Lively Case Discussion #490 7/9 - 7/10/2006

[Houdini]

Sleuth wrote:

And if so, is the name Soo Mee?

If it was a boy he would be named    "Soo He".

And a girl would be named   "Noo Soo".

Of course if Sue had been from Iraq, she would have been named  Ali Mony.........but I digress.

[Easywriter]

Bad news guys.....O'Douls was adopted.  Someone else came before Mr. Whyte and got him.

           

Mr. Whyte is soooo sad!

ANIMAL SHELTERS SUCK!

Well, that is sad news!  Want me to send you some cats?  I seem to attract the damn things.

I KNEW I should have asked my 6 year old to say the prayer...he is in much better with God than I!!! haha really almost asked him!! Your kitty is coming!! I just KNOW it!!

Been praying since yesterday, I asked Mikey to pray for me, geesh!  I say there is a curse in this house where I can only keep one cat. Any other pet that comes into the house asides from KC ends up sick or dead.  I don't get it!  We've spent hundreds in vet bills, it's not like we don't care!

When I had all five kids in here I babysat four hermit crabs...those were the most spoiled crabs ever!  Did you know they love Cheerios?     I gave my nice a zip lock with sea salt to sprinkle on their drinking water and they went over to the shell with water more than the damp sponge.

They are very easy to take care of pets...if a kid asks for a pet consider a hermit crab.  To me, way better than turtles!

Good with garlic/butter too!

[whytegirl]

For our PA monkeys...

KEWL!!!!!!!!!!!!  THANKS!!!  Showed it to Mr. Whyte and the kids.

Well, there ya go...still a monkey!  

[whytegirl]

Bad news guys.....O'Douls was adopted.  Someone else came before Mr. Whyte and got him.

           

Mr. Whyte is soooo sad!

ANIMAL SHELTERS SUCK!

Well, that is sad news!  Want me to send you some cats?  I seem to attract the damn things.

I KNEW I should have asked my 6 year old to say the prayer...he is in much better with God than I!!! haha really almost asked him!! Your kitty is coming!! I just KNOW it!!

Been praying since yesterday, I asked Mikey to pray for me, geesh!  I say there is a curse in this house where I can only keep one cat. Any other pet that comes into the house asides from KC ends up sick or dead.  I don't get it!  We've spent hundreds in vet bills, it's not like we don't care!

When I had all five kids in here I babysat four hermit crabs...those were the most spoiled crabs ever!  Did you know they love Cheerios?     I gave my nice a zip lock with sea salt to sprinkle on their drinking water and they went over to the shell with water more than the damp sponge.

They are very easy to take care of pets...if a kid asks for a pet consider a hermit crab.  To me, way better than turtles!

Good with garlic/butter too!

You better protect those kneecaps of yours, buddy, I am an animal lover! lol

[whytegirl]

Does anybody know why the pot is down?  Has been down for days, been checking and I get two messages that I am forbidden from it.

[Easywriter]

Easywriter wrote:

Weren't Hoo Hoo's a chocolate treat guaranteed to raise the BP?

You mean Ho Ho's?

Well, I wasn't going to talk about that Ho Ho!  But, since you brought it up.... She was kinda sweet and tasted like chocolate.  I remember her well and it still makes my yoo yoo hoo hoo...

[Houdini]

Easywriter wrote:

Well, I wasn't going to talk about that Ho Ho! But, since you brought it up.... She was kinda sweet and tasted like chocolate. I remember her well and it still makes my yoo yoo hoo hoo...

Did she sing "If you'll be my dixie chicken, I'll be your Tennessee lamb?

I might know her.

[Shizaru]

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:52 pm

Somebody saw the car of the brothers (the person is very familiar with the car, sees it almost daily, saw the brothers on the road at two am, going TO the direction of Montanja.


I'm going to call my cousin and let her know. She's a cop. And no, that's not the reason why I'm so gung-ho about defending the cops from corruption accusations. We're not that close

Klaas...sorry so ignorant...which way is this?

That could be the route past Choose-A-Name to the VDS residence in Montanja.    Or one never knows, did they go toward Koen (past LaCabana per Charles Croes account), and then from there went toward Montanja.......

The big problem with CnCs to Arashi to Montanja scenario is the "I'm home" text message.  Doesn't make sense that Joran would be telling Deepak he ws home if Deepak had dropped him off at home.

That is also the big problem with the gardener's 2:30 pond sighting.  Deepak logged on at 2:00.  If Taco is correct that Joran's call to Deepak was at 2:26, then assuming computer records can't prove Deepak was actually on the computer from 2:26-2:55 (time it would have taken him to drive to the pond and back) if Deepak left almost immediately after 2:26 then driving quickly he could have reached the pond at around 2:40.  But then why was Joran messaging Deepak a little after 3:00 to tell him "I'm home" and asking "Whats' up"?  What is the scenario where 30 minutes after Deepak has rushed out for 2:40 pond meeting, Joran has somehow returned home without getting a ride from Deepak, and Deepak is also at home exchanging the sort of casual messages with Joran that don't make any sense, unless at that point at least one of them did not realize anything was wrong.

I don't see any way the gardener's story can be true without him being mistaken about Deepak being in the car: Either there were actually only two people in the car, Joran and the one in back he couldn't identify, or there were three and the one he identified as Deepak was actually someone else.

[Easywriter]

Bad news guys.....O'Douls was adopted.  Someone else came before Mr. Whyte and got him.

           

Mr. Whyte is soooo sad!

ANIMAL SHELTERS SUCK!

Well, that is sad news!  Want me to send you some cats?  I seem to attract the damn things.

I KNEW I should have asked my 6 year old to say the prayer...he is in much better with God than I!!! haha really almost asked him!! Your kitty is coming!! I just KNOW it!!

Been praying since yesterday, I asked Mikey to pray for me, geesh!  I say there is a curse in this house where I can only keep one cat. Any other pet that comes into the house asides from KC ends up sick or dead.  I don't get it!  We've spent hundreds in vet bills, it's not like we don't care!

When I had all five kids in here I babysat four hermit crabs...those were the most spoiled crabs ever!  Did you know they love Cheerios?     I gave my nice a zip lock with sea salt to sprinkle on their drinking water and they went over to the shell with water more than the damp sponge.

They are very easy to take care of pets...if a kid asks for a pet consider a hermit crab.  To me, way better than turtles!

Good with garlic/butter too!

You better protect those kneecaps of yours, buddy, I am an animal lover! lol

Me too!  That's why they all come to live with me.  I think they feel a vibe coming from me and maybe all the FOOD I put out! lol

[whytegirl]

Because I could not show you the cat I wanted to adopt here is a similar kitten for adoption at Petfinder:

[Easywriter]

Easywriter wrote:

Well, I wasn't going to talk about that Ho Ho! But, since you brought it up.... She was kinda sweet and tasted like chocolate. I remember her well and it still makes my yoo yoo hoo hoo...

Did she sing "If you'll be my dixie chicken, I'll be your Tennessee lamb?

I might know her.

You Too?

I knew she had been around!

[Easywriter]

Can I say Joe Tacopina is a blood-sucking opportunist, or will that piss-off the RU site?

Man, I would love for that joke to come to Alabama and sue my old ass.  We would break news then.  Or, Joey would break wind and run like the shister he is!  Did I say “shister?”  

Look it up RU!

[Houdini]

Easywriter wrote:

You Too?

I knew she had been around!

We should write a freakin' song about it.  I don't know about you, but the whole sordid affair "scarred" me.


Of course, it could have been that pot of hot coffee she poured on me, right before she left.

[whytegirl]

Can I say Joe Tacopina is a blood-sucking opportunist, or will that piss-off the RU site?

Man, I would love for that joke to come to Alabama and sue my old ass.  We would break news then.  Or, Joey would break wind and run like the shister he is!  Did I say “shister?”  

Look it up RU!

Dude we are like ying-yang (continuing with the Chinese theme)...when you asked about Chinese torture I thought you were watching Myth Busters...they were testing turtures in one recent episode.

When I say that ying-yang thing is like when you feel down I am up, and backwards.  Dunno why.  Today you are funny and I am down.  Geez.   I will get off soon and start cooking and try and watch the Cup.  I am disappointed at the results fra-ita finals, wth...Hope Italy wins, I am boycotting France.

[whytegirl]

Off to watch the Cup...ttyl....

[Kat_Gram]

Can I say Joe Tacopina is a blood-sucking opportunist, or will that piss-off the RU site?

Man, I would love for that joke to come to Alabama and sue my old ass.  We would break news then.  Or, Joey would break wind and run like the shister he is!  Did I say “shister?”  

Look it up RU!

I think it is spelled SHYSTER. I am not sure what a SHYSTER is except I have always used it in the sense of a crooked lawyer. So, it does fit Joe Tacopina.

[ldstlou]

ok....I am back...filled in a little on my theory...sorry so long!!

 

ldstlou's Theory:

Leave C&C's around 1:00ish
Only one intention they had!! Find a victim to slip a date rape drug to and take advantage of. Happened at least 20 times before!! Drug is put in her shot/drink and the plan is in motion.

At some point one of the Kalpoes is dropped off at home..conclude this because of computer records...one of the boys was home...most likely Satish...did he have school the next day?

k2 have stuck to story of visiting the lighthouse...Deepak goes into pretty great detail as to drive in his statements...how fast/slow he was driving, Natalee falling asleep...asking what hotel she was staying at...etc....so she wants to visit lighthouse...drug starts kicking in...and she passes out. I think if more had happened here...would see some kind of hint in Deepak's statement. Does not appear to be a threat to tell this part of the story to Deepak!! Joran started out saying they visited there...I think his motive for changing shortly after was so he could shift blame to Deepak by saying he was dropped off at home and Deepak left w/ Natalee in the car.

Another thought...had to drive around somewhere until the drug kicked in!!

Head back from lighthouse. Is Satish already home at this point and the 3rd perp gardner could not identify has already been picked up or do they drop him off now and then pick up 3rd perp (Freddy?)

Natalee is now passed out cold. That was their intention!! To drug her and then rape her. So they find a spot close to her hotel in order to take advantage of her....thus the pond.

2:30ish at the pond area
1) gardner reliable witness and passed polygraph (Dave discusses gardner and possible scenario on pages 152 and 153 of his book)
2) it court records phone call was made by Joran about that time and the triangulation of call puts him in that area.

makes alot of sense to me too...if she passes out at lighthouse...they start to take her back to her hotel but stop there to take advantage of her. I am starting to think this is the scene of most of the crime!! This was in fact their original intention!! To slip her a date rape drug and then take advantage of her!! Seems to me this was the logical place for them to go. If I remember correctly, it is by the racquetball club and so they were familiar with the area, it was close to where she is staying..so they can dump her after...and the area is secluded...so don't have to worry about being caught!!

BUT!!! did not count on the gardner passing by...AND!! Natalee is slipping IN as well as out of consciousness!!

So Natalee has some level of consciousness...awakes to find herself being attack and starts to fight back and try to get away....or seeing the gardner throws the perps into a panic and Natalee has an opportunity to try and get away. She struggles to get out of the car...falls and hits her head.

Now their initial plan falls apart....have been seen by gardner, Natalee has injured her head... and they can't just dump her off at her hotel anymore!! So they go back to Joran's house to regroup. Deepak drops them off home and heads back to his own house. Joran, Natalee and 3rd perp (Freddy) are now at VDS property.

3:00ish they are back at Joran's

1) again court records according to David Koch shows another call from Joran's cell and now he is in vicinity of his own home. Call to Deepak's house...but if Deepak's phone is out of minutes...could have used Joran's to call his brother Satish who is home...tells Satish...I am on my way home...is Mom there yet? is she still awake? etc. Did not have Deepak's cell or home phone records in court so easily could have been Deepak using Joran's cell to call home landline phone.
2)Natalee gets in a call with the screeching monkey in the background.

So now they have taken advantage of her...she has hit her head trying to get out of car in the pond area...can't take her back to hotel...everyone would know what happened...they have been seen by gardner...so they head back to Joran's to regroup and figure out what to do next with the injured Natalee.

I really think at this point...because they are so casual about what they are doing..ie logging on computer etc...they intended to let her sleep it off while they figured a story to tell the next day and Natalee expired once they had put her to bed.
would explain the DNA evidence in Joran's room that Jossy was sure they found but then disappeared

They eventually have to get her back to her hotel!! But in a panic...don't want to do it right away because they were just seen by gardner and her head is bleeding. So they put her to bed in Joran's apartment with the intention of dropping her off right before her plane is do to depart so she can not alert anyone as to what had just happened. Could also explain where Joran comes up with Satish saying just leave her!! Probably actually said by Deepak as they are trying to figure out what to do with her at the pond...maybe one idea is to just dump her at the beach by fisherman's hut...but what if she doesn't wake up in time and misses her plane? Then they are in trouble because she would be able to tell authorities what they did to her...so they have to get her back to hotel....but time it so she makes it to her departing plane so she is off the island and they are out of trouble.

So they are now at Joran's apartment...Joran goes to main house...gets something to eat...logs on to computer...all his actions are calm...don't think he was alarmed yet. I don't think he suspects anything other than Natalee is sleeping it off and he is trying to come up with a plan so he can get her back to her hotel in time to catch the plane and not get accused of raping her. Natalee is in Joran's apartment and slips in her call...3rd person (Freddy?) catches her and is the voice in the background.  

Now what happens? Does (Freddy) panic and hurt her...or does she pass away from hitting her head earlier or date rape drug?

Joran logs off computer about  3:30ish...goes back to his apartment...and he finds Natalee has expired...either by 3rd perp (Freddy) or from her injury/drug

now another rush of activity!!!
4am...Paulus is out and about by McD's
Deepak frantically washing his car
is this when the 8 1/2 minute phone call happens?

I think this is my final theory...to me...makes sense...can explain so much of what was said by the 3 perps!!

comments?

I think we have gotten away from the pond area and evidence but I think it is the initial scene of the rape and possible fall/head injury.
What else do we know about the pond area? Wasn't it just recently said by Jossy or Art that half way through draining..it appeared they found evidence and police were scurrying!! Sorry...remember I painting until 3am..posted at 4am..haha not much sleep!!

[Sue]

LIke I say Joran is pond scum and Joe is what feeds on that scum

[Kat_Gram]

Can I say Joe Tacopina is a blood-sucking opportunist, or will that piss-off the RU site?

Man, I would love for that joke to come to Alabama and sue my old ass.  We would break news then.  Or, Joey would break wind and run like the shister he is!  Did I say “shister?”  

Look it up RU!

I think it is spelled SHYSTER. I am not sure what a SHYSTER is except I have always used it in the sense of a crooked lawyer. So, it does fit Joe Tacopina.

Wikipedia:
Shyster
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Contents [hide]
1 Description
2 Etymology
3 Common Misspellings
4 Other Uses
 


[edit]
Description
A shyster is someone who acts in a disreputable, unethical or unscrupulous way, especially in the practice of law and politics, or a con artist.

[edit]
Etymology
The origin is mostly likely from German Scheisser - "incompetent worthless person," literally "defecator".[1]
Other possible origins include a real 19th-century New York Jewish lawyer named Scheuster[citation needed], Shylock a character in Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice.
One theory attributes the origin to the carnival game "Coconut Shy," given the reputation carnival workers and their games have[citation needed].

[edit]
Common Misspellings
Shyster is commonly misspelled. Common variants include schister, scheister, sheister, schyster, shister, shiester and schiester.

[edit]
Other Uses
It may also be applied as a derogatory term for a Hyster Fork Truck.
This term has been used in Isaac Asimov's short science-fiction robot story "Evidence". An atmosphere is created around a falsity and then proven wrong.
(military) SS-3 Shyster is the NATO reporting name for the R-5 theatre ballistic missile.
This is a disambiguation page: a list of articles associated with the same title. If an internal link referred you to this page, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shyster"
Categories: Articles with unsourced statements | Disambiguation
Fits a few more that I can think of too.

[Buckeye]

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:52 pm

Somebody saw the car of the brothers (the person is very familiar with the car, sees it almost daily, saw the brothers on the road at two am, going TO the direction of Montanja.


I'm going to call my cousin and let her know. She's a cop. And no, that's not the reason why I'm so gung-ho about defending the cops from corruption accusations. We're not that close

Klaas...sorry so ignorant...which way is this?

That could be the route past Choose-A-Name to the VDS residence in Montanja.    Or one never knows, did they go toward Koen (past LaCabana per Charles Croes account), and then from there went toward Montanja.......

The big problem with CnCs to Arashi to Montanja scenario is the "I'm home" text message.  Doesn't make sense that Joran would be telling Deepak he ws home if Deepak had dropped him off at home.

That is also the big problem with the gardener's 2:30 pond sighting.  Deepak logged on at 2:00.  If Taco is correct that Joran's call to Deepak was at 2:26, then assuming computer records can't prove Deepak was actually on the computer from 2:26-2:55 (time it would have taken him to drive to the pond and back) if Deepak left almost immediately after 2:26 then driving quickly he could have reached the pond at around 2:40.  But then why was Joran messaging Deepak a little after 3:00 to tell him "I'm home" and asking "Whats' up"?  What is the scenario where 30 minutes after Deepak has rushed out for 2:40 pond meeting, Joran has somehow returned home without getting a ride from Deepak, and Deepak is also at home exchanging the sort of casual messages with Joran that don't make any sense, unless at that point at least one of them did not realize anything was wrong.

I don't see any way the gardener's story can be true without him being mistaken about Deepak being in the car: Either there were actually only two people in the car, Joran and the one in back he couldn't identify, or there were three and the one he identified as Deepak was actually someone else.

Well, we know the time stamps were messed with, so I don't know if we have the accurate times.
What if the boys returned to Jorans and they were looking around for him and he texted them "I'm home" instead of yelling from the main house (where he was with Paulus)?