Lively Case Discussion #549 11/27 - 11/28/2006

[shadow]

Antonio Carlo

The conscience-plagued sloot attorney seems to have had second thoughts about his role in covering up a murder, and his own culpability, if his deviant and psychologically-tortured client happens to harm another girl.

The exchange descibed by De Vreis between Jannsen and Carlo, where Carlo evidently approached Jannsen w/ relevant information about the case, and indicates he is aware that jvds bears criminal responsibility for Natalee's disappearance (murder, rape, etc).  

This is strange indeed.  And borders on legal malpractice which could void any judgement against jvds in the future.  And what does Jannsen do?  She attempts to broker further info and Carlo says she'll have to find the "evidence" herself.  And where do we end up?

Nowhere.  Right where we were.

De Vreis attempts to interview Carlo re: these strange events, and Antonio does what all Dutch Arubans do best: he deflects and then runs away.

IMO, the De Vreis show accomplished much in terms of informing and educating Dutch audiences about the events surrounding the murder of Natalee.

I think one of the things accomplished also was the destruction of Karin Jannsen's career.  She deserves it, and verily so, for her base and incompetent handling of this case, and by leading the false arrests of the security guards.

De Vreis should get this incompetent and dangerous woman ( who actually had the temerity and gall to write in a letter to the US Dept of Justice inquiring whether Beth Holloway Twitty was directly related to Adolph Hitler ) on his show next for a detailed interview.  

Her record in this case should be broadcast, as warning to people everywhere who want or need to know the state of jurisprudence in the place formerly known as Aruba.

.

I agree 100%. and as far as . . .
Dutchlady on Trophy-Taking
From Scared Monkeys September 21, 2005:
IMO the video or images were taken and shared, but not shared via the internet, but via portable hard drive. I still feel there is a connection to Miami. Can anyone confirm that Paulus traveled to Miami shortly after the disapearance of Natalee? Maybe he is the Miami connection . . . anyone know if he traveled to Miami frequently?

I also have a supicsion regarding Satish and D not wanting him involved.

Evening Monkeys!

[shadow]

Any word yet on whether the transcript of de Vries' show has been posted?  I can't wait to read it.

In our De Vries thread I've posted a translation of part of the first 1/2 that was posted on another site (FOB).  Mostly just background stuff we already knew.

Thank you Klass!

[yapperz1]

Evening Monkeys

There was a post in early July by someone who had just returned from Aruba. This person claims they saw Paulus at the airport in Aruba as they were leaving the island.

[Shizaru]

From the tscript in DeVries thread:  

 

The night before her disappearance Natalee started drinking alcohol at 10 am in the morning and had to be carried back to her hotel room at night by her roommates/friends.

Lee's statement was that Natalee was "escorted" back to her room by one person.  Not carried by a group of people.  Why did the program feel the need to exaggerate here?

Shizaru - don't forget this is being translated from Dutch to English.  I think it's just something in the translation.  I wouldn't make that much of it.

Maybe, let's see how Ramm translates it.    

Of course the big question re: the DeVries program is why the ****  is it that they couldn't give Natalee's family any advance warning about the allegations they were going to make against Natalee (and as of last night weren't responding to inquires from Natalee's family about those allegations), but they could give that information out to an Internet poster over the phone?

[memphis]

From the tscript in DeVries thread:  

 

The night before her disappearance Natalee started drinking alcohol at 10 am in the morning and had to be carried back to her hotel room at night by her roommates/friends.

Lee's statement was that Natalee was "escorted" back to her room by one person.  Not carried by a group of people.  Why did the program feel the need to exaggerate here?

Shizaru, I saw a post where Ramm at BFN (I think) later corrected the "carried" part to "escorted".

[LilPuma]

You know with this picture of Joran and Natalee is disturbing to me. I can't get it out of my head. ugh!

Taking or making of souviners from or of the victim(s) is evidence of fantasy at work.  Joran has major issues.

GET THE BOY HELP NOW ANITA! Please, before another girl falls victim to your ill-begotten son.

she cant help her boy... she cant help herself

I've often wondered about Anita:  
A.  Is she covering for Joran and Paulus, knowing full well what they do, what kind of men they really are?  

B.  Does she "know" but not really know, and is in denial?  

C.  Is she truly clueless, believing her men are innocent of all charges?

[dkpen]

You know with this picture of Joran and Natalee is disturbing to me. I can't get it out of my head. ugh!

Taking or making of souviners from or of the victim(s) is evidence of fantasy at work.  Joran has major issues.

GET THE BOY HELP NOW ANITA! Please, before another girl falls victim to your ill-begotten son.

she cant help her boy... she cant help herself

I've often wondered about Anita:  
A.  Is she covering for Joran and Paulus, knowing full well what they do, what kind of men they really are?  

B.  Does she "know" but not really know, and is in denial?  

C.  Is she truly clueless, believing her men are innocent of all charges?

B.  Does she "know" but not really know, and is in denial?  

I have to agree with B.

[memphis]

From the tscript in DeVries thread:  

 

The night before her disappearance Natalee started drinking alcohol at 10 am in the morning and had to be carried back to her hotel room at night by her roommates/friends.

Lee's statement was that Natalee was "escorted" back to her room by one person.  Not carried by a group of people.  Why did the program feel the need to exaggerate here?

Shizaru, I saw a post where Ramm at BFN (I think) later corrected the "carried" part to "escorted".

I'm trying to find it...

[Tylergal]

You know with this picture of Joran and Natalee is disturbing to me. I can't get it out of my head. ugh!

Taking or making of souviners from or of the victim(s) is evidence of fantasy at work.  Joran has major issues.

GET THE BOY HELP NOW ANITA! Please, before another girl falls victim to your ill-begotten son.

she cant help her boy... she cant help herself

I've often wondered about Anita:  
A.  Is she covering for Joran and Paulus, knowing full well what they do, what kind of men they really are?  

B.  Does she "know" but not really know, and is in denial?  

C.  Is she truly clueless, believing her men are innocent of all charges?

Enabler who was called back from Holland to help coordinate stories, enabler of the first degree.

[Tylergal]

Anita knows all and makes the stories as she can be objective.  She is the one who has given them the stories to tell.  Why else would she call on Freddy to help her?  Because she knows Joran will not tell her the truth and she wanted Paulus and Joran out of the room so she could hear everything; thus, she could help them coordinate the stories.  If Joran is the spawn of Satan, what does that make Anita?

[LilPuma]

I really want to be a FLY on the wall of the investigators
in Holland that have taken over the case.. I really wonder
what they are thinking and what exactly they are doing
if anything

DeVries timing on this was perfect.  Hopefully, if anyone wanted to just stamp it Cold Case and forgetaboutit, this show will have given them some info and motivation not to do so.  (Now that I know we have an English teacher, I changed "not to" to "not to do so."  That's better, right?)  

[klaasend]

Here is a portion of the De Vries show made available by Daniel at FOB - you should be able to just click on the image and it will play:

[IBE]

Thanks Hammer for bringing Dutchlady back in.

It's too bad we couldn't raise the $$ for her, for she wished to go to Aruba to solve the case. Has anyone heard from her or about what she is doing now?

I remember following her, Anna, Aruba girl and many others who are still dedicated on this post. I followed them from Rheil World (sp) very early on and also in some travel site.

We must never give up until Natalee has come home in all sense of the word.

Keep up the Good Works, Monkeys! through thick and thin.

IBE

[LilPuma]

Anita knows all and makes the stories as she can be objective.  She is the one who has given them the stories to tell.  Why else would she call on Freddy to help her?  Because she knows Joran will not tell her the truth and she wanted Paulus and Joran out of the room so she could hear everything; thus, she could help them coordinate the stories.  If Joran is the spawn of Satan, what does that make Anita?

I think Anita's in denial.  She knows what her boys are up to but can't deal with it.  Now she has Beth to blame, so life is better.   I haven't read the translation yet but did Jacobs really call Joran the Devil?    

[memphis]

Klaas, the screen capture of Joran's and Kee's exchange is amazing.

Anyone, do you know when those pictures of Natalee and her friends were first posted at RU?

I'm reading Daniel's posts over at FOB.  

[Buckeye]

Klaas

Looks like you'll have to change the peeping through the blinds picture to the peeping through the curtains..

[klaasend]

Klaas

Looks like you'll have to change the peeping through the blinds picture to the peeping through the curtains..

    That's the first thing I thought of when I saw that too!!  

[klaasend]

Klaas, the screen capture of Joran's and Kee's exchange is amazing.

Anyone, do you know when those pictures of Natalee and her friends were first posted at RU?

I'm reading Daniel's posts over at FOB.  

Others may remember better than I but I believe it was around the same time,  January 2006.

[memphis]

The following is from FOB....

Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 08:56 am  
 
MoonShadows wrote:
de Vries implied Joran tried to "create false evidence" of a previous relationship with Natalee with the picture.  It seems that's what Daniel is implying as well.  


Daniel wrote: I don't think it was intended as evidence of anything in particular.

De Vries does not know why that photoshop job was done, or he would have used that information in his show.

Note that the original photo of Natalee and her girlfriend was not in wide circulation on the net yet when Joran had it photoshopped on Jan 25/26 of this year. Only a very small circle of trusted people had it.

I'm trying to get my mind around the implications here.  

[IBE]

On of the Monkeys mentioned that the earrings on Natalee we missing in Joran's photoshopped picture.

Would this have any psychological implications or wasn't there an earring supposedly shown to the mom?

Memory is vague. Help please?

I seem to remember a discussion of the earrings was important early on.