Lively Case Discussion #550 11/28 - 11/29/2006

[IBE]

Anna,

I am at the page where you questioned the whys and ifs having to to do with the 2nd photo shopped/cropped pict that Joran has placed himself into.

I am not a Photoshop expert and perhaps Klaas has already ansered this,

but.... to make Joran look as if he has his arm around her and she is close to his face, the hair had to be narrowed, probably leaving out the left earring so she'd fit close to him. In doing this, it is my guess the photo shopper/cropper need to match her hair color to match in the fill in place he was doing. He/she probably grabbed a darker blend of a color in Natalee's hair and didn't streak  it as he should have at the cost he/she was paid.

IMO my 2 cents worth and I haven't done Photoshop in years!

IBE

[msmarple]

Earlier tonight Robots was making a "lie list." I can't take the time now to run down the PVs or transcripts to support this, but I *think* it goes like this - would like any further clarification from anyone:

1. HI dropoff & SG story. HI tape does not support dropoff, and SGs have alibis.

2. K2 & Natalee dropped J off at VDS house. K2 deny (2 against 1).

3. K2 dropped Natalee & J off at beach near Marriott; DK picked up Joran later; Natalee left on the beach. I believe this also incorporates DK promising to swing by and get J's shoes (which would put DK in Natalee's vicinity on the beach). The IM to DK ("I'm home") blows this one.

4. K2 dropped Natalee & J off at beach near Marriott; SK picked up Joran later; Natalee left on the beach. I think this was said on a show; I did not see that in a PV. Do not know specifically why this was discounted, although "2 against 1" probably a factor.

5. K2 dropped Natalee & J off at beach near Marriott; Joran walked home barefoot and left Natalee on the beach. Per de Vries, ALE do not believe the beach was involved.

6. Meanwhile, there is the strange conflicting account of what was said in the VDS driveway when the so-called Alabama Posse arrived. Per Beth, "10 witnesses" heard PVDS say he picked J up at McDonald's at 4:00 a.m.

And that's just the transportation lies.

[msmarple]

Should have noted in No. 6 above, re. the PVDS "pickup at 4:00 a.m." - PVDS subsequently denies this, sticks to the pickup at 11:00 p.m. only.

[Tylergal]

Should have noted in No. 6 above, re. the PVDS "pickup at 4:00 a.m." - PVDS subsequently denies this, sticks to the pickup at 11:00 p.m. only.

The pickup at 4 a.m. was witnessed.  It contains the get-out-of-jail-free card.

[msmarple]

Should have noted in No. 6 above, re. the PVDS "pickup at 4:00 a.m." - PVDS subsequently denies this, sticks to the pickup at 11:00 p.m. only.

The pickup at 4 a.m. was witnessed.  It contains the get-out-of-jail-free card.

Explain? I think I remember something about a witness or maybe security camera on this ... but get-out-of-jail-free?

[msmarple]

Should have noted in No. 6 above, re. the PVDS "pickup at 4:00 a.m." - PVDS subsequently denies this, sticks to the pickup at 11:00 p.m. only.

The pickup at 4 a.m. was witnessed.  It contains the get-out-of-jail-free card.

I've been thinking about this 4:00 a.m. pickup these last few days. Of course, just because PVDS said this in the driveway that morning, doesn't mean it's a fact - BUT, let's say it is true and he picked Joran up at 4:00 a.m. at McDonald's again, I think it was?

How does this tie in with this latest from de Vries, that ALE doesn't buy the beach story at all?

And that the VDS homestead was involved?

And that JVDS ran porn on the computer for two hours?

Too tired to think about it now ...  

[Sue]

Maybe Joron was downlaoding porn to get natalee ya know in the mood
because that is the way his sick mind works

[Tylergal]

Questions frequently arise regards Mike Posner and the Holiday Inn.  I found this that I had saved from Harry Tho before he got Slooted.

HarryTho On The Natalee Holloway Case: Was Michael Posner in the mob?
Topics: Natalee Holloway

A reader at another site asked if the Mike Posner of Aruba is the same Mike Posner from the Chicago Mob. The answer is yes. He did some time in the 80s, but after his release the Chicago outfit rewarded him by putting him in charge of their Aruba interests. In Chicago he was identified in the newspapers as “The Vice Kingpin of the Northwest Suburbs.” He ran gambling, adult bookstores, strip clubs and prostitution. You'll recall that Posner and Natalee went missing during the same week, which is too much of a coincidence to simply ignore. According to the early posts on Dan Reihl's site, Posner met Natalee at the Excelsior Casino. I believe it was at the same time that Natalee introduced herself to Joran van der Sloot.

Posner certainly had the ability to make Natalee disappear. From the comments on the excelsior Casino that they cater to a lot of wealthy South Americans, I would suspect that Posner would be our connection to the sex trade. He is the King of the Bums in Aruba. He knows what is going on criminal-wise. The fact that Natalee has not appeared, tells me that he had something to do with her disappearance.

I have suspected Posner's involvement all along, but I had never previously suspected that he had a criminal record from Chicago, at least until the information came out. How the Aruba police have not clamped down on this guy is simply amazing. But, Posner could have had an arrangement with the former Police Chief van der Straaten.

As reported: Michael Posner owns the Excelsior Casino in Aruba, and caters mostly to "Spaniards". From what I gather from the Excelsior's casino info, some 30% of the gamblers come from South America. These are experienced gamblers used to playing for high stakes. Hence, they are South Americans with money!

On another note, the Excelsior Casino is a pioneer in on-line gambling.

Also, Michal Posner bought the Grand Holiday Casino (GHC) and changed the name to the Excelsior Casino on 1 September 1998.

Posted for HarryTho

[IBE]

Klaas,

Hi! I am still pages behind in reading, put have another favor. When my HD went down, I thought I had a lot backed up. Can;t find my avatar?

Do you, by chance still have it? Thought I'd ask late early in AM and maybe you aren't too busy. TIA    IBE (It's freezing now, yet in short sleeves this afternoon!)

[IBE]

In the picture where Joran is first photoshopped/cropped in... it looks, IMO, as if Natalee is giving him the finger!   Go Natalle and one to all who are into corruptness, cronyism, coverup and elitism everywhere!

What is way she might be using to get her message out!

[IBE]

Opps, should have read "What a way".

[IBE]

Re: your question... perhaps the family up to grandpa of Wever? et al

[IBE]

Must be the only one here! this AM.

Look at the Wever family public press release response to their son's arrest.... more Hitler refs. et al.; why bring Hitler into a PR release about your son's arrest? Just like the Arubian request to our State Department or was it the FBI... was Beth really related to Hitler??? OH Come on! Ugh. Out of the same cloth er writing?

Study the style of writing; maybe is similar to many of the previous Arubian PR releases, along the line with Natalee "just disappeared"  and anti-Beth statements coming out of Aruba... IMO.

Go farther up the ladder... isn't there a grandfather in the 70's who and his son (Guildo's father) who are in the business of matching businesses up with money in Aruba?

Also I read somewhere that the elder elder on is still active behind the scenes on the political front and diplomacy front in Aruba and pulls many strings. I think this was posted early on by an Arubian poster.

It might be interesting to see if there is a maze in here somewhere that continues back to Holland's mover and shakers that like Aruba, perhaps, the way it is and profit greatly from it. IMO just thoughts.

RE PVDS....Of course, PVDS would know the skeletons, as many, on this close knit island, especially if you were Dutch, and in the Court system. I believe that PVDS even helped Volking (King) on the Court cases, evidence of the Mathews case.

There is some ref. in that case of missing evidence in Aruba and trying to coverup what really happened... I think the International Court at The Hague got into it, finally, and blew it apart.

Why were the Black men arrested, even, when supposedly via the ALA's wiretaps (aka singing birds?) and other knowledge (IMO) known to KJ and the Judges (with a capital "J") said that the Black men were not part of the "disappearance".

Isn't Interpol the agency that steps in when there is supposed areas of corruptness in law enforcement and prosecution?

Wasn't the Ober and Wever cemetary spots damaged? How does this figure into the timeline of happenings on the Island?

Shango was right in many of his/her coded messages.... even down to the porn. Many of the Code Talkers Thread caught that early on and stayed withh it.

Alas, what was ever done to the school students who raped their fellow student in Aruba and plasted the act all over with cell phones or was it the computer?

The poor girl had to leave her home, her parents and start schooling in another country.

What did KJ and the ALE do since then to the "boys". After the terrible thing that happened to Natalee  and all the bad PR for Aruba.. what lead the "boys" to think they could do it and get by with it?? Well, nothing happened to those with Natalee the last night!!! so I guess that might be their thinking! What a web has been weaved and those decieved!

I hope all those wearing White Hats take care of themselves.

[IBE]

Tylergirl,

Remember the cartoon from Canada, I believe, that had the hooded ones on the beach? which we now know was the Visability Team. The artist had someone's face in the hotel, on a high floor over-seeing it all.

Could that have been a hint... aka Shango-ism... maybe not really seeing "it" happen but over-seeing it after it happened? Maybe it wasn't even Posner... the Visibility Team business had a lot to loose if their members and/or were involved

The cartoon also hinted at that Natalee was pegged before that night..

IMO Makes us go hmmmmmmmm

Night all.

[IBE]

Since I am the only one here... I'll add one more thing.

I have a 56k modem. If I download the City Council's meeting and it is an hour.. it takes me that long to download it or Dana's program in mpeg form. (ipod for for those who have ipods)

Would think if Joran had such a very expensive lap top shown in his pool side picture, I would think they would have cable or sat. downlink ie DSL.

Would the Wi-Fi network at the hotels be able to be picked up at Joran's house? If they had the outdoor connection (whatever it is called. Help! Metroguy, where are you??) anyway if this antennae (sp?) was on top of the hotel wouldn't it cover more than a few blocks? His house wasn't that far away for WIFI?

We have WiFi downtown in the city in which I live. It is on a 2 story building and only carries about 2 blocks and not in all directions because of its placement, I guess. I can pick it up at certain places, but not all outside in the same area.

Some of the connects don't work because of, I guess, the structure of the buildings downtown.. however, there would be no high buildings, etc between the hotels and where Joran lives.

There were many refs. in Shango about singing birds, and some ref. about the areas in the SE or SW of the island... a mountain or a hump or

It's late... it had Hool or something like that in the name. Is the city, and hotel areas WI FIed?

Don't forget about what Anna has always said about the computer and phone times... something stinks... but most does anyway about this case.

This time, it is Good Night. Monkeys  Keep keeping up the Good Works!

Help Klaas or someone... anyone have my little monkey imp avatar??? I miss him or her!

[IBE]

Sue

Maybe Joron was downlaoding porn to get natalee ya know in the mood because that is the way his sick mind works

Wasn't it Satish that put in the DVD of the porn in the call right after Natalee got in?

Seems the pimps MO!  lots of porn and taking advantage of tourist girls.

Did they learn it from the "elders"? as a way of life on that Happy Island?

[Leslie]

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
AweMainta
http://www.awemainta.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

[Leslie]

From Diario:

ABOGADONAN DI JORAN, DEEPAK Y SATISH TA BAY CORTE AWE, PA PIDI MINISTERIO TUMA UN DECISION

ORANJESTAD(AAN): Awe na corte e sospechosonan Deepak y Satish Kalpoe ta bay presenta dilanti di huez comisario hunto cu nan abogado David Kock.
Abogado Carlo representando Joran van der Sloot tambe lo bay corte, pero ainda no ta sigur cu Joran mes tambe lo tey.
E sospechosonan lo bay corte acompaña pa nan abogadonan, pa pidi huez pa laga Ministerio Publico tuma e decision di sea cuminza un caso contra nan of sepone esaki.
Despues di casi exactamente 1 aña y mey cu Natalee Holloway a desaparece, ainda Ministerio Publico no a cuminza un caso contra e 3 sospechosonan y ainda ta consideranan como sospechoso.
Esaki ta pone cu Joran, Satish y Deepak ta keda den un incertidumbre, mientras cu Ministerio Publico por keda exigi cierto cosnan for di nan. Pesey e abogadonan kier pa huez tuma un decision, pa e hobennan por sigui cu nan bida.

[blah]

Imette St Guillen Case

NYPD blowtorched the plumbing out of Littlejohn's home for forensic examination.  They ripped up the floorboards, tore out the walls and sheetrock.

Of course they confiscated all the linens and laundry, all the plumbing traps, all the clothing -- everything.  

NYPD knew this was the guy, and they were gonna nail him.  And they did.

What happened at 19 Montana?

Just askin'.

Wow...way to say it Hammer...WTG!!  Gives rise to many questions doesnt it....

And representing the family of the victim in this would be???  Compare and contrast what happened at the apartment only of his other client.
Basically nothing.  A show in bunny suits for the cameras was about all.

So it isn't as though Joey T doesn't know what a proper search consists of.

Whoever blocked that search should be charged with obstruction of justice and prosecuted.  Witt and Ben King seem two culpable at least.

.

Going after these 2 men with every charge they can throw at them will solve this case.  These 2 men know what happened and they will squeal before they go down for the punk kid joran.  Pressure Witt, vocKING, Carlos, and Janssen.  Are they ALL willing to take the fall for the little man of the ditch?

[blah]

Imagine that.  The poor Kalpoes feel uncomfortable about being suspects.  My god these people have no scruples.

HMMMMM

IF the Kalpoes were released as suspects, wouldn that pretty much force Joran to make a move.  After all, he would be the only one left with his butt on the line.  Could get pretty interesting.