Lively Case Discussion #549 11/27 - 11/28/2006

[Anna]

I know Beth would be loath to do it, but I cannot believe that she would fail to win a civil suit against named legal authorities who handled this case even if the case were brought in Aruba.

And there is an instance of a $19 million judgment against the government of Aruba for a trial in THIS country, too, and over a race track they promised to build then didn't.

So this government can freeze assets in this country, too.

Isn't that a nice thing to know!

I am feeling hopeful again for the first time in ages!!

/

[crazybabyborg]

Who signed the original warrant is a question I'd like to know too. But even if it was Witt, it was altered without due process of any kind.

Another little difference in their system--I am not sure if we can even get access to public records like this.  Maybe deVries can.

I am hoping he is already onto this irregularity, too.

.

I believe that "who signed the original warrant" is something that can be answered within the cage, but not by this monkey. We should be able to determine the "due process" question generically without it being specific to this case. What we already know is that a search warrant was required and that it specifically named the entire area to be searched. We just have to find out by what method that legally could be altered. I do not believe their system would require a legal warrant and then allow it's terms to be arbitrarily abandoned without due procedure.

[Anna]

We had better all head to bed but it is exciting to think that there may at least be exposure of those blocking the investigation as Beth said tonight.  And more than ever, I am thankful for our own justice system for while not perfect, something like this at least would never fly!!

.

[Kat_Gram]

here is a link where there are topics, very basis, but it is good for the dates.
http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/natalee_2.htm

[crazybabyborg]

Good advice again, Anna and I'm going to follow it! Night all!

[Anna]

here is a link where there are topics, very basis, but it is good for the dates.
http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/natalee_2.htm

I clicked on the one about searching the teens home and it says only his apartment as well.

Also about taking two vehicles belonging to the Sloots.  That was an odd move considering Joran claims he can't drive and is too young to have a license.  I wonder if they had a reason to do that or if they were just doing it to look official.

Sometimes I think I think about all this in my sleep for will wake up with a different take on something than I went to bed with.  Guess that is what they mean by sleeping on something.

[IBE]

Anna and all Good Monkeys,

Keep going on the Good Works!

Remember the rumor that the "elders" were in the Sloot house that night for a poker game? Maybe they were there "when something bad happened" and this is the reason for such a big amount of curruption and coverup?

Just thoughts IMO

IBE

[IBE]

Sorry, the bold face was supposed to be on your names, not the whole thing!  Off to bed. Good night!

[IBE]

PS

When looking for Dutchlady's posts, don't forget to check in the "Code Talkers" tread, if anyone has saved it. I hope so; it was a wild ride with Shango's code.

[crazybabyborg]

Just peeking back in for a second to offer any morning monkies a big smooch from Marilyn if they can definitively answer who signed the search warrant that Witt narrowed................ TIA! OK, I'm "peeking back out" now. Night!

[Leslie]

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
AweMainta
http://www.awemainta.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

[San]

Think I've said this before, I'm pretty sure that Antonio was ordered to hire PVDS so PVDS could keep Antonio undercontrol.

Bingo Carnut.  In my opinion this is exactly why he was hired.  This is why Paulus was forced to be sworn in as a Lawyer.  I think a lot of us found it strange why he would hire Paulus and now we have our questioned answered.  Karin Janssen informed Paulus of what Antonio Carlo did and told Paulus to watch his back.

[justinsmama]

Think I've said this before, I'm pretty sure that Antonio was ordered to hire PVDS so PVDS could keep Antonio undercontrol.

Bingo Carnut.  In my opinion this is exactly why he was hired.  This is why Paulus was forced to be sworn in as a Lawyer.  I think a lot of us found it strange why he would hire Paulus and now we have our questioned answered.  Karin Janssen informed Paulus of what Antonio Carlo did and told Paulus to watch his back.

OMG. It goes deep with this scum.

[bleachedblack]

Just peeking back in for a second to offer any morning monkies a big smooch from Marilyn if they can definitively answer who signed the search warrant that Witt narrowed................ TIA! OK, I'm "peeking back out" now. Night!

Morning CBB and all Monks........stopping by to say hi, and see if any new news has been posted.......although last nights greta interview with Mr. DeVries was the most encouragement felt  in some time.......

[bleachedblack]

Browsing the net, found this post from Dan July 3, 2005..........a reminder to me of just how much was known to have happened at the time, but was brushed under the rug to put it mildly.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I was and still am a bit leary of this report on corruption in the Dutch justice system in Aruba: some facts appear to be incorrect. For instance, Paul(us) v d Sloot is not a "high-ranking official."

    The habitual impartiality has been demonstrated in the past with several cases, one case in particular stands out. The case of Alexander Mathew against a Dutch government official, Ben Vocking whom now goes by the name of Ben King .

    In this particular case documents disappeared, forensic reports were over looked and witnesses were denied, these documents were in the favor of Alexander Mathew. Paul van der Sloot is a high ranking official in the judicial system and is close friends with Ben King, whom now works at the prosecution office. King was reportedly seen visiting Paul van der Sloot at his home when the Arubian police were performing a search of the van der Sloot residence. Mathew's entire case was tampered with.

    King said that his friend Paul van der Sloot helped him in the Mathew case. How many cases has and will Paul van der Sloot help cover up?

However, I do find it curious that an official so close to the PM would 1) change his name and 2) exercise such poor judgement in the Natalee Holloway case that it now appears he has taken a vacation and, from all appearances, will continue to be of assistance or support to the Van der Sloot's in some way.

An article I found in Dutch - scroll down to fifth article - looked curious, so I asked Begga from Hasibokos to translate.

Translation: The Public Ministry (Aruban prosecutor's office) affirmed that Ben King, head of the support division of the Attorney General, was present at the house of the Van der Sloot family when it was being searched Thursday last week.

Spokesperson Marianne Croes, of the prosecutor's office: “King was and is on holiday. He was indeed not present on behalf of the PM (during the search of the van der Sloot estate)” The spokesperson doesn’t want to comment on the various observations that find it strange that a member of the PM was present at the house of the suspects family while the search took place.

Sources within the PM affirm however that the PM as a whole is not happy at all with the actions of Ben King, because this may raise doubts with regard to the impartiality of the ministry. .

King himself says that he and his family have been good friends with the Van der Sloots for some years now. Paul van der Sloot also worked for the PM in the past. King: “A few years ago, when I was working at KIA (local prison), I was maltreated by a prisoner and went through a rough period during which the Van der Sloot family provided us with fantastic support. We want to do the same for them now. But I realize naturally that I cannot stand at both sides on the line.”

And because of this King took some time off from his job to be able to support his friends. King: “It is a small island where conclusions are drawn very fast.” Both Public Ministry and I realize that we have to remain cool-headed. At the same time I have my rights as private-citizen and I want to support my friends in this difficult period.” Ben King was formerly named Vocking, he changed his name a few months ago and his name is now officially King.

http://tinyurl.com/yl6lk3

[lili]

Anna and all Good Monkeys,

Keep going on the Good Works!

Remember the rumor that the "elders" were in the Sloot house that night for a poker game? Maybe they were there "when something bad happened" and this is the reason for such a big amount of curruption and coverup?

Just thoughts IMO

IBE

Actually completely agree with you.  I believe that Witt was there as well.

[San]

And it was King who changed his name after the Mathews case?

Where human rights were proofed to be violated and I think, evidence was changed or lost. I believe that Paulus van der Sloot also worked on that case with King.

Also, wasn't it King withwhom the Sloots stayed while Joran was in prison? using the excuse of staying away from the media at their home and the cementing of the pool area?

Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks

IBE

Yes, the Sloots stayed at Ben King's while Joran was in prison and there was suspicion that Joran was coming home at nights with Ben King and spending nights there instead of in Kia.  Also, Paulus is the one who helped Ben (Voc)King during the episode that involved Matthews, for which the United Nations (not that I love that organization) and Amnesty International as well as other organizations were scrutinizing Ben Voc(King) and possibly PVDS for their illegal and inhumane actions.  

One of the posters at RWV lived on the same street as Ben VocKing and verified that the Sloots were staying there.

This is why I believe Paulus is capable of murder along with Joran.  I always said that Paulus could have made the decision not to help a severely injured Natalee.  He makes me sick.

Also, De Vries said last night that the police wanted to search areas of the Van der Sloot property and they were not allowed.  Apparently one of the areas was the garden.  In Paulus' statement he said he was working in his garden.  What was Paulus hiding in the garden.  Could it have been Natalee's clothes, shoes or even Natalee depending who was helping him that day.  Or could it have been Joran's K-Swiss sneakers.  Either way they did not want those search dogs around the property.  Is the garden the Plain View we are talking about.

[klaasend]

Posted by MF at FOB:


As we all know de Vries in his program talked about a leak of information in which he said that in the beginning of the case, Mr Carlo contacted Karen Jansen and asked to meet since he had information for her. They met after hours at Karen's Office (secret ?) where he told her that he has information and needed to get it off his chest. That Joran has had an active role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway but he cannot proof it, that it is up to her to do that. De Vries' words.

Later in the case, Janssen send him a letter in which she referred their conversation and Carlo replied that it was not what he told her.

Today Carlo, denied ever saying that to Janssen, that in anyway accused Joran or said something about Joran's having a role in Natalee's disappearance. He acknowledged their meeting, but had to do with internal proceedings and also acknowledged communication afterwards.

He said that de Vries' claims are unfounded and also recorded in his office without any authorization as we can see that he had a hidden camera and he reminded that on November 30, 2006 he will be in court to ask the legal investigation be stopped against his client.


GOODMORNING ALL!  Reminder I'm just lurking this morning prior to class.

[Peaches]

Tylergal wrote;

I thought everyone was pretty nice to Dutch Lady. She never posted much on the Lively. She posted in other areas. She was a difficult read, at best but interesting to say the least and always insightful.

She really did take alot of bashing at times......sometimes I think she would sound so absolutely positive of what she was "seeing" that people took it wrong and thought of her as a psychic, which I think was not the case. She may have been in part, or at least a person with "special gifts", but I know she is a criminologist and gains insight into who may have perpetrated a particular crime by doing some type of triangulation of the suspects movements around the time a crime was commited.

Good morning.  I was always fascinated by Dutchlady's posts.  I think many times she was right on top of it.  I wish she would pop back in and share her current thoughts on the case.

[igsigs]

Today Carlo, denied ever saying that to Janssen, that in anyway accused Joran or said something about Joran's having a role in Natalee's disappearance. He acknowledged their meeting, but had to do with internal proceedings.

Internal proceedings? lol