Elizabeth Olten #2 10/29/09 - 11/18/09

[Kenda]

" I'll get yelled at for this BUT...I'll say it anyways. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? The family might as well sell their story to a tv station or write a book. When one kid dies, you ask other for money to school the other? Makes no sense. Maybe if dad weren't in prison the family would be able to save money for educational purposes. I have serious doubts that any money will be used for the kid.
[/b]

I personally don't know how I feel about that. I'm a little bit confused as to an education fund however, in respect to Elizabeth Olten's mother, I'm guessing that funeral expenses were donated as well as additional bills. Perhaps the education fund is to be able to pull the brother from public school and put him in private school so as to not have to have the murder up front and center. Or maybe for therapy-or it could be college. I'm just thinking out loud because I certainly feel that the family needs all the help they can get.

When I read that there was a fund for the education of the brother, it made me feel like that was just not right.  I would expect to help the family with funds for a funeral etc... but just to keep handing money if it is not really needed, doesn't make much sense to me.... now don't go off the deep end and crucify me.   
I want justice for Elizabeth... that is what is most important.

I sure as hell hope that EO's main family wasn't involved in this donation for the boys college fund. It seems that now days people think if a tragic death occurred in a family, that a college fund should be taken for the kids. This makes no sense at all. I don't get it, if a person dies accidental or naturally, OK, but if tragicilly, then start a college fund???

[no rose colored glasses]

 KarenK welcome, and very interesting 

[Hitch]

Greetings Monkeys!  I am a local that found your site shortly after this whole incident began.  Based on clues and information some of you dug up, I was able to find the names and various information on the players in this ongoing drama.  (Remind me to never do anything illegal.)  It is nice to have a forum like this to go to where people can discuss theories and rumors.

I think many of you understand that there will not be much “official” information put out there until after the adult certification hearing on the 18th.  Even then who knows how much more information we will get.  Because of this lack of information, I have seen a growing number of people assume there is a widespread conspiracy in this town to keep this whole incident under wraps.

Looking at this as objectively as possible, my gut feeling is the media and law enforcement is not reporting anything else because there is nothing else to report.  A horrible crime was committed, a suspect is in custody.  There will be a hearing on the 18th to determine if this juvenile will be tried as an adult.

If everyone’s wish is that justice for Elizabeth be done, what other information being made public is going to help prosecute this case?  Or are we looking for more information just to satisfy our need to know? 

I have lived in this area most of my life and I am fairly certain there is no one person or organization with enough power to keep a lid on this kind of horrible crime, especially in this day and age of internet forums and social networks.  Jefferson City is not Mayberry.  Whether you choose to look for the negative aspects of this town or the positive aspects of this town, you will find it.

[Roxie]

Hello
New to this forum thankyou for letting me join.
Question here...Can we post links from other forums with information about posts on other forums to read. interesting finds out there.

[Fanny Mae]

O/T TXFLAME! If you are here I was able to find and post the article about Bill Herridge on the Ft Hood thread.

[no rose colored glasses]

Roxie WELCOME 

[Jan_in_Tx]

Hello
New to this forum thankyou for letting me join.
Question here...Can we post links from other forums with information about posts on other forums to read. interesting finds out there.

I'm sure it would be ok to post links to other forums as I have seen it done here before...we aren't supposed to post links to minors webpages (MS/FB/Twitter) or names simply because they are minors.

[Roxie]

O.K. thanks for the welcome.

I found some interesting things on this site.
http://marinadedave.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/elizabeth-oltens-killer-identified/
there is some stuff posted that was missed when items started disapearing from the internet sites.

also here in the personal posts.
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/10/15-year-old_girl_charged_with.php

[Fanny Mae]

WELCOME TO HITCH, ROXIE, AND BANANAS!!! 

AND TO ANY OTHER NEW MONKEY'S I MAY HAVE MISSED. WE HAVE HAD A BUNCH LATELY!!
HITCH, I hate to disagree with you on your first post, but we have covered many missing and murdered and some committed by juveniles. Never have I personally seen such a brick wall of information and coverage. Even in the Sandra Cantu case, although it was not a juvenile involved in the killing, there was quite a lot of non-information, but not to this degree. Lindsey Baum's missing case is almost as stonewalled, however, it is not the capital city of the state either and is in a pretty remote location.

The erasing of public records on the official sites has been alarming. Many of them did not involve Alyssa at all, but they were still taken down. The media have lightly covered the story and the "leave us alone" bloggers have been out in force. Even locals have complained about the way things are disposed of silently and quickly.

So although I disagree with you on this, please do not take me as unwelcoming. I just want to see Elizabeth Olten's not to be "this particular, special girl." 

[Txsflame]

O/T TXFLAME! If you are here I was able to find and post the article about Bill Herridge on the Ft Hood thread.

 OT   Ty very much, he is a great guy and I had no idea he played...

[Jan_in_Tx]

OK--I have a question/comment.
After TxFlame's post yesterday regarding any minors being arrested recently, I went to casenet and looked through all the scheduled/pending trials in JC and found NOTHING for AB on nov. 18th...I am kinda new to this, but I was searching under 19th district (cole county) and looked through EVERY judge for the week of nov 16th.  I did notice a case (a few) against a "KENNETH A.MINOR" but charges are listed as assault. Not sure if this is how they conceil a minor's identity of if this is the name of someone else?? I can't seem to understand why they have all the details of a lot of other cases scheduled for that week except for this one...seems strange to me.  Anyone with an answer please enlighten me, TIA.
I had something else come to mind but have sense lost track or my thoughts, packing to go out of town this wknd, if I remember what I was going to say, will post again.

[Fanny Mae]

OK--I have a question/comment.
After TxFlame's post yesterday regarding any minors being arrested recently, I went to casenet and looked through all the scheduled/pending trials in JC and found NOTHING for AB on nov. 18th...I am kinda new to this, but I was searching under 19th district (cole county) and looked through EVERY judge for the week of nov 16th.  I did notice a case (a few) against a "KENNETH A.MINOR" but charges are listed as assault. Not sure if this is how they conceil a minor's identity of if this is the name of someone else?? I can't seem to understand why they have all the details of a lot of other cases scheduled for that week except for this one...seems strange to me.  Anyone with an answer please enlighten me, TIA.
I had something else come to mind but have sense lost track or my thoughts, packing to go out of town this wknd, if I remember what I was going to say, will post again.

I have had a sick to my stomach feeling that Nov 18 is going to be a big dud. 

[Jan_in_Tx]

Me too, Fanny, me tooo.....I pray we are wrong   

[Hitch]

WELCOME TO HITCH, ROXIE, AND BANANAS!!! 

AND TO ANY OTHER NEW MONKEY'S I MAY HAVE MISSED. WE HAVE HAD A BUNCH LATELY!!
HITCH, I hate to disagree with you on your first post, but we have covered many missing and murdered and some committed by juveniles. Never have I personally seen such a brick wall of information and coverage. Even in the Sandra Cantu case, although it was not a juvenile involved in the killing, there was quite a lot of non-information, but not to this degree. Lindsey Baum's missing case is almost as stonewalled, however, it is not the capital city of the state either and is in a pretty remote location.

The erasing of public records on the official sites has been alarming. Many of them did not involve Alyssa at all, but they were still taken down. The media have lightly covered the story and the "leave us alone" bloggers have been out in force. Even locals have complained about the way things are disposed of silently and quickly.

So although I disagree with you on this, please do not take me as unwelcoming. I just want to see Elizabeth Olten's not to be "this particular, special girl." 

Thanks for the welcome and don't worry about disagreeing with me.  Discussions would be pretty boring if everyone agreed with each other!

I am not used to cases like this, especially so close to home so I am not familiar with how other communities cover them.  I just try to put myself in the shoes of each side and try to determine how I might handle it.  If I was on the defense team I would be covering as much of AB's online tracks as possible.  If I were with the prosecution I don't think I would want some of this information out there until I was ready to use it to my best advantage.  If I were with the media I would certainly stop short of reporting on rumors.  Once you start down that road, there is no end to it.

Next week's adult certification hearing should be very interesting.  Will the prosecution go all out and lay out every bit of evidence they have to prove pre-meditation and prove that AB knew exactly what she was doing?  Or will they be confident enough she will be certified that they will hold back?

[Going Bananas]

OK--I have a question/comment.
After TxFlame's post yesterday regarding any minors being arrested recently, I went to casenet and looked through all the scheduled/pending trials in JC and found NOTHING for AB on nov. 18th...I am kinda new to this, but I was searching under 19th district (cole county) and looked through EVERY judge for the week of nov 16th.  I did notice a case (a few) against a "KENNETH A.MINOR" but charges are listed as assault. Not sure if this is how they conceil a minor's identity of if this is the name of someone else?? I can't seem to understand why they have all the details of a lot of other cases scheduled for that week except for this one...seems strange to me.  Anyone with an answer please enlighten me, TIA.
I had something else come to mind but have sense lost track or my thoughts, packing to go out of town this wknd, if I remember what I was going to say, will post again.

This is my first post and I hope I'm doing in correctly.
If you look on Casenet it will tell you what division a case is being handled in (i.e. circuit, criminal).  I THINK this will be on the docket in the Juvenile Division until it is decided to be handled in the Criminal Division.  Pretty sure that's why we are not finding anything there.

[three left feet]

" I'll get yelled at for this BUT...I'll say it anyways. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? The family might as well sell their story to a tv station or write a book. When one kid dies, you ask other for money to school the other? Makes no sense. Maybe if dad weren't in prison the family would be able to save money for educational purposes. I have serious doubts that any money will be used for the kid.
[/b]

I personally don't know how I feel about that. I'm a little bit confused as to an education fund however, in respect to Elizabeth Olten's mother, I'm guessing that funeral expenses were donated as well as additional bills. Perhaps the education fund is to be able to pull the brother from public school and put him in private school so as to not have to have the murder up front and center. Or maybe for therapy-or it could be college. I'm just thinking out loud because I certainly feel that the family needs all the help they can get.

When I read that there was a fund for the education of the brother, it made me feel like that was just not right.  I would expect to help the family with funds for a funeral etc... but just to keep handing money if it is not really needed, doesn't make much sense to me.... now don't go off the deep end and crucify me.   
I want justice for Elizabeth... that is what is most important.

I sure as hell hope that EO's main family wasn't involved in this donation for the boys college fund. It seems that now days people think if a tragic death occurred in a family, that a college fund should be taken for the kids. This makes no sense at all. I don't get it, if a person dies accidental or naturally, OK, but if tragicilly, then start a college fund???

Thank you for that link.  I'm not directing my comments to anyone, but in general. First of all, I'm disgusted, but not at the benefit.  I'm embarrassed to know that I might have stood next to one of those people in line somewhere yesterday.  To suggest that someone would exploit their child's murder 3-4 weeks after the fact is beyond my comprehension. 

It is not unusual for obituaries here to list an educational trust fund where memorials may be sent.  It's common.  It's maybe looking for something good in something tragic.  People want to "do" something and this is something they can do.  I don't recall negative comments locally when a woman was recently murdered by her estranged husband and memorials were directed to a grandson.  Wednesday's paper had an obituary for an unwed pregnant teen that was in a car accident and memorials were directed to what appears to be a nephew born out-of-wedlock [GASP!] 

I've found myself typing and deleting for several minutes now because I don't want to seem insensitive.  It doesn't matter how someone dies.  Whether it's a heart attack or a car accident.  Whether it's serving our country, victim of terrorism, or murder.  It's the idea that maybe, just maybe, something good can come out of it.  I don't know the family personally so I'm just offering the following for thought.  Maybe Elizabeth's brother would have been happy working for minimum wage all his life.  Maybe as a result of this he'll want to go into psychology or law.  And maybe now he'll be able to. 

My tax dollars were recently donated to others who chose to trade in a clunker or buy a new house.  The govt distributes monies to victims of terrorism.  Elizabeth was just a little girl and there will be no govt bail-out for her family.  The benefit is voluntary.  Whoever wants to donate, can.  Yes, it's unusual that there's a benefit and that something else (Missouri Missing) was noted in the obituary.  But everything about this case is unusual.  And I could certainly see where this isn't what Elizabeth's family was thinking about when they were writing up an obituary.   


In response to another post, as a local the only thing I've heard from a reliable source that I didn't see reported was that AB would appear at the hearing in person.  I referenced that in another post.

Also, the reference that AB's attorney made about "this particular juvenile."  When I first saw that I took it as his attempt to keep from saying "her" and hopefully that's all it is.   

[N2WISHN]

Greetings Monkeys!  I am a local that found your site shortly after this whole incident began.  Based on clues and information some of you dug up, I was able to find the names and various information on the players in this ongoing drama.  (Remind me to never do anything illegal.)  It is nice to have a forum like this to go to where people can discuss theories and rumors.

I think many of you understand that there will not be much “official” information put out there until after the adult certification hearing on the 18th.  Even then who knows how much more information we will get.  Because of this lack of information, I have seen a growing number of people assume there is a widespread conspiracy in this town to keep this whole incident under wraps.

Looking at this as objectively as possible, my gut feeling is the media and law enforcement is not reporting anything else because there is nothing else to report.  A horrible crime was committed, a suspect is in custody.  There will be a hearing on the 18th to determine if this juvenile will be tried as an adult.

If everyone’s wish is that justice for Elizabeth be done, what other information being made public is going to help prosecute this case?  Or are we looking for more information just to satisfy our need to know? 

I have lived in this area most of my life and I am fairly certain there is no one person or organization with enough power to keep a lid on this kind of horrible crime, especially in this day and age of internet forums and social networks.  Jefferson City is not Mayberry.  Whether you choose to look for the negative aspects of this town or the positive aspects of this town, you will find it.

my gut feeling is the media and law enforcement is not reporting anything else because there is nothing else to report.

You are entitled to your opinion just as others on this board are entitled to theirs…..That is the purpose SM.  In my opinion, to question is paramount to being informed and not being deceived and I will continue to question until a mod tells me otherwise, and if that happens I’ll most likely take it on down the road.


Or are we looking for more information just to satisfy our need to know?


We are here to discuss, question and search out information for as many reasons as there are posters on SM. If we didn’t do these things, we wouldn’t need a discussion board because there would be nothing to discuss………..

[Fanny Mae]

OK--I have a question/comment.
After TxFlame's post yesterday regarding any minors being arrested recently, I went to casenet and looked through all the scheduled/pending trials in JC and found NOTHING for AB on nov. 18th...I am kinda new to this, but I was searching under 19th district (cole county) and looked through EVERY judge for the week of nov 16th.  I did notice a case (a few) against a "KENNETH A.MINOR" but charges are listed as assault. Not sure if this is how they conceil a minor's identity of if this is the name of someone else?? I can't seem to understand why they have all the details of a lot of other cases scheduled for that week except for this one...seems strange to me.  Anyone with an answer please enlighten me, TIA.
I had something else come to mind but have sense lost track or my thoughts, packing to go out of town this wknd, if I remember what I was going to say, will post again.

This is my first post and I hope I'm doing in correctly.
If you look on Casenet it will tell you what division a case is being handled in (i.e. circuit, criminal).  I THINK this will be on the docket in the Juvenile Division until it is decided to be handled in the Criminal Division.  Pretty sure that's why we are not finding anything there.

Welcome GOING BANANAS!! 

Good enough. You'll get the swing of it.

[Fanny Mae]

WELCOME TO HITCH, ROXIE, AND BANANAS!!! 

AND TO ANY OTHER NEW MONKEY'S I MAY HAVE MISSED. WE HAVE HAD A BUNCH LATELY!!
HITCH, I hate to disagree with you on your first post, but we have covered many missing and murdered and some committed by juveniles. Never have I personally seen such a brick wall of information and coverage. Even in the Sandra Cantu case, although it was not a juvenile involved in the killing, there was quite a lot of non-information, but not to this degree. Lindsey Baum's missing case is almost as stonewalled, however, it is not the capital city of the state either and is in a pretty remote location.

The erasing of public records on the official sites has been alarming. Many of them did not involve Alyssa at all, but they were still taken down. The media have lightly covered the story and the "leave us alone" bloggers have been out in force. Even locals have complained about the way things are disposed of silently and quickly.

So although I disagree with you on this, please do not take me as unwelcoming. I just want to see Elizabeth Olten's not to be "this particular, special girl." 

Thanks for the welcome and don't worry about disagreeing with me.  Discussions would be pretty boring if everyone agreed with each other!

I am not used to cases like this, especially so close to home so I am not familiar with how other communities cover them.  I just try to put myself in the shoes of each side and try to determine how I might handle it.  If I was on the defense team I would be covering as much of AB's online tracks as possible.  If I were with the prosecution I don't think I would want some of this information out there until I was ready to use it to my best advantage.  If I were with the media I would certainly stop short of reporting on rumors.  Once you start down that road, there is no end to it.

Next week's adult certification hearing should be very interesting.  Will the prosecution go all out and lay out every bit of evidence they have to prove pre-meditation and prove that AB knew exactly what she was doing?  Or will they be confident enough she will be certified that they will hold back?

The media have hardly reported anything. These murders do no happen in a bubble. The local media hardly covered the funeral of Elizabeth even though it was public, and there was a big turnout on the streets for her procession.  The school board did not even meet until MONDAY at 11am when school was already in session. They didn't even have a plan in place for how to treat the elementary students who were class mates of Elizabeth's, and only lip service paid to the high school students because one of the TEACHERS committed suicide that morning. As far as I have heard, they never did get counselors for the students, and it is supposed to be hush-hush because the perp is a Jefferson City High School student. It is a secret.....because she is a juvi.

I could go on and on,  but I won't. BTW, since you are local, are you familiar with the Funeral Home owner??? The one with the beautiful white carriage and the white horse that pulls it?

[Kenda]

" I'll get yelled at for this BUT...I'll say it anyways. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? The family might as well sell their story to a tv station or write a book. When one kid dies, you ask other for money to school the other? Makes no sense. Maybe if dad weren't in prison the family would be able to save money for educational purposes. I have serious doubts that any money will be used for the kid.
[/b]

I personally don't know how I feel about that. I'm a little bit confused as to an education fund however, in respect to Elizabeth Olten's mother, I'm guessing that funeral expenses were donated as well as additional bills. Perhaps the education fund is to be able to pull the brother from public school and put him in private school so as to not have to have the murder up front and center. Or maybe for therapy-or it could be college. I'm just thinking out loud because I certainly feel that the family needs all the help they can get.

When I read that there was a fund for the education of the brother, it made me feel like that was just not right.  I would expect to help the family with funds for a funeral etc... but just to keep handing money if it is not really needed, doesn't make much sense to me.... now don't go off the deep end and crucify me.   
I want justice for Elizabeth... that is what is most important.

I sure as hell hope that EO's main family wasn't involved in this donation for the boys college fund. It seems that now days people think if a tragic death occurred in a family, that a college fund should be taken for the kids. This makes no sense at all. I don't get it, if a person dies accidental or naturally, OK, but if tragicilly, then start a college fund???

Thank you for that link.  I'm not directing my comments to anyone, but in general. First of all, I'm disgusted, but not at the benefit.  I'm embarrassed to know that I might have stood next to one of those people in line somewhere yesterday.  To suggest that someone would exploit their child's murder 3-4 weeks after the fact is beyond my comprehension. 

It is not unusual for obituaries here to list an educational trust fund where memorials may be sent.  It's common.  It's maybe looking for something good in something tragic.  People want to "do" something and this is something they can do.  I don't recall negative comments locally when a woman was recently murdered by her estranged husband and memorials were directed to a grandson.  Wednesday's paper had an obituary for an unwed pregnant teen that was in a car accident and memorials were directed to what appears to be a nephew born out-of-wedlock [GASP!] 

I've found myself typing and deleting for several minutes now because I don't want to seem insensitive.  It doesn't matter how someone dies.  Whether it's a heart attack or a car accident.  Whether it's serving our country, victim of terrorism, or murder.  It's the idea that maybe, just maybe, something good can come out of it.  I don't know the family personally so I'm just offering the following for thought.  Maybe Elizabeth's brother would have been happy working for minimum wage all his life.  Maybe as a result of this he'll want to go into psychology or law.  And maybe now he'll be able to. 

My tax dollars were recently donated to others who chose to trade in a clunker or buy a new house.  The govt distributes monies to victims of terrorism.  Elizabeth was just a little girl and there will be no govt bail-out for her family.  The benefit is voluntary.  Whoever wants to donate, can.  Yes, it's unusual that there's a benefit and that something else (Missouri Missing) was noted in the obituary.  But everything about this case is unusual.  And I could certainly see where this isn't what Elizabeth's family was thinking about when they were writing up an obituary.   


In response to another post, as a local the only thing I've heard from a reliable source that I didn't see reported was that AB would appear at the hearing in person.  I referenced that in another post.

Also, the reference that AB's attorney made about "this particular juvenile."  When I first saw that I took it as his attempt to keep from saying "her" and hopefully that's all it is.   

This will be my last post becase of people like you who think they are holier than thou. Discusted because you might have been in line with someone who post somethig you don't agree to. You r just a nasty a*s person. A child that has a family member die of natural cause has to strive to go to college, but a kid that has a family member die tragicaly should have a donated college fund is fantastic to you.
 Thats great, but why slam people that have a different opinon of yours.
Please take my approval off for this site. People like "three left feet" has ruined this site for me