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Author Topic: Elizabeth Olten #2 10/29/09 - 11/18/09  (Read 601197 times)
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Northern Rose
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« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2009, 02:03:13 PM »

While we are on the topic of LE,  why is the news media not following up on the events of this:

No Amber Alert
Reportedly turned away help from a specialized LE agency
What has LE learned from this?
Are there internal reviews going on so that the next missing child case may be handled differently?

All questions local media should be asking but are not and have absolutely no bearing on AB's case but DOES have a direct impact to everyone in the county that may be in a similar situation in the future.  Day two with no response from KOMU and I had escalate my email yesterday.  I also sent a email to KRCG yesterday and have heard nothing back either.  How very interesting that News likes to ignore emails out there.

1.  they think that the public will accept that the "criteria" was not met with the Amber Alert system - also they will argue that an Amber would not have helped in this case.

2.  i doubt they will admit that they turned down the FBI - all articles that I have read over the last days have not reiterated this fact, just that the FBI was there to help.

3.  nothing.  they are too busy patting each other on the backs for "finding" Elizabeth.

4.  doubt it.  They don't seem like the type of LE org that has any internal reviews.

Question for you all:  anyone notice if Sheriff White attended Elizabeth's memorial or graveside services?

He did not attend.   Bill Currie's funeral was at the same time and he was at that one.
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« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2009, 02:06:12 PM »

 That was what I was saying.I dont think "cutting" was a sign here..excpet of inner turmoil. "Cutters" want to harm themself..make theirself pay..not others.. My last statement was meant to say I guess without treatment it could escalte.. Wit a "cutter" I would be more concerned about suicide then them hurting another. jmho. I also know nothing is always true in every case!
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« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2009, 02:11:49 PM »

Sorry thought just popped in my head... Do we KNOW she left the friends house at 6:15? I saw there was talk of atleast a miniumal attempt of cover up by gp of AB. (ie refusing to cooperate). Do we know when the last time a crediable person spoke to or saw her. OR is the grandparents of AB giving us the info on when she was last seen?
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jill
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« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2009, 02:13:59 PM »

That was what I was saying.I dont think "cutting" was a sign here..excpet of inner turmoil. "Cutters" want to harm themself..make theirself pay..not others.. My last statement was meant to say I guess without treatment it could escalte.. Wit a "cutter" I would be more concerned about suicide then them hurting another. jmho. I also know nothing is always true in every case!

I agree that most cutters are doing it to self-harm.  Apparently they are able to release their inner pain this way.

But that said, I also believe that some people, especially killers, can very well suffer from more than one mental illness. 

Again to quote the Trenton Duckett case, Melinda Duckett was a cutter, but also violent towards others from what was reported.
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jill
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« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2009, 02:16:56 PM »

Sorry thought just popped in my head... Do we KNOW she left the friends house at 6:15? I saw there was talk of atleast a miniumal attempt of cover up by gp of AB. (ie refusing to cooperate). Do we know when the last time a crediable person spoke to or saw her. OR is the grandparents of AB giving us the info on when she was last seen?

I could have sworn that it was reported that "she was last seen walking up Route D".

But who knows who reported that.  Could have been her murderer who told LE that they last saw her walking.

I'm surprised at the cell phone call to Elizabeth, rumored by her killer to lure her back.  Why would the killer do that, when the cell p0hone company would have a record of it?  With or without the phone being found.

And, AB's cell phone had been taken away from her - so whose phone was used to place the call to Elizabeth?

AND, supposedly LE had those cell phone records pretty quickly.  Wouldn't they have see this call?

Doesn't make sense.
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jill
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« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2009, 02:18:37 PM »

While we are on the topic of LE,  why is the news media not following up on the events of this:

No Amber Alert
Reportedly turned away help from a specialized LE agency
What has LE learned from this?
Are there internal reviews going on so that the next missing child case may be handled differently?

All questions local media should be asking but are not and have absolutely no bearing on AB's case but DOES have a direct impact to everyone in the county that may be in a similar situation in the future.  Day two with no response from KOMU and I had escalate my email yesterday.  I also sent a email to KRCG yesterday and have heard nothing back either.  How very interesting that News likes to ignore emails out there.

1.  they think that the public will accept that the "criteria" was not met with the Amber Alert system - also they will argue that an Amber would not have helped in this case.

2.  i doubt they will admit that they turned down the FBI - all articles that I have read over the last days have not reiterated this fact, just that the FBI was there to help.

3.  nothing.  they are too busy patting each other on the backs for "finding" Elizabeth.

4.  doubt it.  They don't seem like the type of LE org that has any internal reviews.

Question for you all:  anyone notice if Sheriff White attended Elizabeth's memorial or graveside services?

He did not attend.   Bill Currie's funeral was at the same time and he was at that one.

I'll never forget Sheriff Dawsey at Jessie Lunsford's service.  Stood right there supporting Mark.  You could not have kept Dawsey from being there, period.
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2009, 02:22:31 PM »

While we are on the topic of LE,  why is the news media not following up on the events of this:

No Amber Alert
Reportedly turned away help from a specialized LE agency
What has LE learned from this?
Are there internal reviews going on so that the next missing child case may be handled differently?

All questions local media should be asking but are not and have absolutely no bearing on AB's case but DOES have a direct impact to everyone in the county that may be in a similar situation in the future.  Day two with no response from KOMU and I had escalate my email yesterday.  I also sent a email to KRCG yesterday and have heard nothing back either.  How very interesting that News likes to ignore emails out there.

1.  they think that the public will accept that the "criteria" was not met with the Amber Alert system - also they will argue that an Amber would not have helped in this case.

2.  i doubt they will admit that they turned down the FBI - all articles that I have read over the last days have not reiterated this fact, just that the FBI was there to help.

3.  nothing.  they are too busy patting each other on the backs for "finding" Elizabeth.

4.  doubt it.  They don't seem like the type of LE org that has any internal reviews.

Question for you all:  anyone notice if Sheriff White attended Elizabeth's memorial or graveside services?

He did not attend.   Bill Currie's funeral was at the same time and he was at that one.

Really?? 
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
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 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2009, 02:33:38 PM »

i don't know how to link a video, but her's the actual link:

http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-elizabeth-olten-missing-girl-thurs-102309,0,77198.story
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jill
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« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2009, 02:37:37 PM »

is this fence around this pond the electrical fence from the Youtube video?



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janetruth
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« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2009, 02:42:06 PM »

That was what I was saying.I dont think "cutting" was a sign here..excpet of inner turmoil. "Cutters" want to harm themself..make theirself pay..not others.. My last statement was meant to say I guess without treatment it could escalte.. Wit a "cutter" I would be more concerned about suicide then them hurting another. jmho. I also know nothing is always true in every case!

My experience with cutters (and that's just from hanging out with kids in theater programs) is that they have usually been abused as children, and in consequence, have shut down their emotions.  The cutting, is done because they can actually feel the pain, and it's reassuring to them to be able to feel SOMETHING...anything.  As most of them have not let anyone know about the abuse, they have not had any sort of counselling for it, and so don't know how to open up their own feelings in a less destructive manner. 

I'm not saying that's true for all such kids, but that's why those that I know did it.
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2009, 02:46:09 PM »

is this fence around this pond the electrical fence from the Youtube video?





I think the driveway to the house goes up where the white truck and 4-wheeler are parked and up by the horse paddock behind the old house. Just remembering from the pictures posted earlier.  I believe that electrified fence follows that driveway, and I think they were closer to the Buff brick house TomSmith was talking about last night.
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2009, 02:49:25 PM »

VEry well said Jane.. Exactly what I was trying to say in first post..just couldnt get it into words!
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Northern Rose
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« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2009, 03:08:12 PM »

THE MOST - October 30, 2009

Thanks for visiting The Most on KOMU.com.  Here, we take a look at The Most viewed, Tweeted and Facebooked stories on KOMU.com.

The Most viewed stories on KOMU.com last week are about 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.  Together, the reports collected nearly 30,000 page views.  Authorities began searching for Elizabeth last Thursday, after she didn't return home from a friend's house.  On Friday, a Highway Patrol helicopter and a team of over 130 volunteers and investigators searched for Elizabeth.  Cole County Investigators discovered her body on Saturday.

"We came into possession of some written documents, the results of those documents gave us a person of interest.  After questioning that individual, we were taken to the sight where the body was found." Cole County Sheriff Greg White said.

Cole County charged the 15-year-old individual with first degree murder.  The juvenile will attend a hearing in November to determine whether they will be tried as an adult.

MORE....

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/a6a6f048-80ce-0971-01d4-c754d5f652e3
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2009, 03:30:28 PM »

THE MOST - October 30, 2009

Thanks for visiting The Most on KOMU.com.  Here, we take a look at The Most viewed, Tweeted and Facebooked stories on KOMU.com.

The Most viewed stories on KOMU.com last week are about 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.  Together, the reports collected nearly 30,000 page views.  Authorities began searching for Elizabeth last Thursday, after she didn't return home from a friend's house.  On Friday, a Highway Patrol helicopter and a team of over 130 volunteers and investigators searched for Elizabeth.  Cole County Investigators discovered her body on Saturday.

"We came into possession of some written documents, the results of those documents gave us a person of interest.  After questioning that individual, we were taken to the sight where the body was found." Cole County Sheriff Greg White said.

Cole County charged the 15-year-old individual with first degree murder.  The juvenile will attend a hearing in November to determine whether they will be tried as an adult.

MORE....

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/a6a6f048-80ce-0971-01d4-c754d5f652e3

I am thinking more and more that AB wrote some papers at school, and that is where the LE was tipped off by Sheriff White's good friend. She wrote her feelings down, and how she felt, and maybe what she thought about doing. G'parents were not co-operative and would not have allowed any of the sibling give them any information as far as diaries or journals. JMO
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2009, 03:51:03 PM »

Been reading more and asking myself more questions..thought I would see what you alls opinions are on some of my questions.

  Several tiems now I have read that Elizabeth was "found several hundred yards behind ELIZABETHS house in woods".. Do you think Elizabeth was a picked and chosen target?.. Or anyone would have done? Meaning from the info you have gathered (since it seems AB had this planned) Did she know it was Elizabeth she was after??

 Most agree there were many things left ot be desired in the inital investigation/search. Some have mentioned the possibility of if it being due to Olten fathers criminal background. BUT what if it was becasue they already suspected AB?

 Who called Elizabeths mom at 6:15 was it Elizabeth or was it AB's grandpa? Did anyone really call? Do we even know for sure? I have read that Elizabeth told her mom something was not right and her mom told her to "come home" and I have read that the grandpa sent her home and called Elizabeths mom??  If either of this scenerios are fact, maybe AB had already "done something" that scared, worried, or hurt Elizabeth?? Or maybe someone in the house had..

 So many questions so few answers.


 Also I wish we DID know the true facts from the death cert. I dont want to know for the grizzley nastiness of it all, but those that have good "detective" skills can usually tell more of the motive for the killing by the facts of the death. Ie crime of passion vs crime of (wrong place wrong time) srry couldnt think of correct term.

 I know any answers to these question will only be speculation, just seeing if others are specualting on the same wave as me!?
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jill
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« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2009, 03:52:34 PM »

THE MOST - October 30, 2009

Thanks for visiting The Most on KOMU.com.  Here, we take a look at The Most viewed, Tweeted and Facebooked stories on KOMU.com.

The Most viewed stories on KOMU.com last week are about 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.  Together, the reports collected nearly 30,000 page views.  Authorities began searching for Elizabeth last Thursday, after she didn't return home from a friend's house.  On Friday, a Highway Patrol helicopter and a team of over 130 volunteers and investigators searched for Elizabeth.  Cole County Investigators discovered her body on Saturday.

"We came into possession of some written documents, the results of those documents gave us a person of interest.  After questioning that individual, we were taken to the sight where the body was found." Cole County Sheriff Greg White said.

Cole County charged the 15-year-old individual with first degree murder.  The juvenile will attend a hearing in November to determine whether they will be tried as an adult.

MORE....

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/a6a6f048-80ce-0971-01d4-c754d5f652e3

written documents ~or~ handwritten notes????   frustrating!  a written doc could be a text, could be something from the computer...a handwritten note would be exactly that.  "Came into possesion"....were they given to them by the person who wrote them?  were they passed along the tip line?  did investigators find them online?  Were they found when they served the search warrant?  Did the phone company turn over texts???

I guess it doesn't matter...
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jill
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« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2009, 04:05:13 PM »

in this video, White states that the body was found significantly close to the house where they started the investigation.

what does that mean?  AB's house?

http://www.kctv5.com/video/21408339/index.html
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« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2009, 04:11:49 PM »

October 30th, 2009 12:47 am ET

Supposivly The 15 yr old said she did it because she wanted to know what it was like to kill someone with her own hands. I also heard she killed animals as a kid and buried them. So the night Elizabeth went missing the 15 yr old came in with a butcher knife and the parents thought nothing of it. And they just cleaned it off. I heard they might get the parents involved for not saying anything.


October 29th, 2009 9:56 pm ET

The 15 year old lived with her grandparents. From what I understand, the little sister and Elizabeth was outside playing and the teen told her sister to go inside, the teen then told elizabeth to follow her, as they were playing a game. she got her into the woods, where the grave was already dug, she stabbed her, cut her throat and strangled her. the grandparents have cooperated in the investigation, and are currently in a safe haven. from what i understand, the teen had a friend help. she never headed home, she was already dead by 7 o'clock.

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/28/neighbors-say-elizabeth%e2%80%99s-friends%e2%80%99-home-was-searched-is-there-a-connection-to-the-killer-2/
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« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2009, 04:26:10 PM »

October 30th, 2009 12:47 am ET

Supposivly The 15 yr old said she did it because she wanted to know what it was like to kill someone with her own hands. I also heard she killed animals as a kid and buried them. So the night Elizabeth went missing the 15 yr old came in with a butcher knife and the parents thought nothing of it. And they just cleaned it off. I heard they might get the parents involved for not saying anything.


October 29th, 2009 9:56 pm ET

The 15 year old lived with her grandparents. From what I understand, the little sister and Elizabeth was outside playing and the teen told her sister to go inside, the teen then told elizabeth to follow her, as they were playing a game. she got her into the woods, where the grave was already dug, she stabbed her, cut her throat and strangled her. the grandparents have cooperated in the investigation, and are currently in a safe haven. from what i understand, the teen had a friend help. she never headed home, she was already dead by 7 o'clock.

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/28/neighbors-say-elizabeth%e2%80%99s-friends%e2%80%99-home-was-searched-is-there-a-connection-to-the-killer-2/
Well I don't know but if my kid, grandchild whatever came into my house with a butcher knife I don't think that I would just take it and wipe it off, like it was just another day    Now the teen telling Elizabeth to follow her into the woods, playing some type of game, that I can totally see happening.
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« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2009, 04:34:23 PM »

October 30th, 2009 12:47 am ET

Supposivly The 15 yr old said she did it because she wanted to know what it was like to kill someone with her own hands. I also heard she killed animals as a kid and buried them. So the night Elizabeth went missing the 15 yr old came in with a butcher knife and the parents thought nothing of it. And they just cleaned it off. I heard they might get the parents involved for not saying anything.


October 29th, 2009 9:56 pm ET

The 15 year old lived with her grandparents. From what I understand, the little sister and Elizabeth was outside playing and the teen told her sister to go inside, the teen then told elizabeth to follow her, as they were playing a game. she got her into the woods, where the grave was already dug, she stabbed her, cut her throat and strangled her. the grandparents have cooperated in the investigation, and are currently in a safe haven. from what i understand, the teen had a friend help. she never headed home, she was already dead by 7 o'clock.

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/28/neighbors-say-elizabeth%e2%80%99s-friends%e2%80%99-home-was-searched-is-there-a-connection-to-the-killer-2/
Well I don't know but if my kid, grandchild whatever came into my house with a butcher knife I don't think that I would just take it and wipe it off, like it was just another day    Now the teen telling Elizabeth to follow her into the woods, playing some type of game, that I can totally see happening.

IA
I am not sure I buy the part with them just wiping a knife off, the part about following her into the woods I can totally see.
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