Lively Case Discussion #549 11/27 - 11/28/2006

[blah]

i missed Beth on Greta last night, what did she say about scared monkeys ?

[igsigs]

Q: IS KARIN JANSSEN A CRIMINAL?

Exhibit A from De Vries.
"Mr. Carlo said yeah I have to clear my conscience I can tell you that my client Joran has played a major role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and I want you to know that."

Exhibit B from De Vries.
Janssen response to De Vries per MF. "Janssen just answered some of the questions she was asked in writing by e-mail. She defended the program Opsporings Verzocht were the focus were not on Joran or the Kalpoe brothers but gave a broader look so it might trigger other information that had nothing to do with the suspects. She said she was personally involved and oversaw the production of the program. In the program there was no emphasis put on the size of the shoe or the shoe itself and how he got home and this is what Karin wanted. And she defended her decision. She wanted that the investigation to be as broad as possible and not focused on Joran and his friends."

A: YES![/color]

[blah]

Q: IS KARIN JANSSEN A CRIMINAL?

Exhibit A from De Vries.
"Mr. Carlo said yeah I have to clear my conscience I can tell you that my client Joran has played a major role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and I want you to know that."

Exhibit B from De Vries.
Janssen response to De Vries per MF. "Janssen just answered some of the questions she was asked in writing by e-mail. She defended the program Opsporings Verzocht were the focus were not on Joran or the Kalpoe brothers but gave a broader look so it might trigger other information that had nothing to do with the suspects. She said she was personally involved and oversaw the production of the program. In the program there was no emphasis put on the size of the shoe or the shoe itself and how he got home and this is what Karin wanted. And she defended her decision. She wanted that the investigation to be as broad as possible and not focused on Joran and his friends."

A: YES![/color]

So i think we can assume that it was HER idea to use someone who looked, talked, and acting NOTHING like Joran to portray him.

[Bobo2]

i missed Beth on Greta last night, what did she say about scared monkeys ?

Beth: No not anything and you know were just so fortunate we were able to make that move in Amsterdam and for Peter De Vries to pick up on Scaredmonkeys.com and delve into the statements because otherwise we would not even now finally find out the persons who were involved like I said in derailing the investigation.

[blah]

i missed Beth on Greta last night, what did she say about scared monkeys ?

Beth: No not anything and you know were just so fortunate we were able to make that move in Amsterdam and for Peter De Vries to pick up on Scaredmonkeys.com and delve into the statements because otherwise we would not even now finally find out the persons who were involved like I said in derailing the investigation.

allright!!!  Thanks Bobo2 !!!!

[blah]

when I first saw the photo Joran had made for him I really didnt think a whole lot of it other than it was a stupid thing to do and in very bad tatse.

The more I think about it, the more bizaare i think it is.  What kind of sicko does something like that?  He and his little pimp wanna-bes probably laugh about it and think it is funny.  What purpose could it serve other than to entertain themselves in some sort of sick twisted way?  If Joran was innocent, he would come unglued at the person who made that picture, but he actually PAID someone to make it??  And paid good money too!!  He gets some sort of joy at looking at that picture when it should be tearing his heart out instead.  This kid is pure evil.

[blah]

do we have any psychologists that have an opinion as to why Joran would have that picture made like that?  Has there ever been any other criminals that have done something like this?  Surley there has never been anyone falsely accused who has done something like this, has there?

I want some professional opinions bout this (interested in non-professionsl too though!)

[San]

do we have any psychologists that have an opinion as to why Joran would have that picture made like that?  Has there ever been any other criminals that have done something like this?  Surley there has never been anyone falsely accused who has done something like this, has there?

I want some professional opinions bout this (interested in non-professionsl too though!)

I'm not a psychologist but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night

[blah]

do we have any psychologists that have an opinion as to why Joran would have that picture made like that?  Has there ever been any other criminals that have done something like this?  Surley there has never been anyone falsely accused who has done something like this, has there?

I want some professional opinions bout this (interested in non-professionsl too though!)

I'm not a psychologist but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night

do you have any idea why he would have paid someone to make that picture?

[San]

do we have any psychologists that have an opinion as to why Joran would have that picture made like that?  Has there ever been any other criminals that have done something like this?  Surley there has never been anyone falsely accused who has done something like this, has there?

I want some professional opinions bout this (interested in non-professionsl too though!)

I'm not a psychologist but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night

do you have any idea why he would have paid someone to make that picture?

I liked Robots reasoning last night.  He wanted to show it to people in the Netherlands saying that he and Natalee had a previous relationship and that he would have never harmed her.

[AnnieMW1]

I wonder why DeVries is saying at this juncture that he thinks the case can be solved.

[San]

I wonder why DeVries is saying at this juncture that he thinks the case can be solved.

I wonder who he talked to.  I wonder what he has in his possession.

[blah]

I wonder why DeVries is saying at this juncture that he thinks the case can be solved.

I think its like Beth said - start going after the people who helped with the cover-up but didnt actually participate in the crime against Natalee.  Put pressure on these folks and they will sing like birds.  People like Ben vocKING, Judge De Wit, JOHN CARLO, Karen Jansen.  Go after those that are involved in the cover-up and see if they are really willing to take the fall for these punks.

[Sue]

Just posted by Michael (Netherlands) on the front page of SM:

Peter de Vries is on the late night show Jensen in The Netherlands now airing and Beth is live on the phone in the show also. Peter thinks that the case can be resolved.

Is that same show Beth was on before over there??

[klaasend]

Found the perfect xmas gift for Renfro:
   

[Anna]

The crime scene was NOT the VDS home.  That is highly inconsistent with the evidence (text messages, polis car tape) and logic (2K have no motive to lie about dropoff point, ect).  IMO.

Shizaru, even our FBI on Fox admitted these text messages and so forth were red herrings they used to keep the dog off the trail and FBI believed they were all sitting within 2 feet of one another while messaging back and forth.

Shiz,
The disclaimer on the computer report that we saw makes that whole thing laughable.  It says something like and I paprphrase:  A bunch of stuff was deleted so we don't have any of that.

And now it seems Joran did have a lap top all along after all, the one he had professionally scrubbed for some odd reason.

If in the Sloot residence, they could have used the landline instead of the cells and not have records of calls even.  We have only Deepak's word for what Joran said anyway.  That hardly constitutes proof of anything.

No, there is no evidence they were at the beach, unless they were invisible.

.

[klaasend]

Just posted by Michael (Netherlands) on the front page of SM:

Peter de Vries is on the late night show Jensen in The Netherlands now airing and Beth is live on the phone in the show also. Peter thinks that the case can be resolved.

Is that same show Beth was on before over there??

Yes

[bleachedblack]

The crime scene was NOT the VDS home.  That is highly inconsistent with the evidence (text messages, polis car tape) and logic (2K have no motive to lie about dropoff point, ect).  IMO.

Shizaru I am not sure how you can say this with such decisiveness.
When Jorans lies were flying fast and furious and he admitted stopping at his house but said she didn't get out of the car they exchanged emails or some nonesence.......this sounds likely a partial truth consistent with being fabricated to cover for the fact someone might have seen the K's car drop him (and Natalee) off there.

[AZLady]

The picture might be Joran's attempt to create a trophy.  I think Daddy and Mommy took all of Joran's trophies away from him, not trusting that someone else might get a hold of them.  As we've read, psychopathic killers keep trophies of their conquests and looking at these trophies is how they relive and re-experience the event.  It's a very strong psychological compulsion.  I believe Joran is obsessed with Natalee.  He may make up other explanations, but I think the root of the thing is to re-create for himself a trophy that helps him relive the experience.  This trophy picture is an unusual pose and expression for Natalee, and his picture in the photo is unsmiling and back to Natalee, rather superior to her.  Joran is a very sick individual and we are seeing one aspect of that sickness in this photo.

[blah]

The picture might be Joran's attempt to create a trophy.  I think Daddy and Mommy took all of Joran's trophies away from him, not trusting that someone else might get a hold of them.  As we've read, psychopathic killers keep trophies of their conquests and looking at these trophies is how they relive and re-experience the event.  It's a very strong psychological compulsion.  I believe Joran is obsessed with Natalee.  He may make up other explanations, but I think the root of the thing is to re-create for himself a trophy that helps him relive the experience.  This trophy picture is an unusual pose and expression for Natalee, and his picture in the photo is unsmiling and back to Natalee, rather superior to her.  Joran is a very sick individual and we are seeing one aspect of that sickness in this photo.

this is what i am thinking also