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Author Topic: Lindsey Baum # 7 1/27/10 - 4/6/11  (Read 323326 times)
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« Reply #280 on: April 18, 2010, 04:16:45 PM »

The following is part of a report from a 2006 child abduction & murder study. If we consider what might be the worst case scenario, that Lindsey was abducted and killed, this report may give us some insight.


http://www.atg.wa.gov/page.aspx?id=2354

http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles/Another/Supporting_Law_Enforcement/Homicide_Investigation_Tracking_System_(HITS)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIReport-Summary.pdf


That's an interesting report, and thank you for posting that. I'm looking at the age range, that's around my age (I'm 26), so I went to school with those in that age range. It's something that I've been looking at for the past couple of months as well, regarding her last seen location and I kind of have a theory but I don't have anything really strong to back up what I have looked into. I will work with these statistics and see what I can come up with.


(I tried to cut out some of the quoted above to save space, hop I did it properly)

Jademoff, I would be interested to know your theory. Sharing ideas and theories with others is what gets those wheels turning. 

I don't think a forum is always the best place to do that though, for reasons I'm sure we can all speculate. Does Scared Monkeys have a chat room?
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« Reply #281 on: April 18, 2010, 04:41:14 PM »

I don't want to just start posting names of people up, because more than anything that could hurt the case. I think I may have a start of something, I just need to look into specifics to back up my theory, and then after that I'm going to get more in depth.
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« Reply #282 on: April 18, 2010, 05:12:17 PM »

I concur Jademoff, we don't want to hurt the case.

Here's another thing found in the full report I mentioned a few posts back, it may give an idea on where to look for Lindsey IF she is among the rare cases she was abducted and killed. From pages 54-56 of the report

The child abduction killers chose rural areas for the body disposal location in 52.6% of the cases
Killers conceal the victim's body in 55.4% of the cases

On another topic, an interesting find on page 60 about witnesses: 32.9% of the cases studied had unknowing witnesses; people who saw some aspect of the crime but at the time did not realize that they were witnessing part of a crime/abduction


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« Reply #283 on: April 18, 2010, 05:20:52 PM »

I concur Jademoff, we don't want to hurt the case.

Here's another thing found in the full report I mentioned a few posts back, it may give an idea on where to look for Lindsey IF she is among the rare cases she was abducted and killed. From pages 54-56 of the report

The child abduction killers chose rural areas for the body disposal location in 52.6% of the cases
Killers conceal the victim's body in 55.4% of the cases

On another topic, an interesting find on page 60 about witnesses: 32.9% of the cases studied had unknowing witnesses; people who saw some aspect of the crime but at the time did not realize that they were witnessing part of a crime/abduction




Just a little off topic, are you also from the Grays Harbor area?
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« Reply #284 on: April 18, 2010, 05:27:06 PM »


SELF EDIT MY PREVIOUS POST
ooops that should read , I am NOW wondering, not NOT wondering... in red below


I've always thought about the possibility that Lindsey could have been hit by a car. Do any of you remember the Erica Baker case? This article has a pretty good summary
http://www.whiotv.com/news/15244175/detail.html

Lindsey's disappearance has always reminded me of Erica's. While it seems like someone would have seen or heard something if Lindsey were hit by a car there's still the chance that it could have happened. It took years before someone came forward about Erica.

I have wondered if this could have happened... I have information that at least a couple of people had someone tell them this is what happened. however, I have no idea how this all started...so perhaps different people are getting the same info from the ORIGINAL same source. 

I am not wondering(should say I am NOW wondering) if perhaps the ford taurus might have hit her?  I have mostly heard from people it was a "truck" who hit her, but have been told it was a "car"... now we have a ford taurus parked weird at that location with the door open and the driver not seen.  so I am trying to figure out who owns this car, and why was it parked that way right by where lindsey is said to have last been seen by witness #2...the blue van was also right there in that area at the same time. 

So just trying to go through this and see if there is anything that might be connected to the disappearance of Lindsey.

Was the information about the car being parked there in an article, I haven't seen this anywhere?

no, it is info that was turned in at the beginning of the case... but not posted about.  we are not working on this info trying to figure out who these vehicles belong to.
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« Reply #285 on: April 18, 2010, 05:28:46 PM »

self edit... did it again ugh... wrote NOT instead of NOW... edit below in red ***I REALLY need an edit button haha


SELF EDIT MY PREVIOUS POST
ooops that should read , I am NOW wondering, not NOT wondering... in red below


I've always thought about the possibility that Lindsey could have been hit by a car. Do any of you remember the Erica Baker case? This article has a pretty good summary
http://www.whiotv.com/news/15244175/detail.html

Lindsey's disappearance has always reminded me of Erica's. While it seems like someone would have seen or heard something if Lindsey were hit by a car there's still the chance that it could have happened. It took years before someone came forward about Erica.

I have wondered if this could have happened... I have information that at least a couple of people had someone tell them this is what happened. however, I have no idea how this all started...so perhaps different people are getting the same info from the ORIGINAL same source. 

I am not wondering(should say I am NOW wondering) if perhaps the ford taurus might have hit her?  I have mostly heard from people it was a "truck" who hit her, but have been told it was a "car"... now we have a ford taurus parked weird at that location with the door open and the driver not seen.  so I am trying to figure out who owns this car, and why was it parked that way right by where lindsey is said to have last been seen by witness #2...the blue van was also right there in that area at the same time. 

So just trying to go through this and see if there is anything that might be connected to the disappearance of Lindsey.

Was the information about the car being parked there in an article, I haven't seen this anywhere?

no, it is info that was turned in at the beginning of the case... but not posted about.  we are NOW working on this info trying to figure out who these vehicles belong to.
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« Reply #286 on: April 18, 2010, 05:33:14 PM »

self edit... did it again ugh... wrote NOT instead of NOW... edit below in red ***I REALLY need an edit button haha


SELF EDIT MY PREVIOUS POST
ooops that should read , I am NOW wondering, not NOT wondering... in red below


I've always thought about the possibility that Lindsey could have been hit by a car. Do any of you remember the Erica Baker case? This article has a pretty good summary
http://www.whiotv.com/news/15244175/detail.html

Lindsey's disappearance has always reminded me of Erica's. While it seems like someone would have seen or heard something if Lindsey were hit by a car there's still the chance that it could have happened. It took years before someone came forward about Erica.

I have wondered if this could have happened... I have information that at least a couple of people had someone tell them this is what happened. however, I have no idea how this all started...so perhaps different people are getting the same info from the ORIGINAL same source. 

I am not wondering(should say I am NOW wondering) if perhaps the ford taurus might have hit her?  I have mostly heard from people it was a "truck" who hit her, but have been told it was a "car"... now we have a ford taurus parked weird at that location with the door open and the driver not seen.  so I am trying to figure out who owns this car, and why was it parked that way right by where lindsey is said to have last been seen by witness #2...the blue van was also right there in that area at the same time. 

So just trying to go through this and see if there is anything that might be connected to the disappearance of Lindsey.

Was the information about the car being parked there in an article, I haven't seen this anywhere?

no, it is info that was turned in at the beginning of the case... but not posted about.  we are NOW working on this info trying to figure out who these vehicles belong to.

Does anyone know what decade Taurus it is?
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« Reply #287 on: April 18, 2010, 05:42:48 PM »

Sorry if I'm over-posting, I've been reading this case on here since the get-go and now that I can post I'm a bit out of control. 

Possible scenarios I'm throwing out there for what could have happened to Lindsey:

Ran Away
Accident caused by Lindsey: lost in woods, etc.
Accidental injury/death caused by someone else: hit by vehicle, fight led to injury/death, etc.
Abducted by stranger/killed
Abducted by stranger/alive
Abducted by family/killed
Abducted by family/alive
Drug/alcohol overdose
Killed by someone she knew: family, acquaintance, peers (why? rage, jealousy...?)
Victim of human trafficking

What else could have happened? Please add your ideas. 

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« Reply #288 on: April 18, 2010, 05:44:30 PM »

I concur Jademoff, we don't want to hurt the case.

Here's another thing found in the full report I mentioned a few posts back, it may give an idea on where to look for Lindsey IF she is among the rare cases she was abducted and killed. From pages 54-56 of the report

The child abduction killers chose rural areas for the body disposal location in 52.6% of the cases
Killers conceal the victim's body in 55.4% of the cases

On another topic, an interesting find on page 60 about witnesses: 32.9% of the cases studied had unknowing witnesses; people who saw some aspect of the crime but at the time did not realize that they were witnessing part of a crime/abduction




Just a little off topic, are you also from the Grays Harbor area?

Yes Ma'am!
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« Reply #289 on: April 18, 2010, 05:47:23 PM »

I concur Jademoff, we don't want to hurt the case.

Here's another thing found in the full report I mentioned a few posts back, it may give an idea on where to look for Lindsey IF she is among the rare cases she was abducted and killed. From pages 54-56 of the report

The child abduction killers chose rural areas for the body disposal location in 52.6% of the cases
Killers conceal the victim's body in 55.4% of the cases

On another topic, an interesting find on page 60 about witnesses: 32.9% of the cases studied had unknowing witnesses; people who saw some aspect of the crime but at the time did not realize that they were witnessing part of a crime/abduction




Just a little off topic, are you also from the Grays Harbor area?

Yes Ma'am!

I live in Shelton and I haven't heard about or read about anything recent involving Lindsey's case. Is there anything new that you've heard within the last week? How is the investigation going?
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« Reply #290 on: April 18, 2010, 05:52:37 PM »

I concur Jademoff, we don't want to hurt the case.

Here's another thing found in the full report I mentioned a few posts back, it may give an idea on where to look for Lindsey IF she is among the rare cases she was abducted and killed. From pages 54-56 of the report

The child abduction killers chose rural areas for the body disposal location in 52.6% of the cases
Killers conceal the victim's body in 55.4% of the cases

On another topic, an interesting find on page 60 about witnesses: 32.9% of the cases studied had unknowing witnesses; people who saw some aspect of the crime but at the time did not realize that they were witnessing part of a crime/abduction




Just a little off topic, are you also from the Grays Harbor area?

Yes Ma'am!

I live in Shelton and I haven't heard about or read about anything recent involving Lindsey's case. Is there anything new that you've heard within the last week? How is the investigation going?

I've heard as much as you have 
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« Reply #291 on: April 18, 2010, 05:56:55 PM »

My brain is on overload. I shall return in a few hours.
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« Reply #292 on: April 19, 2010, 06:38:08 PM »

So I think I might have found a connection, and this is based off if the reports by Harry Oakes are legit (still something I'm on the fence with, because if Melissa didn't want to have anything to do with him being involved in the investigation, how did he get articles for his dog to pick up Lindsey's scent from, and also did he have permission from local LE to be involved on top of that, because he is retired LE himself, and he knows better than to just jump into things), and still digging further to see if this connection also has a connection around 6th street also.
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« Reply #293 on: April 19, 2010, 08:53:26 PM »

So I think I might have found a connection, and this is based off if the reports by Harry Oakes are legit (still something I'm on the fence with, because if Melissa didn't want to have anything to do with him being involved in the investigation, how did he get articles for his dog to pick up Lindsey's scent from, and also did he have permission from local LE to be involved on top of that, because he is retired LE himself, and he knows better than to just jump into things), and still digging further to see if this connection also has a connection around 6th street also.

hi jademoff, amanda, mb's sister is actually the one who contracted with HO..mb wanted nothing to do with him... He went through amanda for everything.

if you are trying to match up something and need some info just let me know, I can most likely help you.  you can email me if you need some info to help with whatever you are going with which connects with the HO report..  keysring@yahoo.com
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« Reply #294 on: April 19, 2010, 09:00:12 PM »


Jademoff wrote:

Does anyone know what decade Taurus it is?


______________

This car was a early 90s Ford taurus kind of a tan color.  It was most likely an aftermarket paint color as it did not match factory colors... there was something significant about the bumper
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« Reply #295 on: April 19, 2010, 10:08:51 PM »

It might be helpful to have a profile of Lindsey. This could give us clues about what happened to her. These are posts, quotes and statements from articles to help us get a sense of who Lindsey is. These are in no particular order. I've provided the links to the various articles and posts where these were found.

We should consider that these are the only perceptions and opinions of Lindsey that we have been made privy too, so we can only skim the surface. If anyone has anything to add please do not hesitate to do so. None of this should be used to pass judgement on Lindsey's character. The purpose of this is to understand how others view Lindsey, to find her weaknesses that someone may have preyed on, give insight into what someone's purpose might have been to take or harm Lindsey, and to try and put ourselves into Lindsey's shoes and imagine her thoughts and actions the night she disappeared.


Lindsey had been planning to celebrate her upcoming July 7 birthday by going with a group of friends to the new "Harry Potter" movie a few days later
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=2

Mother believes her daughter would never have willingly gotten into a stranger's car.
"If somebody grabbed her she would have put up a fight," she said. "She would definitely scream."
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49511367.html

...outgoing, talkative and mature for her age. She loved to read and write and had big plans for her future.
"She insisted when she grows up she's going to be an author and an illustrator and a veterinarian," (quote by Melissa Baum)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=1

Michaela & Lindsey were “almost inseparable” and loved to spend time together talking about “10-year-old girl stuff, boys and music, school occasionally.” (quote by Kara)

Lindsey is a “chatterbox.” “She’s very, very talkative,” “One of those girls who only takes a breath when she absolutely has to.” (Quote by Kara)

 “a smart little girl.”
“I just don’t see her willingly getting in a stranger’s car, she’s too smart for that.” (quotes by Linda Cunningham, owner of McCleary Video)

"Lindsey’s a very outgoing, very independent girl”  “She’s socially active in her peer group.” (quotes by Undersheriff Rick Scott)

http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html

Lindsey is afraid of the dark
Lindsey was known to not always answer her phone and on more then one occasion try to talk someone into letting her stay over and notifying her mom was not a top priority
(found in Kara's posts) http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=6810;sa=showPosts

Melissa Baum said Lindsey’s birthday wish was for a digital camera so she could upload pictures to her computer.

Lindsey was in Girl Scouts. She went to church at the Evergreen Christian
Center in McCleary, an offshoot of a larger church in west Olympia. She
sometimes worked the front counter at Baum’s store in Elma, a “dollar
store.”

She didn’t spend much time watching television but she
loved using the computer, including the popular social networking site
MySpace and hanging with her friends, according to her family.

MySpace.com lists two Lindsey Baums in McCleary with MySpace pages.

One, with a picture of Lindsey’s pet German Shepherd on the page, is marked
“private.” It lists her mood as “adored” and the name of her account as
“DISTURBED.” But it gives no other public information.

A second MySpace account is more public. Her nickname there is TWILIGHT FREAK.
She loved the popular “Twilight” series of books, love stories about
teen-age vampires. And Stephen King novels. And S.E Hinton, who wrote
“The Outsiders.”

She listed her best friends as her personal heroes. And said she wants to have children “someday.”

She also described herself a little older — 13 years old, instead of 10. And taller — 5-foot-2 instead of her 4-foot-9 stature.

Within two hours of creating this second MySpace account in May, Baum
allegedly wrote: “I’ve been getting a lot of nightmares lately and I
have this bad feeling that something bad is gonna happen.”

Baum attended school for a short while in Elma, near the McCann home. But
this year, she enrolled as a fifth-grader at McCleary School. Her mom
said she got along very well with her teacher Lynn Bolster.

With a group of girls, sometimes she would walk to school, which is just a
few blocks farther than where she disappeared. Most times she would
ride the school bus.

The divorce was causing her grades to suffer, her mom thinks. And friends of Lindsey said she was missing a fair share of school days because of “stress.”

“Lindsey was having a hard time this school year,” Melissa Baum said. “This was not
a good year for her — with the divorce and everything.”

“She sits and writes notes and poems,” her mother said. “She’s won a couple of contests for her writing. This last year she won second place for the fifth-grade writing competition.”

When she was living in Tennessee, her family says she was part of a special
summer writing program at the University of Tennessee. She won a
scholarship to be part of it. The experience made her want to be a professional writer.

But she also has other dreams — like being an artist. Her family said she’d love to write and illustrate her own book, in fact.

She also loves animals and flirted with the idea of being a veterinarian.
She had cared for her 5-year-old German shepherd Kadence since the dog
was a puppy.

Sometimes she could make a mountain out of a mole hill, the family says, but they don’t
think any of that played into a runaway scenario.

“She’s a very emotional child,” her mom said. “We’ve always called her a drama queen.”

One of Lindsey’s best friends, 11-year-old Christina Richards, said the two
would hang out together at a local creek or the city park and muse
about life.

“I asked her a question when I first met her about
where she would go if she were to run away and I said I’d want to run
away to the Bahamas. She didn’t want to.” Christina says Lindsey wanted
to stay here.

Groups have also been searching trails behind the Simpson Door mill. Friends said it was an area the girl liked to visit.

http://**/articles/2009/07/01/local_news/doc4a4ba94721f78989072462.txt


Police Chief George Crumb said he used to look out his office window from the police station on Summit Road and see Lindsey Baum walking with her regular group of friends.
 “She was pretty much a daily fixture of the area,” “She seemed to be, you could even say, the leader of the little group.” (quote by Police Chief George Crumb)
 http://www.theolympian.com/2009/10/31/1021596/after-four-months-authorities.html





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« Reply #296 on: April 19, 2010, 10:35:20 PM »

This is a semi-profile of McCleary. It might give some outsiders a better understanding of the town. Some of these are quotes and opinions from people found in articles regarding Lindsey. Again, not to be used to pass judgement on the town, but to get an understanding of people's opinions, etc.

"People are always taking that exit to get gas. That town isn't as safe as it appears and I hope that little girl is ok" (comment)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49343017.html#idc-cover

"She was probably picked up by some drunks coming from the Little Creek Casino... I grew up in the area too and they like to go fast and swerve right through the middle of town next to the cop shop.." (comment)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49428097.html#idc-cover

"There is also the wildlife factor we have a rise in cougar and bear populations. McCleary is "home of the bear festival" (comment)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49511367.html

"you can't do much in a town this size without everybody knowing about it" (quote by Dave Pimentel )
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html

"i live down the road in Elma, and both towns are similar in the fact that kids run the streets, that's just how it is here, it might as well be called Kidsville. we are known for having tons of children here as well as senior citizens. the roads are filled with bikes and motorized wheelchairs. it's very safe here, the cops, business owners, other adults etc. all cooperate in looking out for them. when a sex offender was moving to town the cops distributed his photo door to door, posters in every shop window, every kid had his name and face memorized. he never came. the summer atmosphere is generally very norman rockwell, the kids literally take over the town, the swimming hole becomes the only potential danger, where parents do attend their children, often spending the whole day there closely watching theirs and everyone elses. our worst problem was children shoplifting candy, until they put in the cameras. they run around on bikes, skateboards, scooters and rollerskates. the speed limit is 10-20 mph. last night it wasn't dark til about 10 p.m. (and we do have a curfew here in Elma, can't remember if McCleary does). a lot of us here prefer to send our kids to school there, and lots of kids ride the city bus back and forth, even very young ones. they sit at the front and are watched like a hawk by the driver and faithful regulars. and yes we are slightly old fashioned in that boys often do walk girls home." (comment)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/comments?type=story&id=7966924

Undersheriff Rick Scott said ground search crews will focus on specific areas on the outskirts of town, such as brushy areas that children are known to frequent. It's possible a child could become tangled in heavy brush, he said.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2009/06/30/795723/search-effort-for-missing-mccleary.html

Melissa Fulton, a McCleary hair stylist, said many local residents feel comfortable letting their children play outside or ride bikes around town until dark.
http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html


McCleary’s location near several highways increases the number of locations where an abductor could have taken her, Scott said. The roads out of McCleary include state Route 8, which leads to U.S. Highway 101 and Interstate 5; and state Route 108, which leads past Little Creek Casino toward Shelton. http://www.theolympian.com/2009/10/31/1021596/after-four-months-authorities.html


Misc. town details; links to the resources where these are referenced are below:

small mill town
a town where everyone knows their neighbors
population 1,550
town surrounded by forests
logging roads
highways
railroad tracks
creeks
ponds and lakes
drainage ditches
marshy areas
swamps southwest of town
a few businesses located just off the street Lindsey would have used to get home
Straddleline ORV park & Capitol Forest nearby
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2009/06/29/795115/still-no-sign-of-missing-aberdeen.html
http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=2
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49891642.html

Sex offenders in area that should be looked into include: those that live in town, transient sex offenders, offenders who have connections to McCleary
http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html

Information about McCleary from Citi-Data.com:  http://www.city-data.com/city/McCleary-Washington.html

Nearest cities: Malone-Porter, WA (2.7 miles ), Elma, WA  (2.7 miles ), Kamilche, WA (2.9 miles), Satsop, WA (3.2 miles ), Brady, WA  (3.6 miles ), Shelton, WA  (3.7 miles ), Wynoochee, WA (3.9 miles ), Oakville, WA  (3.9 miles ).
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« Reply #297 on: April 19, 2010, 11:55:00 PM »

Ummm...sorry, that Citi-Data information is way off on the distance to the nearby towns. 

This is a more accurate calculation of distance from McCleary to the following (I didn't put all of towns from above):

Elma: 8.3 miles
Malone/Porter: 9.1 miles
Satsop: 12.3 miles
Brady: 13.7 miles
Shelton: 17.5 miles
Oakville: 19 miles
Olympia: 21 miles
Ocean Shores: 53.8 miles


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« Reply #298 on: April 20, 2010, 01:55:16 AM »


Jademoff wrote:

Does anyone know what decade Taurus it is?


______________

This car was a early 90s Ford taurus kind of a tan color.  It was most likely an aftermarket paint color as it did not match factory colors... there was something significant about the bumper


For sure a Taurus? Is there a possibility that it could have been a tan Mercury Sable?
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« Reply #299 on: April 20, 2010, 11:55:18 AM »

So I think I might have found a connection, and this is based off if the reports by Harry Oakes are legit (still something I'm on the fence with, because if Melissa didn't want to have anything to do with him being involved in the investigation, how did he get articles for his dog to pick up Lindsey's scent from, and also did he have permission from local LE to be involved on top of that, because he is retired LE himself, and he knows better than to just jump into things), and still digging further to see if this connection also has a connection around 6th street also.

hi jademoff, amanda, mb's sister is actually the one who contracted with HO..mb wanted nothing to do with him... He went through amanda for everything.

if you are trying to match up something and need some info just let me know, I can most likely help you.  you can email me if you need some info to help with whatever you are going with which connects with the HO report..  keysring@yahoo.com

Do you know if Harry Oakes was working with Law Enforcement or was he just on his own?
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