Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 - 10/12/09

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:   John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

[Tamikosmom]

 

Janet
8:10 PM PT

[msmarple]

Hi Monkeys,


I just dropped into change clothes, and say Hey. I still try to read here.

Many thanks to texasmom for keeping up with the mayhem. You're an  !

[Edward]

There is no Natalee here to say any sex was consenual .. So because this is a missing person/murder case, it was rape.

[billb's daughter]

I read every day...whether I'm at home in San Diego county, overseas on business (Singapore, Japan, Guam, Hawaii, London, Bahrain - or vacationing in Minn - Saint Paul or Dallas) and I have got to say....
I'm here because of all the dedicated Monkeys that have stayed the course to demand Justice for Natalee...
So I have got to ask each and every one here........That when some things are floated and even pushed that go beyond what some may feel exceed their personal  comforts zones....please, can we just address the issues and leave out the hard felt emotions...in order to critically evaluate those "things/issues'?
We are where we are at because Natalee has not received the Justice that she (or any American) deserves! We are here because Natalee's Family has not received the justice they deserve.
The critical questions/concerns raised because of the perceived actions by the aruba powers that be, perps(urine/paulass/k2/guido/freddie)/OM/ALE/american traitors on aruba/persistence american traitors are fair game for questioning.......
I want to add...questioning Robin/Dave/Tim Miller/Peter D. is ALSO fair game after 4 plus years if it leads to Justice for Natalee...wrt their actions..Folks...this is a blog dedicated to obtaining Justice for Natalee.....   

[billb's daughter]

Good Night good Monkeys.....

[billb's daughter]

There is no Natalee here to say any sex was consenual .. So because this is a missing person/murder case, it was rape.

Edward...right on...
Consensual means...both parties agree...if one party can't agree (missing) then the burden of proof rests with the other party.....

[billb's daughter]

I read every day...whether I'm at home in San Diego county, overseas on business (Singapore, Japan, Guam, Hawaii, London, Bahrain - or vacationing in Minn - Saint Paul or Dallas) and I have got to say....
I'm here because of all the dedicated Monkeys that have stayed the course to demand Justice for Natalee...
So I have got to ask each and every one here........That when some things are floated and even pushed that go beyond what some may feel exceed their personal  comforts zones....please, can we just address the issues and leave out the hard felt emotions...in order to critically evaluate those "things/issues'?
We are where we are at because Natalee has not received the Justice that she (or any American) deserves! We are here because Natalee's Family has not received the justice they deserve.
The critical questions/concerns raised because of the perceived actions by the aruba powers that be, perps(urine/paulass/k2/guido/freddie)/OM/ALE/american traitors on aruba/persistence american traitors are fair game for questioning.......
I want to add...questioning Robin/Dave/Tim Miller/Peter D. is ALSO fair game after 4 plus years if it leads to Justice for Natalee...wrt their actions..Folks...this is a blog dedicated to obtaining Justice for Natalee.....   

Sentimentally...I want to give Dave/Tim M./Peter d...a pass.....critically, I want Justice for Natalee.....
I'll go with my critical gut feeling until Justice for Natalee is gained....at the end of the day....I'm not undermining anyone by choosing the path to Justice, wherever it may lead....

[Magnolia]

This is from the Law Dictionary on Dismissal with Prejudice:

Dismissal with Prejudice

A dismissal with prejudice is a judgment rendered in a lawsuit on its merits that prevents the plaintiff from bringing the same lawsuit against the same defendant in the future. It is a harsh remedy that has the effect of canceling the action so that it can never again be commenced. A dismissal with prejudice is res judicata as to every issue litigated in the action.

The possibility of such a dismissal acts as a deterrent to the use of dilatory tactics by a plaintiff who wants to prejudice a defendant's case by unreasonably hindering the disposition of the action from the time of the filing of the action to the actual trial of the issues. It is also designed to minimize, if not eliminate, the congestion of court calendars caused by unnecessary delays in pending cases. Because it is regarded as a drastic remedy, courts grant dismissals with prejudice only in the most egregious cases in response to a motion brought by a defendant or by a court sua sponte, or on its own will.

[Tamikosmom]

By President George W. Bush, 9/12/2001

President Bush's comments last night in a nationally televised address:

Today, our fellow citizens, our way of life, our very freedom came under attack in a series of deliberate and deadly terrorist acts. The victims were in airplanes or in their offices. Secretaries, business men and women, military and federal workers. Moms and dads. Friends and neighbors.

Thousands of lives were suddenly ended by evil, despicable acts of terror.

The pictures of airplanes flying into buildings, fires burning, huge structures collapsing, have filled us with disbelief, terrible sadness, and a quiet, unyielding anger.

These acts of mass murder were intended to frighten our nation into chaos and retreat. But they have failed. Our country is strong. A great people has been moved to defend a great nation.

Terrorist attacks can shake the foundations of our biggest buildings, but they cannot touch the foundation of America. These acts shatter steel, but they cannot dent the steel of American resolve.

America was targeted for attack because we're the brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world. And no one will keep that light from shining.

Today, our nation saw evil, the very worst of human nature, and we responded with the best of America, with the daring of our rescue workers, with the caring for strangers and neighbors who came to give blood and help in any way they could.

Immediately following the first attack, I implemented our government's emergency response plans. Our military is powerful, and it's prepared. Our emergency teams are working in New York City and Washington, D.C., to help with local rescue efforts.

Our first priority is to get help to those who have been injured and to take every precaution to protect our citizens at home and around the world from further attacks.

The functions of our government continue without interruption. Federal agencies in Washington, which had to be evacuated today, are reopening for essential personnel tonight and will be open for business tomorrow.

Our financial institutions remain strong, and the American economy will be open for business as well.

The search is underway for those who are behind these evil acts. I've directed the full resources for our intelligence and law enforcement communities to find those responsible and bring them to justice. We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them.

I appreciate so very much the members of Congress who have joined me in strongly condemning these attacks. And on behalf of the American people, I thank the many world leaders who have called to offer their condolences and assistance.

America and our friends and allies join with all those who want peace and security in the world and we stand together to win the war against terrorism.

Tonight I ask for your prayers for all those who grieve, for the children whose worlds have been shattered, for all whose sense of safety and security has been threatened. And I pray they will be comforted by a power greater than any of us spoken through the ages in Psalm 23: ''Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil for you are with me.''

This is a day when all Americans from every walk of life unite in our resolve for justice and peace. America has stood down enemies before, and we will do so this time.

None of us will ever forget this day, yet we go forward to defend freedom and all that is good and just in our world.

Thank you. Good night and God bless America

[Tamikosmom]

The Attack on America September 11, 2001 … DO YOU REMEMBER, PLEASE DO NOT EVER FORGET
 
Eight years ago this morning, September 11, 2001 it was cool beautiful Fall morning when it happened. Then it happened again.  Please take time in your day to remember and reflect back on that day and the following days after September 11. Take time to remember and say a prayer ...

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2009/09/11/the-attack-on-america-september-11-2001-do-you-remember-please-do-not-ever-forget/

[Keepthefaith]

I read every day...whether I'm at home in San Diego county, overseas on business (Singapore, Japan, Guam, Hawaii, London, Bahrain - or vacationing in Minn - Saint Paul or Dallas) and I have got to say....
I'm here because of all the dedicated Monkeys that have stayed the course to demand Justice for Natalee...
So I have got to ask each and every one here........That when some things are floated and even pushed that go beyond what some may feel exceed their personal  comforts zones....please, can we just address the issues and leave out the hard felt emotions...in order to critically evaluate those "things/issues'?
We are where we are at because Natalee has not received the Justice that she (or any American) deserves! We are here because Natalee's Family has not received the justice they deserve.
The critical questions/concerns raised because of the perceived actions by the aruba powers that be, perps(urine/paulass/k2/guido/freddie)/OM/ALE/american traitors on aruba/persistence american traitors are fair game for questioning.......
I want to add...questioning Robin/Dave/Tim Miller/Peter D. is ALSO fair game after 4 plus years if it leads to Justice for Natalee...wrt their actions..Folks...this is a blog dedicated to obtaining Justice for Natalee.....   

Sentimentally...I want to give Dave/Tim M./Peter d...a pass.....critically, I want Justice for Natalee.....
I'll go with my critical gut feeling until Justice for Natalee is gained....at the end of the day....I'm not undermining anyone by choosing the path to Justice, wherever it may lead....

Some great posts Billb!For me,tough,thought provoking dialogue is where it's at.I may not agree with the opposing view at the time but,may change my view in time.That's what happens when two DIFFERENT views are discussed,dissected,discussed some more and potentially you may have a change of view.If not,that's OK!EACH and EVERY MONKEY brings something valuable to the table.We are givin a platform to voice our opinions for Justice thanx to Red,Klaas as well as the other Mods."IF" you choose to NOT voice your opinion,that is your choice and only your choice!Justice for Natalee Holloway is where it's at!

KTF

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:   John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Lifesong
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #807 3/12/09 -
« Reply #360 on: March 14, 2009, 06:52:02 PM »

No, Kyle.  No.  You were not FORCED to sit back and hope for the best.  YOU CHOSE to sit back and hope for the best.  There are a number of things YOU could have done.  YOU could have contacted the FBI.  YOU could have contacted Tim Miller.  YOU could have contacted the family.   

INSTEAD you chose, that's right Kyle, YOU CHOSE to participate in the attempted PIMPING of the only evidence not absconded with by the Arubans, the ROV videos.

You, KYLE KINGMAN, need to stop acting like you were one of the good guys.  YOU CHOSE at the time to do exactly what ALE did, and that is WITHHOLD POSSIBLE EVIDENCE.  And if you think talking to the Freebirds redeemed you, you're wrong.  Because when it came time to sh*t or get off the pot - you LIED, MADE THREATS OVER INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY and finally, RAN AWAY.  You CHOSE, Kyle Kingman, to do everything in your power to PROTECT THE PIMPING OF THE ROV VIDEOS.

Shame right on you.

JMO and only MO

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4675.msg720012;topicseen#msg720012

[Tamikosmom]

Why in the planning stages of the Persistent undertaking was a letter of invitation not obtained from Aruba affording permission for FBI respresentation to be on board.  Tim Miller and Dave Holloway were aware of the dynamics encompassing the corrupt investigation that had prevented justice from prevailing since the get go.  How did these two men reason that collaborating with the enemy without FBI representation in this huge endeavor was going to yield a positive outcome.  Monkeys questioned Kyle Kingman (oceanexploration) regarding this issue from the getgo.

Janet

++++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457;topicseen#msg332457

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.  We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage

[Tamikosmom]

There was a time prior to the Mark Purcell connection ... in the name of answers to what happened to his precious daughter ... Dave Holloway did not hold back in regards to his words and actions.  He did not just hope for the best outcome ... he pursued that  outcome with thought out actions and words.

Dave's book "Corruption in Paradise" which was released six months prior to the Mark Purcell connection ... reveals the strength and determination of Natalee's father.  His words within the covers of that book exposes without reservation the corrupt Aruban investigation that was preventing justice from prevailing.

Why was Dave Holloway not more forceful in the planning stages of the Persistence undertaking in regards to Aruban protocol which would have afforded FBI presence on board?  Logic dictates that in his heart he must have realized that without this presence ... the costly endeavor was for naught ... the Aruban coverup that was preventing him from bringing Natalee home would only be furthered. 

Janet

++++++++++++++++

Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 9/10: Jacobs also told us that the day before we arrived, he had interviewed the boys who eventually became the three main suspects in Natalee's disappearance, Joran van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe, and his brother Satish. Beth had informed him of them after receiving information about videotapes taken from the security cameras outside of the Holiday Inn and in the hotel's casino. It had been determined that they were the last people to be seen with her.  Jacobs considered the boys' statements to be consistent in that they had all said that they dropped Natalee off at the hotel.  However, I did not realize at the time that Beth had already told him that the tapes did not show Natalee returning to the Holiday Inn that night.

Page 13:  From my first day on the island, I realized that I could not rely on the police to find my daughter.  If they refused to search, we would organize and do it ourselves.

Page 14:  Incredibily, a publicity agent named Carla, from New York City firm that handles publicity for tourism in Aruba, tried to stop us from searching near the California Lighhouse, a tourist attraction, saying that it would be harmful to the island and bring too much negative media attention.  She said she had even discussed it with Beth and that she had agreed.  But I advised her that the search would go forward, no matter what kind of attention it brought.

Page 183:  I commented to Jacobs about how short my statement was. He said that I could add anything I wanted to it. Also, I noticed that Eric Soemers's name was on it, but that detective was not even present during the interview. Now I wondered if Jacobs was making up everyone's statement and getting Eric to sign on to them. If that were the case, he could state anything he wanted, and it would look like an official statement made in front of a witness.

Page 196:  I can no longer sit on the fence on this issue.  It has not been an easy decision for me to make.  But I need to know what happened to my daughter, and I do believe that a boycott may be the only way we will get anybody over there to talk to us or to turn in the people who are reponsible for her disappearance.


'On the Record w/ Greta' - November 17, 2005

DAVE HOLLOWAY:  I made sure that the prime minister understood our position. You know, I had been holding off on this boycott as long as I could, and I told him, I said, you know, The big wave is coming, and if you guys are not going to listen, I can't help you anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175925,00.html


On the Record w/ Greta - April 11, 2006

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S FATHER: Oh, the media was our best friend. If it hadn't been for the media this thing would have been swept under the table the very first day and we'd have been calling back to Aruba "Have you heard anything? Have you heard anything?" I truly believe that.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191377,00.html