Lively Case Discussion #490 7/9 - 7/10/2006

[whytegirl]

San.............as far as how far the sound would carry, if a monkey screech is anything like a bird's ( I have a mulucan cockatoo), it would easily carry to and well beyond the VDS compound.

Tink,

Miss your avatar!!!!  Found my Tink green polo shirt and thought of you.  I had a Severe Macaw and the sound is quadraphonic.  My neighbors have two Cockatoos and I never hear 'em.  I am just a couple of houses down.  I don't know how they do it!

[Easywriter]

Do we still have any posters from Aruba?

I think we have a couple.  Linda ?

I hear Joran is back in Aruba for the summer and has a summer job.  I would like to know more about that.

[crazybabyborg]

Been catching up, and the posts regarding PVDS's delay in responding when police and Holloway/Twitty entourage arrived 5/31 early AM made me recall that he also came out of the bushes, sotospeak, when Greta and Beth came to call.  What the heck was that all about?  It's also stuck in my mind as peculiar.  Sorry if this post makes me seem stuck on stupid, but it was something that came back to me.

Good day all.

You aren't stuck on stupid. Jug said if he had it to do over, he would have blocked the driveway and not left until the car trunk had been opened and searched. He, at least thought it very possible that Nat was still on the premisis.

[klaasend]

[Ono]

I'm bring out the poor horse.............But this call with the monkey sounds is emerging as more and more pivotal to try to figure out what happened and when and where it occurred.
My recollection is that Dave dismissed the call. Beth was less sure than Dave that it should be dismissed in the Dr. Phil appearance. However, as time has passed, neither of them have given the call the place of importance in any interview I have witnessed that one would expect, if it were accepted as fact that Nat made the call. In fact, I have witnessed many times, Dave and Beth say that they are sure Nat was taken to Joran's after leaving C&Cs, but beyond that, they aren't sure of anything. What is the surety expressed in this forum based on? Wow, that sounds confrontive, doesn't it? That's not intentional....I have a tremendous amount of respect for the posters here. I'm just missing something and want to be as confident as others are. HELP! TIA.

The call that Dave dismisses took place last October. This is another call..a call made that fateful night in May.

[klaasend]

Do we still have any posters from Aruba?

Only front page posters Arubaanse and Linda although I haven't seen Linda post in a while.

[Leslie]

Van der Sloot interview- Listen to Part 2
http://tinyurl.com/czdyw

[Sleuth]

Have we ever discussed that "sharks" could be a metaphor for "card sharks" or "loan sharks?"

We have, but the shark stuff came from Joran's statements indicating that Natalee wanted to see sharks.  Why would she want to see card or loan sharks?

The only way I see Natalee wanting to see sharks is if she was enticed into wanting to see a new spot on the island (oh man, now I remember a sufing place by the lighthouse called "spot" - and I'll have to go back and research that too     )

Buckeye's recollection about cute nurse sharks at DePalm, for example.

[Ono]

The main residence and the other bedrooms are closer to the monkey cage then Joran's apartment.  Did Natalee manage to grab someones cell phone (sanders?) while trying to escape from their property and run to the neighbors property.  Was she possibly hiding near the monkey cage when the call was made.  They were looking for her and realized she had a phone in her hands and had gotten a call off.

Or they went into the house and left her in the car (she refused to get out)...she grabbed Sander's cell phone (plugged into charge in car) and then ran to neighbors...

It certainly makes sense it could have been Sander's phone...especially since it 'magically' disappeared during time frame!

[mishy]

Sleuth wrote:
mishy wrote:
I will add that I was taking a computer class on the morning that Natalee missed her flight and my instructor was a Mtn Brook mom, who had just received word about Natalee on her email and told me about it. She said whoever emailed her said that they were searching for a "father and son" in relation to her disappearance...

It was weeks later when I heard speculation on the blogs or MSM that a "father" might have been involved...do I have that timeline right?


WOW Mishy, if that instructor had that on the day Natalee went missing, I wonder who she received the email from. If it was the morning Natalee went missing, that would have been PRIOR to Beth and Jug arriving and visiting the VDS property.

Spooky wrote:

wasnt that posted on that first tripadvisor post by the wife of one of the chaperones? i could be wrong. does anyone have those posts handy?

Does anybody else remember this tripadvisor post Spooky was talking about? I never went to tripadvisor...
_________________

[Sleuth]

Do we still have any posters from Aruba?

Only front page posters Arubaanse and Linda although I haven't seen Linda post in a while.

Didn't Linda post in the last week or so....going back to see...

[Ono]

Homes in Aruba look kinda chitty!

No duh!

[Nut44x4]

I don't think Natalee wanted to see the "big house" or "sharks" or wanted to have sex with the "exchange student" from Holland.  She wanted to go back to her hotel with the Dutch kid who was also staying at the hotel.

Exactly!

  Good Morning All ~

Excellent point, and I agree. I know in the past few days I have seen things that say she met Joran before that night, but I also remember what Leigh ......I think her name is...said Nat had not met Joran before that night. Some reports say they had met before that night. Too many damn rumours out there.......ACKKKKK!

[Sleuth]

Do we still have any posters from Aruba?

Only front page posters Arubaanse and Linda although I haven't seen Linda post in a while.

Didn't Linda post in the last week or so....going back to see...

My error - I get my Linda's mixed up.  I haven't seen FP poster Linda from Aruba on for a while.  Forum poster Linda from Kansas was on last weekend...

[whytegirl]

Have we ever discussed that "sharks" could be a metaphor for "card sharks" or "loan sharks?"

Yes we did.  Especially the Monkey males blogging at the time.

[klaasend]

Sleuth wrote:
mishy wrote:
I will add that I was taking a computer class on the morning that Natalee missed her flight and my instructor was a Mtn Brook mom, who had just received word about Natalee on her email and told me about it. She said whoever emailed her said that they were searching for a "father and son" in relation to her disappearance...

It was weeks later when I heard speculation on the blogs or MSM that a "father" might have been involved...do I have that timeline right?


WOW Mishy, if that instructor had that on the day Natalee went missing, I wonder who she received the email from. If it was the morning Natalee went missing, that would have been PRIOR to Beth and Jug arriving and visiting the VDS property.

Spooky wrote:

wasnt that posted on that first tripadvisor post by the wife of one of the chaperones? i could be wrong. does anyone have those posts handy?

Does anybody else remember this tripadvisor post Spooky was talking about? I never went to tripadvisor...
_________________

Not the wife of a chaperone, but Alana Jordan's (Dash) mom Arbeej:

arbeej
Tuesday, May 31st, 2005, 11:46 PM
I cannot find any web address info for police stations in Aruba. I am trying to get info on their current investigation on the DISAPPEARANCE (ABDUCTION? MURDER?) of a teenaged girl during our local high school's trip to Aruba. How can I reach them?!

The child's mother has flown to Aruba to help look for her. Our only source for information is the travel agent, who is not receiving much info, either. None of us is getting direct info from the police. I have searched but cannot find any internet info on how to contact them directly.

I was encouraged to read that just a week or so ago, the Aruba police did solve a kidnapping case, rescuing two sisters. I hope we have the same result. (It sounds as if they are moving swiftly on the case.) Meanwhile we are all losing our minds with grief and worry. It would help to get some official word.

Our travel agent assured us as parents that our children would be safe in Aruba on this chaperoned trip. Yet now that this tragedy has occurred, I have since heard from others that this sort of thing happens all the time. Is this true?!

I hope some of you can direct me to official sources. Meanwhile, we will appreciate your prayers for the safe return of this young girl.

arbeej
Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 03:11 PM

My daughter ACTUALLY WITNESSED Natalee right outside the entrance to Carlos & Charlie's at around 1:00 a.m. Monday morning. (The paper says she left at 1:30.) My daughter was leaving the bar with two friends, and they were right behind another group. She called to Natalee and asked if she wanted to walk with them (I forget now if my daughter was headed to the hotel or the bar across the street; I think the latter). Natalee cheerfully said no, she would catch up to the group right ahead and walk with them (implying she would be along in a few moments). My daughter had no idea she would not see Natalee again.

This part my daughter didn't see, but was told by her friends: That Natalie passed them on the road a short while later, and that she was a passenger in a taxi with another person. She clearly did not know she was in danger; she leaned out the window and shouted something like "Aruba!!! WOOHOO!" Still having a wonderful time.

I have read and heard other versions since then -- that she was actually seen getting in a car with three men; that she was alone with the guy in his car; that it was a grey car; that it has been impounded by the police. I don't know which is the accurate account.

The kids she passed assumed she was headed back to the hotel complex. No one thought there was any danger; obviously Natalee did not think so either.

That's the only bit I know was witnessed by my daughter or her other friends. But it is agreed that the guy misrepresented himself, and that she got in willingly. Also, I assume everyone in the bar had been drinking, but none of those who passed Natalee had the impression that Natalee was falling-down-drunk or anything like that. I mean to say, probably she had been drinking and wasn't exercising good judgement, but she wasn't bad off enough to cause concern, or someone with the group would have taken her back to the hotel. There were chaperones there, the kids were of legal drinking age, and no one realized there was any danger.

I'll post if I hear any more news, and now that the media is covering this, I'll very much appreciate reading anything that you guys find out.

Thanks, all!

[Ono]

I'm bring out the poor horse.............But this call with the monkey sounds is emerging as more and more pivotal to try to figure out what happened and when and where it occurred.
My recollection is that Dave dismissed the call. Beth was less sure than Dave that it should be dismissed in the Dr. Phil appearance. However, as time has passed, neither of them have given the call the place of importance in any interview I have witnessed that one would expect, if it were accepted as fact that Nat made the call. In fact, I have witnessed many times, Dave and Beth say that they are sure Nat was taken to Joran's after leaving C&Cs, but beyond that, they aren't sure of anything. What is the surety expressed in this forum based on? Wow, that sounds confrontive, doesn't it? That's not intentional....I have a tremendous amount of respect for the posters here. I'm just missing something and want to be as confident as others are. HELP! TIA.

CBB - the call they were discussing on the Dr. Phil show was a different call.  The reason Beth is so sure Natalee was in the VDS home is based on the call received on May 30th.  The call they were discussing  on the Dr. Phil show was much later, durring the hurricaines.

Page 190...Dave's book: "On Monday, October 3, 2005, Beth's private cell phone  received a voice mail message. When Beth went to retreive it, she heard the voice of a girl calling, "Mom, help me." She was able to hear other voices in the background. She reported the call to the FBI, and they were going to do a voice analysis to compare it to Natalee and also to attempt to determine from where the call originated."

[Ono]

CBB - the call they were discussing on the Dr. Phil show was a different call.  The reason Beth is so sure Natalee was in the VDS home is based on the call received on May 30th.  The call they were discussing  on the Dr. Phil show was much later, durring the hurricaines.

The monkey sounds must be loud because Beth even heard them from the VDS residence.

Yes, and I remember how Greta and Beth deliberately made a lot 'to do' over the monkey leading one to conclude that the monkey's presence/ sounds must play a part.

[Sleuth]

Where's Red and Tom?

Around....Tom very seldom posts (but I love it when he does - love your sense of humor, Tom).

I chatted with Red for a bit yesterday - he had a "honey do" list that he needed to work on.  I told him to say hi from me to the honey with the "do list"    

[Kat_Gram]

Do we still have any posters from Aruba?

I think we have a couple.  Linda ?

I hear Joran is back in Aruba for the summer and has a summer job.  I would like to know more about that.

Easy, it was Hotshot who provided some info last week that he was in the casino with some girlfriend. HotShot said that she had a friend in the Marriott who told that to her. I don't remember anyone seeing Joran " working"       although I did read on several sites that he had a job for the summer.