Home
Blog
Radio
Missing Persons
Crime
March 18, 2024, 11:55:02 PM
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
News
:
NEW CHILD BOARD CREATED IN THE POLITICAL SECTION FOR THE 2016 ELECTION
Home
Help
Login
Register
Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum
>
Natalee Holloway
>
LCD Archive
> Topic:
Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 - 10/12/09
Pages:
«
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
»
Go Down
« previous
next »
Print
Author
Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 - 10/12/09 (Read 407481 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Kermit
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8317
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1720 on:
October 08, 2009, 05:49:03 PM »
Quote from: WhiskeyGirl on October 07, 2009, 07:43:50 PM
Quote from: Kermit on October 07, 2009, 04:24:28 PM
Kyle said: "I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (
or anything but the ocean
) contains Natalee's remains."
Kyle said: " The trap is almost straight out from Arashi in 90ft of water."
roboposter response
How massive is that trap? How heavy? How many would be required to lift it onto a boat, secure, and transport it into the ocean?
It is some kind of trap/cage looking thing, I am not convinced it held any human remains.
I think it more likely, the remains are in one of the other targets Persistence did not get the opportunity to follow up on. Or, the ocean may be a ruse and Natalee was sold.
If people think she is found, there is no reason to keep searching - that is the mistake. No evidence she has been found.
(roboposter out)
jmho
Hi WhiskeyGirl,
Perhpas this will help explain in Kyle's own words from an email:
- The trap found offshore the fish huts in 90ft of water had it's rigging intact. The rigging appeared to be what was used in it's normal fishing environment in deep waters. The rigging hooked to the trap in 4 places coming to a termination which joined the 4 strands together with a ring which was laying away from the trap. The rigging consisted of literally hundreds of feet of rope. I couldn't see any markers on the rigging. It's difficult to estimate the amount of rope because it was laying piled up and spread out over the sea floor in a WNW direction, which is the prevailing drift direction.
The trap was about 7-8ft long and wide and 2-2.5ft high. If I had to guess the trap's weight, I would say likely between 250-300 lbs.
Logged
Keepthefaith
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8156
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1721 on:
October 08, 2009, 05:51:00 PM »
Quote from: antunym on October 08, 2009, 05:48:33 PM
There is something that I have always wondered.... I know we have some
pictures
of the dive going on and what was 90 ft below on the ocean floor but in many of Kyles own words he talks about a
video
of all this going on. We have seen the pictures that are posted but who has the actual video of the dives taking place the sampling and the rest of what went on down there? Has anyone seen this video he describes or has everyone only seen the pictures only? I apologize if this was addressed already because although I read here everyday I might miss things sometimes lol.
I would think it'd be the property of whomever footed the bill for the search.Maybe someone else can clarify?
Logged
"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."
MOHANDAS GANDHI
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 37229
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1722 on:
October 08, 2009, 05:52:13 PM »
Quote from: antunym on October 08, 2009, 05:48:33 PM
There is something that I have always wondered.... I know we have some
pictures
of the dive going on and what was 90 ft below on the ocean floor but in many of Kyles own words he talks about a
video
of all this going on. We have seen the pictures that are posted but who has the actual video of the dives taking place the sampling and the rest of what went on down there? Has anyone seen this video he describes or has everyone only seen the pictures only? I apologize if this was addressed already because although I read here everyday I might miss things sometimes lol.
Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words
Kyle Kingman:
On the contrary, neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge. Oh, no one has possession of any footage except Tim Trahan, an archived copy on the Persistence, and myself.
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Kermit
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8317
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1723 on:
October 08, 2009, 05:54:03 PM »
Quote from: San on October 07, 2009, 09:59:23 PM
Quote from: Keepthefaith on October 07, 2009, 09:55:06 PM
Quote from: wreck on October 07, 2009, 09:42:42 PM
Quote from: San on October 07, 2009, 09:36:58 PM
Jossy said the people handling the radar for the water said the police told them to turn it off.
The police aren't going to tell them to shut the radar off for an idiot and his friends to dispose of a body. The police wanted that radar shut off because they were involved. They wanted to make sure it was done right. Who would have a boat and man power to dump a cage like that in the water?
The police.
I have said from day one that I don't think Natalee was disposed of in the ocean that
first
night. I think she was deposited by a
LARGER boat.
POLICE BOAT???
Police Boat or the Tattoo. Either way the police were involved.
Now this is interesting. You know that address 7 Catrini.
a.) if memory serves me, it is listed as the address of Marcus Wiggins for Tattoo
b) lalas mom asked me why I had posted that address because it was near where caps lived.
Patrick: And how late was this?
Joran : 02:00…02:30…02:00
<snip>
Joran:
his boat is right there…near the pier. I knew that too
<snip>
Joran: And euh….and then
we
just brought her to that boat.
Patrick: lifted?
Joran: Yeah, quickly;
the two of us
. And he…
Logged
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 37229
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1724 on:
October 08, 2009, 05:54:33 PM »
Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words
Kyle Kingman:
Louis DOES have legal rights to the footage regardless of Underwater Expeditions status. Louis personally signed the checks for the search.
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 37229
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1725 on:
October 08, 2009, 05:56:48 PM »
Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words
Kyle Kingman:
I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana. I had some stuff on my hard drive, but not those logs with the names. The logs and other information are in an unknown secure location. Only two people know that location and I am not one of them. I know better not even to ask about it, especially now.
Kermit @ scaredmonkeys.net
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Kermit
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8317
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1726 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:00:22 PM »
Quote from: antunym on October 08, 2009, 05:29:42 PM
Quote from: Kermit on October 08, 2009, 05:13:22 PM
Quote from: antunym on October 08, 2009, 05:04:14 PM
Hello Janet and KTF good to see you both still here. I noticed not much new going on lately but your still here. I like that type of consistency especially for Natalee! Well just thought I would say hello and I pray everyday Natalee comes home where she belongs.
Hi auntunym.
Welcome.
Hello Kermit I look foreward to seeing everything you say here. You are an amazing person for what you do and through Natalee I love you for it!
ribbit Miss auntunym.
Logged
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 37229
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1727 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:02:08 PM »
Quote from: Kermit on October 08, 2009, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: WhiskeyGirl on October 07, 2009, 07:43:50 PM
Quote from: Kermit on October 07, 2009, 04:24:28 PM
Kyle said: "I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (
or anything but the ocean
) contains Natalee's remains."
Kyle said: " The trap is almost straight out from Arashi in 90ft of water."
roboposter response
How massive is that trap? How heavy? How many would be required to lift it onto a boat, secure, and transport it into the ocean?
It is some kind of trap/cage looking thing, I am not convinced it held any human remains.
I think it more likely, the remains are in one of the other targets Persistence did not get the opportunity to follow up on. Or, the ocean may be a ruse and Natalee was sold.
If people think she is found, there is no reason to keep searching - that is the mistake. No evidence she has been found.
(roboposter out)
jmho
Hi WhiskeyGirl,
Perhpas this will help explain in Kyle's own words from an email:
- The trap found offshore the fish huts in 90ft of water had it's rigging intact. The rigging appeared to be what was used in it's normal fishing environment in deep waters. The rigging hooked to the trap in 4 places coming to a termination which joined the 4 strands together with a ring which was laying away from the trap. The rigging consisted of literally hundreds of feet of rope. I couldn't see any markers on the rigging. It's difficult to estimate the amount of rope because it was laying piled up and spread out over the sea floor in a WNW direction, which is the prevailing drift direction.
The trap was about 7-8ft long and wide and 2-2.5ft high. If I had to guess the trap's weight, I would say likely between 250-300 lbs.
oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #92 on: March 03, 2008, 06:35:58 PM »
The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high. You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360072#msg360072
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
antunym
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 135
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1728 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:04:21 PM »
It would be real interesting to see this video in its entirety. I bet there is a lot on the video that we have not seen for example what was under that sand that made the body formation as it was being sampled. I believe what is done in the dark always comes to light so maybe we will one day get to see whats on the whole videotape. It obviously exists somewhere.
Logged
Keepthefaith
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8156
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1729 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:11:33 PM »
Keepthefaith, Kermit, Tamikosmom, antunym, jen3560 and 3 Guests
Where are the rest of our Monkey's......
Logged
"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."
MOHANDAS GANDHI
hotping
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3747
All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1730 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:14:18 PM »
Hello Everyone!
Logged
In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 37229
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1731 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:16:16 PM »
Quote from: antunym on October 08, 2009, 06:04:21 PM
It would be real interesting to see this video in its entirety. I bet there is a lot on the video that we have not seen for example what was under that sand that made the body formation as it was being sampled. I believe what is done in the dark always comes to light so maybe we will one day get to see whats on the whole videotape. It obviously exists somewhere.
If the entire ROV footage has not been destroyed ... if reasonable suspicion could be shown that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been in that cage/trap and ... if reasonable suspicion could be shown that John Silvetti's objectives were self motivated ... maybe Beth Holloway would have some legal recourse.
Janet
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Keepthefaith
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8156
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1732 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:16:46 PM »
Quote from: hotping on October 08, 2009, 06:14:18 PM
Hello Everyone!
Watch out Hotping,there's a scary ghost coming down the stares...
Logged
"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."
MOHANDAS GANDHI
Kermit
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8317
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1733 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:18:26 PM »
THEY HAD THE USE OF A 2-BEDROOM TIMESHARE THAT WAS DONATED TO THEM
DOVER — Chief executive officer of Sell My Timeshare Now, Jason Tremblay, is the first to say that no one should ever have to use timeshare resort property for a reason as sad as this one.
Tremblay's company is providing a two-bedroom timeshare to the members of the Texas-based search team, EquuSearch, who are in Aruba this week, continuing the search for Natalee Holloway, the American teenager who disappeared while on a school trip in 2005
http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071219/BIZ/712190347/-1/rss02
ODD THAT KYLE SUDDENLY STARTS MAKING POSTS ABOUT THE AUTHORITIES IN ARUBA
Dec 18, 2007 - KYLE posted at BFN:
We must use all available press agencies to shed light onto the authorities involved.
Pray for the Island, the family, and for a thorough internal investigation
DECEMBER 19 HODGES, LEWIS SCHAEFER, AND TIM MILLER BOARDED THE PERSISTENCE AND REMAINED THERE THE NEXT 24 HOURS
On the next morning (December 19),
I boarded The Persistence along with Louis Schaffer and Tim Miller and remained aboard for the next 24 hours as they continued to scan the ocean floor.
The staff was impressive—capable, bright, and extremely motivated. They worked virtually through the entire night. Clearly this was going to be one quality search effort
http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html
DECEMBER 20 LOUIS SCHAFFER AND HODGES DISEMBARK, BUT TIM GOES BACK OUT WITH THE BOAT
The next day (Dec 20),
Louis and I disembarked while Tim went back out on the boat.
It was clear that the first part of the search (before the ROV team could be called upon) was going to take significantly longer, and
we both had business in the U.S. So I took him to the airport the next afternoon, and he planned on returning after Christmas as did I
http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html
DECEMBER 20, HODGES CALLS TIM MILLER ON THE PERSISTENCE AND TIM PUTS HIM ON THE PHONE WITH JOHN SILVETTI
At this point
I called Tim Miller now at sea on The Persistence to pass along the new information about the cage. He put me on the phone with John Silvetti who was pleased with my findings. From the boat they emailed a new copy of the model cage to the person constructing an actual model of the cage, and picked it up the following morning upon returning to shore. By December 21, the search team had an accurate model cage and was able to drop it into the water and obtain a sonar signature of the cage.
http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html
DECEMBER 24 KYLE FINDS WHAT HE THINKS IS THE CAGE
On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be
DECEMBER 29 THEY SEND A ROV DOWN, TIM MILLER SAID IT LOOKED
LIKE A SKULL
And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look. Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull
TIM CALLED AND TOLD DAVE ON DECEMBER 29 THAT THEY HAD FOUND NATALEE
I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive
JOHN WAITED AND WORKED WITH THE ARUBAN POLICE TO ARRANGE THE DECEMBER 30 DIVE, WHICH WAS A VISUAL DIVE ONLY
J
ohn stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive
-Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive
BUT KYLE TELLS US JOHN DEFINITELY BELIEVED THE ARUBANS ON DECEMBER 30 WHEN THEY SAID THAT NOTHING WAS CASE RELEVANT,
He
(John)changed his focus on Dec 30th after the "Dateline dive"
. It crushed him, but filled him with resolve that he would keep searching and not lose focus on just that. However, it took him off the trap completely IMO. He seemed almost disinterested in the Jan 7th dive (June 17)
----------
J
ohn definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains...hmm (June 17
AFTER THE DECEMBER 30 DIVE, JOHN DIDN'T WANT TIM MILLER ON BOARD BECAUSE HE SAID TIM WASN'T NECESSARY ANYMORE, AND WAS A LIABILITY
Kyle feels Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statement to the press and the Holloways that they found Natalee
You're correct. This occurred on Dec 30th when the Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present). After the Dec 30th dive John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true, it was premature and should have been replaced with action- seeing that the evidence was collected and handled properly.
ON THE NIGHT OF DECEMBER 30 KYLE TALKED TO TIM AND HE FELT THE ORIGINAL DIVE SITE MIGHT HAVE BEEN COMPROMISED PRIOR TO THAT DAY
On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it. I hadn't slept in 48 hours
WHEN KYLE WOKE UP AFTER TAKING A COUPLE OF HOURS SLEEP ON DECEMBER 30 TIM AND NBC DATELINE WAS GONE WHICH LEFT JOHN AS THE ONLY PROJECT LEAD THERE
from this point on John had them searching in the deepest portions of the search area, which coincided with Richardson's remarks
I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.
JANUARY 31 KYLE TELLS US THAT JOHN AND HE ARE THE ONLY ONES LEFT FROM THE ORIGINAL CREW THAT FLEW IN DECEMBER 15, AND THAT HE WILL BE THERE UNTIL IT'S FINISHED
JAN. 31 -John and I are the only ones left from the original crew who flew in on 15-Dec. I'll be here until it's finished.
ON FEBRUARY 25 KYLE MAKES A POST SAYING THEY MUST LOOK BEYOND ALL THE GARBAGE, AND BY GARBAGE HE MEANS THE TEMPTATION TO TAKE FULL CONTROL OVER THE SITUATION, DISTRACTIONS FROM BOTH WELL INTENDED PEOPLE AND OPPORTUNISTS, AND DISCOURAGEMENT
February 25 Natalie's remains will be found
SNIP
During the process we are presented with two major challenges: 1) to look beyond all the garbage to see God's hand working in the situation as it unfolds, step by step. By garbage, I mean the temptation to take full control over the situation, distractions from both well-intended people and opportunists, and discouragement
SOMEWHERE AROUND FEBRUARY 22 DATELINE SHOWS THE CAGE
FEBRUARY 26 kLASSEND PUTS THE PICTURES OF THE TRAP ON FROM BNH site.
FEBRUARY 27 THE SONAR SEARCH OF THE POND-
which completely legitimized all of Caps stuff he's been looking for
February 27 Caps uses a shango post to give the directions to the pond
March 18
John goes to Mos and convinces him the Pond needs to be searched
and from that point on the pond is the major thing everybody is looking at, no longer thinking about the cage
Logged
Kermit
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8317
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1734 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:19:12 PM »
Quote from: hotping on October 08, 2009, 06:14:18 PM
Hello Everyone!
ribbit Hotping.
Logged
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 37229
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1735 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:19:38 PM »
I am off for now.
Later Monkeys
Janet
3:20 PM PT
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Keepthefaith
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8156
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1736 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:22:19 PM »
Quote from: Tamikosmom on October 08, 2009, 06:19:38 PM
I am off for now.
Later Monkeys
Janet
3:20 PM PT
Make sure you stay on the sidewalk with that trike Janet!
Logged
"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."
MOHANDAS GANDHI
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 37229
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1737 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:22:44 PM »
Quote from: Kermit on October 08, 2009, 06:18:26 PM
THEY HAD THE USE OF A 2-BEDROOM TIMESHARE THAT WAS DONATED TO THEM
DOVER — Chief executive officer of Sell My Timeshare Now, Jason Tremblay, is the first to say that no one should ever have to use timeshare resort property for a reason as sad as this one.
Tremblay's company is providing a two-bedroom timeshare to the members of the Texas-based search team, EquuSearch, who are in Aruba this week, continuing the search for Natalee Holloway, the American teenager who disappeared while on a school trip in 2005
http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071219/BIZ/712190347/-1/rss02
ODD THAT KYLE SUDDENLY STARTS MAKING POSTS ABOUT THE AUTHORITIES IN ARUBA
Dec 18, 2007 - KYLE posted at BFN:
We must use all available press agencies to shed light onto the authorities involved.
Pray for the Island, the family, and for a thorough internal investigation
DECEMBER 19 HODGES, LEWIS SCHAEFER, AND TIM MILLER BOARDED THE PERSISTENCE AND REMAINED THERE THE NEXT 24 HOURS
On the next morning (December 19),
I boarded The Persistence along with Louis Schaffer and Tim Miller and remained aboard for the next 24 hours as they continued to scan the ocean floor.
The staff was impressive—capable, bright, and extremely motivated. They worked virtually through the entire night. Clearly this was going to be one quality search effort
http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html
DECEMBER 20 LOUIS SCHAFFER AND HODGES DISEMBARK, BUT TIM GOES BACK OUT WITH THE BOAT
The next day (Dec 20),
Louis and I disembarked while Tim went back out on the boat.
It was clear that the first part of the search (before the ROV team could be called upon) was going to take significantly longer, and
we both had business in the U.S. So I took him to the airport the next afternoon, and he planned on returning after Christmas as did I
http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html
DECEMBER 20, HODGES CALLS TIM MILLER ON THE PERSISTENCE AND TIM PUTS HIM ON THE PHONE WITH JOHN SILVETTI
At this point
I called Tim Miller now at sea on The Persistence to pass along the new information about the cage. He put me on the phone with John Silvetti who was pleased with my findings. From the boat they emailed a new copy of the model cage to the person constructing an actual model of the cage, and picked it up the following morning upon returning to shore. By December 21, the search team had an accurate model cage and was able to drop it into the water and obtain a sonar signature of the cage.
http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html
DECEMBER 24 KYLE FINDS WHAT HE THINKS IS THE CAGE
On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be
DECEMBER 29 THEY SEND A ROV DOWN, TIM MILLER SAID IT LOOKED
LIKE A SKULL
And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look. Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull
TIM CALLED AND TOLD DAVE ON DECEMBER 29 THAT THEY HAD FOUND NATALEE
I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive
JOHN WAITED AND WORKED WITH THE ARUBAN POLICE TO ARRANGE THE DECEMBER 30 DIVE, WHICH WAS A VISUAL DIVE ONLY
J
ohn stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive
-Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive
BUT KYLE TELLS US JOHN DEFINITELY BELIEVED THE ARUBANS ON DECEMBER 30 WHEN THEY SAID THAT NOTHING WAS CASE RELEVANT,
He
(John)changed his focus on Dec 30th after the "Dateline dive"
. It crushed him, but filled him with resolve that he would keep searching and not lose focus on just that. However, it took him off the trap completely IMO. He seemed almost disinterested in the Jan 7th dive (June 17)
----------
J
ohn definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains...hmm (June 17
AFTER THE DECEMBER 30 DIVE, JOHN DIDN'T WANT TIM MILLER ON BOARD BECAUSE HE SAID TIM WASN'T NECESSARY ANYMORE, AND WAS A LIABILITY
Kyle feels Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statement to the press and the Holloways that they found Natalee
You're correct. This occurred on Dec 30th when the Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present). After the Dec 30th dive John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true, it was premature and should have been replaced with action- seeing that the evidence was collected and handled properly.
ON THE NIGHT OF DECEMBER 30 KYLE TALKED TO TIM AND HE FELT THE ORIGINAL DIVE SITE MIGHT HAVE BEEN COMPROMISED PRIOR TO THAT DAY
On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it. I hadn't slept in 48 hours
WHEN KYLE WOKE UP AFTER TAKING A COUPLE OF HOURS SLEEP ON DECEMBER 30 TIM AND NBC DATELINE WAS GONE WHICH LEFT JOHN AS THE ONLY PROJECT LEAD THERE
from this point on John had them searching in the deepest portions of the search area, which coincided with Richardson's remarks
I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.
JANUARY 31 KYLE TELLS US THAT JOHN AND HE ARE THE ONLY ONES LEFT FROM THE ORIGINAL CREW THAT FLEW IN DECEMBER 15, AND THAT HE WILL BE THERE UNTIL IT'S FINISHED
JAN. 31 -John and I are the only ones left from the original crew who flew in on 15-Dec. I'll be here until it's finished.
ON FEBRUARY 25 KYLE MAKES A POST SAYING THEY MUST LOOK BEYOND ALL THE GARBAGE, AND BY GARBAGE HE MEANS THE TEMPTATION TO TAKE FULL CONTROL OVER THE SITUATION, DISTRACTIONS FROM BOTH WELL INTENDED PEOPLE AND OPPORTUNISTS, AND DISCOURAGEMENT
February 25 Natalie's remains will be found
SNIP
During the process we are presented with two major challenges: 1) to look beyond all the garbage to see God's hand working in the situation as it unfolds, step by step. By garbage, I mean the temptation to take full control over the situation, distractions from both well-intended people and opportunists, and discouragement
SOMEWHERE AROUND FEBRUARY 22 DATELINE SHOWS THE CAGE
FEBRUARY 26 kLASSEND PUTS THE PICTURES OF THE TRAP ON FROM BNH site.
FEBRUARY 27 THE SONAR SEARCH OF THE POND-
which completely legitimized all of Caps stuff he's been looking for
February 27 Caps uses a shango post to give the directions to the pond
March 18
John goes to Mos and convinces him the Pond needs to be searched
and from that point on the pond is the major thing everybody is looking at, no longer thinking about the cage
WOW!
Kermit ... Ribbit.
I will read later.
Janet
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 37229
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1738 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:25:17 PM »
Quote from: Keepthefaith on October 08, 2009, 06:22:19 PM
Quote from: Tamikosmom on October 08, 2009, 06:19:38 PM
I am off for now.
Later Monkeys
Janet
3:20 PM PT
Make sure you stay on the sidewalk with that trike Janet!
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Keepthefaith
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8156
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 -
«
Reply #1739 on:
October 08, 2009, 06:44:16 PM »
Quote from: Tamikosmom on October 08, 2009, 06:25:17 PM
Quote from: Keepthefaith on October 08, 2009, 06:22:19 PM
Quote from: Tamikosmom on October 08, 2009, 06:19:38 PM
I am off for now.
Later Monkeys
Janet
3:20 PM PT
Make sure you stay on the sidewalk with that trike Janet!
Logged
"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."
MOHANDAS GANDHI
Pages:
«
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
»
Go Up
Print
Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum
>
Natalee Holloway
>
LCD Archive
> Topic:
Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 - 10/12/09
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
FORUM RULES
-----------------------------
=> Forum Rules and Tips
-----------------------------
Polls, Polls and more Polls
-----------------------------
=> Missing Persons Polls
=> Current Events/News Polls
=> Crime and Trial Polls
=> Just For Fun Polls
-----------------------------
Missing Persons - High Profile
-----------------------------
=> Missing Persons High Profile
===> Dylan Redwine, 13yrs old, last seen 11/19/12, Vallecito, CO
===> Kyron Horman - Portland Oregon
===> Caylee Marie Anthony - Florida (BODY FOUND)
=====> Caylee's Law - by State
=======> Caylee's Law - text
=======> ALABAMA
=======> ALASKA
=======> ARIZONA
=======> ARKANSAS
=======> CALIFORNIA
=======> COLORADO
=======> CONNECTICUT
=======> DELAWARE
=======> DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
=======> FLORIDA
=======> GEORGIA
=======> HAWAII
=======> IDAHO
=======> ILLINOIS
=======> INDIANA
=======> IOWA
=======> KANSAS
=======> KENTUCKY
=======> LOUISIANA
=======> MAINE
=======> MARYLAND
=======> MASSACHUSETTS
=======> MICHIGAN
=======> MINNESOTA
=======> MISSISSIPPI
=======> MISSOURI
=======> MONTANA
=======> NEBRASKA
=======> NEVADA
=======> NEW HAMPSHIRE
=======> NEW JERSEY
=======> NEW MEXICO
=======> NEW YORK
=======> NORTH CAROLINA
=======> NORTH DAKOTA
=======> OHIO
=======> OKLAHOMA
=======> OREGON
=======> PENNSYLVANIA
=======> PUERTO RICO
=======> RHODE ISLAND
=======> SOUTH CAROLINA
=======> SOUTH DAKOTA
=======> TENNESSEE
=======> TEXAS
=======> UTAH
=======> VERMONT
=======> VIRGINIA
=======> WASHINGTON
=======> WEST VIRGINIA
=======> WISCONSIN
=======> WYOMING
=====> Caylee Marie Anthony Murder Trial Archives
===> Sierra Lamar, 15yrs old, Morgan Hill, CA Missing Since March 16, 2012
===> JO ANN (JODIE) BAIN AND 3 DAUGHTERS MISSING 4/27/2012(2 murdered 2 safe)
===> Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6 yrs old missing 4/21/12 Tucson, AZ (Body Found)
===> Jennifer Kesse - Orlando/Ocoee, Florida
===> Susan Powell 28yrs old, missing 12/6/09 West Valley City, Utah
===> Michelle Loree Parker, Last Seen 11/17/11, Orlando, FL
===> Celina Cass, 11yrs old missing 7/25/11 New Hampshire
===> Aliayah Lunsford, 3yrs old, Weston, West VA, missing since 9/24/2011
===> Lisa Irwin, 10mo old missing since 10/4/2011 KC, MO
===> Robyn Gardner missing in Aruba August 2, 2011
=> Missing Persons - High Profile - Archives
-----------------------------
Virginia Area Missing and Murdered - possible connections
-----------------------------
=> Morgan Dana Harrington, 20yrs missing VA Tech 10/17/09(BODY FOUND)
=> Hannah Elizabeth Graham missing since 9/13/14 Charlottesville, VA
=> Alexis Murphy, missing since 8/3/13 Charlottesville, VA
=> Samantha Ann Clarke 19yrs. old Orange Va. Last seen 09/13/10
=> Dashad Sage Smith missing since 11/20/12 Charlottesville, VA
=> Cassandra Morton 23, Lynchburg, missing 10/10/09 body found 11/29/09
-----------------------------
High Profile Crimes and Trials (not missing persons)
-----------------------------
=> Jodi Arias trial - for the murder of Travis Alexander
=> Trial of George Zimmerman - 2nd Degree Murder of 17yr old Trayvon Martin
=> Scott Peterson Appeal of Murder Conviction
-----------------------------
Missing, Exploited and True Crime
-----------------------------
=> Missing Exploited and True Crime
===> Missing Persons Forum
=====> Missing Found or Presumed Deceased
=====> Missing Found Safe
=====> Missing Endangered Runaways
=====> Resourses, Search Groups and Fundraisers
===> Crimes Against Children, Elderly and the Disabled
===> Crimes of Passion/Anger
===> Serial Killers and Their Possible Victims
===> Unsolved Crimes
=====> Finally Solved
===> Haleigh Marie Cummings - Florida
===> Adji Desir - Florida
===> Somer Renee Thompson 7 yo, Orange Park FL 10/19/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Tracy Ocasio - Orlando/Ocoee, Florida
===> Shaniya Nicole Davis, 5 Fayetteville, NC Missing 11/10/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Holly Bobo, 20yrs old missing Parsons, TN 4/13/11
===> Hailey Dunn - 13yrs old - Colorado City, TX missing 12/27/10 (Body Found)
===> Elizabeth Olten - 9yrs, Jefferson City, MO missing 10/21/09 (BODY FOUND)
===> Lindsey Baum - McCleary, WA 6/26/09
===> Amber Leeanne Dubois 14yrs old - Escondido, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Chelsea King, 17, Missing 2-25-2010 Rancho Bernadino CA (BODY FOUND)
===> Sandra Cantu, 8 years old - Tracy, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Madeleine McCann - Portugal
===> Christine Marie Sheddy - missing since 11/13/2007 - Maryland(BODY FOUND)
===> Nevaeh Amyah Buchanan 5yr Monroe Michigan(BODY FOUND)
===> Gabriel Johnson 8 mo., last seen 12/26/09 Tempe AZ-San Antonio TX
===> Stacy Ann Peterson missing & Kathleen Savio murdered - Illinois
===> Zahra Clare Baker - 10yrs old Hickory, NC (Body Found)
-----------------------------
Natalee Holloway
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Important Case Documents
===> Joran Statements/PV's
===> Paulus Statements/PV's
===> Deepak Statements/PV's
===> Satish Statements/PV's
===> Misc Statements/PV's
=> LCD Archive
=> Shango/Simian and other Codetalkers
-----------------------------
Current Events and Musings
-----------------------------
=> Monkey Musings / Open Discussion
=> Pop Culture Main
===> Hugely Popular TV Shows
===> Movies and Television
===> Social Media
===> Music
===> Books
===> Scared Monkeys Radio with Dana Pretzer
=> Health and Medical Issues
=> Food and Product Recalls
=> News of the Day
=> Business News
=> Sports
=> Political Forum
=> Religion (discussion and debate)
-----------------------------
The Monkey Lounge
-----------------------------
=> The Monkey Lounge
===> Fashion & Decorating
===> What's Cooking? Recipes
===> Games
=> Inspirational
===> Memorial - Gone but Never Forgotten
===> Gratefulness - Light a Candle in Prayer
===> Inspirational scriptures, songs, stories and prayers
-----------------------------
Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Theory and Speculation
=> Links and References Only
=> Natalee Breaking News Archive
-----------------------------
General Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> News Issues
=> Chit Chat
Loading...