Lively Case Discussion #549 11/27 - 11/28/2006

[Sue]

One more thought....maybe Joran was going to claim to have spent this New Years with Natalee...never thinking we would see the photo.....that would be worth $200.  

Never thinking the State Dept woudl know if he was here or not because of visa what a idiot he is

[robots]

the only other thing i can think that JORAN the KILLER could be doing with the photo is TRYING to show by manipulating the date of the picture


in other words,, he could be saying the picture was taken a week after
she was reported missing


see, she was alive, we were at a party and she was there
blah blah blah !!!!!!!

"see i even have a picture of her at the party"

its stupid BUT so is he

and by the way

I HATE HIM

[Anna]

Or pretend it was Natalee at a party in The Netherlands or somewhere in Europe?  

His intelligence is off the chart, remember, the bottom of the chart that would be.

.

[robots]

Or pretend it was Natalee at a party in The Netherlands or somewhere in Europe?  

His intelligence is off the chart, remember, the bottom of the chart that would be.

.

hehehehe

yes, MORON is his middle name    

[Tylergal]

do we have any psychologists that have an opinion as to why Joran would have that picture made like that?  Has there ever been any other criminals that have done something like this?  Surley there has never been anyone falsely accused who has done something like this, has there?

I want some professional opinions bout this (interested in non-professionsl too though!)

Blah, I am not a professional but I googled for answers and found that it is not uncommon for criminals to pose with their deceased or to insert themselves into photographs with them.  It is their souvenir, like a "notch on the belt."

[Tylergal]

I wonder why DeVries is saying at this juncture that he thinks the case can be solved.

I think its like Beth said - start going after the people who helped with the cover-up but didnt actually participate in the crime against Natalee.  Put pressure on these folks and they will sing like birds.  People like Ben vocKING, Judge De Wit, JOHN CARLO, Karen Jansen.  Go after those that are involved in the cover-up and see if they are really willing to take the fall for these punks.

Not sure VocKing can sing without incriminating himself in some other activities.

[MisGivings]

One more thought....maybe Joran was going to claim to have spent this New Years with Natalee...never thinking we would see the photo.....that would be worth $200.  

I am still waiting for Klass to photoshop the photo so it has Natalee either picking at his ears or eyes with her right hand.

Seriously though, folks, don't you just feel like something is about to come to a head here?
When I saw the little bit of tape with Joran hiding behind the door while DeVries asked him questions, I found myself saying, "damn, he did it, that little shit has played the whole island for a fool."
Maybe it is time to bring in the Cowboys to trample that fragile house of cards.

[memphis]

{SNIP}

Joe: What I make of it Martha is another individual trying to cash in on this tragedy this guy is a materialist, he’s a capitalist; he is someone is making money off of a false story. I spoke to Antonio Carlo the former lawyer for Joran; he made no such statement to the prosecutor and let me tell you this I’ve looked through every single document in this case. Every police report every prosecutors note there is no such document in this case. Every police report every prosecutors note there is no such document that supports any such claim and when you couple that with the fact that this individual didn’t even have the wherewithal to document these very important conversations Martha at the time they were going on and didn’t report that to law enforcement I mean it shows you his true motive. He’s trying to make his splash he is trying to get himself all over the news which is what people have done repeatedly in this case.
.....

What does this mean? If he is talking about De Vries, De Vries wasn't there at the time it was going on. Me thinks Joe didn't pay attention during his brief.  

[Tylergal]

The picture might be Joran's attempt to create a trophy.  I think Daddy and Mommy took all of Joran's trophies away from him, not trusting that someone else might get a hold of them.  As we've read, psychopathic killers keep trophies of their conquests and looking at these trophies is how they relive and re-experience the event.  It's a very strong psychological compulsion.  I believe Joran is obsessed with Natalee.  He may make up other explanations, but I think the root of the thing is to re-create for himself a trophy that helps him relive the experience.  This trophy picture is an unusual pose and expression for Natalee, and his picture in the photo is unsmiling and back to Natalee, rather superior to her.  Joran is a very sick individual and we are seeing one aspect of that sickness in this photo.

I agree with you 100%

Evening Monkeys!

Truthseeker: Good post . . . IMO there was a party at the Sloot house and it was for Daddy and his cronies. Wonder if King, Schmid and Croes were there too?

The elders . . . . .the lamb became a goat. (Is that a scapegoat for the elders?)

[Tylergal]

Q: IS KARIN JANSSEN A CRIMINAL?

Exhibit A from De Vries.
"Mr. Carlo said yeah I have to clear my conscience I can tell you that my client Joran has played a major role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and I want you to know that."

Exhibit B from De Vries.
Janssen response to De Vries per MF. "Janssen just answered some of the questions she was asked in writing by e-mail. She defended the program Opsporings Verzocht were the focus were not on Joran or the Kalpoe brothers but gave a broader look so it might trigger other information that had nothing to do with the suspects. She said she was personally involved and oversaw the production of the program. In the program there was no emphasis put on the size of the shoe or the shoe itself and how he got home and this is what Karin wanted. And she defended her decision. She wanted that the investigation to be as broad as possible and not focused on Joran and his friends."

A: YES![/color]

So i think we can assume that it was HER idea to use someone who looked, talked, and acting NOTHING like Joran to portray him.

I guess this means that we have to question everything KJ did. What about all the people she had arrested? Were they all distractions?  

Of course, that big blond cowgirl went in pistols blazing to arrest Johns & Jones, and curled up like a sick kitten when confronted by Paulus & Witt.

[Tylergal]

I believe Beth and De Vries will be on another show tonight, not sure if it will be Fox.  I'll let you know when I find out.

Another one   Let me go oil my fingers

I love you, San, and you know you are one of our bestest monkeys.  Hugs to you again and again.

[Tylergal]

I wonder if Joe Tacopina was in Rome for Tom Cruise's wedding

Surprised Greta was not there.  Is that not one of her Scientology brothers?    

[shadow]

The picture might be Joran's attempt to create a trophy.  I think Daddy and Mommy took all of Joran's trophies away from him, not trusting that someone else might get a hold of them.  As we've read, psychopathic killers keep trophies of their conquests and looking at these trophies is how they relive and re-experience the event.  It's a very strong psychological compulsion.  I believe Joran is obsessed with Natalee.  He may make up other explanations, but I think the root of the thing is to re-create for himself a trophy that helps him relive the experience.  This trophy picture is an unusual pose and expression for Natalee, and his picture in the photo is unsmiling and back to Natalee, rather superior to her.  Joran is a very sick individual and we are seeing one aspect of that sickness in this photo.

I agree with you 100%

Evening Monkeys!

Truthseeker: Good post . . . IMO there was a party at the Sloot house and it was for Daddy and his cronies. Wonder if King, Schmid and Croes were there too?

The elders . . . . .the lamb became a goat. (Is that a scapegoat for the elders?)

Good interpretation Tylergirl . . .

[memphis]

Of course, that big blond cowgirl went in pistols blazing to arrest Johns & Jones, and curled up like a sick kitten when confronted by Paulus & Witt.

Right, but I was thinking of Guido, the skinny kid, etc.

[Buckeye]

Part 2 of transcript from mtrules FOB

Other statements
 
Some months later Joran told Nova (Dutch Television) that Satish picked him up on the beach.
Another story Joran told the police was that he called Deepak, who then came with two dogs and raped and murdered Natalee. According to Joran he buried her at the Fisherman’s Huts. Deepak told the police the opposite, he said Joran didn’t kill Natalee but only raped her. When the police asked him for more information he simply replied with: ‘you’ll have to ask Joran, he’s a sick person’.
 
Joran’s shoes
 
When De Vries first heard about the story of the lost shoes of Joran he could imagine Joran didn’t find his shoes back. However, now that De Vries walked on the beach where Joran supposedly lost his shoes he thought it was really unlikely because the beach was so narrow and so close to the Fisherman’s Huts (were Joran was picked up later that night without his shoes). De Vries expressed Joran could pick up his shoes very easily within a minute.
 
But then where are Joran’s shoes now?
 
The Aruban police doesn’t believe Joran lost his shoes on the beach. Instead, they think Joran lost his shoes on purpose, not because there are traces of blood on them (which is suggested in the media) but because there would be an imprint of his shoes on Natalee. Without his shoes there wouldn’t be any evidence of the fact that the footprint on Natalee is his. When questioned Joran told the police he had shoe-size 14. However, when the police measured his feet he turned out to have size 10.
 
Other scenario
 
The Aruban police think Joran and Natalee didn’t go to the beach at all. Instead they think they went to Joran’s house. One reason why they focus on this scenario is because in one statement Joran told police that they were at his house at 1.40 am. However, they didn’t got out of the car but continued driving almost immediately. There is one more reason why the police think this scenario is more likely: a group of fisherman’s were fishing all night long near the fisherman’s huts but hadn’t seen anyone there.
 
Violent
 
Peter R. de Vries expresses the fact that Joran had been treated by a psychologist for violent behaviour against his brother. A friend of Joran also said Joran threw a wanderer in the water during carnival.
 
Incident
 
Joran told police Natalee asked him if he wanted to use some cocaine. Also came to light that Natalee used a lot of alcohol during her stay on Aruba. The night before her disappearance Natalee started drinking at 10 am and had to be carried back to her room by her roommates/friends that night. De Vries thinks it’s possible that the death of Natalee could’ve been an incident.  According to him Natalee could’ve succumbed under the influence of drugs and/or too much alcohol.
 
The Van der Sloot home
 
In this part of the program de Vries went to the house where Joran’s parents still live. Because no one is home he will try again later.
 
[Commercial break]
 
The Kalpoe home
 
In this part of the program de Vries went to the house where Deepak and Satish live. Deepak came to the door and told de Vries he doesn’t want to talk to him and that he has to go to his lawyer.
 
Deepak’s lawyer
 
Deepak’s lawyer tells de Vries that Joran first accuses Deepak of the disappearance of Natalee and then (when it’s proven that this isn’t the case) he accuses Deepak’s brother Satish. He did the same thing with the story about who picked him up on the beach at the night of Natalee’s disappearance. He also thinks Joran didn’t leave his shoes on the beach but lost them on purpose. He strengthens his arguments by adding that Joran was a very good actor in court where he cried several times followed by some very convincing moments.
 
Paul van der Sloot’s role
 
Peter says Joran could be innocent, otherwise he would’ve succumbed under pressure of the interrogations. However, the Aruban police think differently. They think Joran is a liar and got a lot of help from his dad: Paul van der Sloot. According to the program Joran’s dad could get a lot of investigation results because he worked at the tribunal at the time. He then passed on the information to Joran. This couldn’t be stopped because Joran was still underage and could be visited every day.

[Anna]

Of course, that big blond cowgirl went in pistols blazing to arrest Johns & Jones, and curled up like a sick kitten when confronted by Paulus & Witt.

Right, but I was thinking of Guido, the skinny kid, etc.

They arrest Guido and SandraK swears Natalee had sex on the beach with him on Friday night before she disappeared on Sunday.  Red herrings and an attempt to pretend Natalee was some how involved with all those young men while on her "week long" three days in Aruba.

Connecting her to ANY other male is good as it dilutes the fact that it was Joran and only Joran all along.

.

[shadow]

memphis
I had a chance to look at the postings by Daniel at FOB. The only thing I can gather iis that he knows why the photoshop photo was created and exists, but whether or not he knows based on facts, I have no idea. What was your take, did you get more from what he was saying?  Did I miss something?

[bleachedblack]

I think the photo was possibly to commemorate his involvement (for lack of a better word) with Natalee.  These guys, these PIMPS are used to posting pics and displaying EVERYTHING, from DK and Joran riding in a car
with 2 porn video's playing while someone(it appears ) took the pic from the backseat, to pics of Sanders and Joran dancing with a semiconscous girl between them,  to photos showing "axeman" the guy crouched in the field wearing gloves and holding an axe(remember that one?).  These guys are used to "commemorating"  every event......and if that event didn't exist , Joran created it. I am sure if there were a pic of Natalee in undress, and in some pic that could have been manipulated into a more "X" rated version of the 2 , then we might have seen a pic pf that instead. JMO

[sharon]

igsigs

Thanks! Interesting comment.

[igsigs]

Joran is the cocaine source?  Pffft...