Lively Case Discussion #490 7/9 - 7/10/2006

[sharon]

What I want to know is if Gunslinger heard the call what is the verified time of the call??

Klaasend -- just a quick drive by while everyone thinks I'm in the loo

I remember 'Dash' said she heard the call last summer from the cell phone directly. IIRC -- she said she didn't think it was Natalee, but others did. I don't remember is she stated the time -- or what was said. Or if you can even retrieve any of her posts.

Or maybe I dreamed the whole thing (jk -- I may forget details, but my memory is pretty good)

[Anna]

.
Susebear,
I keep getting all sorts of email from those products, too, offers of free samples, and one even from Phillips Products soliciting me to purchase their electronics.  I never received them before so must conclude this is some sort of massive PR campaign by the Dutch to promote their products.  I also send Breck Bulbs my reason for not purchasing for the first time in probably fifteen years.

Maybe they will eventually get the message?

.

[blah]

Greta confimed on on her blog that there is a male voice on the call, saying "Are you calling home", supposedly C. Croes has confirmed that via e-mail as well.  Greta didn't mention any female voice on the call, neither did alleged Croes e-mail (e-mail also said male voice was preceeded by about a minute of moving vehicle sounds).
 
However I remember Dash/Alana Jordan saying she had heard the call and she couldn't understand what was being said but didn't think it sounded like Natalee (Dash's SM posts are archived on scrux, I think some of them are missing but it could be in there somewhere).  Apparently several MB kids listened to the call during the bus ride home.  And if it was just a male voice you'd think Alana would have specified that the voice wasn't even female.  So perhaps there was a very faint garbled female voice on the call too, before the male voice.  

I think the call probably wasn't from Natalee, and if it had been confirmed to be Natalee via voice analysis we would know that by now.  However it is possible that voice analysis wasn't able to determine whether it was her or not.  I had a discussion once with someone who seemed to know a lot about the subject and he said voice analysis is not as reliable as you see on TV, even if  FBI could clean it up enough to determine she was saying "I don't know these people", to confirm a match they would probably need tape of Natalee saying those same words, or at least some of the same words.

I dunno where you heard that BUT, voice analysis is VERY reliable, you can take it to the bank.  I know this because I have done some work in the voice recognition field.

[klaasend]

What I want to know is if Gunslinger heard the call what is the verified time of the call??

Klaasend -- just a quick drive by while everyone thinks I'm in the loo

I remember 'Dash' said she heard the call last summer from the cell phone directly. IIRC -- she said she didn't think it was Natalee, but others did. I don't remember is she stated the time -- or what was said. Or if you can even retrieve any of her posts.

Or maybe I dreamed the whole thing (jk -- I may forget details, but my memory is pretty good)

I remember Dash's conversations about it and she did listed to the call on the bus ride home.

I want to know if Gunslinger has listened to the call.

[sharon]

Sorry Shizaru -- I see I posted the same info about Dash. I hadn't read your comment yet. The embarrassing moments from being pages behind and only having time for the drive by. Sorry

[Anna]

.Voice analysis has made tremendous strides in recent years because of
the need for recognition in the War on Terror of whether it is in fact certain terrorists.  They can do much more than just a few short years ago.  High price for progress, huh?

.

[blah]

Greta confimed on on her blog that there is a male voice on the call, saying "Are you calling home", supposedly C. Croes has confirmed that via e-mail as well.  Greta didn't mention any female voice on the call, neither did alleged Croes e-mail (e-mail also said male voice was preceeded by about a minute of moving vehicle sounds).
 
However I remember Dash/Alana Jordan saying she had heard the call and she couldn't understand what was being said but didn't think it sounded like Natalee (Dash's SM posts are archived on scrux, I think some of them are missing but it could be in there somewhere).  Apparently several MB kids listened to the call during the bus ride home.  And if it was just a male voice you'd think Alana would have specified that the voice wasn't even female.  So perhaps there was a very faint garbled female voice on the call too, before the male voice.  

I think the call probably wasn't from Natalee, and if it had been confirmed to be Natalee via voice analysis we would know that by now.  However it is possible that voice analysis wasn't able to determine whether it was her or not.  I had a discussion once with someone who seemed to know a lot about the subject and he said voice analysis is not as reliable as you see on TV, even if  FBI could clean it up enough to determine she was saying "I don't know these people", to confirm a match they would probably need tape of Natalee saying those same words, or at least some of the same words.

I dunno where you heard that BUT, voice analysis is VERY reliable, you can take it to the bank.  I know this because I have done some work in the voice recognition field.

woops i didnt finish what i was saying.  You do not even need the person to speak the same words.  In alot of cases, all you need is about the first 20 milliseconds of the start of a word at the start of a sentence.  This portion of human speech is most consistent (such as during a phone call, when you answer the phone and say "hello" - the 1st 20 milliseconds of the word hello would be all you need to compare to a known sample of the persons voice.

[San]

Goodmorning All


SAN - are you here??

I am here now.

[thirdstrike]

.
The phone calls are now so hopelessly scrambled together that I don't think anybody knows which is which any more.  I thought the one to the MB kid was to one who did not go on the trip, the one CCroes called and talked to for 45 minutes.

None of the accounts I hear now are as I remember from the early days.  Don't think the family wants it straightened out and does prefer it remain in the mystery zone so we have no way to verify now.  Going back to the beginning and trying to find posts has become just about impossible.

Think I will just file the calls under Can of Worms and leave it there.  But it has become totally twisted from what was at the beginning and now I don't know what to think about them.

.

Dang Anna...I guess this time, we actually will agree to agree!!    I too think that as time passes, and frustrations continue to mount, facts become just a little more "intense" then they originally were.  Then, pople comment on them, and they suddenly replace the facts that were relied on earlier.  It's a progressive cycle...

BTW, how was your weekend?  

[Peaches]

Thank you, Thirdsy.   Took me until almost noon to get caught up!  My monitor bought the farm last week and I didn't get a different one until Sunday afternoon.  Well, then daughter snagged the computer anyway.  Interesting stuff discussed recently.

[klaasend]

Goodmorning All


SAN - are you here??

I am here now.

I'm so relieved!  There was a building that exploded in Manhatten today.  It held a DR's office and of course I immediately worried about you!  My husband tells me I worry too much, LOL  

[Frijole]

Goodmorning All


SAN - are you here??

I am here now.

I'm so relieved!  There was a building that exploded in Manhatten today.  It held a DR's office and of course I immediately worried about you!  My husband tells me I worry too much, LOL  

You aren't alone!  I thought of San first thing this a.m. when I heard it too!  Glad you are well our little buddy.  

[San]

Goodmorning All


SAN - are you here??

I am here now.

I'm so relieved!  There was a building that exploded in Manhatten today.  It held a DR's office and of course I immediately worried about you!  My husband tells me I worry too much, LOL  

They said on the news that it may have been a suicide attempt by the doctor in that office.

Thanks Klaas.

[klaasend]

San - Then of course, the voice of reason (Red) explained to me that NY is a big place, LOLOLOL    and that you were probably no where near it!

[Tylergal]

This is what is confirmed about the phone call:

Was to voice mail of William Morris, FEB's bf
Had male voice saying "Are you calling home"
Occured sometime in early morning hours May 30

That's it.  Everything else is just rumor.  The "I don't know these people" rumor was first posted on SM last summer by "atypical", who claimed to be the friend of a parent of an MB kid on the trip who had heard the call.  I don't believe it's even been confirmed that the call was at 3:00 am, even tho that often gets stated as fact.

And I'm sorry, but some anonymous person on a message board saying "I've heard the call" doesn't count as confirmation with me.  And even if it is true that there is a female voice on the call saying "I don't know these people", clearly that caller has not been confirmed to have been Natalee.

Thanks Shizaru - so not even the time is confirmed?

No, I'm pretty sure it isn't.  I don't think there's ever been any specific time reported for the call, the most specific report I was able to find was in the NE, which IIRC said the call was sometime between 1:00 am and 5:00 am.

ETA: I remember that Beth once said on Greta that she "knew" Natalee had been in the VDS home at 3:00, and then people immediately started speculating she knew that because of the phone call, then shortly after that people started saying that Beth had actually said she knew it because of the phone call, but she never did, she could have just meant she knew it based on gut feeling.  I think that is where the idea that the call was at 3:00 came from.

I heard the phone call discussed before Beth went to the Sloot house.  When Beth told Greta she knew now that Natalee was here, I immediately became suspicious that Beth had heard some kind of sound in the phone call equal to what she had heard in the house, perhaps a clock striking, etc.  I believed it was a clock striking because the time was said to be 3 a.m.  The phone call was discussed on TV within a few hours of Natalee going missing.

[San]

You aren't alone!  I thought of San first thing this a.m. when I heard it too!  Glad you are well our little buddy.  

Thanks Frijole.

[Shizaru]

.
The phone calls are now so hopelessly scrambled together that I don't think anybody knows which is which any more.  I thought the one to the MB kid was to one who did not go on the trip, the one CCroes called and talked to for 45 minutes.

My understanding is that when Beth arrived she played the call to Morris' voice mail for Croes, and then Croes called Morris and spoke to him for 45 minutes.

[Tylergal]

Just a quick semi-off topic question. I understand the board is not quite up to par yet -- but why would it be that at my work, I stay "logged-in" on this forum board and at home, I get "logged-out" after about 2 hours. I have my cookies enabled the same at both (I think). Any ideas? Thanks!

I have the same thing, depends on which computer I am on at my house (since we have five, some for business and for pleasure), and another thing that is wonky for me.  I accidentally put a monkey on "block messenger" when I meant to put someone else on "block messenger," the person above it who was sending me a virus.  I realized what I had done and blocked the virus person (from the Netherlands) and then went to unblock the monkey.  I can get the monkey mail on three computers but that person remains blocked on 2.  I have even tried powering down after removing the "block this messenger" in order to make that work and alas, after 3-4 days it is blocking again.  Can we just say "Technology is not where it will be in another 25 years."

[Tylergal]

Thanks Shizaru.

Did William Morris make the trip to Aruba, or was he in Mountain Brook?

Is this the "Charles Croes" call?

It was my understanding that he was on the trip and discovered the message when he was playing back messages when he was at the airport waiting to leave Aruba.

On the bus going to Birmigham after leaving Atl International.

[Shizaru]

.
The phone calls are now so hopelessly scrambled together that I don't think anybody knows which is which any more.  I thought the one to the MB kid was to one who did not go on the trip, the one CCroes called and talked to for 45 minutes.

My understanding is that when Beth arrived she played the call to Morris' voice mail for Croes, and then Croes called Morris and spoke to him for 45 minutes.

To be clear. Morris was o the trip, but had returned to MB by the time Croes called him.