Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 - 10/12/09

[Tamikosmom]

Hello Janet and KTF good to see you both still here.  I noticed not much new going on lately but your still here.  I like that type of consistency especially for Natalee! Well just thought I would say hello and I pray everyday Natalee comes home where she belongs.

antunym

Thanks you.

You have no idea how your words provided the encouragement I required.  I was feeling somewhat overwhelmed in my efforts behind the scenes in compiling the many aspects of the Persistence story.

 

Janet

+++++


Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 232:  Without hope we are hungry. And on a very deep level, desperate. But no one has to be. What's so amazing is that we can feed each other. We can help each other. We have the power to give resilience to others who are fading. We can nourish each other's spirits and save one another from defeat and despair. Every one of us possesses this power to "love thy neighbor," and we need to use it every chance we get.

Your welcome Janet I think your right on when it comes to most of this and you being here expressing it keeps me very hopeful for Natalee to come home.  Keep it up because the squeeky wheel always gets the oil right?  A very big thanks to you Janet.   I'm not always signed on but I'm always looking to see what you and the other loyal people to Natalee have figured out.  You all are amazing!

BUMP

 

[Kermit]

Mods

I apologize.  Please delete post 1820.

Thank you

Janet

Done...YW

Thanks again 2NJ

Good Morning All.

Canadian Thanksgiving is being held at our home this weekend.  I better clean my house.  Some in attendance may begin to suspect that I spend all my retirement hours on the computer.

 

Janet
9:30 AM PT

On the other hand, if you leave the house a mess they may begin to think you need help.
Poor Grandma can't keep up with all the house chores anymore and perhaps hire you a maid!

Heh Heh.

Make sure to bless veggie this year.
Happy Thanksgiving.

[Kermit]

May 17 Kyle posted to us:
Apparently I'm being accused by Mos, the Polis, and J. Silvetti as leaking the photos to SM. This is not true. Also, I need to show that I wasn't the first to leak the information about the pond search. Please Help if you can. Thanks!

 

What was true.  Kyle Kingman did the right thing and leaked those images ... that SM ultimately received ... to the FBI.

Janet
[/quote]

Kyle was talking about John being angry at him accusing him of leaking the pond photos.
Kyle asked for our help to prove he didn't leak the pond photos and he emailed John that it was Destiny who got the photos from her source in Aruba and Caps.

[Kermit]

On the other hand, if you leave the house a mess they may begin to think you need help.
Poor Grandma can't keep up with all the house chores anymore and perhaps hire you a maid!

Heh Heh.

Make sure to bless veggie this year.
Happy Thanksgiving.

On second thought - they may think you need to be put in a rest home if you can't clean up.
 

[2NJSons_Mom]

May 17 Kyle posted to us:
Apparently I'm being accused by Mos, the Polis, and J. Silvetti as leaking the photos to SM. This is not true. Also, I need to show that I wasn't the first to leak the information about the pond search. Please Help if you can. Thanks!

 

What was true.  Kyle Kingman did the right thing and leaked those images ... that SM ultimately received ... to the FBI.

Janet

Kyle was talking about John being angry at him accusing him of leaking the pond photos.
Kyle asked for our help to prove he didn't leak the pond photos and he emailed John that it was Destiny who got the photos from her source in Aruba and Caps.


[/quote]

Without looking back, I guess this is around the time when he flipped oiut on Red and Klaas.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Nevermind.....I was confusing cage photos with pond photos, I believe.   

[Kermit]

A team concern.

Janet

He always acted like he was getting information from Mos, but a closer look tells us he
got his information from Tim Tehran and/or John Silvetti and whatever they decided to tell him.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Is there any update on action by the FBI on those pictures?  Breaking news?

[Kermit]

May 17 Kyle posted to us:
Apparently I'm being accused by Mos, the Polis, and J. Silvetti as leaking the photos to SM. This is not true. Also, I need to show that I wasn't the first to leak the information about the pond search. Please Help if you can. Thanks!

 

What was true.  Kyle Kingman did the right thing and leaked those images ... that SM ultimately received ... to the FBI.

Janet

Kyle was talking about John being angry at him accusing him of leaking the pond photos.
Kyle asked for our help to prove he didn't leak the pond photos and he emailed John that it was Destiny who got the photos from her source in Aruba and Caps.

Without looking back, I guess this is around the time when he flipped oiut on Red and Klaas.
[/quote]

When the photos of the cage were posted by Robin Holloway and then sent to Klassend
is when Kyle attacked Red and accused him of leaking those photos.

When the pond photos were posted by Destiny, John emailed Kyle and was very angry at him and accused Kyle of leaking the pond photos.

 

[Tamikosmom]

The plan was to convince the world through the Dateline special that nothing case related was in the trap and ... the search effort would move on to "deeper waters" as instructed by the "powers that be".

However ... the December 29, 2007 ROV dive which clearly revealed ... according to the ships ROV image analyst ... that Natalee Holloway's remains were most likely in that trap ... would come back to haunt them through Kyle Kingman's own words.

Janet

Actually, I do not believe that they expected the cage to be revealed so the world would never have known if Dateline had not shown that cage in their special. Keep in mind, that Tim Tehran was trying to stop Dateline from airing that footage allegedly to protect the family from seeing that. Tim Miller was sent off the boat by John Silvetti according to Kyle. Even though we know that Tim Miller was still around for a couple of days. The Aruban's were working behind the scenes with setting up the Margos scam and the Pond hoax for Dave Holloway, which completely got the focus off of the cage/trap. Then there was the Rover tapes confession. Joran had no idea that he was being taped. He thought Patrick was his ally. The only piece of information he left out of his confession was the name of the man who helped him get rid of Natalee's body.
He admitted to raping her.

Who is the cop that helped Joran?

This detective wannabe was frustrated at what appeared to be ignorance/ naivity of the Persistence crew in regards to working with the enemy and expecting a positive outcome but ... she never for one minute was under the impression that John Silvetti was intentionally betraying Natalee Holloway.

I was taken back to some degree by the original ROV images that Klaas posted at SM and was to some degree taking Kermit's suspicions into consideration but ... in the Dateline special ... when Tim Trahan ... the American diver ... returned to the ship and was implied there was nothing case related in regards to what he observed in the trap ... I was convinced the truth was being revealed.

Then Kermit exposed Kyle Kingsman's own words ... the truth regarding Tim Trahan's outright deceptive.

Janet

+++++


DATELINE NBC - FEBRUARY 22, 2008

The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat)

No it's thumbs down.

Negative, not it.

Crushing disppointment.

(On the boat)

Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

[Kermit]

Is there any update on action by the FBI on those pictures?  Breaking news?

I know someone in the White House press core, but breaking news is usually
held pretty tight to the vest as they say.


Kyle said that there was an "internal investigation" and Caps said there were "20 CSI investigators on the island." No one has verified that though to my knowledge.

[Kermit]

This detective wannabe was frustrated at what appeared to be ignorance/ naivity of the Persistence crew in regards to working with the enemy and expecting a positive outcome but ... she never for one minute was under the impression that John Silvetti was intentionally betraying Natalee Holloway.

I was taken back to some degree by the original ROV images that Klaas posted at SM and was to some degree taking Kermit's suspicions into consideration but ... in the Dateline special ... when Tim Trahan ... the American diver ... returned to the ship and was implied there was nothing case related in regards to what he observed in the trap ... I was convinced the truth was being revealed.

Then Kermit exposed Kyle Kingsman's own words ... the truth regarding Tim Trahan's outright deceptive.

Janet

+++++


DATELINE NBC - FEBRUARY 22, 2008

The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat)

No it's thumbs down.

Negative, not it.

Crushing disppointment.

(On the boat)

Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

There is another quote where Kyle explains more about that moment and how Tim Tehran was only signalling something else. I'll try to find it for you later.

But I agree with you - how's an experienced diver run out of air when they just got in the water
and dove on the target? And the Aruban divers didn't?

If there was nothing to THAT cage then why does Schaefer and Tehran and Kyle try to sell the images from the dive on Jan. 7th?

If there was nothing to THAT cage then why did ARuba divers dive on it on Jan 7th and bag up rocks and sponges? Or a SKULL, TENNIS SHOE, BLUE DENIM FABRIC and ?????

common sense goes a long ways.

[Keepthefaith]

Whiskey girl.......... just WHO IS searching???????????????????????? All I hear are FALSE rumors out of Aruba or "Gold Monkeys". I see NO evidence of a continued search by Dave or anyone else.

Wreck

I have not heard anything official either regarding the continuing search.  However ... I do know that Debbie (BFN has a personal relationship with Dave and Robin Holloway and ... somehow do not think that she would fabricate on an open forum.

I do believe the solicitation of funds to further the search in Aruban waters would be considered fraud if there was not anything in the works.

Janet

++++++++
 

1.  February, 2008 - Kyle Kingman is solicitating funds toward the continuation of the search and ... those funds are designated to TES.

2.  April, 2008 - John Silvetti claims that Dave Holloway put him touch with the head of the tourist Association in regards to a "sizable" donation to assist in the costs associated with continuing the search.

3.  July, 2008 - Steve Holloway claims in his comment on SM Front Page that Dave intends to continue the search.

4.  March, 2009 - Tim Miller claims in a NBC.13 interview that there were still 270 targets to search.

5.  June, 2009 - Tim Miller reveals to Dana Pretzer that it is his intention to return to Aruba in regards to the targets that had yet been investigated.

6.  June, 2009 - Debbie (BFN) claims that Dave is working with Tim Miller, John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer in the raising of funds to continue the search in Aruban waters.

About raising the money to continue the search.You have Schaeffer(MULTI_MILLIONAIRE) who works with BILLION DOLLAR COMPANIES,as does Silvetti,who can't raise 1.5 million dollars????SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE ME THINKS....

I remember much monkey discussion about the financial trouble the businesses were in at the time.  The drilling business was in a tailspin, iirc there was even mention of bankruptcy.

So, when you have no money, how hard is it to scrape up a few million?  One million?

Wow, I think you missed quite a lot regarding the money.

Let's see.............in a nutshell...............

Superior Offshore (Louis Shaefer) had an IPO (Initial Public Offering) of their stock, and did so with fraudulent information to the SEC.  They inflated the worth of the company, lied about future plans, etc.  Tons and tons and tons of investors purchased stock.

Then Schaefer was paid out HUGE dividends from that ill gotten windfall - multi millions.

Then Schaefer sold many many many of his stocks, and got more multi millions.

Then he anonymously opened a PO Box and solicited for donations for the "search" for Natalee.

Then he hit the high seas with all his ill gotten millions, high tailed it to Aruba............where he promptly told the world that the money was running out.

Then Persistence pulled the plug after having MAPPED a vast area of the ocean floor - in ever deeper waters, in accordance with what Adolpho Richardson told them to do - without ever actually looking at a single one of the other "targets" they had planned to.

So Whiskey Girl you tell me - why would Schaefer pull the plug on this excercise when he has millions and millions to spare?  Why would he have solicited for donations for this search - on his own......ANONYMOUSLY when he has millions and millions to spare?

Why then would John Silvetti get on BFN and post that he needed at least ONE MILLION more dollars to return to Aruba to finish "searching"?

Why would ANYONE need to collect further funds for an additional search to inspect the remaining "targets", when Schaefer has more money than any one person could spend in a lifetime?

Why would ANYONE think that a future inspection of these "targets" is even going to happen - now 2 years after the fact, and NOT ONE THING has been done in those two years to get another trip put together?

The answers?

Jug told LALA'S that the Persistence's main purpose was OIL RELATED.

That little tidbit came directly from her keyboard.

If you had been reading about the oil activity around Aruba lately, you will know that:

1 - Venezuela claims the rights of the ocean surrounding Aruba

2 - Venezuela has newly "mapped/chartered/seismically recorded/eplored" areas of deposits

3 - Russia is currently drilling off the coastline of Aruba

ALL are things that would have required initial data by doing EXACTLY what Persistence was capable of doing while there.

But, as always - you are certainly entitled to believe what you wish to believe.  If you are truly interested in the goings on with all of this - I suggest you do your own research and will find that every single thing I stated in this post is FACT.

But don't take my word for it - or that of the dedicated Monkeys who have helped to find all this information - like I said, do your own research and you will find it all yourself.

Happy digging, Whiskey Girl.

BUMPIN FOR WHISKEYGIRL...

[Tamikosmom]

Nevermind.....I was confusing cage photos with pond photos, I believe.   

Me too!

Kermit

Was Kyle Kingman refering to the leaked ROV images in the first part of his post or ... was the entire post refering the pond images.

Thanks.

Janet

+++++


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - May 17, 2008:  Apparently I'm being accused by Mos, the Polis, and J. Silvetti as leaking the photos to SM. This is not true.

Also, I need to show that I wasn't the first to leak the information about the pond search. Please Help if you can. Thanks!

Kermit @ scaredmonkeys.com

[Tamikosmom]

This detective wannabe was frustrated at what appeared to be ignorance/ naivity of the Persistence crew in regards to working with the enemy and expecting a positive outcome but ... she never for one minute was under the impression that John Silvetti was intentionally betraying Natalee Holloway.

I was taken back to some degree by the original ROV images that Klaas posted at SM and was to some degree taking Kermit's suspicions into consideration but ... in the Dateline special ... when Tim Trahan ... the American diver ... returned to the ship and was implied there was nothing case related in regards to what he observed in the trap ... I was convinced the truth was being revealed.

Then Kermit exposed Kyle Kingsman's own words ... the truth regarding Tim Trahan's outright deceptive.

Janet

+++++


DATELINE NBC - FEBRUARY 22, 2008

The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat)

No it's thumbs down.

Negative, not it.

Crushing disppointment.

(On the boat)

Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

BUMPED!!

THE JOHN SILVETTI/TIM TRAHAN BETRAYAL

When I consider Kyle Kingman's own words ... I do believe that from now on I will reference "The John Silvetti and Tim Trahan Betrayal".

Tim Trahan was the Persistence's only diver on the observation dive of December 30, 2007 and ... he was not one of the divers on the recovery dive of January 7, 2008.

Think about it!  The Aruban divers deemed the trap not case related but ... Tim Trahan claims his vision was obscured by sediment from a passing skate.  The Aruban divers appear to have had a substantial airl supply but ... Tim Trahan was required to surface.

What redeeming quality in regards to the search effort for Natalee Holloway's remains did Tim Trahan contribute as as a legacy?

 Janet

+++++++

THE PERSISTENCE'S DIVER - TIM TRAHAN

1.  THE SIGNAL

Why would Tim Trahan makes up a signal for the viewers of Dateline ... a signal that had no meaning to anybody but him?
_________

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #284 on: March 03, 2008, 11:34:25 PM »

To clarify the thumb down issue: It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive. One thumb up was to indicate human remains.  There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.280


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee.  When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive. He couldn't tell by his own admission.

Kermit @ scaredmonkeys.net


2. VISIBILITY - AIR TIME

Tim Trahan's visibility was hindered but ... the Aruban divers clearly observed.

Tim Trahan enters the dive with an insufficient air supply leaving the Aruban divers on the ocean floor to determine whether the contents of the cage/trap were case related.
______

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #284 on: March 03, 2008, 11:34:25 PM »

By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive

What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.28


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Aruban divers deemed the cage to be not case related, and therefore Aruba had no interest in it. 

Kyle Kingman:   It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further.

Kermit @ scaredmonkeys.net


3.  INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW.

What did Tim Trahan have to contribute to the collaboration that left John Silvetti "out of the loop" ... Tim Trahan who was the December 30th diver who saw nothing ... Tim Trahan who was "out of the country" on January 7th when the Aruban divers took sole possession of the trap's contents?

What did the archive copy of the ROV footage that Tim Trahan possessed reveal?
_________

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time.

Kyle Kingman:  On the contrary, neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.  Oh, no one has possession of any footage except Tim Trahan, an archived copy on the Persistence, and myself.

Kyle Kingman:   Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.  We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

Kyle Kingman:  Differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John [Silvetti] is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me. What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations. loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now

Kermit @ scaredmonkeys.net

+++++++

[Keepthefaith]

IIRC.I believe Tim Trahan plead guilty to some sort of fraud,insider trading..

[WhiskeyGirl]

Is there any update on action by the FBI on those pictures?  Breaking news?

I know someone in the White House press core, but breaking news is usually
held pretty tight to the vest as they say.


Kyle said that there was an "internal investigation" and Caps said there were "20 CSI investigators on the island." No one has verified that though to my knowledge.

Does that mean we have to wait for corruption to clean up itself on Aruba?

[Kermit]

Oceanexploration posted Feb. 23, 2008
It is irresponsible and potentially damaging to do what they did (broadcasting the show while the search is still active) and they [DATELINE] broke their agreement with Tim and John to make this production. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2438.msg354749#msg354749

oceanexploration posted Feb 29, 2008
I am the one who made those screen captures from live ROV footage. You foolishly thought they were taken from the footage on Dateline!
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2660.msg357379#msg357379


By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360282#msg360282


 

[Kermit]

Does that mean we have to wait for corruption to clean up itself on Aruba?

I do not believe that corruption cleans itself up.

[Keepthefaith]

IIRC.I believe Tim Trahan plead guilty to some sort of fraud,insider trading..

Here's a link to the discussion of one of the so-called heros!One has admitted to insider trading securities fraud and another is being investigated for it.WoW.What a crew of Hero's ehh!