Natalee Case Discussion #823 8/13/09 - 9/06/09

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

I'm sorry for your son and DIL's loss.       I can imagine how you felt having other obligations.  Having been throuigh one miscarriage, I remember well the feelings.  I hope the future holds some good things for them.

My questions regarding the source of the articles was just an effort to stir the pot....

Klaas will have to make another emoticon for that!!!

So many hopes and dreams ... gone.  I am sorry for you 2NJ.

Considering this is DIL's second miscarriage ... she will be going through tests prior to getting pregnant again in an attempt to pinpoint the problem.  Outwardly ... she looks great.  She eats healthy and exercises daily.  Other than a little big queasy in the morning for about a month ... she felt good.  It doesn't make sense.

 

Janet

[texasmom]

As Beth stated in the Larry King video I posted last night, there is much more to the story than we've seen from the portions of the hidden camera confession of Joran Van der Sloot to Patrick Van der Eem.  Those statements do confirm that Joran was quite possibly one of the last people to see Natalee alive.  From his statements to Patrick, he wasn't even sure she was dead when he called Daury to help him get rid of her.  Natalee had never had a seizure before, if she indeed suffered one that night it was probably because she had been drugged, and violently attacked IMO.  Other statements that Joran made during his conversations with Patrick confirm that much more happened that night than he had admitted before. 

I would assume that even in Dutch law, disposing of a live human being who is unconscious or in a coma, is not viewed quite the same as disposing of a body.  Surely it is at least considered the equivalent to manslaughter.

Joran's conversations with Patrick don't eliminate or distance any of the suspects for me, I know in my heart that the complete story has yet to be told.  JMO

It is also my opinion based on many responses I've read following the Lifetime Natalee Holloway movie, that Joran's statements to Patrick have not made Natalee Holloway's disappearance in Aruba a distant memory for many Americans. 

[texasmom]

Janet,

I'm sorry for your son and DIL's loss.       I can imagine how you felt having other obligations.  Having been throuigh one miscarriage, I remember well the feelings.  I hope the future holds some good things for them.

My questions regarding the source of the articles was just an effort to stir the pot....

Klaas will have to make another emoticon for that!!!

So many hopes and dreams ... gone.  I am sorry for you 2NJ.

Considering this is DIL's second miscarriage ... she will be going through tests prior to getting pregnant again in an attempt to pinpoint the problem.  Outwardly ... she looks great.  She eats healthy and exercises daily.  Other than a little big queasy in the morning for about a month ... she felt good.  It doesn't make sense.

 

Janet

So sorry to hear of your family's loss Janet.   

[2NJSons_Mom]

Janet,

I'm sorry for your son and DIL's loss.       I can imagine how you felt having other obligations.  Having been throuigh one miscarriage, I remember well the feelings.  I hope the future holds some good things for them.

My questions regarding the source of the articles was just an effort to stir the pot....

Klaas will have to make another emoticon for that!!!

So many hopes and dreams ... gone.  I am sorry for you 2NJ.

Considering this is DIL's second miscarriage ... she will be going through tests prior to getting pregnant again in an attempt to pinpoint the problem.  Outwardly ... she looks great.  She eats healthy and exercises daily.  Other than a little big queasy in the morning for about a month ... she felt good.  It doesn't make sense.

 

Janet

Following my miscarriage, I had two healthy sons....doc told me when something is wrong, these things happen....not all seeds in a package come up when planted.  As I said before, hopefully better outcomes will be be in the future...I wish them & you the best.

[2NJSons_Mom]

As Beth stated in the Larry King video I posted last night, there is much more to the story than we've seen from the portions of the hidden camera confession of Joran Van der Sloot to Patrick Van der Eem.  Those statements do confirm that Joran was quite possibly one of the last people to see Natalee alive.  From his statements to Patrick, he wasn't even sure she was dead when he called Daury to help him get rid of her.  Natalee had never had a seizure before, if she indeed suffered one that night it was probably because she had been drugged, and violently attacked IMO.  Other statements that Joran made during his conversations with Patrick confirm that much more happened that night than he had admitted before. 

I would assume that even in Dutch law, disposing of a live human being who is unconscious or in a coma, is not viewed quite the same as disposing of a body.  Surely it is at least considered the equivalent to manslaughter.

Joran's conversations with Patrick don't eliminate or distance any of the suspects for me, I know in my heart that the complete story has yet to be told.  JMO

It is also my opinion based on many responses I've read following the Lifetime Natalee Holloway movie, that Joran's statements to Patrick have not made Natalee Holloway's disappearance in Aruba a distant memory for many Americans. 

Nicely said, TM.....I hope you are right about the memory of Natalee Holloway for Americans. 

[Tamikosmom]

Peter Devries had it all figured out.  Only Joran would take the fall but in all likelyhood would not be held accountable.

Janet

++++++


02 - 15 - 2008 / 11:30 a.m. (G.M.T.)

NO REARREST FOR JORAN: HOW DO YOU
EXPLAIN THAT TO HER RELATIVES.....?

Joran van der Sloot will not be rearrested for his role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, according to a decision handed down by the Court on Aruba last night. This is not altogether surprising, considering an earlier pronouncement by the examining judge that the case is now technically ‘on appeal’, but it is difficult to explain. The main problem is that Dutch law does not provide for detention on remand for disposing of a body. It is indeed an offence which carries a maximum penalty of six months imprisonment, but one can’t be kept in custody pending such a sentence.

- INCOMPREHENSIBLE AND INCONCEIVABLE -

If, during the drives, Joran had admitted to doing something to Natalee, this would imply a different – more serious – offence, which would indeed have allowed for detention on remand.

However legally correct this may be, this approach remains incomprehensible and inconceivable to Natalee’s relatives. During five separate drives, Joran admitted to being present when Natalie died, that he didn’t go for help but rather had her body dumped in the ocean so that the police and her relatives could never find out what happened. As soon as the detectives’ investigations showed that he certainly must have been involved in the disappearance however, he chose to lie to the world in a despicable manner about his actions and movements on the night concerned.

- REWARD FOR SABOTAGING INVESTIGATION -

It is a bitter pill to swallow – one that I have also come across in other cases – where a suspect has disposed of a body and managed to get off scot-free. Why does one dispose of the body? It is almost invariably to prevent the police from establishing exactly what happened to the person, usually because an offence has been committed. Also, for intentionally sabotaging the resulting investigation, one isn’t punished but rather rewarded because one cannot be arrested. What is just is not always fair. I will try to explain the logic of this to Beth Holloway, Natalee’s mother, but I doubt I will succeed.

In addition, the Court on Aruba stated that it’s ‘impression’ that Joran is a systematic liar further underpinned its decision. Usually, the fact that someone tells a pack of lies in a case concerning life and death should be a valid reason on its own to arrest the suspect, if only for the opportunity to get to the bottom of the matter.

- ADMISSION WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE? -

One of the things that Joran is certainly lying about is that his admissions in the car were made under the influence of marijuana. I must reiterate that Joran constantly admitted his role during five separate drives. During some of them, he did indeed smoke a joint, as is his habit. However, the TV footage shows clearly that during some of the drives he did NOT smoke, or did so only AFTER Natalee’s case was discussed. And never for a single moment did Joran say anything during a subsequent drive to intimate that last time, he had been stoned and had sprouted a lot of hot air. On the contrary. Each time, Joran reconfirmed his involvement in the disappearance, augmenting his confessions with new details. And during this frequently repeated account while ‘under the influence’, he also provided precise responses to the unanswered questions that police and justice still have in this case.

Moreover, anyone who has ever smoked marijuana knows that it effect does not prompt you to admit to unsolved crimes. Where that is the case, police stations in the Netherlands and elsewhere would be overflowing.

- INVESTIGATION CONTINUES-

For all clarity, the fact that Van der Sloot has not been taken into custody on remand does not mean that the judicial investigation against him has come to an end. Far from it. The Public Prosecutor is working hard on the case in which Joran van der Sloot is still prime suspect.

Peter R. de Vries

 

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

I'm sorry for your son and DIL's loss.       I can imagine how you felt having other obligations.  Having been throuigh one miscarriage, I remember well the feelings.  I hope the future holds some good things for them.

My questions regarding the source of the articles was just an effort to stir the pot....

Klaas will have to make another emoticon for that!!!

So many hopes and dreams ... gone.  I am sorry for you 2NJ.

Considering this is DIL's second miscarriage ... she will be going through tests prior to getting pregnant again in an attempt to pinpoint the problem.  Outwardly ... she looks great.  She eats healthy and exercises daily.  Other than a little big queasy in the morning for about a month ... she felt good.  It doesn't make sense.

 

Janet

Following my miscarriage, I had two healthy sons....doc told me when something is wrong, these things happen....not all seeds in a package come up when planted.  As I said before, hopefully better outcomes will be be in the future...I wish them & you the best.

2NJ

I believe that like you DIL and son will eventually welcome children into their lives but ... right now they both hurt so much while attempting to stay strong for one another.  Their hurt is my hurt.

Hey ... my faith is being testing.  While hubby is willing to accept God's Will even when his heart is breaking ... I tend to take a while to bow.  I can talk the talk to others but when it comes to walking the walk in my own life ... I fall short.  I am still harboring a lot of anger inside that I have not shared until this moment.

texasmom ... thank you.

Good Night All!

Janet
8:35 PM PT

[Tamikosmom]

Peter Devries had it all figured out.  Only Joran would take the fall but in all likelyhood would not be held accountable.

Janet

++++++


02 - 15 - 2008 / 11:30 a.m. (G.M.T.)

NO REARREST FOR JORAN: HOW DO YOU
EXPLAIN THAT TO HER RELATIVES.....?

Joran van der Sloot will not be rearrested for his role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, according to a decision handed down by the Court on Aruba last night. This is not altogether surprising, considering an earlier pronouncement by the examining judge that the case is now technically ‘on appeal’, but it is difficult to explain. The main problem is that Dutch law does not provide for detention on remand for disposing of a body. It is indeed an offence which carries a maximum penalty of six months imprisonment, but one can’t be kept in custody pending such a sentence.

- INCOMPREHENSIBLE AND INCONCEIVABLE -

If, during the drives, Joran had admitted to doing something to Natalee, this would imply a different – more serious – offence, which would indeed have allowed for detention on remand.

However legally correct this may be, this approach remains incomprehensible and inconceivable to Natalee’s relatives. During five separate drives, Joran admitted to being present when Natalie died, that he didn’t go for help but rather had her body dumped in the ocean so that the police and her relatives could never find out what happened. As soon as the detectives’ investigations showed that he certainly must have been involved in the disappearance however, he chose to lie to the world in a despicable manner about his actions and movements on the night concerned.

- REWARD FOR SABOTAGING INVESTIGATION -

It is a bitter pill to swallow – one that I have also come across in other cases – where a suspect has disposed of a body and managed to get off scot-free. Why does one dispose of the body? It is almost invariably to prevent the police from establishing exactly what happened to the person, usually because an offence has been committed. Also, for intentionally sabotaging the resulting investigation, one isn’t punished but rather rewarded because one cannot be arrested. What is just is not always fair. I will try to explain the logic of this to Beth Holloway, Natalee’s mother, but I doubt I will succeed.

In addition, the Court on Aruba stated that it’s ‘impression’ that Joran is a systematic liar further underpinned its decision. Usually, the fact that someone tells a pack of lies in a case concerning life and death should be a valid reason on its own to arrest the suspect, if only for the opportunity to get to the bottom of the matter.

- ADMISSION WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE? -

One of the things that Joran is certainly lying about is that his admissions in the car were made under the influence of marijuana. I must reiterate that Joran constantly admitted his role during five separate drives. During some of them, he did indeed smoke a joint, as is his habit. However, the TV footage shows clearly that during some of the drives he did NOT smoke, or did so only AFTER Natalee’s case was discussed. And never for a single moment did Joran say anything during a subsequent drive to intimate that last time, he had been stoned and had sprouted a lot of hot air. On the contrary. Each time, Joran reconfirmed his involvement in the disappearance, augmenting his confessions with new details. And during this frequently repeated account while ‘under the influence’, he also provided precise responses to the unanswered questions that police and justice still have in this case.

Moreover, anyone who has ever smoked marijuana knows that it effect does not prompt you to admit to unsolved crimes. Where that is the case, police stations in the Netherlands and elsewhere would be overflowing.

- INVESTIGATION CONTINUES-

For all clarity, the fact that Van der Sloot has not been taken into custody on remand does not mean that the judicial investigation against him has come to an end. Far from it. The Public Prosecutor is working hard on the case in which Joran van der Sloot is still prime suspect.

Peter R. de Vries

 

http://www.peterrdevries.com/news-norearrest.htm

[billb's daughter]

As Beth stated in the Larry King video I posted last night, there is much more to the story than we've seen from the portions of the hidden camera confession of Joran Van der Sloot to Patrick Van der Eem.  Those statements do confirm that Joran was quite possibly one of the last people to see Natalee alive.  From his statements to Patrick, he wasn't even sure she was dead when he called Daury to help him get rid of her.  Natalee had never had a seizure before, if she indeed suffered one that night it was probably because she had been drugged, and violently attacked IMO.  Other statements that Joran made during his conversations with Patrick confirm that much more happened that night than he had admitted before. 

I would assume that even in Dutch law, disposing of a live human being who is unconscious or in a coma, is not viewed quite the same as disposing of a body.  Surely it is at least considered the equivalent to manslaughter.

Joran's conversations with Patrick don't eliminate or distance any of the suspects for me, I know in my heart that the complete story has yet to be told.  JMO

It is also my opinion based on many responses I've read following the Lifetime Natalee Holloway movie, that Joran's statements to Patrick have not made Natalee Holloway's disappearance in Aruba a distant memory for many Americans. 

I completely agree TM......

[texasmom]

Good night Janet.   

[texasmom]

Hi billb!   

I'm so glad you're back!  Hope you had a good trip! 

[billb's daughter]

cajun miracle,

If you check in today.....I saw Tamikosmom logged in this afternoon!!   

Thanks 2NJ. Hope she is well and rested.

Thanks cajun miracle

Just minutes prior to leaving for our getaway to Vancouver Island ... my youngest son called and his wife had been admitted to hospital.  She had a miscarriage ... the second in a year.  We stayed home for a couple of days to be support.  However ... DIL parents drove across the line and filled that roll by staylng at their home.  With heavy hearts hubby and I left for the Island on Monday.  We had committed ourselves to looking after three year old grandson for a week as Mom began a new job.  Daycare kicks in next week.  We did have a very special week with K. while at the same time keeping in constant touch with younger son and wife.  My heart breaks for them.  I feel so helpless.

Janet

My prayers to your son and DIL Janet.....

[billb's daughter]

Hi billb!   

I'm so glad you're back!  Hope you had a good trip! 

I did. Thanks TM..
I logged on a couple times from Guam but it was late late for the night crew....all were sleeping safely in their monkey nests...Guam a day ahad and 17 hours ahead of California (PT) time...

[billb's daughter]

I hope all good monkeys are having a Great Labor Day weekend....
We are here for the duration aruba.....Justice for Natalee will be served......
Tick Tock.....

[texasmom]

Hi billb!   

I'm so glad you're back!  Hope you had a good trip! 

I did. Thanks TM..
I logged on a couple times from Guam but it was late late for the night crew....all were sleeping safely in their monkey nests...Guam a day ahad and 17 hours ahead of California (PT) time...

Yes, it was nice to see that you'd been here.      I'm glad you had a good trip!

[texasmom]

I hope all good monkeys are having a Great Labor Day weekend....
We are here for the duration aruba.....Justice for Natalee will be served......
Tick Tock.....

[2NJSons_Mom]

I hope all good monkeys are having a Great Labor Day weekend....
We are here for the duration aruba.....Justice for Natalee will be served......
Tick Tock.....

Thank you, billb...Glad you are back on the mainland.  We are here for the duration....Yes, indeedy....

I am preparing for Labor Day celebrations and also an out of town trip.  I do hope you all keep on keeping on while I'm out of the loop.  I know you will be here.....

I'll be back.......haha     

[hotping]

Janet...My Thoughts and Prayers are with You and Your Family! 

[hotping]

Hi billb......Glad to see You are Safely Back from Your trip....

[hotping]

I hope all good monkeys are having a Great Labor Day weekend....
We are here for the duration aruba.....Justice for Natalee will be served......
Tick Tock.....

Thanks billb! And Thanks TM for the Tick Tock Clock.......