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Author Topic: Lindsey Baum # 4 8/26/09 - 9/28/09  (Read 183099 times)
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Wyks
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« Reply #160 on: August 30, 2009, 01:16:07 AM »

Am still wondering....

...if LE has checked out the church that has been reported that both Lindsey and her brother attended, not too long before she went missing.   And of course, if it's true that they did both attend that church. 

...and if it's true that they did go... if LE has checked into anyone from that church who may have befriended either Lindsey or her brother.   

Someone in a position of authority that Lindsey may have known, I'd want for LE to make a list of anyone possible, then check them out one by one.  No matter who it may be.  Either from her own town or the nearby areas where she may have visited, etc. 

Am also still uncomfy with the posting on the internet that Lindsey and her friend/s have done.  Those messages clearly state "mobile" on each one, and it seems that she had access thru her phone, a friend's phone, or somehow.  Whether or not her mom or any parents of her friends were aware of that.  IMO. 

Just trying to brainstorm possibilities that am hoping have been or will be checked out. 



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Tracygirl
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« Reply #161 on: August 30, 2009, 01:17:16 AM »

Sister thank you very much...I know about aspergeres and other asd's due to working with those affected professionally as well as advocating on their behalf. I just so happen to also be a mom to a child with autism. No one hit a nerve because I am a mom, but because they are misstating things and also saying things are facts when they are not. my only response to them is to please back up what you say with facts. Just because they are saying it, doesn't mean it is true. I trust all of you to be smart enough to not just take someone's words for something without first checking.

Tracygirl, I know -- I have been working with a closed head brain injury with George -- 20 years this coming December.  I like you advocate for the disabled and when people give out incorrect information, it makes me steam.  To have some poor child raked over the coals on unverified information and innuendo is so uncalled for and assuredly is not professional.  But then, we've been down this trail before . . .

There is a study about aspergers and criminal behavior, it is pretty easy to find on the internet and anyone can do it, but you also have to have the knowledge of the specific condition to be able to truly understand the study. It also bothers me they state things like, I had kids like josh in my unit...well every kid is different and how would she know what he is like unless she knows him personally? Unless she lives in that town and has spoken to him she doesn't know who he is, just what she has read about him and whether any of it is true we don't really know. He is a minor but if this person believes him to have been persuaded by an adult then why is she not looking for that adult? Josh would be a victim as well then. Just doesn't make any sense. Yes, I remember this road.....are we being lead again down that road? Hmmmm interesting timing.
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markduncan
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« Reply #162 on: August 30, 2009, 01:21:36 AM »

One quick note about Asperger's Syndrome before you go back to finding a missing child.

Asperger's presents itself differently in every person.  Most people with Asperger's also have comorbid (other) conditions as well.  There is a good chance that everyone here knows someone with Asperger's and/or high functioning autism.

If you are interested in learning more about it, go to any of the great websites out there like http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/  http://www.autismspeaks.org/   http://www.autismsocietyofwa.org/   http://www.autismsource.org/   

this list is certainly not all-inclusive.  I personally love the first one.  OASIS is a great place for the average person to learn about Asperger's folks.

I hope that everyone can get back to fact-finding and leave the rumor mill for other places
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #163 on: August 30, 2009, 01:22:32 AM »

Hi wykes! Nice to see you! Hope you are doing well!

Those are all great questions...There are still so many avenues to be explored by LE. I hope they are doing what they need to do to find this girl. being from a small town, I have my doubts on a small town pd. my hope is the fbi are leading this.
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Sister
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« Reply #164 on: August 30, 2009, 01:22:39 AM »

Sister thank you very much...I know about aspergeres and other asd's due to working with those affected professionally as well as advocating on their behalf. I just so happen to also be a mom to a child with autism. No one hit a nerve because I am a mom, but because they are misstating things and also saying things are facts when they are not. my only response to them is to please back up what you say with facts. Just because they are saying it, doesn't mean it is true. I trust all of you to be smart enough to not just take someone's words for something without first checking.

Tracygirl, I know -- I have been working with a closed head brain injury with George -- 20 years this coming December.  I like you advocate for the disabled and when people give out incorrect information, it makes me steam.  To have some poor child raked over the coals on unverified information and innuendo is so uncalled for and assuredly is not professional.  But then, we've been down this trail before . . .

There is a study about aspergers and criminal behavior, it is pretty easy to find on the internet and anyone can do it, but you also have to have the knowledge of the specific condition to be able to truly understand the study. It also bothers me they state things like, I had kids like josh in my unit...well every kid is different and how would she know what he is like unless she knows him personally? Unless she lives in that town and has spoken to him she doesn't know who he is, just what she has read about him and whether any of it is true we don't really know. He is a minor but if this person believes him to have been persuaded by an adult then why is she not looking for that adult? Josh would be a victim as well then. Just doesn't make any sense. Yes, I remember this road.....are we being lead again down that road? Hmmmm interesting timing.

Exactly, the generalizations just drive me nuts.  But again, I think the timing is note worthy.
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Wyks
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« Reply #165 on: August 30, 2009, 01:45:25 AM »

Hi wykes! Nice to see you! Hope you are doing well!

Those are all great questions...There are still so many avenues to be explored by LE. I hope they are doing what they need to do to find this girl. being from a small town, I have my doubts on a small town pd. my hope is the fbi are leading this.

Hi TG!!!  It's good to be posting with you again!   

Doing ok here, can't complain much, ya know.  lol  How are you doing? 

How are the folks in Tracy holding up?  I think of y'all there often, wondering how things are going there.  I know firsthand how a small town can change when someone from there goes missing.  The first and weirdest thing is that life doesn't stand still.  The sun still rises, people go about their business.  It's surreal.  Hard to understand in some ways, understandable in others. 

Yes, I can imagine that LE in Lindsey's town has their hands full with this.  I understand about the small town PD.  Sigh.  They likely don't have enough officers to handle this, as well as covering the other needs of their town.  So my hope is with yours, that FBI is leading.  Also hope that if they are, the local LE is glad for the help and not in a huff about it.  Some LE get the macho thing going on, wanting to be the ones in charge, no matter what.  Haven't heard about this going on with the local LE there tho.  Just haven't heard either way. 
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« Reply #166 on: August 30, 2009, 10:09:51 AM »

I see the whole Cluemaster ordeal has been solved, but I had one question.  Did anyone ask why the DC looks altered from maybe DL?    http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5810.100 

Lindsey, I pray for you to come home everyday little girl!  I hope to be back digging to find you this week.  Life threw me a curve ball, but things are settling down, so I will have time again to search via my computer.
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« Reply #167 on: August 30, 2009, 11:03:25 AM »

Volunteers search for clues in case of missing McCleary girl


By Rolf Boone; The Olympian
Published: 08/29/09   9:19 pm


McCLEARY --

Teams of volunteers inspected roadsides, wooded areas and creeks Saturday as part of the ongoing effort to find Lindsey Baum, the 11-year-old McCleary girl who disappeared the evening of June 26.

Saturday was the second consecutive day in which volunteers fanned out into outlying areas and neighboring towns, hoping to find clues. The search continues today.

At the request of Lindsey’s mother, Melissa, two nonprofit groups – the Laura Recovery Center of Friends­wood, Texas, and Klaaskids Foundation of Sausalito, Calif. – organized the search. Both groups have been involved in high-profile missing-­child cases before, including the disappearances of Elizabeth Smart of Utah and Elaine Sepulveda of Oak Harbor.

About 120 people searched Friday, and about 40 people had taken part before noon Saturday, said Brad Dennis, director of search operations for the Klaaskids Foundation. The search is being staged from the McCleary Community Center, and although organizers have enough volunteers to handle administrative duties, they need more searchers, Dennis said.

“We need people to come out and be a part of this,” he said.

Baum disappeared about 9:15 p.m. June 26 as she embarked alone on about a half-mile walk from a friend’s house on Maple Street to her home on Mommsen Road. Her mother, who moved to McCleary from Lacey about two years ago, said Saturday that she is doing all she can so her daughter won’t be forgotten, such as putting up flyers and making buttons with Lindsey’s picture. She thinks her daughter is alive, although “getting through the nights” is the hardest part, she said.

“My main focus is just finding her and then we can deal with the rest,” Melissa Baum said.

Volunteers who showed up Saturday were separated into groups. Team leaders were selected and groups were given directions on how and where to search. The team leaders also were provided with global positioning systems to note the locations of their searches, as well as clipboards with paper so they could jot down possible clues.

Patty Thorsen and Judy Enz of Olympia, plus team leader Mike Davis of Gig Harbor, spent about an hour exploring Niels Lane, a rock-covered road that overlooks state Route 8 about 4 miles west of McCleary. All three decided to volunteer because they are parents, but Thorsen and Davis also were moved by Melissa Baum’s story after hearing her interviewed on a Seattle radio station. Mike said the combination of listening to Melissa Baum and hearing news about Jaycee Dugard, the California woman recently discovered after she was missing for 18 years, prompted him to act.

“I said, ‘Well, I can give up a Saturday,’ ” he said. Davis, too, has five children, including three girls. All three got into his truck, drove to the end of the road and then worked their way back, stopping frequently to look down hillsides, peer into the woods and inspect roadside debris. The three also discovered a black garbage bag filled with clothes, including a pair of denim jeans, the same kind of clothes Lindsey last was seen wearing. After that discovery, it was determined that the clothes and trash likely belonged to a transient and not Lindsey, although Dennis praised the group’s efforts in finding the bag.

Davis marked the site with orange fabric so investigators could inspect the site. Once volunteers return to the community center, they are debriefed and their information is shared with law enforcement, Dennis said.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/updates/story/861127.html
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KarmaRoundUp
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« Reply #168 on: August 30, 2009, 12:02:02 PM »


Karma wrote:
I agree with all that you posted Tracy but what I found a crappy thing to do was have someone on these forums track down an IP addy of one of the posters.
I don't know Melissa M,Melissa B,Mark D nor ClueMaster however I would like to make up my own mind about these people and not have it made up for me by posters on the internet playing junior detectives.


MelissaMcCann wrote:
Thanks for the approval.  Happy to be a part of this site finally.

Regarding this above statment, Insert your name in place of Mark's in the things that were posted and tell me you just turn a blind eye to it.  We asked for some help in tracking down where this was coming from due to the nature of what was being said and the fact we have children involved. Its as much our right to find out who is doin the bs as it for any yahoo to post whatever they want on here.  Finding out an IP address is no different than any of you going to websites to obtain information such as addresses, court docs, ect....
[/quote]


Pink wrote:
I disagree sorry. Posting information available to the general public through an internet search is TOTALLY different that using an IP sniffer to look up where someone is posting from on the internet. And then to share that INFO with everyone on the board, is WRONG.

I have no problem with admins of a board I am posting from knowing my IP, that's an option available to them as a webmaster and I give them that permission by agreeing to the terms of service when I register.  But I am uncomfortable posting with someone who would sniff my info via my IP and post what city I am for the whole world to see.


[/quote]
Thank you Pink,that was my point exactly.
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AnnValentine
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« Reply #169 on: August 30, 2009, 01:25:12 PM »

I agree with Melissa Baum in that Lindsey was likely kidnapped or persuaded to leave by some adults (kidnapping) and taken straight to the highway, and that she is likely not dead. I understand the frustration then with searching the immediate area.

Having said that, did they ever search the water tower?
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« Reply #170 on: August 30, 2009, 02:11:59 PM »

I agree with Melissa Baum in that Lindsey was likely kidnapped or persuaded to leave by some adults (kidnapping) and taken straight to the highway, and that she is likely not dead. I understand the frustration then with searching the immediate area.

Having said that, did they ever search the water tower?
WELCOME   I had asked that early on, and evidently if something that goes inside the water tower that shouldn't be there, there are some type of gauges that will let them know. Somebody may direct to that posting about that.
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AnnValentine
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« Reply #171 on: August 30, 2009, 02:16:07 PM »

I just google searched and found that post. No I don't think so. I mean, there is all sorts of biological life. I think a water sample would be of little value. I don't know what test would detect that kind of thing.
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AnnValentine
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« Reply #172 on: August 30, 2009, 02:31:32 PM »

How much water does the tower hold? How big is it? But I guess what I'm asking is if the search teams did a thorough search of the vicinity of the water tower;if something took place there they might find fine shreds of torn clothing or shoes if they slipped off.

Just an idea.
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AZSunny
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« Reply #173 on: August 30, 2009, 02:36:38 PM »

I just google searched and found that post. No I don't think so. I mean, there is all sorts of biological life. I think a water sample would be of little value. I don't know what test would detect that kind of thing.

AV,  I think they were thinking more on the lines of water displacement type measurements.  That was my understanding. 
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« Reply #174 on: August 30, 2009, 02:52:11 PM »

I just google searched and found that post. No I don't think so. I mean, there is all sorts of biological life. I think a water sample would be of little value. I don't know what test would detect that kind of thing.

AV,  I think they were thinking more on the lines of water displacement type measurements.  That was my understanding. 
Thanks, I don't know really about those type of things, but I do remember someone on here saying that they would know 
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AnnValentine
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« Reply #175 on: August 30, 2009, 03:07:20 PM »

Quote
If somebody suggested that she was put into a water tower.. That would not happen as the water test samples would show it. water companies have to test water all the time..

Septic tanks on the other hand have been used many times over the years..
In a wilderness environment her body would be placed within a hundred yards of a road, like a logging road that is rarely traveled.. Someplace where the culprit could feel safe in parking.
If the ground is soft she could be buried or something put on top of the body like rocks or even tree debris.

This is the post I found on the subject, but I suppose it has been a matter of discussion before. This is not a place that Lindsey Baum would enter at that time of night, but perhaps on a dare from another child or a "I have something cool to show you back here". Lindsey Baum seems too intelligent to follow a predator adult into the woods. For clarification in no way do I suspect Josh Baum.

I still think the water tower should be searched, though I don't necessarily think this is what happened. I suppose a displacement test could provide adequate clarification, depending on the size of the tower, but "they would know" is just not good enough.
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AZSunny
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« Reply #176 on: August 30, 2009, 03:22:28 PM »

Quote
If somebody suggested that she was put into a water tower.. That would not happen as the water test samples would show it. water companies have to test water all the time..

Septic tanks on the other hand have been used many times over the years..
In a wilderness environment her body would be placed within a hundred yards of a road, like a logging road that is rarely traveled.. Someplace where the culprit could feel safe in parking.
If the ground is soft she could be buried or something put on top of the body like rocks or even tree debris.

This is the post I found on the subject, but I suppose it has been a matter of discussion before. This is not a place that Lindsey Baum would enter at that time of night, but perhaps on a dare from another child or a "I have something cool to show you back here". Lindsey Baum seems too intelligent to follow a predator adult into the woods. For clarification in no way do I suspect Josh Baum.

I still think the water tower should be searched, though I don't necessarily think this is what happened. I suppose a displacement test could provide adequate clarification, depending on the size of the tower, but "they would know" is just not good enough.

AV,  there is a much longer post somewhere.  Someone called the water department to ask about the water tower, and the person in charge gave a very detailed explanation. 
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AnnValentine
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« Reply #177 on: August 30, 2009, 04:52:50 PM »

I'd like to read the post, specifically what the worker has said about it, because I do not think a small 80 pound body is going to displace that much water, and bodies have been known to turn up in water towers, albeit after discovering a foul odor and misty appearance to the water, but those were small water towers. I wonder if anyone has been avoiding the water lately.

I had an idea though, in regard to the poor return rate of kidnapped victims. I guess it can be attributed to Stokholm syndrome as well as a fear of authorities. So what if people set up an incentive for a kidnapped victim to get away from their captors, like a financial incentive. Set up a trust fund in their name so that only they can access it, at a bank, via a fingerprint identification so that they do not need any ID since they likely would not have any at that age anyway and then publish it so that hopefully the child knows  that at any time they can run away and not have to go to the authorities, which they may for whatever reason be afraid to do.


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« Reply #178 on: August 30, 2009, 06:59:09 PM »

I'd like to read the post, specifically what the worker has said about it, because I do not think a small 80 pound body is going to displace that much water, and bodies have been known to turn up in water towers, albeit after discovering a foul odor and misty appearance to the water, but those were small water towers. I wonder if anyone has been avoiding the water lately.

I had an idea though, in regard to the poor return rate of kidnapped victims. I guess it can be attributed to Stokholm syndrome as well as a fear of authorities. So what if people set up an incentive for a kidnapped victim to get away from their captors, like a financial incentive. Set up a trust fund in their name so that only they can access it, at a bank, via a fingerprint identification so that they do not need any ID since they likely would not have any at that age anyway and then publish it so that hopefully the child knows  that at any time they can run away and not have to go to the authorities, which they may for whatever reason be afraid to do.




Here is a link to when this was discussed:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5627.msg891415#msg891415

Here is the post by Scandi who called:
Hi,  I did call the City of McCleary today and talked to the Building Dept.  A nice gentleman gave me this info about Sand Creek that cuts across McCleary from NE to the SW and the culverts that encompass most of it:

*  There are two culverts that run side by side thru the town, one 4' pipe, the other 5'/

*  The whole culvert system was searched right after she went missing and nothing was found that related to Lindsey at all.

*  There are only 4 places in town where the creek itself is exposed.  Sam's Canal behind the police station, 9th St, the Treatment Plant where there is very little water and the area of the creek before it dumps into Sand Creek Lake/Pond.

I also asked about the Water Tower in McCleary in the SE section of town.  He basically said if anything had been done to breech the water tower they would have known about it as the water pressure would change.  He said they know it was not breeched as nothing has shown up on the guages.

********************** Maybe if you still feel un-easy you can call them too?
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« Reply #179 on: August 30, 2009, 07:00:22 PM »

Thanks ANJM 
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