Lindsey Baum # 5 9/28/09 - 10/4/09

[no rose colored glasses]

DD I'm gonna stand with you on this.  All families are raked over the coals when their child is missing but she wasn't.  I didn't understand then and don't now.  If it turns out that the young man is implicated so be it but I always thought something was wrong on KaraK's and MB's end.  Go get'em DD.

I have never felt comfortable with either one of them.

[Tracygirl]

Hello all, hubby's fever is staying around 100, so if anyone has any advise on how to get a 180lb stubborn man to the hospital, just in case, let me know because he will not go. I suppose it is good the fever is staying around 100...ugg men are really the worse patients ever! Honestly he is driving me nuts, lol.

So I see we have some conflicting things going on. Norrose you are correct about the water in the pool being used for household use, I wonder though if it is for watering the vegetation around the property for fire season, that is the only other time I have heard of water collection in pools. Working water for a house would have to go through a water treatment system if it is collected from a pool as it is sometimes done with well water. I don't know though....

This Dale guy, on paper looks very suspicious, I will admit that but I think we can all admit, the rumor mill in this small town has been crazy! I can imagine everyone looking at each other as possibly having something to do with Lindsey vanishing.

I am not a mod or administrater or whatever but can I ask if we all can just stay respectful of others opinions. There is no reason to say someone is sticking up for the responsible person when this person is not even a poi in the case. That is not right to do. We are all hear to find Lindsey and the person responsible, we can disagree respectfully, can't we? We are all adults?

I agree with researching everyone now from the mom to this Dale guy. Lets just do it.
Here is my list of people I suggest we research...

Kara
Melissa Baum
the last witness, the woman who worked with MB
Dale
JennO (sorry but your attitude makes me suspicious and the fact you are related to Karas ex who still has a relationship with the kids)
ML
Adults at the house the girls went swimming
Kara's brother
Kara's sister inlaw
Kara's old boyfriend
The Mayor
There are others but that is it for now.

[KarmaRoundUp]

This sure does not look good.

His Mom got a call for him from LE to do a phone interview,he was asleep,Mom calls LE back and says he left the home and gives LE his cell number.LE calls him and he says he was not working at BeeHive that Friday and Saturday but was working at his other job on June 26th even though he was spotted driving around town that Friday.

LE calls his other job and finds out he was on disciplinary leave from June 7th through June 27th.
OMG......

I have no idea whether or not this young man is involved in the disappearance of Lindsey Baum but ... I believe that LE were justified in their suspicions ... justified in searching the home/property where he resides.  I just do not understand what took them so long.

 

Janet

I agree

Unless we are to believe his boss at the campground lied,his exgirlfriend or current girlfriend lied,Melissa Baum lied about him following her,LE is lying about their suspicions and LE and the Judge lied,illegally,just to get this search warrant,the now 21 year old girl and her siblings all lied back in 2000,lied about being made to watch porn and lied about being held in a bedroom at the age of 12 while your babysitter tried to rape you,JenniferO lied about seeing Dale and his car at the Shell station during last night's search and his drivers door was working just fine(from witnesses that saw him and his car there).

I'm not going to apologize for having my suspicions about Dale Golder,not even if it turns out that all of the above is true because all I am doing is what I would do in any missing child case......no matter who is investigating it and no matter who is communicating with whom.
We all have opinions and are allowed to express them.
That is what I did above.

 

There was a witness sighting of this young man and his vehicle at the Shell station on the evening that Lindsey went missing???

From the getgo ... I have suspected that Lindsey stopped at the Shell station on her way home to rerieve the bike that had been left there earlier following the argument with her brother and ... met up with foul play.

I concede that my ongoing suspicions regarding Josh Baum has now wavered.

Karma ... you are right.  Logic dictates that EVERYBODY is not lying ... attempting to implicate Dale ... attempting to obstruct the investigation into the disappearance of a little girl.

Janet
 

Janet,Dale and his car was seen last night at the Shell station and his driver door was working just fine.My reason for posting that is because DD said Dale couldn't have done it with that white Del Sol car because the doors did not work and Dale would have had to push Lindsey through the sunroof.There is nothing wrong with Dale's car doors.

[MelissaMcCann]

not all of us are mechanically minded where we would know how to use a screw driver to start a car.  i worked at an auto parts store for 2 years and my dad was a mechanic for a gazillion years and i didnt even know that! 

her key was broken off at just the right spot that pliers couldnt get it out and nothing else could fit in. the locksmith couldnt make keys,, they couldnt find whatever code numbers where  needed to have a key made. finally they did find some however mb still couldnt get the key out of the ignition.  mb's car was not working well at all for a couple months prior to lb's disappearance. unfortunately she didnt know any friends who are mechanical nor do i. she asked to borrow my extra vehicle but i had it for sale and the fuel pump went out so she was able to find a local person who worked at the same place of employment and car pool with her to get to work.  when her entire family was at her house that weekend, her car was parked in front of the garage and it needed to be moved so her uncle worked on it and was able to get it going. she still doesnt drive it daily or long distances.

when she was being followed by the white car, which turned out to be dg's, she didnt know who he was. this occured a month AFTER lj went missing.

[doubledecker]

mb's car was NOT workin that nite as i WATCHED her uncle fix it on SUNDAY after lindsey went missing. i will finish addressing this in a while as well as LJ's room and what nite MB was followed

hi MM, I would like to know what was wrong with her car in the first place, according to YOU.. I would like to know what YOU have to say.  I know what someone else said but I no longer believe anything this person says as they have lied way too many times.

also when did it break. 

[Leroy]

snipped from Karma's post (thanks Karma and Momtective)...

Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur.

I have been trying to decide who Ralke is referring to......?

[MelissaMcCann]

self edit ^ when her entire family was there that weekend LJ went missing is what it should say

[Heidismom]

DD,
I noticed you were quick to say Dale would likely have gotten his doorhandles repaired by now, but assumed that MB's car would not have been repaired by July 31, & thenfore if it was running on July 31, it must have been running on June 26th?? Makes no sense to me.

[MelissaMcCann]

gonna go through a couple pages, take some notes, then address things,,,  baby just went to sleep so gonna stock my store then will be back on later

[doubledecker]

MM,
I saw that you were on today. Is MB positive that it was in fact DG that followed her? Does she remember the date? How long did he follow her? From what point to what point? Thank you!

I'm very curious about the date this happened 

In the SW it says it was July 31st just after midnight.

well I know they were following KM all over the place, going by their house and following her around town.  why was MB out at midnight on july 31, where dale was.  were they following him around that night as well.  if someone kept following people in my family around I think I might want to figure out why as well and see who they are.  I think this fits right in with other things MB and them wre doing at the time.  I will have to go through my board and emails and see when they were saying they were doing what. 

[Scandi]

Why is MM's statement being discounted?  I read her post to say MB's car was not drivable the evening Lindsey went missing until the Sunday after when she witnessed the uncle repair it.  What would the chances be she was using a screwdriver to start her car? 

[no rose colored glasses]

snipped from Karma's post (thanks Karma and Momtective)...

Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur.

I have been trying to decide who Ralke is referring to......?

Me too  He must be referring to Dale, right? Otherwise I haven't a clue.

[KarmaRoundUp]

If what it says is true in the SW, I can imagine how scared Melissa Baum was when he was following her that night  I just don't understand that at all, I know what it said in the SW, but I bet that woman was very upset, at least I would be 

Here is ONE of the things that jumped out at me on that search warrant

 MB has stated dale was following her around in her car, I would like to know how she was driving that car when she said it did not work... the ONLY reason I never really put MB high on my list of people to look at is because she had no car running, and it would be pretty impossible for her to hide a body if she had to drag it down the street and way out into the woods herself without a vehicle.  But now it comes out her car was actually running and she was driving it, because she herself stated dale was following her around town... so hmmm, if her car was actually running, she goes right up to the top of my list now.  This woman shows all the signs of someone guilty, the only thing that kept me from thinking she might be was I could not figure out how in the world she could hide a body if she had no vehicle.  Well, now we see she really did have a vehicle.  So back to MB and take a good look at her too.

Kara had stated that MB's car could not be driven because the key was broken off in the ignition.  So everyone assumed MB had no transportation of her own.  Because of this, I figured there is no way she could dispose of a body.  I do know that you can take a screwdriver and still twist the ignition even if the key is broken off in it, but I gave MB the benefit of the doubt because I assumed she probably did not know you could do this.  Now I really have to go back and wonder, how is she driving that car, when she herself says Dale was following her, if in fact her car would not drive?  We now see, yes she was driving it.  So again, another lie... her car was running, she was driving it, therefore, she was capable of hiding a body. 

After reading the search warrant, we also find that lindsey's swimsuit is missing. This is a little perplexing to say the least.  I have not had time to figure this out, but will be taking the time to do it now. 

If nothing else on that SW stands out to me, it is these two things that were obviously lied about for 3 months, that has me right back to square #1 and MB.. Being all the other underlying circumstance concerning MB, and some of those in emails to me directly from her, and statements made to me directly from KK, MM, and JennO, and other information I have concerning how all of mb's own family feels about her actions, and the information about how MB never wanted HO to come help search, and how she would never even so much as come out of the house to introduce herself, how she got mad at her sister for even requesting the services of HO, how she acts(although this alone would not be something we can know how anyone might act if in this situation, however in combination with everything else), all adds up to one really strange situation. 

Right now I am going to take ONE VERY HARD look at MB.  If she had access to a running vehicle, which now we know without a doubt she did, as she admits in the search warran when trying to point at Dale, then this changes everything about her ability to hide a body.  And when she says she "believe lindsey is right UNDER HER NOSE", I believe lindsey is. 

you have no idea the emails I have from MB... it took about the first two of them to start asking what the heck is wrong with her.  I ever ask MB the same thing.  It was so bizarre, I quit emailing her.  I thought the poor woman must be so unable to cope, she was acting like she could care less about lindsey, but I thought it was her way of coping and I did not wish to bother her.  But I clearly believe now it was NOT her way of coping, after talking to others, and NOW that I know for a fact her car was running and that she did IN FACT have the ability to hide a body... I have to agree with her when she says Lindsey is right under her nose.  I can see exactly how she could have hidden lindsey. 

might also make sense why lindsey's room is taped off as a "crime scene", which that never made sense to me either.  But it does now.

From my understanding Melissa's car was not running but maybe she got it fixed by the end of July when Dale was following her?Maybe?
I can't believe you would turn your attention on a victims Mama without fully investigating her situation when.....there is an obvious POI right under your nose.
Sorry DD but that's just the way I feel and think with the info that I have.

[no rose colored glasses]

Why is MM's statement being discounted?  I read her post to say MB's car was not drivable the evening Lindsey went missing until the Sunday after when she witnessed the uncle repair it.  What would the chances be she was using a screwdriver to start her car? 

Agreed, I sure would never have known about a screwdriver 

[Leroy]

snipped from Karma's post (thanks Karma and Momtective)...

Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur.

I have been trying to decide who Ralke is referring to......?

Me too  He must be referring to Dale, right? Otherwise I haven't a clue.

Or the Hardy guy that is mentioned    

[doubledecker]

That leaves me with my pool question.  Someone stated they fill it up for the summer as their well runs dry. When is it usually filled and what is the source of the water they use?  I want to confirm that it is an above ground pool, which I think I saw when they were searching the two properties.  I believe I saw an above ground round pool that looked to be at least 18' round possibly 21'.

Can anyone point me to any of the video or pictures from the search that shows the pool?

TIA

I have to go but want to give you my concerns about the statement that they fill up the pool for water as the well goes dry in the summer.  I as well own an above ground pool.  They take a lot of water.  Having lived in areas that do not get serviced by city water supply or sewage I do understand wells going dry.  I do not understand if the source to fill up the pool was the well, how you would not cause your well dry by filling it up which is why I asked when they fill it.  If they filled it up in the spring then MAYBE they could get it filled after giving the well a chance to get caught up as they were filling it.  Why stress the well to do this when you could truck water into tanks though? and if your well can pump out this amount of water in once shot there I  seriously doubt it would go dry in the summer.

A 4 foot high 18' pool takes 7,646 gallons of water to fill
A 52" high pool (4' 4") 18' pool takes 8,602 gallons.

If the pool is a 21 ft' pool the water required would be 9,106 gallons and 10,408 gallons respectively.

http://www.backyardcitypools.com/swimming-pools/Pool-Volume-Calculate.htm

If their well source is sufficient to fill up these then I would not think the well would go dry in the summer.

Once you fill a pool if you do not have it either on a salt or chlorine balance you get algae fast, very fast especially as the weather gets hotter.  You would also need a pump at minimum (a skimmer also if you seriously want to use the water instead of well water)  running to ensure that all the bugs, dust, leaves, pollen, etc get filtered out or it speeds up the algae and other goodies that start growing as well as change the PH level of the water so that it would give you serious issues if used for cooking or drinking.  The pump filter would need to be cleaned at least once a week and replaced at least twice in the summer, chemical levels checked weekly and leveled up or down depending on what your pool is doing , etc.  All this for a household water source? It is an uphill battle as the weather gets warmer and the pool water stays warm from the sun.  Even covering the pool does not stop things from going into the water.  We found a dead bird in our pool once and it was covered. The water from the pool could only be used for gray water I would think (flushing toilets is the only thing I would use it for) , so if they have lived there for many generations as the articles have stated you would think by now they would have either created a dug out for grey water usage, drilled for a second well,  or had tanks to truck in water for when their well was stressed.  JMO

the well is dry... they haul water.  the truck they found the 2 yr old black tape in is the truck they use to use for hauling the water.  I am not sure how they hauled it this summer but in 2008 they were using the truck with the tape but the transmission went out in that truck, so I am not sure what they hauled with in the summer of 2009.  but the pool is for water storage, not to swim in.  they have no water in their well in the summer.  the ground shifted and it caused the well to start going DRY in the summer.

[no rose colored glasses]

snipped from Karma's post (thanks Karma and Momtective)...

Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur.

I have been trying to decide who Ralke is referring to......?

Me too  He must be referring to Dale, right? Otherwise I haven't a clue.

Or the Hardy guy that is mentioned    

That's true, I don't know why things can't be simpler to understand  It could be Dale or Hardy.

[Leroy]

snipped from Karma's post (thanks Karma and Momtective)...

Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur.

I have been trying to decide who Ralke is referring to......?

Me too  He must be referring to Dale, right? Otherwise I haven't a clue.

Or the Hardy guy that is mentioned    

That's true, I don't know why things can't be simpler to understand  It could be Dale or Hardy.

well whoever he is talking about, it sure is a weird statement to make.

[no rose colored glasses]

Good post Tracygirl, and I sure hope your husband gets to feeling better soon, I know how men can be when sick 

[Tamikosmom]

This sure does not look good.

His Mom got a call for him from LE to do a phone interview,he was asleep,Mom calls LE back and says he left the home and gives LE his cell number.LE calls him and he says he was not working at BeeHive that Friday and Saturday but was working at his other job on June 26th even though he was spotted driving around town that Friday.

LE calls his other job and finds out he was on disciplinary leave from June 7th through June 27th.
OMG......

I have no idea whether or not this young man is involved in the disappearance of Lindsey Baum but ... I believe that LE were justified in their suspicions ... justified in searching the home/property where he resides.  I just do not understand what took them so long.

 

Janet

I agree

Unless we are to believe his boss at the campground lied,his exgirlfriend or current girlfriend lied,Melissa Baum lied about him following her,LE is lying about their suspicions and LE and the Judge lied,illegally,just to get this search warrant,the now 21 year old girl and her siblings all lied back in 2000,lied about being made to watch porn and lied about being held in a bedroom at the age of 12 while your babysitter tried to rape you,JenniferO lied about seeing Dale and his car at the Shell station during last night's search and his drivers door was working just fine(from witnesses that saw him and his car there).

I'm not going to apologize for having my suspicions about Dale Golder,not even if it turns out that all of the above is true because all I am doing is what I would do in any missing child case......no matter who is investigating it and no matter who is communicating with whom.
We all have opinions and are allowed to express them.
That is what I did above.

 

There was a witness sighting of this young man and his vehicle at the Shell station on the evening that Lindsey went missing???

From the getgo ... I have suspected that Lindsey stopped at the Shell station on her way home to rerieve the bike that had been left there earlier following the argument with her brother and ... met up with foul play.

I concede that my ongoing suspicions regarding Josh Baum has now wavered.

Karma ... you are right.  Logic dictates that EVERYBODY is not lying ... attempting to implicate Dale ... attempting to obstruct the investigation into the disappearance of a little girl.

Janet
 

Janet,Dale and his car was seen last night at the Shell station and his driver door was working just fine.My reason for posting that is because DD said Dale couldn't have done it with that white Del Sol car because the doors did not work and Dale would have had to push Lindsey through the sunroof.There is nothing wrong with Dale's car doors.

Karma

I misunderstood your words.  That misunderstanding cleared the morning cobwebs immediately ... no coffee necessary.

 

Janet
10:45 AM PT