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Author Topic: Lindsey Baum # 4 8/26/09 - 9/28/09  (Read 326728 times)
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« Reply #1200 on: September 25, 2009, 12:05:28 PM »

Last revised 7-27-2009.
         
  Copyright 2005 International K-9 Search and Rescue Services. All rights reserved.
 
dd, I know more searches were done, does not necessarily mean a report was submitted.  Reading is a wonderful gift as versus . . . !


yes it was submitted.  And ignored.

yes, it makes this so sad that what is a viable lead . . . nothing.
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« Reply #1201 on: September 25, 2009, 12:13:34 PM »

dd, do you have a link or pix of KK's sons' arm injury that happened about the time Lindsey went missing?  I'm trying to sort a couple things out.
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« Reply #1202 on: September 25, 2009, 12:15:28 PM »

It is comforting to learn from DD that Harry Oakes' canine search a short time following Lindsey Baum's disappearance was not the last canine search.  It would sure be interesting to know what were the findings revealed in Oakes' report submitted on 8/31.

I will email LE/FBI today requesting an answer to why the findings of Harry Oakes' canine searches are not taken seriously.  I do not expect an answer but ... not allowing the Lindsey Baum case to become cold is my mission on the forum and behind the scenes through emails.

Janet
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« Reply #1203 on: September 25, 2009, 12:23:15 PM »

I have to say this.  And I will say it here because I know everyone reads here. 

"IF" we believe Harry Oakes, then sad to say Lindsey is no longer with us... I will be trashed over this I know, but it is the truth and we need to know the truth.  Notice I say "IF" we "believe" HO... Either we don't believe him or we do.  I have tried to figure out every way he might be mistaken, that maybe his dogs made a mistake, or he misinterpreted what his dogs "told" him.... but the fact is, we believe him or we don't.  "IF" we believe him, Lindsey is gone.  I am sorry but that is the way it is... IF we don't wish to believe HO, then we need to not focus on what he said. I don't want to believe him, because if I do, this means Lindsey is not coming home.  On the other hand what is there to make me NOT believe him? 

HO did not go to Mccleary only one time.  He did not follow those trails only one time.  He went at least 4 times that I know of.  He trailed the same trail more than one and the exact same thing happened.  If he is wrong and his dogs are wrong, then they are consistently wrong... On the other hand if they are right, they are consistently right. 

Anyone who has the report of HO and has any sense at all can interpret it and know what it says... It is not some "voodoo" interpretation, it is specific and detailed, and anyone who has it should know where to look.  And anyone who knows about the woods should know the longer they wait to look the less likely they will ever find her.  And anyone who has the information I have will know that each DAY might be the day which is going to make the difference in finding her or not... Two weeks between searches is going to be what makes ever finding her impossible.  There is not going to be any hunters or fishermen stumbling up her later.  Every single minute (literally) is going to make a difference whether she is found or not. 

Now... on the other hand if no one believes HO, then we have a totally different situation going on and she might very well be alive.  And again, every MINUTE could mean the difference whether she is found alive or not... Time is our worst enemy at this point.  There is no time to sit and wait for two weeks to roll around, then another two weeks, then through the winter etc. 

I hate posting this, I really do, but reality is reality, and whatever is going to be done at this point, needs to be based upon reality, not some hopes and dreams situation someone wishes to imagine.  The truth is, if Lindsey is out there in those woods, every minute can make the difference if she is ever found or not.  Anyone living in those areas KNOWS this.  So why tell me, are all the people sitting on their butts talking about this and not out there trying to find her? 

I just hope someone gets up some guts and will get off their rears and go look.  Winter is coming... and even long before winter sets in, there are just other circumstances which will make it impossible to EVER find her.  Is that what someone is hoping for?  I really have to wonder.
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« Reply #1204 on: September 25, 2009, 12:27:26 PM »

dd, do you have a link or pix of KK's sons' arm injury that happened about the time Lindsey went missing?  I'm trying to sort a couple things out.

Maybe DD or anothe Monkey did a screen capture of that injury in regards to Shorty (Kara's son).  However ... Shorty's myspace no longer shows the image as far as I can determine.

What age is Shorty?

Janet

++++++

Kara K
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
Reply #1758 on: July 09, 2009, 12:32:57 AM


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg870836;topicseen#msg870836
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« Reply #1205 on: September 25, 2009, 12:31:01 PM »

It is comforting to learn from DD that Harry Oakes' canine search a short time following Lindsey Baum's disappearance was not the last canine search.  It would sure be interesting to know what were the findings revealed in Oakes' report submitted on 8/31.

I will email LE/FBI today requesting an answer to why the findings of Harry Oakes' canine searches are not taken seriously.  I do not expect an answer but ... not allowing the Lindsey Baum case to become cold is my mission on the forum and behind the scenes through emails.

Janet

I highlighted about in red...

thank you tomikasmom... I appreciate your willingness to email people behind the scenes. 
Although I already know the answer to that question, I surely would like you to receive an answer straight from the horses mouth as to why they are not paying attention to Harry Oakes. 

I know they told people he is a quack... I have a hard time believing that as his dogs tracked exactly to places I had information about back in July, long before his info about this surfaced... so tell me how do I and harry oakes end up in the same places?  I have to believe he knows what he is doing... the only other thing I can come up with is someone I told, told him, and he went there.  But I asked the person who was incontact with him and who I had told these things if they told this things to HO, and they swore they told him nothing about it... so I really find it almost impossible he would end up in the same places, more than one or two, that I ended up in, IF he is making it all up.
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« Reply #1206 on: September 25, 2009, 12:32:17 PM »

I have to say this.  And I will say it here because I know everyone reads here. 

"IF" we believe Harry Oakes, then sad to say Lindsey is no longer with us... I will be trashed over this I know, but it is the truth and we need to know the truth.  Notice I say "IF" we "believe" HO... Either we don't believe him or we do.  I have tried to figure out every way he might be mistaken, that maybe his dogs made a mistake, or he misinterpreted what his dogs "told" him.... but the fact is, we believe him or we don't.  "IF" we believe him, Lindsey is gone.  I am sorry but that is the way it is... IF we don't wish to believe HO, then we need to not focus on what he said. I don't want to believe him, because if I do, this means Lindsey is not coming home.  On the other hand what is there to make me NOT believe him? 

HO did not go to Mccleary only one time.  He did not follow those trails only one time.  He went at least 4 times that I know of.  He trailed the same trail more than one and the exact same thing happened.  If he is wrong and his dogs are wrong, then they are consistently wrong... On the other hand if they are right, they are consistently right. 

Anyone who has the report of HO and has any sense at all can interpret it and know what it says... It is not some "voodoo" interpretation, it is specific and detailed, and anyone who has it should know where to look.  And anyone who knows about the woods should know the longer they wait to look the less likely they will ever find her.  And anyone who has the information I have will know that each DAY might be the day which is going to make the difference in finding her or not... Two weeks between searches is going to be what makes ever finding her impossible.  There is not going to be any hunters or fishermen stumbling up her later.  Every single minute (literally) is going to make a difference whether she is found or not. 

Now... on the other hand if no one believes HO, then we have a totally different situation going on and she might very well be alive.  And again, every MINUTE could mean the difference whether she is found alive or not... Time is our worst enemy at this point.  There is no time to sit and wait for two weeks to roll around, then another two weeks, then through the winter etc. 

I hate posting this, I really do, but reality is reality, and whatever is going to be done at this point, needs to be based upon reality, not some hopes and dreams situation someone wishes to imagine.  The truth is, if Lindsey is out there in those woods, every minute can make the difference if she is ever found or not.  Anyone living in those areas KNOWS this.  So why tell me, are all the people sitting on their butts talking about this and not out there trying to find her? 

I just hope someone gets up some guts and will get off their rears and go look.  Winter is coming... and even long before winter sets in, there are just other circumstances which will make it impossible to EVER find her.  Is that what someone is hoping for?  I really have to wonder.

I believe Mr. Oakes, I believe 100% in his dogs.  Dogs have no agenda other than to track.  Dog don't lie.  I am very, very sad.
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« Reply #1207 on: September 25, 2009, 12:40:45 PM »

Monkeys

I took it upon myself to email Harry Oakes regarding the report that he send to the FBI concerning the canine search for Lindsey Baum.  I specifically asked him about the detection of Lindsey's scent at 6th and Maple and ... then along 6th Street ... as indicated by Kara Kampen on this forum.

The following was not as clear as I had hoped.  However ... it was an appreciated response nevertheless.

Janet

+++++++

RE: LINDSEY BAUM SEARCH‏
From:  Harry Oakes (harry98632@yahoo.com
Sent: September 8, 2009 12:12:42 PM



we actually tracked up to Beck St then NE To a logging atv road and our search continues there. So far we've located two empty beer bottles, and a track (Scent trail) heading east 6 miles on either a motor cycle or ATV.

we are also (the search dogs) picking up a dead human alert 1/2 mile East of Beck the winds are coming from the south. I can't tell you about anything else we've found. That's been handed over to the McCleary Police.

Note: The death scent on a dead human could be from any "Dead Human" that has died in the area. Not neccessarily the missing child's scent.

Harry



It should be noted that Harry Oakes at no time claimed that the Death Scent detected by his dog/s was related to Lindsey Baum.

However ... if Harry Oakes' findings are credible ... the timing and location of the death scent in relation to disappearance of Lindsey Baum ... should imply his reports to the authorities should have been investigated.

Janet
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« Reply #1208 on: September 25, 2009, 12:45:23 PM »

I have enough information now I believe I might know exactly where someone should go search...if anyone reads this, is there locally, able to actually go to where I point out, and will put aside all the bs and just go out there, I will tell you where to go.

DD - I have been a searcher on all of the organized searches for Lindsey so far and I will go anywhere you direct me.  Please contact me and let me know how big of an area, and how many people are needed to cover area.  There are a lot of good serious searchers willing to help.  I can email ssKlaas or you can to get my contact information.

Thanks

It's not big, I think a couple of people could go there easily.  You need 4 wheel drive, and some guts.  thats about it.  If I lived up there I would be there myself.  If I didn't have my dogs, I would be there anyway.   I would recommend no woman go there alone though.  I have one very specific place and walk from there right up a little creek, maybe up the creek a mile or so. It's not going to be hard.

my contact info is to the right

I can see your contact info is a website so I went to your website and it wont let me log in.  I emailed you yesterday too with my personal info.  I have both a 4WD and guts.  There are some very good searchers that will join me.  Can you
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« Reply #1209 on: September 25, 2009, 12:46:26 PM »

According to Harry Oakes ...

Note: Many of the police depts in Ore. and Washington don't like us because we come in to the search privately on behalf of the family and find the victim or what happened to the victim when the police and their certified K-9 SAR teams failed to find anything.

When a police dept calls us in, we work for them, and wont talk to anyone regarding their case and our findings.

When they refuse our offers to assist and the victim(s) family calls in, we then work for the family. If this embarrasses the law enforcement community, its not our fault. Were just doing the job weve been hired to do.

http://www.k9sardog.com/searches.html
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« Reply #1210 on: September 25, 2009, 12:50:14 PM »

Monkeys

I took it upon myself to email Harry Oakes regarding the report that he send to the FBI concerning the canine search for Lindsey Baum.  I specifically asked him about the detection of Lindsey's scent at 6th and Maple and ... then along 6th Street ... as indicated by Kara Kampen on this forum.

The following was not as clear as I had hoped.  However ... it was an appreciated response nevertheless.

Janet

+++++++

RE: LINDSEY BAUM SEARCH‏
From:  Harry Oakes (harry98632@yahoo.com
Sent: September 8, 2009 12:12:42 PM



we actually tracked up to Beck St then NE To a logging atv road and our search continues there. So far we've located two empty beer bottles, and a track (Scent trail) heading east 6 miles on either a motor cycle or ATV.

we are also (the search dogs) picking up a dead human alert 1/2 mile East of Beck the winds are coming from the south. I can't tell you about anything else we've found. That's been handed over to the McCleary Police.

Note: The death scent on a dead human could be from any "Dead Human" that has died in the area. Not neccessarily the missing child's scent.

Harry



It should be noted that Harry Oakes at no time claimed that the Death Scent detected by his dog/s was related to Lindsey Baum.

However ... if Harry Oakes' findings are credible ... the timing and location of the death scent in relation to disappearance of Lindsey Baum ... should imply his reports to the authorities should have been investigated.

Janet

Janet, I know you are basing your statement on the information YOU have, which is a little piece... And if that is all the information YOU have, then your statement is very true, that HO never claimed the Death Scent was related to Lindsey... on the other hand, YOU don't have very much of the information.  So I am going to share something.  "I" have a LOT more information than YOU do, and I base what I say upon what "I" know, and if you had that information as well, I am sure you would know he might have been looking for a LIVE lindsey at the time he started, but that is not the case NOW.  sorry everyone.  But that is the absolute truth.

edit: Per poster's request. Typo.
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« Reply #1211 on: September 25, 2009, 12:52:19 PM »

Monkeys

I took it upon myself to email Harry Oakes regarding the report that he send to the FBI concerning the canine search for Lindsey Baum.  I specifically asked him about the detection of Lindsey's scent at 6th and Maple and ... then along 6th Street ... as indicated by Kara Kampen on this forum.

The following was not as clear as I had hoped.  However ... it was an appreciated response nevertheless.

Janet

+++++++

RE: LINDSEY BAUM SEARCH‏
From:  Harry Oakes (harry98632@yahoo.com
Sent: September 8, 2009 12:12:42 PM



we actually tracked up to Beck St then NE To a logging atv road and our search continues there. So far we've located two empty beer bottles, and a track (Scent trail) heading east 6 miles on either a motor cycle or ATV.

we are also (the search dogs) picking up a dead human alert 1/2 mile East of Beck the winds are coming from the south. I can't tell you about anything else we've found. That's been handed over to the McCleary Police.

Note: The death scent on a dead human could be from any "Dead Human" that has died in the area. Not neccessarily the missing child's scent.

Harry



It should be noted that Harry Oakes at no time claimed that the Death Scent detected by his dog/s was related to Lindsey Baum.

However ... if Harry Oakes' findings are credible ... the timing and location of the death scent in relation to disappearance of Lindsey Baum ... should imply his reports to the authorities should have been investigated.

Janet

Janet, I know you are basing your statement on the information YOU have, which is a little piece... And if that is all the information YOU have, then your statement is very true, that HO never claimed the Death Scent was related to Lindsey... on the other hand, YOU don't have very much of the information.  So I am going to share something.  "I" have a LOT more information than YOU do, and I base what I say upon what "I" know, and if you had that information as well, I am sure you would know he might have been looking for a LIVE lindsey at the time he started, but that is not the case NOW.  sorry everyone.  But that is the absolute truth.

edit ......... by poster's request. Typo.
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« Reply #1212 on: September 25, 2009, 12:55:11 PM »

I have enough information now I believe I might know exactly where someone should go search...if anyone reads this, is there locally, able to actually go to where I point out, and will put aside all the bs and just go out there, I will tell you where to go.

DD - I have been a searcher on all of the organized searches for Lindsey so far and I will go anywhere you direct me.  Please contact me and let me know how big of an area, and how many people are needed to cover area.  There are a lot of good serious searchers willing to help.  I can email ssKlaas or you can to get my contact information.

Thanks

It's not big, I think a couple of people could go there easily.  You need 4 wheel drive, and some guts.  thats about it.  If I lived up there I would be there myself.  If I didn't have my dogs, I would be there anyway.   I would recommend no woman go there alone though.  I have one very specific place and walk from there right up a little creek, maybe up the creek a mile or so. It's not going to be hard.

my contact info is to the right

I can see your contact info is a website so I went to your website and it wont let me log in.  I emailed you yesterday too with my personal info.  I have both a 4WD and guts.  There are some very good searchers that will join me.  Can you


I did not receive an email from you, most likely went to the wrong email... try this one.  keysring@yahoo.com
thanks..
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« Reply #1213 on: September 25, 2009, 12:58:07 PM »

I have enough information now I believe I might know exactly where someone should go search...if anyone reads this, is there locally, able to actually go to where I point out, and will put aside all the bs and just go out there, I will tell you where to go.

DD - I have been a searcher on all of the organized searches for Lindsey so far and I will go anywhere you direct me.  Please contact me and let me know how big of an area, and how many people are needed to cover area.  There are a lot of good serious searchers willing to help.  I can email ssKlaas or you can to get my contact information.

Thanks

It's not big, I think a couple of people could go there easily.  You need 4 wheel drive, and some guts.  thats about it.  If I lived up there I would be there myself.  If I didn't have my dogs, I would be there anyway.   I would recommend no woman go there alone though.  I have one very specific place and walk from there right up a little creek, maybe up the creek a mile or so. It's not going to be hard.

my contact info is to the right

I can see your contact info is a website so I went to your website and it wont let me log in.  I emailed you yesterday too with my personal info.  I have both a 4WD and guts.  There are some very good searchers that will join me.  Can you


I did not receive an email from you, most likely went to the wrong email... try this one.  keysring@yahoo.com
thanks..

Ok I am send it right now.
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« Reply #1214 on: September 25, 2009, 12:58:28 PM »

DD

You are correct.  Harry Oakes' words in his email to me regarding the death scent ... words that I shared with the forum ... is ALL that I have to go on.  Either Oakes told me the truth or he lied to me.

 

I would rather Harry Oakes had not responded to my email if his words were not the truth.

Janet
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« Reply #1215 on: September 25, 2009, 01:01:14 PM »

DD

You are correct.  Harry Oakes' words in his email to me regarding the death scent ... words that I shared with the forum ... is ALL that I have to go on.  Either Oakes told me the truth or he lied to me.

 

I would rather Harry Oakes had not responded to my email if his words were not the truth.

Janet

He did not LIE to you, he just left so much out, that you didn't get enough to know the rest.  Remember, he went more than once.  As he found out more, his conclusions become clearer.
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« Reply #1216 on: September 25, 2009, 01:03:18 PM »

I do not believe for one moment Harry Oakes is a liar.  In fact, based on what dd knew in July, it is an affirmation.
We know what his e-mail said, we know what his website says . . . he has no reason to lie and his dogs do what they are trained to do.
The bigger issue, IMO, is what is LE doing about it or why haven't they done anything about it.
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« Reply #1217 on: September 25, 2009, 01:09:54 PM »

I do not believe for one moment Harry Oakes is a liar.  In fact, based on what dd knew in July, it is an affirmation.
We know what his e-mail said, we know what his website says . . . he has no reason to lie and his dogs do what they are trained to do.
The bigger issue, IMO, is what is LE doing about it or why haven't they done anything about it.

This is a real concern.  Even if they thought HO is a "quack", shouldn't they just to look.  I mean they KNOW where to look, it is not like they have to go hiking all over a mountain to follow directions.  I could do it in a day by myself.  So how dang hard is it for them to go there?  Did they go?  Did they say, what a "quack" and toss the reports and whatever else he gave them?  They have had plenty of time to have done whatever they needed to do.  If they have done something then they should let someone know that they at least acted upon what HO told them and submitted.  We need to be speaking up here and make people accountible(sp)... I have been sitting here being quiet because people close to the case want me to be quiet... well crap, how long do we all sit and be quiet?  3 more months?  into winter?  next year?  come on people... time is of essense here, unless you want some unsolved cold case to be in the archives 20 years from now... ugh.  Let people trash me to heck, I don't care, I should have spoke up long ago, but out of respect for some people I "THOUGHT" were doing something, I didn't.  I'm fed up... now I will do this MY way...
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« Reply #1218 on: September 25, 2009, 01:15:36 PM »

DD

You are correct.  Harry Oakes' words in his email to me regarding the death scent ... words that I shared with the forum ... is ALL that I have to go on.  Either Oakes told me the truth or he lied to me.
 

I would rather Harry Oakes had not responded to my email if his words were not the truth.

Janet

He did not LIE to you, he just left so much out, that you didn't get enough to know the rest.  Remember, he went more than once.  As he found out more, his conclusions become clearer.

Harry Oakes email to me was on September 8, 2009.

My understanding of Oakes' words in a nutshell is that a death scent was detected by his dog/s in the Beck Street Area but ... the death scent was not necessarily Lindsey.

I do not think for one minute that Harry Oakes lied to me.  However ... I do find the details he shared of the search area somewhat confusing.

Janet

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« Reply #1219 on: September 25, 2009, 01:17:30 PM »

Monkeys

I took it upon myself to email Harry Oakes regarding the report that he send to the FBI concerning the canine search for Lindsey Baum.  I specifically asked him about the detection of Lindsey's scent at 6th and Maple and ... then along 6th Street ... as indicated by Kara Kampen on this forum.

The following was not as clear as I had hoped.  However ... it was an appreciated response nevertheless.

Janet

+++++++

RE: LINDSEY BAUM SEARCH‏
From:  Harry Oakes (harry98632@yahoo.com
Sent: September 8, 2009 12:12:42 PM



we actually tracked up to Beck St then NE To a logging atv road and our search continues there. So far we've located two empty beer bottles, and a track (Scent trail) heading east 6 miles on either a motor cycle or ATV.

we are also (the search dogs) picking up a dead human alert 1/2 mile East of Beck the winds are coming from the south. I can't tell you about anything else we've found. That's been handed over to the McCleary Police.

Note: The death scent on a dead human could be from any "Dead Human" that has died in the area. Not neccessarily the missing child's scent.

Harry



It should be noted that Harry Oakes at no time claimed that the Death Scent detected by his dog/s was related to Lindsey Baum.

However ... if Harry Oakes' findings are credible ... the timing and location of the death scent in relation to disappearance of Lindsey Baum ... should imply his reports to the authorities should have been investigated.

Janet

Janet, I know you are basing your statement on the information YOU have, which is a little piece... And if that is all the information YOU have, then your statement is very true, that HO never claimed the Death Scent was related to Lindsey... on the other hand, YOU don't have very much of the information.  So I am going to share something.  "I" have a LOT more information than YOU do, and I base what I say upon what "I" know, and if you had that information as well, I am sure you would know.  He might have been looking for a LIVE lindsey at the time he started, but that is not the case NOW. sorry everyone.  But that is the absolute truth.

highlighted above.... what I should have said is...

can a mod please remove the red highlight in this post and the same words in the original post and insert the part I have in blue...please..

if not, someone is going go copy the one that is not corrected and it will go all over the net like that and it is going to make a HUGE difference in what it says

thank you.

edit: per poster's request. Typo.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 04:50:26 PM by CBB » Logged

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