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Author Topic: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 - 8/26/09  (Read 398345 times)
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JessStar
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« Reply #1620 on: August 12, 2009, 06:09:20 PM »

Does any Monkeys know if it illegal for the police interrogate a minor?

Janet

This is a very complex question because of the use of the term "interrogate."  That has a very specific meaning.  Let me answer your question this way.  Full Custodial Interrogation of a minor outside of the juvenile justice system is generally impermissible.  However, the police are certainly allowed to question a minor whom they believe may have committed a crime.  And if the child makes an admission against interest (i.e., a confession), it's just as binding as if an adult made it.  In other words, police may delay turning a juvenile over to juvenile authorities or to his/her family in order to ask the child some questions, but they cannot use delay or prolonged exploratory questioning to enhance the compulsion inherent in in-custody interrogations.  Of course, Miranda applies if the interrogation is custodial.

Does that answer your question?


No entirely.

JessStar ... I will be the devil's advocate.

When it is considered that a child may not fully comprehend the legal ramifications encompassing a confession during a police interrogation/questioning in the course of an investigation ... something does not seem right.

Would a child not be required under the law to have legal representation appointed if questioned/interrogated when it is considered that during the course of that questioning/interrogation his/her words may implicate him/her in a crime.

JessStar ... thank you for your response.

Janet

Janet, as a former boss once told me when I just started practicing law, "If I wanted a devil's advocate, I would have hired the devil!"  LOL  Anyway, I anticipated that question, and I think answered it in my second post.  It's a question of fact for the Court.  What that means is it becomes a risk/benefit analysis for the interrogator.  Say, for example, a police officer walks into a fast food restaurant full of 13-18 year old kids on a Friday night.  He says, "Alright kids, I know there's a keg party tonight, where is it?"  At that point, the police officer smells alcohol on the 13 year old's breath and asks, "Have you been drinking?"  And the kid says, "Yes."  Admissible, confession, no doubt about it.

Now, let's change the facts.  Say the police officer says, "Kid, have you been drinking?"  And the kid says, "No."  And the policeman says, "I'm taking you down to the station."  By the time he gets the kid to the police station, his car wreaks from the smell of alcohol.  As he's transporting the kid into the police station, he notices something--the 13 year old boy is mentally disabled and has the mental capacity of a 6 year old.  So he says, "Look kid, you're never going to see your mom again unless you tell me the truth."  And the kid says, "Ok, yes, I was drinking.  And not only that, I robbed the bank last night and stabbed the teller"  Not admissible, no confession, no doubt about it.

I say this not to poke fun, but to stress that there can be no bright line rule because kids can be perfectly capable of understanding the ramifications of his/her acts.  The law already presumes that kids below a certain age are incapable of committing a crime.  So we're not talking about kids generally in the birth to 8 or 9 or 10 year old age (or older in some states).  Those kids are already protected--it doesn't matter if they confess or not, the law presumes they can't commit a crime, so the juvenile justice system deals with them.  We're talking about that class of kids where the mind starts to develop to the point that they are perfectly capable of understanding.  So the law strikes a balance--if the child is able to understand based on the factors I outlined in my previous post, we're good to go.  If he/she isn't, well then there's a problem with the admissibility of the evidence.

I hope that makes sense.  By the way, the law I discussed in my previous posts is the law in the State of Washington.  Other states may be different.
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Leroy
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« Reply #1621 on: August 12, 2009, 06:10:14 PM »

What about a magnetic or cling missing poster? One that will cling to semi-trucks? Ask the post office, UPS trucks, short and long term trucking companies in the area, to put the cling up on the back of their vehicle? Kind of like a mobile mini-billboard.

Actually, I have a database at work that has just about every trucking company in the US in it...local and long haul carriers.  I can do a search for those that are in the area...and for some of them I may have contact info of who to speak with.
Great job Leroy!

Can I post a website here that shows what they offer?  Not sure about the rules here, but in addition to banners this company also makes the magnetic/cling posters for vehicles you are talking about and I think that is a great idea because driving to Aberdeen today there were lots and lots of log trucks.  I asked for a price quote on both.

I think it is okay for you to post the website.
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« Reply #1622 on: August 12, 2009, 06:10:30 PM »

I saw that on WS about Kara's daughter having another myspace page, along with some other nonsense that I was reading 
Yeah,I skipped right over a few of the"We are THE best of the internet"posts    

KaraK's daughter had a total of 6-7 MS pages.All of them stated her age different but at least 4 of them were made on or near the same day so she may have forgotten her pw or something then made another.
Her Fistey(what kinda name is that?)is now set at private but not a couple of the new ones.

Maddening isn't it?    I guess nobody learned anykind of lesson.
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« Reply #1623 on: August 12, 2009, 06:11:25 PM »

What about a magnetic or cling missing poster? One that will cling to semi-trucks? Ask the post office, UPS trucks, short and long term trucking companies in the area, to put the cling up on the back of their vehicle? Kind of like a mobile mini-billboard.

Actually, I have a database at work that has just about every trucking company in the US in it...local and long haul carriers.  I can do a search for those that are in the area...and for some of them I may have contact info of who to speak with.
That's a great idea 
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sherip
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« Reply #1624 on: August 12, 2009, 06:12:01 PM »

What about a magnetic or cling missing poster? One that will cling to semi-trucks? Ask the post office, UPS trucks, short and long term trucking companies in the area, to put the cling up on the back of their vehicle? Kind of like a mobile mini-billboard.

Actually, I have a database at work that has just about every trucking company in the US in it...local and long haul carriers.  I can do a search for those that are in the area...and for some of them I may have contact info of who to speak with.
Great job Leroy!

Can I post a website here that shows what they offer?  Not sure about the rules here, but in addition to banners this company also makes the magnetic/cling posters for vehicles you are talking about and I think that is a great idea because driving to Aberdeen today there were lots and lots of log trucks.  I asked for a price quote on both.
I think you can post a link here.The more help the better it is for Lindsey.

http://www.extremevinylsigns.com

It shows some samples of what can be printed.
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JessStar
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« Reply #1625 on: August 12, 2009, 06:14:11 PM »

I sure wish we would get some info, any info, I'm afraid LE doesn't have anything.
I sure hope they have more than what we have.   

Karma and No Rose -- I think they have more than they are revealing.  Unlike Florida with its Sunshine Laws, this waiting patiently can become nerve racking.  I do, however, believe they have more, a lot more.  I don't think they are as incompetent as some have asserted, I think they are keeping things close to the chest.  JMHO  And I do know for a fact that some of the info obtained here from research has been shared with them.  I only wish there was more public support in the community to bring Linesey home.
I hope you are right.I'm not saying the LE are incompetent,I'm just not sure they have much to go on.I wonder if Melissa and KaraK know they have to try their hardest to keep Lindsey's name and face out there?They did have some woman from a search center place there in McCleary and I wonder what happened to her?Blonde lady,was at the last vigil.They should be holding vigils every week.

Karma, they had been provided a space with phone lines, etc. but it was taken back.  I don't think the Baums have the resouces to do posters, etc.  And it needs to be organized, etc.  It really is a pity, but, as we all know and are so sensitive to, a little girl's safe return can depend upon it.  Because of limited resources, I heard members of LE are volunteering their time and they do have a space about 10 miles away.

I've been thinking a lot about how we can help.  The problem is, I still haven't come up with a plan.  This is a town of 1500.  Posters aren't going to do much unless they extend out to the outlying areas.  Everyone already knows about the case in McCleary.  The word needs to travel beyond McCleary.  But where?  And how do we accomplish that when we have a town full of people that don't want to help?  One thing that may be quick, easy and cheap is to find out if there are any public access channels on the local cable networks.  You know, the channels that announce upcoming community events and such, and see if they're running Lindsey's photo and reward message.  They may even be willing to donate space.  That will reach into many diverse households, and anyone that channel surfs (which most people do) will come across it eventually.





JessStar are you local?  I am very serious about helping get her face into the spotlight.  I also have some access to resources for printing color flyers.  I e-mailed the LindseyBaum.com with my contact info today so I can talk to someone there about printing a couple of banners to hang along the Highway - If I dont hear from them by tomorrow I will try to call Melissa Baum, I imagine she can be located thru directory assistance.

 



Unfortunately, no, I am not.  I live over 3000 miles away.   Sad   Why, what do you have in mind?
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pink angel
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« Reply #1626 on: August 12, 2009, 06:23:13 PM »

What about a magnetic or cling missing poster? One that will cling to semi-trucks? Ask the post office, UPS trucks, short and long term trucking companies in the area, to put the cling up on the back of their vehicle? Kind of like a mobile mini-billboard.
That's another great idea.Scott Williams is a truck driver,maybe he could ask his company?
What about a magnetic or cling missing poster? One that will cling to semi-trucks? Ask the post office, UPS trucks, short and long term trucking companies in the area, to put the cling up on the back of their vehicle? Kind of like a mobile mini-billboard.

Actually, I have a database at work that has just about every trucking company in the US in it...local and long haul carriers.  I can do a search for those that are in the area...and for some of them I may have contact info of who to speak with.
Great job Leroy!

Can I post a website here that shows what they offer?  Not sure about the rules here, but in addition to banners this company also makes the magnetic/cling posters for vehicles you are talking about and I think that is a great idea because driving to Aberdeen today there were lots and lots of log trucks.  I asked for a price quote on both.
Good idea. Maybe they can give us a price break seeing how it's for a missing girl.

Thanks to both of you.

11x14 or 16x20 are both sizes that would work and are standard on window/vinyl clings. Make sure you tell them it will include a photograph.

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« Reply #1627 on: August 12, 2009, 06:25:45 PM »

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« Reply #1628 on: August 12, 2009, 06:35:32 PM »



Pink, that is beautiful!! Wow!  Makes me work harder.
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« Reply #1629 on: August 12, 2009, 06:37:37 PM »

Another beautiful picture  an angelic monkey
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sherip
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« Reply #1630 on: August 12, 2009, 06:41:32 PM »

I sure wish we would get some info, any info, I'm afraid LE doesn't have anything.
I sure hope they have more than what we have.   
 



Karma and No Rose -- I think they have more than they are revealing.  Unlike Florida with its Sunshine Laws, this waiting patiently can become nerve racking.  I do, however, believe they have more, a lot more.  I don't think they are as incompetent as some have asserted, I think they are keeping things close to the chest.  JMHO  And I do know for a fact that some of the info obtained here from research has been shared with them.  I only wish there was more public support in the community to bring Linesey home.
I hope you are right.I'm not saying the LE are incompetent,I'm just not sure they have much to go on.I wonder if Melissa and KaraK know they have to try their hardest to keep Lindsey's name and face out there?They did have some woman from a search center place there in McCleary and I wonder what happened to her?Blonde lady,was at the last vigil.They should be holding vigils every week.

Karma, they had been provided a space with phone lines, etc. but it was taken back.  I don't think the Baums have the resouces to do posters, etc.  And it needs to be organized, etc.  It really is a pity, but, as we all know and are so sensitive to, a little girl's safe return can depend upon it.  Because of limited resources, I heard members of LE are volunteering their time and they do have a space about 10 miles away.

I've been thinking a lot about how we can help.  The problem is, I still haven't come up with a plan.  This is a town of 1500.  Posters aren't going to do much unless they extend out to the outlying areas.  Everyone already knows about the case in McCleary.  The word needs to travel beyond McCleary.  But where?  And how do we accomplish that when we have a town full of people that don't want to help?  One thing that may be quick, easy and cheap is to find out if there are any public access channels on the local cable networks.  You know, the channels that announce upcoming community events and such, and see if they're running Lindsey's photo and reward message.  They may even be willing to donate space.  That will reach into many diverse households, and anyone that channel surfs (which most people do) will come across it eventually.





JessStar are you local?  I am very serious about helping get her face into the spotlight.  I also have some access to resources for printing color flyers.  I e-mailed the LindseyBaum.com with my contact info today so I can talk to someone there about printing a couple of banners to hang along the Highway - If I dont hear from them by tomorrow I will try to call Melissa Baum, I imagine she can be located thru directory assistance.

 



Unfortunately, no, I am not.  I live over 3000 miles away.   Sad   Why, what do you have in mind?


We'll since you are that far away legal advice will work! Smile

I just contacted someone from the Tacoma News Tribune that I know to see if it is possible for an ad to be placed giving information where people could by a door cling or vinyl sign's with Lindsey's information on it (maybe trucking company's like some have suggested).  If I got the vinyl sign company to agree to take orders that they would ship directly to people who placed orders - is there any problem with this?  Since they would be buying directly from a manufacturer then a non-profit would not have to be set up correct?  Do you see any problem with this idea? 

People here on this site can also forward information to whoever they think would help by purchasing these things and placing them on there vehicles so we can all work on trying to get her face out there and the media interested.

Thoughts?
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mamacrazy30
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« Reply #1631 on: August 12, 2009, 06:49:52 PM »


oh pink. we have not forgotten her.  i think about her every day
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OMG  thats soooo Anthony.  (credits to miss Mae)
KarmaRoundUp
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« Reply #1632 on: August 12, 2009, 07:41:54 PM »

I saw that on WS about Kara's daughter having another myspace page, along with some other nonsense that I was reading 
Yeah,I skipped right over a few of the"We are THE best of the internet"posts    

KaraK's daughter had a total of 6-7 MS pages.All of them stated her age different but at least 4 of them were made on or near the same day so she may have forgotten her pw or something then made another.
Her Fistey(what kinda name is that?)is now set at private but not a couple of the new ones.

Maddening isn't it?    I guess nobody learned anykind of lesson.
Seems that way right?I think the kids make these MS's at their aunts(Floodstrom?)house and access them there also.
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« Reply #1633 on: August 12, 2009, 07:43:58 PM »

What about a magnetic or cling missing poster? One that will cling to semi-trucks? Ask the post office, UPS trucks, short and long term trucking companies in the area, to put the cling up on the back of their vehicle? Kind of like a mobile mini-billboard.

Actually, I have a database at work that has just about every trucking company in the US in it...local and long haul carriers.  I can do a search for those that are in the area...and for some of them I may have contact info of who to speak with.
Great job Leroy!

Can I post a website here that shows what they offer?  Not sure about the rules here, but in addition to banners this company also makes the magnetic/cling posters for vehicles you are talking about and I think that is a great idea because driving to Aberdeen today there were lots and lots of log trucks.  I asked for a price quote on both.
I think you can post a link here.The more help the better it is for Lindsey.

http://www.extremevinylsigns.com

It shows some samples of what can be printed.
Thank you Sherip.
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Karma Is Coming

Justice for Natalee Holloway!

Rest In Peace Sweet Angels

Help Light Lindsey's Way Home
mamacrazy30
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« Reply #1634 on: August 12, 2009, 07:44:13 PM »

I saw that on WS about Kara's daughter having another myspace page, along with some other nonsense that I was reading 
Yeah,I skipped right over a few of the"We are THE best of the internet"posts    

KaraK's daughter had a total of 6-7 MS pages.All of them stated her age different but at least 4 of them were made on or near the same day so she may have forgotten her pw or something then made another.
Her Fistey(what kinda name is that?)is now set at private but not a couple of the new ones.

Maddening isn't it?    I guess nobody learned anykind of lesson.
Seems that way right?I think the kids make these MS's at their aunts(Floodstrom?)house and access them there also.
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OMG  thats soooo Anthony.  (credits to miss Mae)
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« Reply #1635 on: August 12, 2009, 07:45:32 PM »


Beautiful Pink!
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Justice for Natalee Holloway!

Rest In Peace Sweet Angels

Help Light Lindsey's Way Home
JessStar
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« Reply #1636 on: August 12, 2009, 07:48:05 PM »

Sherip, I don't see any problem on your end as long as sales tax is paid. The manufacturer will need to determine if it could sell directly to buyers as the mfg would be responsible for collecting and remitting the tax.

Hope that helps.
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« Reply #1637 on: August 12, 2009, 07:48:45 PM »

Have a good night you all,I'm trying to get off this puter earlier to prep myself for"back to work"mode.

Praying for you Lindsey.


 an angelic monkey
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Justice for Natalee Holloway!

Rest In Peace Sweet Angels

Help Light Lindsey's Way Home
JessStar
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« Reply #1638 on: August 12, 2009, 07:54:06 PM »

Good nite Karma. Praying for Lindsey for sure.
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« Reply #1639 on: August 12, 2009, 07:55:00 PM »

Have a good night you all,I'm trying to get off this puter earlier to prep myself for"back to work"mode.

Praying for you Lindsey.


 an angelic monkey
Have a good evening  an angelic monkey
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