Lively Case Discussion #549 11/27 - 11/28/2006

[klaasend]

The following is from FOB....

Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 08:56 am  
 
MoonShadows wrote:
de Vries implied Joran tried to "create false evidence" of a previous relationship with Natalee with the picture.  It seems that's what Daniel is implying as well.  


Daniel wrote: I don't think it was intended as evidence of anything in particular.

De Vries does not know why that photoshop job was done, or he would have used that information in his show.

Note that the original photo of Natalee and her girlfriend was not in wide circulation on the net yet when Joran had it photoshopped on Jan 25/26 of this year. Only a very small circle of trusted people had it.

I'm trying to get my mind around the implications here.  

If I remember correctly, it was Stinkeypete that posted those photos from the MB kids facebook accounts.

[Buckeye]

Since we know Joran had some type of therapy....I am sure that Anita was well informed of his disorder.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.  The FBI, Dutch behaviorists and even Dompig nailed it.  Yes, Anita knew before all the rest.  She may have ignored it or assisted in covering his bad behavior....but she wasn't ignorant.  IMO

[IBE]

In regard to the discussion about hard drives and dissimination of information...

Remember Anna's comments about the lack of info from the hard drive company that "looked" at Joran's hard drive?

Also a CD is much quicker to disminate info... can be mailed or hand given, thus no "digital trail" per se.

Too bad none of the police checked the hard disk drives at the Internet Cafe or conveniently "forgot" to check???

[Ono]

monsters like joran do things like the picture thing because they THINK they are UNTOUCHABLE


so did CAPONE  


didnt capone die in PRISON

While at Alcatraz, he exhibited signs of syphilitic dementia. Capone spent the rest of his felony sentence in the hospital. On January 6, 1939, his prison term expired and he was transferred to Terminal Island, a Federal Correctional Institution in California, to serve his one-year misdemeanor sentence. He was finally released on November 16, 1939, but still had to pay fines and court costs of $37,617.51.

After his release, Capone spent a short time in the hospital. He returned to his home in Palm Island where the rest of his life was relaxed and quiet. His mind and body continued to deteriorate so that he could no longer run the outfit. On January 21, 1947, he had an apoplectic stoke that was probably unrelated to his syphilis. He regained consciousness and began to improve until pneumonia set in on January 24. He died the next day from cardiac arrest. Capone was first buried in Mount Olivet Cemetery in Chicago's far South Side between the graves of his father, Gabriele, and brother, Frank, but in March of 1950 the remains of all three were moved to Mount Carmel Cemetery on the far West Side.

But they "got" Capone on tax evasion and that is why he was imprisioned....not because of all of his dastardly deeds.  I have always wondered why Joran, etc. was not charged and surely could have been convicted with kidnapping.

[memphis]

This is a screen capture from the show....




and this is a translation by HannieC....


The first picture has to be used. And the guy in the second, third, fourth, or fifth has to be placed in the first picture ( You can choose which one is the easiest to use) The best would be if this one would be pasted onto that girl ( so that that girl who`s standing on the left in the first pic is not seen anymore, if that isn`t really possible, than you have to put this guy just over her)
If that looks believable, and they buy it,than i will make sure you`ll get €200,-- from Kees.
If it isn`t possible, than we can let this guy make a picture that he fits in excactly,
but we don`t have a lot of time.

Thanks,.....( looks like---> and if you have any questions), you can call Kees, or mail me back

[Tylergal]

The following is from FOB....

Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 08:56 am  
 
MoonShadows wrote:
de Vries implied Joran tried to "create false evidence" of a previous relationship with Natalee with the picture.  It seems that's what Daniel is implying as well.  


Daniel wrote: I don't think it was intended as evidence of anything in particular.

De Vries does not know why that photoshop job was done, or he would have used that information in his show.

Note that the original photo of Natalee and her girlfriend was not in wide circulation on the net yet when Joran had it photoshopped on Jan 25/26 of this year. Only a very small circle of trusted people had it.

I'm trying to get my mind around the implications here.  

the small circle of friends could be those at RU who illegally obtained the photo via the face books, and it was pretty early in January, if memory serves.  I would be willing to bet Nonesuche has the dates on that.  Is someone implying that Joran got these pictures or they were obtained from Joran from others?  It is likely that someone who illegally obtained these photographs "relayed" them to Joran.

[Tylergal]

On of the Monkeys mentioned that the earrings on Natalee we missing in Joran's photoshopped picture.

Would this have any psychological implications or wasn't there an earring supposedly shown to the mom?

Memory is vague. Help please?

I seem to remember a discussion of the earrings was important early on.

If that is the case, I would say he either took the earrings as a souvenir or that during a confrontation they were ripped from her ears.  Speaking of stealing the gold from your dead mother's teeth. . .

[Ono]

Antonio Carlo

The conscience-plagued sloot attorney seems to have had second thoughts about his role in covering up a murder, and his own culpability, if his deviant and psychologically-tortured client happens to harm another girl.

The exchange descibed by De Vreis between Jannsen and Carlo, where Carlo evidently approached Jannsen w/ relevant information about the case, and indicates he is aware that jvds bears criminal responsibility for Natalee's disappearance (murder, rape, etc).  

This is strange indeed.  And borders on legal malpractice which could void any judgement against jvds in the future.  And what does Jannsen do?  She attempts to broker further info and Carlo says she'll have to find the "evidence" herself.  And where do we end up?

Nowhere.  Right where we were.

De Vreis attempts to interview Carlo re: these strange events, and Antonio does what all Dutch Arubans do best: he deflects and then runs away.

IMO, the De Vreis show accomplished much in terms of informing and educating Dutch audiences about the events surrounding the murder of Natalee.

I think one of the things accomplished also was the destruction of Karin Jannsen's career.  She deserves it, and verily so, for her base and incompetent handling of this case, and by leading the false arrests of the security guards.

De Vreis should get this incompetent and dangerous woman ( who actually had the temerity and gall to write in a letter to the US Dept of Justice inquiring whether Beth Holloway Twitty was directly related to Adolph Hitler ) on his show next for a detailed interview.  

Her record in this case should be broadcast, as warning to people everywhere who want or need to know the state of jurisprudence in the place formerly known as Aruba.

.

Hammer: So very well stated (as always) ...I agree.

[Tylergal]

Since we know Joran had some type of therapy....I am sure that Anita was well informed of his disorder.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.  The FBI, Dutch behaviorists and even Dompig nailed it.  Yes, Anita knew before all the rest.  She may have ignored it or assisted in covering his bad behavior....but she wasn't ignorant.  IMO

I absolutely agree.

[Ono]

JANNSEN is in BED with PAULUS





i know i know i know


after you read the above statement please feel free to take a LONG HOT SHOWER to get rid of the GROSS feeling while your imagination goes HAY WIRE  

Well...I've always wondered if that was actually & literally true. And have also wondered if they were deeply and heavily involved in a passionate lover's tryst the night that Natalee was harmed.  I've wondered that, as well as wondering, if indeed, Paulus was also one of those sexually attacking a helpless Natalee at his home. It's a toss up.

[memphis]

Daniel thinks Joran sent the email and copied himself.

Where is everyone?

[San]

You know with this picture of Joran and Natalee is disturbing to me. I can't get it out of my head. ugh!

Taking or making of souviners from or of the victim(s) is evidence of fantasy at work.  Joran has major issues.

GET THE BOY HELP NOW ANITA! Please, before another girl falls victim to your ill-begotten son.

she cant help her boy... she cant help herself

I've often wondered about Anita:  
A.  Is she covering for Joran and Paulus, knowing full well what they do, what kind of men they really are?  

B.  Does she "know" but not really know, and is in denial?  

C.  Is she truly clueless, believing her men are innocent of all charges?

Anita knows exactly what they are and knows the whole story.  Those tears we saw are only because they got caught.

[robots]

JANNSEN is in BED with PAULUS





i know i know i know


after you read the above statement please feel free to take a LONG HOT SHOWER to get rid of the GROSS feeling while your imagination goes HAY WIRE  

Well...I've always wondered if that was actually & literally true. And have also wondered if they were deeply and heavily involved in a passionate lover's tryst the night that Natalee was harmed.  I've wondered that, as well as wondering, if indeed, Paulus was also one of those sexually attacking a helpless Natalee at his home. It's a toss up.

yep

[robots]

Daniel thinks Joran sent the email and copied himself.

Where is everyone?

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[memphis]

Did Joran hack into the MySpace account himself and get the pics?

(email is hackers_rule@hotmaill.com)

I'm really not sure what this means, but I think it is big.

[klaasend]

Posted/translated by Tjeerd at FOB:

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/




Dagboek van maandag 27 november (Diary of Monday 27 November)


 "Joran van der Sloot is ziek". ("Joran vd Sloot  is ill") Uiteindelijk is deze uitspraak van een van zijn beste vrienden de kern van de hele uitzending van gisteravond, van Peter de Vries, over de zaak Natalee Holloway. (Eventually this is a statement of one of Joran's best friends the core of the whole programme of yesterday, of PdV, about the case Natalee Holloway) Ik vind het overtuigend. ( I find it convincing) Ik dacht eerst ook dat een normale jongen van zeventien die je aan strenge politieverhoren onderwerpt, wel door zal slaan (First I also  thought .a normal boy of seventeen who is confronted to heavy police interviews will squeal)  Maar Joran is niet zo normaal. (But Joran is not so normal)Ik had destijds ook al wat twijfels bij die rare website van hem, maar dat hij en zijn vader zo doortrapt zouden zijn als ze nu werden afgeschilderd kon ik toen nog niet bevroeden (I had then some doubts about his strange website of his, but that he and his father would be so wicked as they are now depicted I could not have predicted). Wel vreemd dat al die Amerikaanse verslaggevers niks zinnigs boven water wisten te krijgen, hoe professioneel zijn die Amerikaanse journalisten eigenlijk? Of hebben ze hier alleen hun sensatiepoot voor laten uitrukken? (Quite strange all these American journalists could find nothing useful really, how professional are these American journalists? Or have they only sent their sensation section? )

Ik ben ook erg benieuwd wat Revu-collega Zvetzana, die bezig is met een boek over de affaire, van de uitzending vindt. ( I am very anxious what Revu collegae Zvetzana who writes a book on this affair thinks of the programme)Zij heeft veel contact gehad met de familie Van der Sloot. (She has had much contact with the family Van der Sloot) Ik heb haar inmiddels even gebeld en uiteraard heeft ze met veel interesse gekeken, maar ze mag er niks over zeggen, van de uitgever.(I have phoned her today and she watched it with much interest but she is not supposed to say anything because of the publisher) Off the record hebben we nog wel wat gebabbeld, dat blijft uiteraard onder de pet.(Off the reccord we have chatted a bit but I will say nothing ) Haar boek komt in april uit (Her book will appear in April). Foto rechts: de gemanipuleerde foto die Joran van zichzelf en Natalee liet maken en waaruit zou moeten blijken dat hij bij Natalee thuis is geweest. (Photo right: the manipulated picture which Joran had made of himself and Natalee and which had to appear as if he had been at Natalee's place)

Comment by Tjeerd:

What is this all about? This man is supposed to be an crime expert?? This is  pathetic!!! I think De Vries tries to change public opinion indeed....

Tomorrow I will mail this Korterink what this is all about....

[Buckeye]

Can the Netherlands encumber the money Joran might get from a book until the case goes to trial??

[klaasend]

Posted on the front page of SM by Maarten:

Joran is living in a student house in Zevenaar, near to Arnhem, The Netherlands. He don’t speak to the press, has to hide something in my opinion.

[lexie]

I have been thinking about this photoshopped pic.  What could have been the possible reason for paying so much to have a picture of himself at Natleee's house?  And the timing of it.....  The only thing I can think of is that he was possibly going to turn it over to the publisher of his book.... an effort to clear himself?  How could such an obvious forgery be taken seriously by anyone??  

Any other ideas about why he would want such a picture?

[Kat_Gram]

Can the Netherlands encumber the money Joran might get from a book until the case goes to trial??

I don't know what their laws are. When it was announced that he was going to write a book, the family , I hope would work thru JQK.
Using images of Natalee, would that be legal ?