Elizabeth Olten #2 10/29/09 - 11/18/09

[Ariana]

I don't know which book I bought my son, I believe there are different authors.  Anime has some very dark stuff or some stuff that is very deep.  A lot of the cartoons from today are no more violent than He-Man and G.I. Joe were in the 80's.  The Naruto book I bought read backwards and was like a comic in book form.  I didn't read the whole thing but I sure did flip through, not that I followed it well, being backwards it was really confusing to figure out where I was supposed to read.

So for someone like me that used to watch Yogi Bear, Woody Woodpecker and Pokey and Gumby this stuff is pretty dark.

Yes Northern, it is a lot darker than the happier days of cartoons.  Anime has a lot of psychological stuff in it.  I saw one movie called Akira, never got it, still haven't, and it has been explained to me and all.  That was definately a thinker to see and that was in the 90s.  There are some things that my kids do watch, like my boys watching Naruto, but I offest that by refusing to get cable so they cannot watch other stuff that is much more innappropriate.  Lots of anime has nudity in it too.  There just has to be a balance maintained and I know what they watch and talk to them about the stuff.   Also I stalk my own kids up at the school so I know what they are doing as well.  I see too many parents that don't care and just aren't involved.  They do what is easiest instead of what is right. 

[higherhopes]

28 kids tonight which is a huge amount where we live.  Mind you it is a gorgeous night (38 degrees) and very little snow so no snow boots required or mitts and parkas.  Kids were out in force tonight and with the moon almost full it was great.  It was my turn to walk with the kids and their friends and it was such a nice night that we went further than ever before as I was thinking of all the children that should be out there enjoying this evening and are not. 

Yeah! You are very lucky living where you do. You and HIGHER HOPES are the only ones that are saying you had many trixsters.

e, I havent said a word about having trick or treaters, Ive been at work all day.....but I did see them walking down the road of my subdivision when I was coming home......so I guess there was some.....

[Northern Rose]

Accidental Shooting Puts Child in Hospital
An accidental shooting between siblings in Cole County, puts one child in the hospital.

An 11-year-old from Cole County is at University Hospital after an accidental shooting.

We confirmed with the Cole County Sheriff, the child's 13-year-old sibling accidentally shot off a gun while they were playing.

It happened just before three Saturday afternoon in the 5200 Block of Veil of Tears.

We're told the 13-year-old was looking for a flashlight, came across the gun and thought it was a toy.

The 11-year-old was shot in the abdomen, we know the child was life-flighted to University Hospital and is in stable condition.
 
The parents were not home at the time.

http://www.kmiz.com/news/story.php?id=15358

[theboyzmom]

I don't know which book I bought my son, I believe there are different authors.  Anime has some very dark stuff or some stuff that is very deep.  A lot of the cartoons from today are no more violent than He-Man and G.I. Joe were in the 80's.  The Naruto book I bought read backwards and was like a comic in book form.  I didn't read the whole thing but I sure did flip through, not that I followed it well, being backwards it was really confusing to figure out where I was supposed to read.

So for someone like me that used to watch Yogi Bear, Woody Woodpecker and Pokey and Gumby this stuff is pretty dark.

Yes Northern, it is a lot darker than the happier days of cartoons.  Anime has a lot of psychological stuff in it.  I saw one movie called Akira, never got it, still haven't, and it has been explained to me and all.  That was definately a thinker to see and that was in the 90s.  There are some things that my kids do watch, like my boys watching Naruto, but I offest that by refusing to get cable so they cannot watch other stuff that is much more innappropriate.  Lots of anime has nudity in it too.  There just has to be a balance maintained and I know what they watch and talk to them about the stuff.   Also I stalk my own kids up at the school so I know what they are doing as well.  I see too many parents that don't care and just aren't involved.  They do what is easiest instead of what is right. 

I have a 23 y/o step son that is into anime. I have never liked it - it is very dark with lots of sexual overtones in my opinion. The fanfiction site is also rather offensive to me. I blocked it from my home network because it has lots of links to adult content that I did not want the kids into. My younger step son who is a RSO got into the anime and found it sexually stimulating as many of the young women are drawn in a provocative way - even in the anime supposedly for younger children.  On the anime books the older one has there were warnings similar to movies. I had never, nor have I since, seen a book with cartoons in it and found in the kids section of book stores to have an "over 16" rating on it. So I have a general rule for my kids that there is no anime allowed.

I am not saying EMO or anime had anything to do with why this girl killed a child. But I am saying it is a symptom of potential problems and could very well feed a sick soul and lead them into violence.

[theboyzmom]

IMO we need to stop making excuses for our teens.  They are becoming more and more resistant to authority because adults are afraid to say NO. 

I agree Klaas - too many kids are being raised by kids (either in age or behavior) - I would never talk to my parents the way many kids do today. We, as a society, have given up our parenting to the state. Either the schools are supposed to teach kids or the rest of the kids do it for us.  I see everyday stories about kids that have done terrible things. I know that there have always been sick evil kids out there. But today it seems there are more. I am pretty sure that the increase is do, in part, to the lack of stable families. When I was a kid it was almost unheard of for a 16 y/o to have a baby and keep it. Now it is common place. My sister teaches as a middle school and has a 13 y.o that just delivered and is keeping a baby. WTF. Who is going to raise the kid? Add to that the guilt of many parents for working long hours (both parents) not for food/shelter but for extra things. Seems the parents have forgotten that things do not replace having a parent there when you need them. So sad.

[jill]

Accidental Shooting Puts Child in Hospital
An accidental shooting between siblings in Cole County, puts one child in the hospital.

An 11-year-old from Cole County is at University Hospital after an accidental shooting.

We confirmed with the Cole County Sheriff, the child's 13-year-old sibling accidentally shot off a gun while they were playing.

It happened just before three Saturday afternoon in the 5200 Block of Veil of Tears.

We're told the 13-year-old was looking for a flashlight, came across the gun and thought it was a toy.

The 11-year-old was shot in the abdomen, we know the child was life-flighted to University Hospital and is in stable condition.
 
The parents were not home at the time.

http://www.kmiz.com/news/story.php?id=15358

naming a street "Veil of Tears" is like asking for trouble!!

on a serious note, parents need to lock up their guns, if they are going to have them in the home.  Absolutely just stupidity on their part, imo.

[jill]

o/t -

Happy November, Everyone!

I'm feeling so good today - I finally found a job, at Kohl's.  Just in the nick of time!

[janetruth]

o/t -

Happy November, Everyone!

I'm feeling so good today - I finally found a job, at Kohl's.  Just in the nick of time!

 

[Nut44x4]

IMO we need to stop making excuses for our teens.  They are becoming more and more resistant to authority because adults are afraid to say NO. 

True........also adding>
Parents are not allowed to discipline their kids in ways that work. Everything is considered 'abuse' now...and has been for a long time. Kids are allowed to 'express themselves' any way they choose, anytime they choose. There is no discipline anymore......period.

[no rose colored glasses]

o/t -

Happy November, Everyone!

I'm feeling so good today - I finally found a job, at Kohl's.  Just in the nick of time!

     Good for you

[no rose colored glasses]

 I never heard of Anime before. Sometimes while flipping through channels I've noticed a cartoon where the characters have really big eyes, I didn't stay too long on it, is that one of the cartoons?  I grew up with Yogi, Popeye and the Flinstones, don't much care about these newer cartoons.

[Valerie]

Happy November Monkeys!

This is my first post, though I have lurked for a short time.

My DH told me a few days ago to make sure I watched NG, that the show would feature a 9yo girl murdered by a 15yo girl. Needless to say, I was appalled at what I learned.  I just can't wrap my mind around this, and ALL the violence that is occurring in our country by some very young people. I realize this isn't a new phenomenon, but seems as if it is happening with greater frequency maybe over the past 10 years or so. Between this and child abductions and murders, I am just in a state of shock.

Thanks for allowing me to vent.

Val

[no rose colored glasses]

Valerie WELCOME  and another sad disturbing murder.           http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=7093550      14 year old Fresno boy murdered 4 year old neighbor boy 

[theboyzmom]

I never heard of Anime before. Sometimes while flipping through channels I've noticed a cartoon where the characters have really big eyes, I didn't stay too long on it, is that one of the cartoons?  I grew up with Yogi, Popeye and the Flinstones, don't much care about these newer cartoons.

Technically, anime is animated manga. Manga is the cartoon books. Anime is the cartoon movie. All are characterized by similarly drawn characters with the big eyes. The most widely known is the Pokeman series. Not all is evil but it tends to lean towards the sexual and violent with women often being portrayed as helpless and victims.

[no rose colored glasses]

I never heard of Anime before. Sometimes while flipping through channels I've noticed a cartoon where the characters have really big eyes, I didn't stay too long on it, is that one of the cartoons?  I grew up with Yogi, Popeye and the Flinstones, don't much care about these newer cartoons.

Technically, anime is animated manga. Manga is the cartoon books. Anime is the cartoon movie. All are characterized by similarly drawn characters with the big eyes. The most widely known is the Pokeman series. Not all is evil but it tends to lean towards the sexual and violent with women often being portrayed as helpless and victims.

Thanks, now Pokeman I have heard, I'm sure everyone has heard that, for awhile there that was very popular.

[joesamas mama]

Valerie WELCOME  and another sad disturbing murder.           http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=7093550      14 year old Fresno boy murdered 4 year old neighbor boy 

   

[Txsflame]

I see the Smooth Criminal girl's myspace says she lives in Forks, WA, but that seems to be a popular place to want to live, because of the Twilight series, so who knows maybe she lives close to the suspect 

 In looking at Smooth's friends she has many form differetn parts of WA. I think she DID live in Mo near AB, but recently moved. Most of Smooths Criminal friends are from Wa. Smooth has a photo album about "moving". She may not actually live in Forks though, ALOT of her friends on MS live in Lacy Wa.

[Txsflame]

IMO we need to stop making excuses for our teens.  They are becoming more and more resistant to authority because adults are afraid to say NO. 

 I had this convo with my kids princepal when they were in prek and 2nd grade(they are not 16 and 18). It was obvious to me even back then it was going to he77 quickly. Kids were not punished, and parents blamed the school when kids misbehaved. I am not sure where so many parents came up with the theory the world owes thier little precious one something. Olzz dont get me wrong I love my children dearly, but I also know they are FAR from perfect. I beleive disciplining them is what is best for them to learn and know to face consquences of their action. I also learned mine were very little, never to say "my kids wouldnt do that" Everything I thought my kids would "never" do,  is exactly what they did (maybe just to prove me worng..lol)
BUT I think the difference in kids and young adults that are good functioning members of society and those that arent is being raised to face the consquences, and have never had any, think anything and everything id A-OKAY. We also are beginning to see a world where too many believe "what ever feels good is ok". Very few think of what their actions may cause to another person.  I have had kids hang out with my son and convince him to curve in his own arm(like a tatoo), my son tried blame the friend, Nope it didnt work. I do not believe for a minute that my ds would haev come up with it on his own, but I also KNOW he knew better. I can go on with stories of things I have seen in kids that ran around with mine. The one positive thing I saw though IS, most of my kids friends that had NO homelife, for one reason or another, WANTED to be at our house, where I was home and I did things with the kids and their friends(even if it was as simple as watching movies) They also followed and respected my rules for the most part(those that didnt, didnt last long). I learned long ago, kids want rules, they want restrictions even as they are trying to fight them and figure out a way around them..they want them.

[no rose colored glasses]

I see the Smooth Criminal girl's myspace says she lives in Forks, WA, but that seems to be a popular place to want to live, because of the Twilight series, so who knows maybe she lives close to the suspect 

 In looking at Smooth's friends she has many form differetn parts of WA. I think she DID live in Mo near AB, but recently moved. Most of Smooths Criminal friends are from Wa. Smooth has a photo album about "moving". She may not actually live in Forks though, ALOT of her friends on MS live in Lacy Wa.

Thanks

[Txsflame]

 Read this post on IS....
This is what I heard from one of the Juvenile workers working with AB:
This person said that because of AB’s mental state, they want to, and I guess will be pushing for her to be tried as a juvenile. This person said that the only reason that they would try her as an adult is because of public outrage if they didn’t.

My thought here is if she had enough mental capacity to plan out such a gruesome crime then she should be tried as an adult. If she is tried as a juvenile, she’s free at 21. What kind of a statement is that sending to our kids??? And, if the reports are in fact true that the grandparents had no idea that she was capable of doing this, but the kids close to her at school say they are not surprised, it seems to me that she knew what act to put on around her grandparents but was herself around her friends. I’m thinking that she is a very smart, manipulative girl and who’s to say that she is not acting around the juvenile authorities.

Thoughts from anyone????

This from another poster
AB's BF is still in police custody for the threats he was making in/at school. I gotta believe that if he were actually involved in the murder he would have been charged already.

Rumors of a target list are floating around...that Elizabeth was a "practice kill".

And this...

My understanding is that strangulation could have been the cause with a knife being used for postmortem mutilation of the body.
.
The word around the court house is that it was a “thrill kill”. She wanted to know what it was like to kill someone, however, I have heard that she had a list of people she wanted to kill and Elizabeth was her “practice run”.

As for accomplices, none reported yet. I do believe they have questioned her boyfriend and searched his house but as of now, now arrest. It has been said that the boyfriend was with her on Thursday after Elizabeth went missing and has said that AB was acting normal. It has also been said that he was threatening to kill anyone at school that said something bad about her. It is said that he is still in custody for the threats.
All this info from pretty good sources

 
And now my question for the day.....

 Do you all think LE have seen the MS for AB's friend that is disturbing us so...Would it be worth the effort to call the tips line(if there is one) and point it out.. I kinda feel silly even asking, but it is disturbing me. I have even showed it to friends without giving any real background, just the facts of the case and without my saying what I thought it meant, they read it the same way. Even if it doesnt mean what we are reading it to mean.. someone NEEDS to reach this girl, before she is our next AB!!! I mean we are pretty sure AB is a sociapath, who knows what she has filled this girls head with..or WORSE What if it was this girl putting stuff in AB's head!!?!?!?