Elizabeth Olten #2 10/29/09 - 11/18/09

[Kenda]

October 30th, 2009 12:47 am ET

Supposivly The 15 yr old said she did it because she wanted to know what it was like to kill someone with her own hands. I also heard she killed animals as a kid and buried them. So the night Elizabeth went missing the 15 yr old came in with a butcher knife and the parents thought nothing of it. And they just cleaned it off. I heard they might get the parents involved for not saying anything.


October 29th, 2009 9:56 pm ET

The 15 year old lived with her grandparents. From what I understand, the little sister and Elizabeth was outside playing and the teen told her sister to go inside, the teen then told elizabeth to follow her, as they were playing a game. she got her into the woods, where the grave was already dug, she stabbed her, cut her throat and strangled her. the grandparents have cooperated in the investigation, and are currently in a safe haven. from what i understand, the teen had a friend help. she never headed home, she was already dead by 7 o'clock.

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/28/neighbors-say-elizabeth%e2%80%99s-friends%e2%80%99-home-was-searched-is-there-a-connection-to-the-killer-2/

[no rose colored glasses]

I've read that, but who are the people reporting that? Could be true, could be rumor. I find it very hard to believe that the grandparents would see her come in with a butcher knife and do nothing. But, not knowing the grandparents and what they have all put up with this girl, I guess I will wait to see if we ever get the real facts in this case. I doubt it, but who knows?

[Kenda]

Alyssa how could you look into the eyes of Elizabeth after you decided to murder her. This is the girl who came to your house on many occasions, she probably had sleepovers with your sister. Did you babysit her? It's horrorable to kill a stranger, but you knew her, you played with her. How could you take her up the hill into the woods, knowing she was afraid of the woods, and not knowing she should have been afraid of you. You already had a grave dug. She was your neighbor, your sisters friend and an innocent child. Could you not see the evil inside you. Why didn't you seek help? No one would have thought bad of you to get treatment to arrest your desire to hurt someone but wise enough not to. But you let the monster loose.

[no rose colored glasses]

Alyssa how could you look into the eyes of Elizabeth after you decided to murder her. This is the girl who came to your house on many occasions, she probably had sleepovers with your sister. Did you babysit her? It's horrorable to kill a stranger, but you knew her, you played with her. How could you take her up the hill into the woods, knowing she was afraid of the woods, and not knowing she should have been afraid of you. You already had a grave dug. She was your neighbor, your sisters friend and an innocent child. Could you not see the evil inside you. Why didn't you seek help? No one would have thought bad of you to get treatment to arrest your desire to hurt someone but wise enough not to. But you let the monster loose.

Supposedly she was getting help and Prozac was the medication she was on. Again don't know if true or rumor. But the thought of a doctor giving a teen Prozac does not sit well with me. I guess this is something else we may hear more about.

[three left feet]

Goodmorning monkeys-another strange case-do i have this right--its cold and raining-children are playing outside-EO mom calls and tells her to come home does not  pick her up -lets  her walk home in the cold and rain.  the grand parent grandson are at EO house they dont offer to pick them up-either one of them could have taken the child that was at their house home and brought their child back.  I think most of us would have doen that-it only a short ride-AB did it not defending her-but it seems to me this children were left to-fend forthemselves---as so many children are left today

It had been raining for several days, sometimes quite heavy, but it was not raining that day late afternoon into early evening.  My recollection is that it started again just after 8:00 p.m.  It was also not particularly cold as I was outside without a jacket.  I'm sure all the rain made the woods and terrain difficult to walk, for LE, but also for AB and Elizabeth.  Maybe the rain helped conceal the crime in that the leaves would all be wet and flat.

Also, I read somewhere here or WS that the kids were outside playing in the driveway.  I also read that the driveway (and I think yard in general) was dirt and gravel.  Given all the rain we'd had, they would have had to be playing in mud.  I can't imagine GP letting kids out to play knowing that. 

I think many kids walk 1000 feet on their own.  The school buses won't pick up kids that live within a mile of school so we have many walkers there also, and that's over 5000 feet.  They say Elizabeth walked through her neighbor's yards, 30-40 feet from the road, and I think that was a good safety step given the proximity to Hwy 50.  I might go out and watch my child/child's friend walk the distance, but I don't know that I would drive it either.

[Northern Rose]

TRAGIC UPDATE:

As if this thing could not get any worse. I had heard that a writing teacher at the high school committed suicide after the murder. What is now being confirmed is that the perpetrator turned in a paper that in some way detailed the intent of her crime. This teacher by all accounts was a wonderful, ethical teacher. My mom was telling me he marched with MLK and even went to jail for protesting during the Civil Rights era. Apparently, he blamed himself for not recognizing the paper for what it was.

More details have come out about the details of the killing and the gravesite, but I don't want to say too much until police release those details. These are all through the grapevine at this point. But if they are true, the level of planning on behalf of the perpetrator is absolutely unbelievable.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=34186434&postcount=33

[Txsflame]

G'Morning Monkeys,

Just got caught up on all the reading.  I too just checked AB's myspace page, and they were online, still private setting, and mood says "your the monster".

Also, when Elizabeth first came up missing the news reports did say, the grandfather sent her home. I remember that distinctly, because I kept wondering how could someone disappear that quick....that's when we are started getting all the maps up about the area.

 The MS that says "your the monster" isnt ABs, it is a girl claiming to be ABs best friend..just to clarify. AB's IS private but her status is "chill"

[Northern Rose]

AB's Youtube channel is now gone.

[three left feet]

It sounds like maybe the aunt should/could have had more insight into AB's deranged writings than the GP given that she was a "friend" on the internet sites.  You'd think as much as she was ticked because she thought AB ruled the roost that she'd have told her parents what she saw, but then again I didn't see a date on that post and maybe it was very old.  Maybe it was the aunt who turned in the writings to LE?

[Txsflame]

Where were Alyssa’s friends when she was planning the murder? You knew she killed animals for fun and you knew she was planning something terrible, but you did nothing, you knew she had a dark heart, she told you things that you knew was going to get someone hurt but you did nothing. Now you make excuses for what she did and stand by her as a friend- where were you when you could have prevented this murder. Elizabeth deserved to go trick or treating, playing with dolls and with friend, now she’s with the angels. Alyssa deserved friends that would see the warning signs and got her help- you did nothing, now she will spend the rest of her life in prison- she killed a little girl, she can't take it back. What do you see when you look in a mirror, a friend of Alyssa or someone who claimed to be her friend and did nothing.

WELCOME  Do you know that she told her friends these things, and that she killed animals for fun? Just wondering because I have not seen this anywhere, are you a local? Rumor about killing animals, but at this point we don't know. Wouldn't surprise me though.

Hiya Ms Rose,
I sometimes think that friends "talk" and alot of times they talk out of their behinds and dont really believe that someone would actually do it.  I bet half of her friends right now are saying "I know what she said, but I actually didnt think". The really close ones are saying I knew she was messed up. Alot of times these kids "go with the flow" because they feel like they belong.  I would say she had only one of these friends that really believed and wouldnt betray her, how terrible that sounds.

Yes, we had a case here 2 yrs ago. I cnause names becasue they have ALL been proved guilty in ocurt and the son was tried as an adult. We have a family named Grant..Mike Grant was married to Megan, they had a son Jamie... Mike and Megan went thru a nasty nasty divorce.. Mike got custody of the kids(knowing bith people for most of my life niether should have got custody) Well the fighting went on for years. When the judge declared Michael custody, Jamie(then 12) said in court.. "if u make me live with that man, I will eventually kill him" . Go forward three years.. I am working w/ Megan in the prison she is a LVN, when we take break she is always telling how abusive mike was/is.. she also tells me over and oner something is going to happen to him one day, She tells me if something happens to Mike "you can bet my mom did it" she tells others Jamie is going to do it..we all think she is after attention..UNTIL Sept of 2007, Mike is found dead. Jamie(now 15) and Megans boyfriend killed him. Jamie was at home (with hsi dad and 8 yr old sister) called the moms bf when dad goes to sleep(we all suspect Megan gave Jamie something to knock both sis and dad out) Megans BF comes in and stabs him, while Jmaie waits in the hall.. BF tells Jamie it is done, and Jamie (15 yrs old) goes in and jumps up and down on dead dads body. Megan told me over and over, things like "he needs to die" or "i could jsut kill him" or my mom is going to kill him" (her poor mom was old and feeble and did have to go thru being grilled by texas rangers due to megan running her mouth) Long story short I knew what she said wasnt the right thins to say, but I THOUGHT she was blowing of steam..It took them about 6 weeks to arrest them all.. I still worked with ehr daily in those 6 weeks. I did really beleive Jamie ahd done it(and told her so) but I didnt think she actully had anything to do with it..(yes I was niave and she was my freind) I was on the phone with her(daughter was very very sick and I needed her to wexplain to me what the doctors were saying) She told me that we would look it up at work the next day.. I hung up with her, andhad anothe question, called abck w/i five minutes the cops had showed up in that time and was arresting them as I called.. But thepoint being sometiems we dont beleive what our ears hear, or our eyes see.. I know know megan is a sociapath.. I knew what she said, but the "sweet" lady I worked with I would have never thought she could do it!! SHe didnt do the murder, she only masterminded the whole thing and used her own son,(btw she was like 45 ish and her bf was 24ish)

[Northern Rose]

It sounds like maybe the aunt should/could have had more insight into AB's deranged writings than the GP given that she was a "friend" on the internet sites.  You'd think as much as she was ticked because she thought AB ruled the roost that she'd have told her parents what she saw, but then again I didn't see a date on that post and maybe it was very old.  Maybe it was the aunt who turned in the writings to LE?

The post is dated Wednesday February 25, 2009

Sherriff White stated in his pressers that a written note was given to LE by a juvenile which then lead them to the suspect.

The Aunt is 21

[Northern Rose]

aelliott 

Point of clarification on the boyfriend: according to his relatives (and this comes directly from them) he's not going to school at the moment because he was accused of being involved and threatened with violence. His parents have removed him for his protection.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=359777&page=14

[Lenie]

If you remember from the youtube video that AB did with the brothers in the basement, it showed stairs going upstairs and a door. Many of these types of houses have an outside door from the basement also. AB could have very well have left and entered through that door and the GP's may never have known she was out of the house. If she was as much of a problem child as has been reported they may have just thought she was in the basement doing her own thing for an hour, or her room. I can't imagine that but we don't know what these GP's had to go through with her. If she did have RAD as some are speculating then I know for a fact that one of the symptoms is that when something does not go the way the person thinks it should there is a horrible huge scene. RAD is a me me me disorder. If this person had this all planned out and was just waiting for the opportunity I am sure that she would not have carried the knife back into the house in front of her grandparents.

One thing that really bothers me is the fact that her siblings now have to live with this. They will never again be Bob or Joe they will be "oh you are the brother/sister of the killer."
JMO

[SloSthrnStyle]

G'Morning Monkeys,

Just got caught up on all the reading.  I too just checked AB's myspace page, and they were online, still private setting, and mood says "your the monster".

Also, when Elizabeth first came up missing the news reports did say, the grandfather sent her home. I remember that distinctly, because I kept wondering how could someone disappear that quick....that's when we are started getting all the maps up about the area.

 The MS that says "your the monster" isnt ABs, it is a girl claiming to be ABs best friend..just to clarify. AB's IS private but her status is "chill"

ooops you are right, I didnt even noticed I made the mistake...that is Smooth's page.

[Fanny Mae]

O/T NORTHERN ROSE nanners.

[no rose colored glasses]

Txsflame what a terrible story, and you said it very well, sometimes we dont believe what our ears hear, or our eyes see..  So true

[no rose colored glasses]

aelliott 

Point of clarification on the boyfriend: according to his relatives (and this comes directly from them) he's not going to school at the moment because he was accused of being involved and threatened with violence. His parents have removed him for his protection.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=359777&page=14

I wonder if he knew anything? And if he didn't, that kid's life is destroyed as well   

[Txsflame]

On the issue of the teacher that died (last Monday was it) IMO the jury is still out. I have read in several places that "AB handed in a paper with her plans or ideas"..and he felt so guilty....

BUT I have also read from locals(I think on our post) that he was very ill, and had missed days of teaching and had recentlly taken a turn for the worse. I also read he only taught 11 and 12 grade, so AB would not have been in his classes.

 I think the rumors about the poor teacher come from Sheriff White being at his funeral and saying he was the last to talk to him..... but to that many of the locals I have read say they had been friends for a long time.

 I really do not think we will every know the "truth"..because I do not believe LE will verify (it it is true) the suicide out of guilt angle.. mainly because they wont admit it was a suicide. I do not think his family will ever proclaim that either.


But honestly I think many locals are trying to find an adult to "blame".. teacher knew ..gp know.. I am not sure why but the fact he taught the older kids rings more true to me..menaing AB would not have turned any paper into him.

[no rose colored glasses]

On the issue of the teacher that died (last Monday was it) IMO the jury is still out. I have read in several places that "AB handed in a paper with her plans or ideas"..and he felt so guilty....

BUT I have also read from locals(I think on our post) that he was very ill, and had missed days of teaching and had recentlly taken a turn for the worse. I also read he only taught 11 and 12 grade, so AB would not have been in his classes.

 I think the rumors about the poor teacher come from Sheriff White being at his funeral and saying he was the last to talk to him..... but to that many of the locals I have read say they had been friends for a long time.

 I really do not think we will every know the "truth"..because I do not believe LE will verify (it it is true) the suicide out of guilt angle.. mainly because they wont admit it was a suicide. I do not think his family will ever proclaim that either.


But honestly I think many locals are trying to find an adult to "blame".. teacher knew ..gp know.. I am not sure why but the fact he taught the older kids rings more true to me..menaing AB would not have turned any paper into him.

I had read that the teacher had terminal cancer, and I doubt we will ever really know the reason behind his suicide.

[higherhopes]

http://marinadedave.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/elizabeth-oltens-killer-identified/

dont know if this has already been posted...