Caylee Marie Anthony # 146 9/4/09 - 9/13/09

[Desdemona]

Desi- Thank you for the visual clarification!  Great point!  There's no way Casey could have used the shovel to get the ladder out of the pool.  The ladder would be awkward, at best, lying in the pool.  I don't think Casey could have managed to get it out by herself, even if she was in the pool because she'd have to lift it so far above to clear the side of the pool.  JMO

Well, we could be wrong, but I agree with you that it doesn't look physically feasible... and also, it just seems so ODD in the first place, to imagine why a big pool ladder like that would even be IN the pool in the first place... on June 18, if the neighbor's date is right.

Cindy and George say the pool ladder was removed from the side of the pool on the night of June 15, but that they found it hooked back onto the side of the pool on the 17th (and the gate left open).  So really it does not seem to make sense that the ladder would have somehow been IN the pool the next day (18th), does it? 

I am leaning toward agreeing with JSM, that the open gate, ladder-on-pool story might be a ruse for some reason...

I have also always thought there was some particular reason George reported the theft of the gas cans.  Surely they knew it was Casey, right; she had stolen gas from them before, and they had supposedly only recently began locking the shed?  Maybe he reported the "theft" to deflect attention from the fact that he knew it was Casey who broke in?  I don't know.  When the theft report hit the media, Cindy said she didn't know anything about it.  It's so puzzling.

One more thing:  Did you read in one of Tony L's interviews, where he told LE that he had once broken into his own parents' shed with a tire iron, just like he later did for Casey that day in June -- to get gas once when he was on empty himself and short on funds?  And that he told his parents about it immediately afterwards?  (Just like Casey supposedly did.)  I found that intriguing.

It has been asked before: WHY didn't George notify the police that he had ID'd the thief?  That is very irresponsible to file a report and not let them know the case was solved.  Fishy, the whole gas can thing, IMO.

[Desdemona]

One of the things I find indisputable when this comes to trial is Dominic Casey searching those woods 300+ feet away on his first attempt and 60+/- feet on his second try.  Someone with knowledge directed him to those particular woods and to check black trash bags.  I'm guessing Casey's closest confidant and secret-keeper Lee is the someone and that's why he needed immunity in his deposition.  So he will not be prosecuted for withholding information in a pending investigation/missing persons case.  He's not going to take the fall for Casey, no matter how loyal she thinks he is.  He's not that stupid.  Only a handful of people knew where Caylee was IMO:  Casey, Lee, Cindy, George, and/or maybe Baez.  Since Dominic Casey worked for Cindy and the Anthonys, there you go.  IMO, at least one of them, as well as possibly Baez had knowledge.  Baez might be covered under Attorney-Client privilege.  Anyone else was obstructing an investigation, falsifying information, aiding and abetting. I'm not buying the whole psychic tale and I seriously doubt anyone else will either, Judge or jury-wise.  If I were Orange County, I'd be filing a search warrant for all of Baez' computers personal and professional.   

Pavers.

They seem to have been looking for pavers as a landmark.  That had to come from somewhere; most likely from Casey.

IMO, it could have been any number of people who passed along the information to Dominic.  Lee, certainly.  Or Casey herself, who did meet with Dominic in jail.  Or Baez.  Or someone else.  Er, perhaps it was NOT an out-of-state psychic on the phone... sorry Dominic.

Apparently Casey did not realize that there were other groups of pavers that would mislead and confuse these bumblers.

JMO

[Fanny Mae]

Pic:

I mentioned earlier today that I had always thought Tracy was the heavier set woman who went outside with Spindy when she was standing outside the door talking of the phone after Skanky was taken back to jail that night the protestors were there. She came from the inside of the house, and I also saw her pull Spindy away from the people in the truck when the little boy got hurt with the door of the truck. She seemed to be inside the house, and for the longest I thought she might be Tracy. Do you know who the other person was?

[Fanny Mae]

One of the things I find indisputable when this comes to trial is Dominic Casey searching those woods 300+ feet away on his first attempt and 60+/- feet on his second try.  Someone with knowledge directed him to those particular woods and to check black trash bags.  I'm guessing Casey's closest confidant and secret-keeper Lee is the someone and that's why he needed immunity in his deposition.  So he will not be prosecuted for withholding information in a pending investigation/missing persons case.  He's not going to take the fall for Casey, no matter how loyal she thinks he is.  He's not that stupid.  Only a handful of people knew where Caylee was IMO:  Casey, Lee, Cindy, George, and/or maybe Baez.  Since Dominic Casey worked for Cindy and the Anthonys, there you go.  IMO, at least one of them, as well as possibly Baez had knowledge.  Baez might be covered under Attorney-Client privilege.  Anyone else was obstructing an investigation, falsifying information, aiding and abetting. I'm not buying the whole psychic tale and I seriously doubt anyone else will either, Judge or jury-wise.  If I were Orange County, I'd be filing a search warrant for all of Baez' computers personal and professional.   

Pavers.

They seem to have been looking for pavers as a landmark.  That had to come from somewhere; most likely from Casey.

IMO, it could have been any number of people who passed along the information to Dominic.  Lee, certainly.  Or Casey herself, who did meet with Dominic in jail.  Or Baez.  Or someone else.  Er, perhaps it was NOT an out-of-state psychic on the phone... sorry Dominic.

Apparently Casey did not realize that there were other groups of pavers that would mislead and confuse these bumblers.

JMO

The pavers were definitley something D Casey was looking for, and a psychic wasn't on the phone, and didn't give him directions. Someone who had gotten directions for someone was giving him instructions. It was a pretty big place, and would be easy not to find the exact sport unless they were there, or going by what was told him I still feel pretty sure it was Lee. If not him, it was Spindy. But why were they trying to find her then? To remove her permanently??

[Fanny Mae]

While it's always good to toss theories around with you all, I need to catch some z's.  Big thanks to all of the many monkeys who've been kind enough to post info and links on the doc dumps, interviews, and pics too.  It means a lot to monkeys like me, who are short on reading time right now.  Thank you!  Hopefully will be back soon to catch up.  Take good care and good night everyone!

Sorry I missed saying goodnight ISPY. I am going right behind you. I can't type a clear coherant sentence now, and can barely spell.

[Fanny Mae]

I am fading fast at this point, so I will say Good Night. It was a pleasure posting with you all tonight. 

[Desdemona]

I mentioned earlier today that I had always thought Tracy was the heavier set woman who went outside with Spindy when she was standing outside the door talking of the phone after Skanky was taken back to jail that night the protestors were there. She came from the inside of the house, and I also saw her pull Spindy away from the people in the truck when the little boy got hurt with the door of the truck. She seemed to be inside the house, and for the longest I thought she might be Tracy. Do you know who the other person was?

I don't recall who the "heavier set woman" might have been.  Maybe not Tracy, since Tracy mentions in her interview that she(Tracy) was mistaken for Casey in one media moment outside Baez's office, when she had on a blue poncho and a towel over her head... IMO Tracy would have to be fairly thin to be mistaken for Casey back then, before all the pop tarts and sausage sticks...

However, Tracy does state that only she and Cindy were in the house with Casey (watching Nancy Grace) when LE arrived at the door to arrest Casey on the night of August 29.

Sorry, I just don't know.  I do recall there were a couple of female OCSO officers there, and one or both of them may have appeared "ample" of figure.  Maybe if you posted a still shot or a video, someone could ID who was there. 

(And I did see where you mentioned that earlier.  I always read every single post in the Caylee thread.)

[Desdemona]

Goodnight, Monkeys!  Sweet dreams.

God Bless Our Caylee.             
           
           

[Gizzie]

Goodnight, Monkeys!  Sweet dreams.

God Bless Our Caylee.             
           
           

Good night Desi, pleasant dreams! 

[Gizzie]

Goodnight all!

[BluesyGram]

One of the things I find indisputable when this comes to trial is Dominic Casey searching those woods 300+ feet away on his first attempt and 60+/- feet on his second try.  Someone with knowledge directed him to those particular woods and to check black trash bags.  I'm guessing Casey's closest confidant and secret-keeper Lee is the someone and that's why he needed immunity in his deposition.  So he will not be prosecuted for withholding information in a pending investigation/missing persons case.  He's not going to take the fall for Casey, no matter how loyal she thinks he is.  He's not that stupid.  Only a handful of people knew where Caylee was IMO:  Casey, Lee, Cindy, George, and/or maybe Baez.  Since Dominic Casey worked for Cindy and the Anthonys, there you go.  IMO, at least one of them, as well as possibly Baez had knowledge.  Baez might be covered under Attorney-Client privilege.  Anyone else was obstructing an investigation, falsifying information, aiding and abetting. I'm not buying the whole psychic tale and I seriously doubt anyone else will either, Judge or jury-wise.  If I were Orange County, I'd be filing a search warrant for all of Baez' computers personal and professional.   

Pavers.

They seem to have been looking for pavers as a landmark.  That had to come from somewhere; most likely from Casey.

IMO, it could have been any number of people who passed along the information to Dominic.  Lee, certainly.  Or Casey herself, who did meet with Dominic in jail.  Or Baez.  Or someone else.  Er, perhaps it was NOT an out-of-state psychic on the phone... sorry Dominic.

Apparently Casey did not realize that there were other groups of pavers that would mislead and confuse these bumblers.

JMO

If Dominic did see KC in jail (and I think we did see him on the visitor's list)...why haven't we seen the video of that?  Surely that wouldn't have qualified as atty/client priviledge?  So if she did tell DC during that visit...LE would have that info also.  That tells me that it had to either come via a letter from KC to Baez to Lee to Dominic.  (there's that daisy chain thing again).  I agree that the pavers were the 'markers'.  Sure is nice to see you posting again Desi.

[Western Observr]

I do however think that Lyons is now setting the tone with the legal team.  She really has her work cut out for her with Casey.

Notice how Tracy said that KC always wore makeup and was very concerned with her appearance..yet this last time in court no makeup, no knoodling with Baez, acted tearful with George on the stand..yet still needed to be physically turned around by Lyons to look at her parents..yet she still did not look at them.

I think Lyons is taking KC along on mini steps of how she should appear and act..and having a daughter of her own..taking on the kindly mother role.  Before Lyons is done KC will appear and act like a different person, but will still have moments of her true character shining through.  As well as moments where we will see some of her anger in her facial features.

Monkeys I have loved this discussion but I ahve to say goodnight my friends..sweet dreams.

Gypsy DD- Good thinking!  I am thinking this is the real reason Lyons can't possibly be ready for trial until Jan. 2010.  She will need that long to coach KC, so that by the time this trial rolls around, she hope to present KC as an emotionally distraught, wrongly accused mother of a murdered child.  I think that's the strategy.  By that time, I expect to see Casey acting as a loving and attentive daughter to CA & GA in court and there may even be emotional and heart-wrenching jail video visits to reinforce that charade.  I would NOT be surprised in the least.
Enjoyed having this parlay with you!  Hope you have a good evening!

Yes, she has to 'rehab' KC's image to appear more sympathetic !   
New version: -  Poor overwhelmed confused young mother, dominated by overbearing parents...
Can you imagine having her job?
Let me see now, what is on my to-do list this morning....   Callous young murderer needs a makeover so she can escape justice.....  Oh, I LOVE my job.......

[trimmonthelake]

[Sharon/Tx]

The ladder in the pool story sounds unlikely.

Even more so:  Using a shovel to "remove" a ladder from a pool.

Picture of pool ladder:

  Look at the pool ladder and how it is the same height as the fence.  All she had to do was lean it back, pull it out of the pool and near the fence where she could lift and carry the body over or drop it and move it later.

[cherjers]

Fanny Mae- You're so right about all of the tit-for-tat Cindy & Casey probably engaged in for years and the constant wrestling/striving for control.  WOW!  I've never seen anything like this and both sides of my parents' families are pretty dysfunctional IMO.  We consider it a good family reunion (there have been few) when there are no sudden angry eruptions of two parties squaring off; people yelling, crying, and leaving early.    When one actually comes off without drama, we count it a major success (like putting a man on the moon or successful brain surgery).
     WE must be related-

[Western Observr]

One of the things I find indisputable when this comes to trial is Dominic Casey searching those woods 300+ feet away on his first attempt and 60+/- feet on his second try.  Someone with knowledge directed him to those particular woods and to check black trash bags.  I'm guessing Casey's closest confidant and secret-keeper Lee is the someone and that's why he needed immunity in his deposition.  So he will not be prosecuted for withholding information in a pending investigation/missing persons case.  He's not going to take the fall for Casey, no matter how loyal she thinks he is.  He's not that stupid.  Only a handful of people knew where Caylee was IMO:  Casey, Lee, Cindy, George, and/or maybe Baez.  Since Dominic Casey worked for Cindy and the Anthonys, there you go.  IMO, at least one of them, as well as possibly Baez had knowledge.  Baez might be covered under Attorney-Client privilege.  Anyone else was obstructing an investigation, falsifying information, aiding and abetting. I'm not buying the whole psychic tale and I seriously doubt anyone else will either, Judge or jury-wise.  If I were Orange County, I'd be filing a search warrant for all of Baez' computers personal and professional.   

Pavers.

They seem to have been looking for pavers as a landmark.  That had to come from somewhere; most likely from Casey.

IMO, it could have been any number of people who passed along the information to Dominic.  Lee, certainly.  Or Casey herself, who did meet with Dominic in jail.  Or Baez.  Or someone else.  Er, perhaps it was NOT an out-of-state psychic on the phone... sorry Dominic.

Apparently Casey did not realize that there were other groups of pavers that would mislead and confuse these bumblers.

JMO

I dunno.  If you listen to one of the first interviews LE did, with one of the Anthonys' neighbor- the Bailey Dickens tape,  the husband states that Kiomarie told the police in the earliest days that most likely Casey would dump a body right in that spot and they ought to search there...   I would still like to know what was done to follow up that suggestion.

[NCMike]

The ladder in the pool story sounds unlikely.

Even more so:  Using a shovel to "remove" a ladder from a pool.

Picture of pool ladder:

Desi- Thank you for the visual clarification!  Great point!  There's no way Casey could have used the shovel to get the ladder out of the pool.  The ladder would be awkward, at best, lying in the pool.  I don't think Casey could have managed to get it out by herself, even if she was in the pool because she'd have to lift it so far above to clear the side of the pool.  JMO

I'm not sure why they started the pool story but here is what I know about above ground pool ladders.

There are generally two types; A frame ladders which have steps outside and inside the pool and deck to pool ladders, where the steps are in the pool and the ladder attaches to the deck.  From the pics it appears the A's have an A frame ladder.  These ladders are made from a heavy plastic or resin so they are tough but light.  With A frame ladders it is the weight of the water that gets into the ladder frame that keeps it weighted down inside the pool.  Some people will put sand inside the frame if they don't plan to move the ladder much.  Casey could conceivably move the ladder out of the pool, especially as the water runs out of the frame, the ladder becomes lighter.

The story about using the shovel to remove the ladder is ridiculous.  Don't see how or why anyone would try that.  Also, the moment that shovel is put against the vinyl liner it will put a hole in the liner and then the pool will have a leak. 

I'd be curious to know what type of filter was on the A's pool, typcially in Florida the above ground pools will have a sand filter, some will use a DE filter.  A DE filter would be easier for LE to find evidnce in because of the grids that filter particles from the water.  The sand filter would also catch these particles (depending on the size of the particles) but you have to remember for their size above ground pool that filter has 100 - 150 pounds of sand.  Also, a simple backwash of the filter after she was done and I would think Skank could have gotten rid of a lot of evidence in the water.

I do believe Caylee was in or near that pool, and I firmly believe she was laid on the ground in that shallow depression, a lot happened in that backyard!

[joesamas mama]

JSM-Thanks for bringing up the gun issue.  I enjoyed the refresher course.  If I were SA, I'd ask my little witness under oath during trial why he bought that gun just hours before her release, in direct violation of the stated terms of her probation.  I'd also ask why it was hidden in the wheel well and not in the house where it would be more readily accessible to him if protestors broke into the home? I'd be sure to point up that protestors wouldn't be storming the garage...more likely the front door, front windows.
Good night and keep asking those good questions!  You go, girl!

You are welcome Ispy, after listening to Rob and LP saying that George and Jim were adamant about not having firearms in the house. That got me to thinking about George and his gun in the trunk.

[no rose colored glasses]

NCMike good post, and I agree a lot of things happened in that backyard                                             

[no rose colored glasses]

Originally Posted by Tony Padilla 
Where is all the really good juicy stuff at? This case has way too many threads to really get to. I try but it's tough. If there is anything good please let me know.                                 ( Now why is this Tony? Who are you running to with the juicy stuff? I don't trust any of them, they all have an agenda and it all involves making money. This was from WS)