Natalee Case Discussion #825 10/12/09 - 11/07/09

[Keepthefaith]

WAKE-UP WRECK

[Keepthefaith]

Keepthefaith and billb

Kyle Kingman did the measurements after the December 29th ROV dive.  Everybody was excited except John Silvetti.  This lead me to believe that something was up between John Silvetti and the Arubans prior to the trap every being located or following the sonar discovery on Christmas Day.  I do not believe that the clear images that emerged on the December 29th ROV dive was not anticipated.

Janet

+++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7thwe sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day. I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at. My heart broke for Dave and Beth.  Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th. I did not sleep. Few of us did. The only person able to remain completely objective, much to his credit, was John Silvetti. In hindsight, I am in awe of him for his wisdom(from past hard experiences) and strength. At the time, I thought he was nuts for not siding with the rest of us after the first dive.

Janet...a couple things stand out in kyle's own words above..
First: The 'we' in red above....
Appears to me that maybe persistence crew members WERE part of the sampling.....hmmm

we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured.



Don't know how much clearer it can get....

I also think the 'we sampled" is also explosive....since kyle laid out that it was only aruban divers that collected the contents of the cage on  7 Jan...and kyle was pissed that no americans were part of the collection...

I can't fathom PIMPING myself out in such a manner,as did Silvetti and his cohorts..Doesn't Silvetti have a daughter?How awful....

[billb's daughter]

Keepthefaith and billb

Kyle Kingman did the measurements after the December 29th ROV dive.  Everybody was excited except John Silvetti.  This lead me to believe that something was up between John Silvetti and the Arubans prior to the trap every being located or following the sonar discovery on Christmas Day.  I do not believe that the clear images that emerged on the December 29th ROV dive was not anticipated.

Janet

+++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7thwe sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day. I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at. My heart broke for Dave and Beth.  Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th. I did not sleep. Few of us did. The only person able to remain completely objective, much to his credit, was John Silvetti. In hindsight, I am in awe of him for his wisdom(from past hard experiences) and strength. At the time, I thought he was nuts for not siding with the rest of us after the first dive.

Janet...a couple things stand out in kyle's own words above..
First: The 'we' in red above....
Appears to me that maybe persistence crew members WERE part of the sampling.....hmmm

we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured.



Don't know how much clearer it can get....

I also think the 'we sampled" is also explosive....since kyle laid out that it was only aruban divers that collected the contents of the cage on  7 Jan...and kyle was pissed that no americans were part of the collection...

I can't fathom PIMPING myself out in such a manner,as did Silvetti and his cohorts..Doesn't Silvetti have a daughter?How awful....

It is despicable - no doubt...
Greed must be the motivator...
And you along with others have shown that he has no morals in his business deals with stockholders...

[Tamikosmom]

Keepthefaith and billb

Kyle Kingman did the measurements after the December 29th ROV dive.  Everybody was excited except John Silvetti.  This lead me to believe that something was up between John Silvetti and the Arubans prior to the trap every being located or following the sonar discovery on Christmas Day.  I do not believe that the clear images that emerged on the December 29th ROV dive was not anticipated.

Janet

+++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7thwe sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day. I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at. My heart broke for Dave and Beth.  Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th. I did not sleep. Few of us did. The only person able to remain completely objective, much to his credit, was John Silvetti. In hindsight, I am in awe of him for his wisdom(from past hard experiences) and strength. At the time, I thought he was nuts for not siding with the rest of us after the first dive.

Janet...a couple things stand out in kyle's own words above..
First: The 'we' in red above....
Appears to me that maybe persistence crew members WERE part of the sampling.....hmmm

billb

I don't think so.  There was only one American diver ... the rest were Arubans.  Despite what he said on the Dateline special ... Tim Trahan did not see anything on the December 30th visual dive.  Apparently ... his vision was impaired and he returned to the ship almost immediately because he was running out of air ... leaving the Aruban divers with the trap.

Tim Trahan was not on board the Persistence during the January 7th recovery dive.

Sampling could have taken place by the Arubans divers on December 30th as well as on January 7th.

The excitement was the result of the December 29th ROV only dive ... prior to the visual dive of December 30th.  I do believe that the "we" could have been Tim Miller, Kyle Kingman and the Dateline crew ... maybe Ryan Poff.

Janet

+++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline already began scripting a story that we found Natalee on the 29th of Dec. Obviously this was halted on Dec 30th.

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

[billb's daughter]

Just you and me KTF...
Time to say Good Night to you and all Good Monkeys...
Justice for Natalee is near...I feel it!
I'll go back into the rafters and wait to see your sign off and Texasmom's picture of Natalee...

[Keepthefaith]

Keepthefaith and billb

Kyle Kingman did the measurements after the December 29th ROV dive.  Everybody was excited except John Silvetti.  This lead me to believe that something was up between John Silvetti and the Arubans prior to the trap every being located or following the sonar discovery on Christmas Day.  I do not believe that the clear images that emerged on the December 29th ROV dive was not anticipated.

Janet

+++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7thwe sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day. I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at. My heart broke for Dave and Beth.  Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th. I did not sleep. Few of us did. The only person able to remain completely objective, much to his credit, was John Silvetti. In hindsight, I am in awe of him for his wisdom(from past hard experiences) and strength. At the time, I thought he was nuts for not siding with the rest of us after the first dive.

Janet...a couple things stand out in kyle's own words above..
First: The 'we' in red above....
Appears to me that maybe persistence crew members WERE part of the sampling.....hmmm

we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured.



Don't know how much clearer it can get....

I also think the 'we sampled" is also explosive....since kyle laid out that it was only aruban divers that collected the contents of the cage on  7 Jan...and kyle was pissed that no americans were part of the collection...

I can't fathom PIMPING myself out in such a manner,as did Silvetti and his cohorts..Doesn't Silvetti have a daughter?How awful....

It is despicable - no doubt...
Greed must be the motivator...
And you along with others have shown that he has no morals in his business deals with stockholders...

That would be Schaeffer but,Silvetti has none as well!

[Keepthefaith]

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

GOODNIGHT & GOD BLESS

billb, Tamikosmom

KEEPTHEFAITH

UNTIL JUSTICE IS SERVED

 


P.S. YOU TO MADRINA..

[billb's daughter]

Keepthefaith and billb

Kyle Kingman did the measurements after the December 29th ROV dive.  Everybody was excited except John Silvetti.  This lead me to believe that something was up between John Silvetti and the Arubans prior to the trap every being located or following the sonar discovery on Christmas Day.  I do not believe that the clear images that emerged on the December 29th ROV dive was not anticipated.

Janet

+++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7thwe sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day. I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at. My heart broke for Dave and Beth.  Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th. I did not sleep. Few of us did. The only person able to remain completely objective, much to his credit, was John Silvetti. In hindsight, I am in awe of him for his wisdom(from past hard experiences) and strength. At the time, I thought he was nuts for not siding with the rest of us after the first dive.

Janet...a couple things stand out in kyle's own words above..
First: The 'we' in red above....
Appears to me that maybe persistence crew members WERE part of the sampling.....hmmm

billb

I don't think so.  There was only one American diver ... the rest were Arubans.  Despite what he said on the Dateline special ... Tim Trahan did not see anything on the December 30th visual dive.  Apparently ... his vision was impaired and he returned to the ship almost immediately because he was running out of air ... leaving the Aruban divers with the trap.

Tim Trahan was not on board the Persistence during the January 7th recovery dive.

Sampling could have taken place by the Arubans divers on December 30th as well as on January 7th.

The excitement was the result of the December 29th ROV only dive ... prior to the visual dive of December 30th.  I do believe that the "we" could have been Tim Miller, Kyle Kingman and the Dateline crew ... maybe Ryan Poff.

Janet

+++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline already began scripting a story that we found Natalee on the 29th of Dec. Obviously this was halted on Dec 30th.

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

Janet,
I extracted this from your post above...
Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured.

That is what I was pointing out....
I know later kyle stated there was no american diver(s) onboard Jan 7...but doesn't the above contradict that statement?
 

[Tamikosmom]

Just you and me KTF...
Time to say Good Night to you and all Good Monkeys...
Justice for Natalee is near...I feel it!
I'll go back into the rafters and wait to see your sign off and Texasmom's picture of Natalee...

I'm still kere billb.

 

Good Night All.
Janet
10:15 PM

[Tamikosmom]

Keepthefaith and billb

Kyle Kingman did the measurements after the December 29th ROV dive.  Everybody was excited except John Silvetti.  This lead me to believe that something was up between John Silvetti and the Arubans prior to the trap every being located or following the sonar discovery on Christmas Day.  I do not believe that the clear images that emerged on the December 29th ROV dive was not anticipated.

Janet

+++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7thwe sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day. I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at. My heart broke for Dave and Beth.  Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th. I did not sleep. Few of us did. The only person able to remain completely objective, much to his credit, was John Silvetti. In hindsight, I am in awe of him for his wisdom(from past hard experiences) and strength. At the time, I thought he was nuts for not siding with the rest of us after the first dive.

Janet...a couple things stand out in kyle's own words above..
First: The 'we' in red above....
Appears to me that maybe persistence crew members WERE part of the sampling.....hmmm

billb

I don't think so.  There was only one American diver ... the rest were Arubans.  Despite what he said on the Dateline special ... Tim Trahan did not see anything on the December 30th visual dive.  Apparently ... his vision was impaired and he returned to the ship almost immediately because he was running out of air ... leaving the Aruban divers with the trap.

Tim Trahan was not on board the Persistence during the January 7th recovery dive.

Sampling could have taken place by the Arubans divers on December 30th as well as on January 7th.

The excitement was the result of the December 29th ROV only dive ... prior to the visual dive of December 30th.  I do believe that the "we" could have been Tim Miller, Kyle Kingman and the Dateline crew ... maybe Ryan Poff.

Janet

+++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline already began scripting a story that we found Natalee on the 29th of Dec. Obviously this was halted on Dec 30th.

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

Janet,
I extracted this from your post above...
Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured.

That is what I was pointing out....
I know later kyle stated there was no american diver(s) onboard Jan 7...but doesn't the above contradict that statement?
 

GOOD CATCH!

When I consider the other post ... that states that Tim Trahan was not present on the January 7th recover dive ... I believe that Kyle Kingman was referring to the Aruban divers who had been working along side the Persistence crew in the undertaking to locate the trap/cage.

I could be wrong.

Janet

[billb's daughter]

Just you and me KTF...
Time to say Good Night to you and all Good Monkeys...
Justice for Natalee is near...I feel it!
I'll go back into the rafters and wait to see your sign off and Texasmom's picture of Natalee...

I'm still kere billb.

 

Good Night All.
Janet
10:15 PM

Good Night Janet....

[Tamikosmom]

WOW!

Look at the above stack.  Just call me billb.

 

I am off.

Janet

[billb's daughter]

Good Night billb, Tamikosmom, Magnolia and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.
 

[texasmom]

I finally finished the transcript of Dana's show on Feb 13, 2008 with Beth Holloway, Peter R. DeVries, Art Wood, Mike McIntyre, a call in from Red at the end of the show...along with a couple other callers.

If you'd like to read it, here's the link:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6341.new#new

[texasmom]

Dateline and Tim Miller left the Persistence on January 1, 2008.

Janet

++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kermit - scaredmonkey.net

Thanks Janet...
The onboard conversation between dolf-mos-john s. after the 7 Jan collection by aruba only divers...
dolf/mos----to john...
Ok, we cleaned out the cage.....now go map search the deeper quads we laid out - tell the crew a tip puts Natalee in those areas....when you get back in post, see paulass for your new business license....

Who spoke with Silvetti after the first dive to get Tim Miller & Dateline off the boat?

1.Trahan
2.ALE/Trahan
3ALE/Richardson

anyone?????

I meant to say  "Mos/ALE"

I was wondering if there was some type of brail emoticon you were using,cause i sure as hell couldn't see anything.........

 

now that's funny...I don't care who ya are!   

[texasmom]

billb

TIM MILLER - THE LIABILITY

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee. When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive.

Kyle Kingman: Mr. Red shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th.

Kyle Kingman:   After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

I wannna know,beyond a shadow of a doubt,who Mr Red Shirt is...This isn't Reservoir Dogs for pete's sake....

ME TOO!  And I want convincing proof too...please.   

 

[billb's daughter]

Keepthefaith and billb

Kyle Kingman did the measurements after the December 29th ROV dive.  Everybody was excited except John Silvetti.  This lead me to believe that something was up between John Silvetti and the Arubans prior to the trap every being located or following the sonar discovery on Christmas Day.  I do not believe that the clear images that emerged on the December 29th ROV dive was not anticipated.

Janet

+++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7thwe sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day. I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at. My heart broke for Dave and Beth.  Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th. I did not sleep. Few of us did. The only person able to remain completely objective, much to his credit, was John Silvetti. In hindsight, I am in awe of him for his wisdom(from past hard experiences) and strength. At the time, I thought he was nuts for not siding with the rest of us after the first dive.

Janet...a couple things stand out in kyle's own words above..
First: The 'we' in red above....
Appears to me that maybe persistence crew members WERE part of the sampling.....hmmm

billb

I don't think so.  There was only one American diver ... the rest were Arubans.  Despite what he said on the Dateline special ... Tim Trahan did not see anything on the December 30th visual dive.  Apparently ... his vision was impaired and he returned to the ship almost immediately because he was running out of air ... leaving the Aruban divers with the trap.

Tim Trahan was not on board the Persistence during the January 7th recovery dive.

Sampling could have taken place by the Arubans divers on December 30th as well as on January 7th.

The excitement was the result of the December 29th ROV only dive ... prior to the visual dive of December 30th.  I do believe that the "we" could have been Tim Miller, Kyle Kingman and the Dateline crew ... maybe Ryan Poff.

Janet

+++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline already began scripting a story that we found Natalee on the 29th of Dec. Obviously this was halted on Dec 30th.

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

Janet,
I extracted this from your post above...
Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured.

That is what I was pointing out....
I know later kyle stated there was no american diver(s) onboard Jan 7...but doesn't the above contradict that statement?
 

GOOD CATCH!

When I consider the other post ... that states that Tim Trahan was not present on the January 7th recover dive ... I believe that Kyle Kingman was referring to the Aruban divers who had been working along side the Persistence crew in the undertaking to locate the trap/cage.

I could be wrong.

Janet

Just seems hinky to me that kyle would use "we" when referring to aruba only divers...he was pretty upset that aruba only divers collected the contents on the Jan 7 dive...and referred to the collection as - by aruba only divers...I read kyle's words in this instance that 'we' referred to more than just ROV video...
And one more thing to chew on.....
Why hasn't the ROV videos been released? I believe kyle said he, Louis, and Tim T have copies...
I hope our FBI are investigating the ROV video...

[texasmom]

I'm off to see what's in the papers before I call it a night!   


Thanks for the laughs KTF...I needed them!   

Madrina... 

Good to see you billb!   

[billb's daughter]

Good Night billb, texasmom and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

[texasmom]

Keepthefaith and billb

Kyle Kingman did the measurements after the December 29th ROV dive.  Everybody was excited except John Silvetti.  This lead me to believe that something was up between John Silvetti and the Arubans prior to the trap every being located or following the sonar discovery on Christmas Day.  I do not believe that the clear images that emerged on the December 29th ROV dive was not anticipated.

Janet

+++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7thwe sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day. I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at. My heart broke for Dave and Beth.  Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th. I did not sleep. Few of us did. The only person able to remain completely objective, much to his credit, was John Silvetti. In hindsight, I am in awe of him for his wisdom(from past hard experiences) and strength. At the time, I thought he was nuts for not siding with the rest of us after the first dive.

Janet...a couple things stand out in kyle's own words above..
First: The 'we' in red above....
Appears to me that maybe persistence crew members WERE part of the sampling.....hmmm

billb

I don't think so.  There was only one American diver ... the rest were Arubans.  Despite what he said on the Dateline special ... Tim Trahan did not see anything on the December 30th visual dive.  Apparently ... his vision was impaired and he returned to the ship almost immediately because he was running out of air ... leaving the Aruban divers with the trap.

Tim Trahan was not on board the Persistence during the January 7th recovery dive.

Sampling could have taken place by the Arubans divers on December 30th as well as on January 7th.

The excitement was the result of the December 29th ROV only dive ... prior to the visual dive of December 30th.  I do believe that the "we" could have been Tim Miller, Kyle Kingman and the Dateline crew ... maybe Ryan Poff.

Janet

+++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline already began scripting a story that we found Natalee on the 29th of Dec. Obviously this was halted on Dec 30th.

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

Janet,
I extracted this from your post above...
Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured.

That is what I was pointing out....
I know later kyle stated there was no american diver(s) onboard Jan 7...but doesn't the above contradict that statement?
 

GOOD CATCH!

When I consider the other post ... that states that Tim Trahan was not present on the January 7th recover dive ... I believe that Kyle Kingman was referring to the Aruban divers who had been working along side the Persistence crew in the undertaking to locate the trap/cage.

I could be wrong.

Janet

Just seems hinky to me that kyle would use "we" when referring to aruba only divers...he was pretty upset that aruba only divers collected the contents on the Jan 7 dive...and referred to the collection as - by aruba only divers...I read kyle's words in this instance that 'we' referred to more than just ROV video...
And one more thing to chew on.....
Why hasn't the ROV videos been released? I believe kyle said he, Louis, and Tim T have copies...
I hope our FBI are investigating the ROV video...

Me too!  I hope some agency that can and will act on it is investigating ALL OF IT!   

If they are, it sure is taking a long time.