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Author Topic: Lindsey Baum # 5 9/28/09 - 10/4/09  (Read 469435 times)
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« Reply #80 on: September 28, 2009, 12:20:43 PM »

 I am not trying to cause trouble, but a 10 o'clock curfew for a 10 year old. Maybe I'm old fashioned, who knows, but that would not have happened when my daughters were that age. Now if I knew that they were at a friend's home, and it was time to come home we would have picked them up. But I don't ever recall my kids out at 10pm at that age.
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« Reply #81 on: September 28, 2009, 12:21:42 PM »

http://www.helium.com/items/1407307-good-parenting-with-bipolar-disorder-is-possible This is an interesting article from a woman who is a bi-polar parent.
Thank-you,  very difficult, to say the least too deal with  ::MonkeyNoNo:
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #82 on: September 28, 2009, 12:27:05 PM »


Melissa McCann does not deny KONA's contention that Josh Baum has issues with agression.

Janet

++++++

JOSH BAUM:  ACCORDING TO MELISSA MCCANN


I have some questions!  Before you and MD hooked up and before MD was allowed custody he obviously must have been the better choice of two parents.  I'm curious to the amount of self education parents sought for a daughter with asbergers.  It is quite a struggle managing the physical and mental forms of this disability and also to navigate a medical world for treatment as well as goverment agencies.  This is such a rare form of of functioning autism I find it difficult to believe that MD and MB through you never had a discussion about support groups and help once the child with Asbergers enters school.  There are three support groups near McCleary that can help guide a parent.  JB has already entered the court system with his anti social fire starting and underlining aggression.  Being MB's friend she didn't confide in you (knowledge is power) her frustrations with JB because they were huge in the psychiatric world of getting a child help.  This seemed to be source of concern for Lindsey with what we know to date.  My space comments, running to the neighbors for help and calling 911.  Whoa monkey's, jump back.  Your a close friend now so I ask how mom is handeling the new school yr. for JB and pray due to his agressive, firestarting behaviors if he is in a behavior modification program and if the scholl will let him attend.  A frustrating loss may bring out even worse syptoms if not addressed.  If MB isn't in a support group I would be more than gratefull to direct her in the right and good diretion.



Mark would be the better person to address this but I will do my best as I am new to learning about aspergers. Aspergers, as most conditions affect people differently. JB and MD's daughter are as different as night and day. Also again, we just got the girls awarded to us August 25th. Prior to that they have been splitting time between their mother and us. MD and his family are from Olympia. Different cities, different schools, there really wasnt a reason to connect JB and MD's daughter. MD and his ex wife have researched aspergers, joined the different groups, fought to get an IEP, ect..  I know what MB goes through with JB and he has more issues than aspergers so we dont deal with anything that MB does. thanks for your concern regarding that but MB has been dealing with this issue for years.

Also, Mark is not the better parent but we do currently provide the best situation for the children.  The girls mom loves them wholeheartedly and we hope that her anger will not be a deterant in finding common ground when it comes to raising the girls.

regarding MB. She is doing what she can to help JB. She has the programs in place that need to be there and thank you for your concern
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #83 on: September 28, 2009, 12:37:03 PM »



As for JB, LJ, and MK all walking with out knowing who would spend the night where ect,,, this was a common occurrance for jb and JL to walk MK home so she didnt walk alone and then they would back together.   If LJ had stayed over then JB being a 12 yr old boy coming back home alone the short distance wasnt such a big deal.


Sorry something is not connecting, never has. I think the question lies with Kara for allowing Lindsey to walk home alone....Yes we can all say, if she knew then what she knows now....however, why would she allow this which leads me to ask first, did she allow this?

LB was sent to walk by herself when all along the plan has been to not have a girl walk home, as stated by MM. hmmmm something smells a bit hinky, don't ya think!
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« Reply #84 on: September 28, 2009, 01:15:11 PM »



As for JB, LJ, and MK all walking with out knowing who would spend the night where ect,,, this was a common occurrance for jb and JL to walk MK home so she didnt walk alone and then they would back together.   If LJ had stayed over then JB being a 12 yr old boy coming back home alone the short distance wasnt such a big deal.


Sorry something is not connecting, never has. I think the question lies with Kara for allowing Lindsey to walk home alone....Yes we can all say, if she knew then what she knows now....however, why would she allow this which leads me to ask first, did she allow this?

LB was sent to walk by herself when all along the plan has been to not have a girl walk home, as stated by MM. hmmmm something smells a bit hinky, don't ya think!
    Way wrong
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shortcake
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« Reply #85 on: September 28, 2009, 01:24:17 PM »

I do not know this poster and ... without backup would most likely disregard his/her words but ... according to DD ... a search warrant issued this past weekend in the Lindsey Baum case listing a floral bathing suit implies ... in my opinion ... some connection.  However ... considering the quad/three wheeler witness states that Lindsey was wearing her bathing suit ... not jeans and a hoodie ... I do not believe the sighting on the quad/three wheeler took place after 9:30 PM on the evening of June 26, 2009.

Janet

++++++

07-01-2009, 11:29 AM

... I had heard from a friend who works at the ORV park that someone thinks they saw Lindsey on one of the trails in Capital Forest on Saturday wearing a pink floral bathing suit and with a man on a quad or 3 wheeler. My friend said they've been doing searches in that area and checking every vehicle coming in and out as best they can.

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15126&page=16
Janet, I am still trying to find more, but the sighting was not that night, but Saturday.  I just cannot find it.  I see many posts of the LE searching the ORV park and I don't think LE would spend resources out there unless they gave it some credibility.  By the way, do you think it is possible someone else sent you that message from HO other than HO?  I walked that path HO suggested and determined it was not a likely escape route.  More likely only a dirt bike could maneuver it. Someone else was recently looking around at a spot near where another road came up from the left.  I believe it went down to N. Summit RD(not sure).  Two men on bikes spent some time looking around.  Maybe from one of the search parties, I don't know. I am not saying it is not what HO seen or his dogs followed, but I find it hard to believe she went up that trail that night or probably at any other time. JMO shortcake
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« Reply #86 on: September 28, 2009, 01:36:16 PM »

my humble opinion is that 10:00 PM is too late for children of that age group to be out wandering around, walking to each other's home etc...whether alone or with a group....too young!!! jmo...and if a child was at my house at that time of night or near that time of night, I would have taken her home myself or called her mom to come and get her...everyone is different, not trying to pass judgment, but I know what I would have done...If I would have sent her along alone, (which I would not have done.)I would have at least called to make sure that mom knew that she was walking home and for her to call me when she got home...
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« Reply #87 on: September 28, 2009, 01:41:28 PM »

MM stated it was a plan that JB would walk with the girls...She made it sound as though this had been done more then just this one time. If that was the case, then what was the plan if LB was to leave KK's house alone, would anyone walk with LB? Surely this has happened in the past and if there was a plan for one case there must be a plan for the other, I would think.....
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« Reply #88 on: September 28, 2009, 01:47:00 PM »

MM stated it was a plan that JB would walk with the girls...She made it sound as though this had been done more then just this one time. If that was the case, then what was the plan if LB was to leave KK's house alone, would anyone walk with LB? Surely this has happened in the past and if there was a plan for one case there must be a plan for the other, I would think.....

or vise versa...perhaps JB was not always willing or able to walk the other little girl home from LB's house...who went then? did LB walk her home and then walk back alone? 
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« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2009, 01:48:56 PM »

I do not know this poster and ... without backup would most likely disregard his/her words but ... according to DD ... a search warrant issued this past weekend in the Lindsey Baum case listing a floral bathing suit implies ... in my opinion ... some connection.  However ... considering the quad/three wheeler witness states that Lindsey was wearing her bathing suit ... not jeans and a hoodie ... I do not believe the sighting on the quad/three wheeler took place after 9:30 PM on the evening of June 26, 2009.

Janet

++++++

07-01-2009, 11:29 AM

... I had heard from a friend who works at the ORV park that someone thinks they saw Lindsey on one of the trails in Capital Forest on Saturday wearing a pink floral bathing suit and with a man on a quad or 3 wheeler. My friend said they've been doing searches in that area and checking every vehicle coming in and out as best they can.

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15126&page=16
Janet, I am still trying to find more, but the sighting was not that night, but Saturday.  I just cannot find it.  I see many posts of the LE searching the ORV park and I don't think LE would spend resources out there unless they gave it some credibility.  By the way, do you think it is possible someone else sent you that message from HO other than HO?  I walked that path HO suggested and determined it was not a likely escape route.  More likely only a dirt bike could maneuver it. Someone else was recently looking around at a spot near where another road came up from the left.  I believe it went down to N. Summit RD(not sure).  Two men on bikes spent some time looking around.  Maybe from one of the search parties, I don't know. I am not saying it is not what HO seen or his dogs followed, but I find it hard to believe she went up that trail that night or probably at any other time. JMO shortcake

In all probability ... the search of the ORV park was the result of a tip .. a Lindsey sighting.  Jim Mullins Creek was searched six times.  Why?  KONA's properties were search this weekend.  Why?

I have no reason to believe it was not Harry Oakes who responding to my email.  My suggestion went to his email address and ... was received in a relatively short period of time.  The signing of his name reflected that in correspondence from Oakes that KONAMOCHA shared on the forum.

Shortcake ...I have no way of knowing if Harry Oakes is credible but ... the way I interpret Oakes' confusing email is that a deceased Lindsey was taken in an open vehicle along Beck Street.  I would assume that a death scent would not have been easily detected by the dog/s if Lindsey had been in an enclosed vehicle.

I could be wrong with my take but ... prior to this email from Harry Oakes ... I was unaware that Oakes had conducted a search on Beck Street ... a street that could be easily accesed from Lindsey's home via First.

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #90 on: September 28, 2009, 01:49:50 PM »

I do not know this poster and ... without backup would most likely disregard his/her words but ... according to DD ... a search warrant issued this past weekend in the Lindsey Baum case listing a floral bathing suit implies ... in my opinion ... some connection.  However ... considering the quad/three wheeler witness states that Lindsey was wearing her bathing suit ... not jeans and a hoodie ... I do not believe the sighting on the quad/three wheeler took place after 9:30 PM on the evening of June 26, 2009.

Janet

++++++

07-01-2009, 11:29 AM

... I had heard from a friend who works at the ORV park that someone thinks they saw Lindsey on one of the trails in Capital Forest on Saturday wearing a pink floral bathing suit and with a man on a quad or 3 wheeler. My friend said they've been doing searches in that area and checking every vehicle coming in and out as best they can.

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15126&page=16

Hi, Janet.

I think the 26th was a Friday... so if the siting indeed did happen on Saturday it would be after she was apparently last seen.
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« Reply #91 on: September 28, 2009, 01:50:36 PM »

my humble opinion is that 10:00 PM is too late for children of that age group to be out wandering around, walking to each other's home etc...whether alone or with a group....too young!!! jmo...and if a child was at my house at that time of night or near that time of night, I would have taken her home myself or called her mom to come and get her...everyone is different, not trying to pass judgment, but I know what I would have done...If I would have sent her along alone, (which I would not have done.)I would have at least called to make sure that mom knew that she was walking home and for her to call me when she got home...
I understand your feeling about children out at 10:00.  But is was still very light out.  People from Calif usually remark about how green everything is and how late it stays light out.  I was walking on the outskirts of McCleary Saturday afternoon and heard gunshots.  Probably kids shooting cans.  No big deal.  If that happened around my home, I would think someone was being shot.  So I try to get in the locals mindset and not get hung up on my belief.  One lady was washing her car and I remarked how quiet it was.  Her remark: Yes, I love it.  Kinda says it all.  shortcake
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« Reply #92 on: September 28, 2009, 01:51:24 PM »

I do not know this poster and ... without backup would most likely disregard his/her words but ... according to DD ... a search warrant issued this past weekend in the Lindsey Baum case listing a floral bathing suit implies ... in my opinion ... some connection.  However ... considering the quad/three wheeler witness states that Lindsey was wearing her bathing suit ... not jeans and a hoodie ... I do not believe the sighting on the quad/three wheeler took place after 9:30 PM on the evening of June 26, 2009.

Janet

++++++

07-01-2009, 11:29 AM

... I had heard from a friend who works at the ORV park that someone thinks they saw Lindsey on one of the trails in Capital Forest on Saturday wearing a pink floral bathing suit and with a man on a quad or 3 wheeler. My friend said they've been doing searches in that area and checking every vehicle coming in and out as best they can.

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15126&page=16

Hi, Janet.

I think the 26th was a Friday... so if the siting indeed did happen on Saturday it would be after she was apparently last seen.

Oh, wait.... maybe you mean the person who reported the siting was mistaken, and it was actually the afternoon of the 26th... NOT on Saturday.  That makes sense>  SORRY!
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« Reply #93 on: September 28, 2009, 01:55:25 PM »

my humble opinion is that 10:00 PM is too late for children of that age group to be out wandering around, walking to each other's home etc...whether alone or with a group....too young!!! jmo...and if a child was at my house at that time of night or near that time of night, I would have taken her home myself or called her mom to come and get her...everyone is different, not trying to pass judgment, but I know what I would have done...If I would have sent her along alone, (which I would not have done.)I would have at least called to make sure that mom knew that she was walking home and for her to call me when she got home...
Most definitely, no way would I have left her walk alone, but I think what happens, you live in a small town, and feel safe, never thinking something bad could happen.
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« Reply #94 on: September 28, 2009, 01:56:40 PM »


thanks jademoff for clearing up how at least SOME OF THE RUMORS are getting out there.  People are just running in a frenzy.  This is getting dangerous for Kona and her family. 

I would hope the police are also out there and sand creek pond seeing why someone took a car out there last night and set it on fire.  It might be nothing, but again, it might have been someone trying to destroy evidence inside a vehicle


Could the burning of the car-taken to that location- have been a 'warning' for the family??  Scary stuff....and as Madibabe said, lots of hot heads out there.....with a redneck mentality.

I have no idea, but someone drove a car out there and set it on fire, down sand creek road.  Pretty weird. The fire trucks put the fire out and left.  Don't know what happened after that. 
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« Reply #95 on: September 28, 2009, 02:05:00 PM »

But kara had not lived in McCleary that long and she is from a larger town in Arizona, IIRC could someone so fast change a mind set? Although it was light out, does that really matter? It was late enough or dark enough for josh to be sent with the girls....Light, dark, late, early, does that really matter? There was the original plan of JB would walk with the girls so a girl would not walk alone..Someone must have first thought it was not ok for a girl to walk alone, so was she alone?

I lived in LA for a short time, I will never forget the street smarts I onced learned.
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« Reply #96 on: September 28, 2009, 02:18:34 PM »

I think its just part of being human to assume you will know how you would handle a situation should you end up in it. However, until you are actually in that exact position, you donít know how you will for sure. I always tell myself if someone comes into my store and tries to rob me, I will take the baseball bat to them and show them my truckerís mouth. But at that moment when itís happening, my fear may make me just cry and hand them over whatever they want.  So I feel itís a little unfair to make any judgments on what MB has done. I canít speak for her because I am not her but, I bet there are somethingís she wishes she had done differently.

I see that some of you disagree with curfew time, or how MB didnít call KK, ect.. Again here is something that you sound judgmental on. This is about finding Lindsey not how you disagree with the parenting. 

I said JB and LB walking MK home was a common occurrence. Not an Ďall the timeí occurrence. Again, it wasnít the original plan for LJ to walk back alone if the spending the night wasnít going to happen. If JB and LJ hadnít argued, and the person hadnít sent JB back home, then he would have been walking with her back home from MKís.  And as it has already been stated, something like a child getting abducted wasnít a thought from anyone in this town. Yes parents let their guard down but it doesnít make them bad parents. 
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« Reply #97 on: September 28, 2009, 02:19:59 PM »

blonde moment but what does IIRC stand for?  i figured out IMO, yah me.. lol
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« Reply #98 on: September 28, 2009, 02:20:44 PM »

But kara had not lived in McCleary that long and she is from a larger town in Arizona, IIRC could someone so fast change a mind set? Although it was light out, does that really matter? It was late enough or dark enough for josh to be sent with the girls....Light, dark, late, early, does that really matter? There was the original plan of JB would walk with the girls so a girl would not walk alone..Someone must have first thought it was not ok for a girl to walk alone, so was she alone?

I lived in LA for a short time, I will never forget the street smarts I onced learned.

Tracygirl, we may never know the answer to your question.  One thing is for certain, at some point she was not alone because a child doesn't just poof out of existence.
Believe it or not, there are still places in America that folks feel safe.  Safe for themselves and safe for their children.  While many of us have had experiences that defy that concept and/or that logic, the fact remains that some people still feel safe.  I live in such a community.  Only one road in.  People do not lock their homes, their cars, their sheds.  Children walk down the roads and ride their bikes in the summer time even after dark.  It is a "Charlie Brown" notion that all the talking in the world doesn't change.  Like so many other things in life, folks believe it can never happen to them.  They feel safe here, protected here, etc because everyone knows everyone.  When someone moves here, believe me, residents know more about them than the newcomers can probably remember about themselves. 
It is wise?  All I know for sure is it is what it is and I pray no harm comes to anyone here.  But then we have no bars, no 24 hour businesses, etc.  Do RSO live near here, yes.  Do I keep the community advised of this?  Yes.  Do they lock their doors or walk their children home from a neighbors?  No.
Until something bad happens, which I pray never does (although the probability of that is slim to none), these folks will continue to live as their parents raised them here, and their parents before them.
It simply is what it is.
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« Reply #99 on: September 28, 2009, 02:22:53 PM »

Oh and here is another thing that has bothered me. Kara stated that MB may have called, she was charging her phone and may not have heard it...my phone now and all of my phones in the past, and I have had several, requires the phone to be turned on to charge, never have I had to turn off my phone. Even if it runs out of battery power, it will ring once it has enough juice, which take about a few minutes.  Was her phone on the charger and where is the charger? Her house is small, can't be that far from the computer she said she was on.

Sister and Janet, you both have the magic touch of finding long lost posts. Where is the post which Kara wrote about LB arriving and leaving her house? Does she say who was home, where they were etc....And what time did MB finally get ahold of KK and what made Kara able to finally hear the phone?
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