Can you link me to some cases of this? 

[Fanny Mae]

Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.

I see no evidence that the McCleary PD or the Grays County Sheriff's office ever even made the effort. Does it look like to you that they did?

Just that they went door to door asking and did the same again last week according to news reports.  I am 3000 miles away, so I can only go on the news reports.  I know they only have three officers and 6 cop cars on their force.  I have seen things brought forward that have my hinky meter wondering if LE or someone close to them is involved or involved after the fact, but otherwise - I know only what I have read, no first hand knowledge.  I know someone who has spoken to them and they have said they felt their information was taken serious and with due respect. 
Unfortunately, NG and Gretta are not there on the ground - then we might have more news footage showing if the streets are bare, being searched or what.  I know it is hard to feel so deeply that more can and should be done - I am not trying to aggravate you, but the law is the law.  People smoke pot - and they are more worried about getting hauled in for their stash than a child.  There are reasons other than guilt for people to refuse a search.  Do I personally, morally agree that there is anything more important than the safety of child - hell no.  But, I will try my best not to let my frustration with the case from keeping me from getting into spats with fellow monkeys who really just want what I want - Lindsay found and brought home. 
In the end this and all we do is not about being right - it is about the children.  Good night, fellow monkeys.

I did not think I was getting into "spats with fellow monkeys." I thought I was stating my opinion as I see it. You know me and who I am.  I am not trying to be right. I am trying to figure out why Lindsay is not home in her bed right now. I just don't feel that the basics have been done here, and I feel that life is going on like Lindsay was never there.

Do I care?? You bet. Am I trying to make enemies, NO! I just think the investigation of her being missing and probably dead has gone far afield, and wonder why the right questions have not been demanded from the right people.

[Fanny Mae]

The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.

ty JessStar

Except if the agreement is made before that they look they will only look for evidence of Lindsay, it can be done.

To clarify, oftentimes in these kinds of searches, they will take along a DA, or City Attorney, that will assure the residents that nothing else will be held against them if they will allow a search. A person can call their own attorney to be present if this is the case. It happens every day.

I know the lawyer type can tell you otherwise, and quote the exact law and bible and verse. In a practical matter, things happen everyday that just go on and never get even brought to the surface. That is the matter of fact with LE, especially when a child that the LE really wants to find. Maybe they just don't want to find her. It appears that way to me for many reasons. JMO

I have never heard of the DA or SA or a city attorney going door to door offering immunity to search for one crime only.  Can you link me to some cases of this? 

I can tell you that I have personal knowledge of the DA and his assistant going out on criminal cases when they needed certain info and assisting in the investigation with certain agreements being made in advance. If I gave you a link, I would have to kill you. 

[Tamikosmom]

Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.

I see no evidence that the McCleary PD or the Grays County Sheriff's office ever even made the effort. Does it look like to you that they did?

Just that they went door to door asking and did the same again last week according to news reports.  I am 3000 miles away, so I can only go on the news reports.  I know they only have three officers and 6 cop cars on their force.  I have seen things brought forward that have my hinky meter wondering if LE or someone close to them is involved or involved after the fact, but otherwise - I know only what I have read, no first hand knowledge.  I know someone who has spoken to them and they have said they felt their information was taken serious and with due respect. 
Unfortunately, NG and Gretta are not there on the ground - then we might have more news footage showing if the streets are bare, being searched or what.  I know it is hard to feel so deeply that more can and should be done - I am not trying to aggravate you, but the law is the law.  People smoke pot - and they are more worried about getting hauled in for their stash than a child.  There are reasons other than guilt for people to refuse a search.  Do I personally, morally agree that there is anything more important than the safety of child - hell no.  But, I will try my best not to let my frustration with the case from keeping me from getting into spats with fellow monkeys who really just want what I want - Lindsay found and brought home. 
In the end this and all we do is not about being right - it is about the children.  Good night, fellow monkeys.

I did not think I was getting into "spats with fellow monkeys." I thought I was stating my opinion as I see it. You know me and who I am.  I am not trying to be right. I am trying to figure out why Lindsay is not home in her bed right now. I just don't feel that the basics have been done here, and I feel that life is going on like Lindsay was never there.

Do I care?? You bet. Am I trying to make enemies, NO! I just think the investigation of her being missing and probably dead has gone far afield, and wonder why the right questions have not been demanded from the right people.

 

[Rob]

Rob ... in the process of elimination ... I cannot comprehend why ANYBODY would not cooperate with authorities in regards to questioning and searching of property when it is considered a little girl is missing.

If I lived in McCleary and ... the authorities arrived at my door and requested to search my residence and property.  I would step aside and ... instruct them to go for it!

I do not believe for a second if those residence and properties between 5th on Maple and the Baum residence have not been search ... it is because residents would not give permission.

Janet

BUMPED

Janet, I don't ignore your posts. It's just that we have known each other on three boards for so long that I think you probably know that I am a Constitutionalist, (and where I stand on a blanket wide search), as are you. I know that you are Canadian and live your own personal life as if you had these same rights and guarantees. It's part of God's plan for man and woman to be free and those rights are guaranteed by God, not a government. These right are universal and not unique to only America.

I want Lindsey found, just as everyone else does. And just as you may not comprehend why anyone may or may not have a valid or invalid reason for opening their doors - I understand... you're not a criminal. There are many others that are not involved with Lindsey's disappearance, but maybe have a pot farm in the basement or betting slips all over the living room from a bookmaking operation.

All that said, we can't go kicking in doors - that's Germany 1934, Poland 1939, Czechoslovakia 1939-40... we don't allow that and live with-in the Framework. The question is - where is the balance? When a child is missing there needs to be some understanding that a pot farmer is not going to face charges if he cooperates, same for the bookmaker. The LE asked for cooperation and have received a fair amount, but not a total amount, given the article stating that the have went back and talked to people missed the first time through.

I would love to see all the residences open their doors and from what I have read many have and allowed their property to be searched.

BTW - when we don't live with-in the Framework - Japanese interment camps are a possibility under the guise of a common good. I'm sure you understand what I am saying.

[Tamikosmom]

Tamikosmom, doubledecker, Treehouse, Rob, KaraK and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

[Tamikosmom]

Rob

I never implied that any constitutional rights should be violated.  I just wanted to know if an attempt was made by LE to get permission from each resident in that two block stretch to search homes and property.  I believe that maybe Lindsey had an encounter on that stretch ... not necessarily a homeowner and ... her body is lying on one of these properties out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.

Janet

[Rob]

Rob

I never implied that any constitutional rights should be violated.  I just wanted to know if an attempt was made by LE to get permission from each resident in that two block stretch to search homes and property.  I believe that maybe Lindsey had an encounter on that stretch ... not necessarily a homeowner and ... her body is lying on one of these properties out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.

Janet

highly doubtful her body is lying around one of these homes. The dogs would have pulled a handler directly to it. A dog leading a handler to a property is probably cause for a search... as in a drug bust where drugs are concealed with in a vehicle.

That's different then a body being concealed in a home or in a freezer. A dog would probably have a hard time smelling a cadaver in a freezer in a basement - and likewise hidden in a house unless the windows were open or you had a very very good dog. However, a cadaver dog can smell decaying flesh for quite some distance - and - it's a considerable factor that even hidden in a house - a body could be detected by a dog in the vicinity.