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Author Topic: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -  (Read 574152 times)
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Txsflame
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« Reply #1020 on: November 24, 2009, 02:05:31 PM »

TxsFlame I am sorry if I came across that I meant that the kids resent it. I just meant that I know that their are questions as to why in a lot of cases. I hope and pray every day that I can be the kind of Mom that your Mema was to you. Sammi calls us Mom and Dad and seems to have no regrets about being here. She says that God knew that Phil and I could not have anymore kids so He let her bio mom carry her until she was ready and then He sent her to us. Smile
One day Sammi was having a very bad day and she started to cry for what seemed to me no particular reason. When I finally got her to talk about it she said she could not understand what she had done to make her birth parents not want her. They have no and I mean absolutely no excuse not to be raising their children. No mental disorders, no drug or alcohol problems, just plain out and out selfishness.

 I am terribly sorry if I came across that way I did not mean to.

 No you didnt come across like that at all. I just wanted to point out sometimes the grandparents are the best choice to raise the grandkids... It shouldnt be that way , but sadly soemtimes is. It is up to the kid (as they get older) to realize those that care did the best they could for them (us).

Basically I just get defensive about grandparents raising the grandkids.. I wouldnt have traded my life with my mema for anything in the world at times I even DID have the choice, and I ran back to mema as fast as I could.. she was the best.. It makes me angry when kids/people use "grandma raised me excuse(and yes i realize there are bad gparents just like bad parents) I am talking in general terms..the grandparents raising kids isnt a bad thing(only sometimes sad..in my case NO..lol my mema may would have disagreed..j/k)


 I have SOOO much respect for grandparents that take on the task.... they are extra special parents...


Oops srry rambling again... What I was saying is I DOOO see your point, but it isnt always like that..  and I tend to jump to grandparents defense, because I do not want them to all kids will resent them.. Ok.. I thought ur post was very nice, and thank you for taking care of another parentless child..((hugs)))  Some of us do grow to appreciate it!!!
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« Reply #1021 on: November 24, 2009, 02:17:50 PM »

KARENK  Please help a girl out, I cant find the clue...
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« Reply #1022 on: November 24, 2009, 02:26:01 PM »

KARENK  Please help a girl out, I cant find the clue...

OK I found it... I have seen that name other places..but NOW can not remember where.. goona check casenet..I SWEAR I saw it there..?? DD needs puter will get back asap!!
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« Reply #1023 on: November 24, 2009, 02:38:31 PM »

This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better


You feel better now?? Don't you ever blast me again for 'judging and being ignorant of the situation, I am not. You do not know me nor do you know what I have been through and none of you ever will. AB is NOT IMO a sociopath, she's a cold blooded psychopath...and if she does NOT go to prison w/o the possibility of parole OR given the death penalty and is sentenced to the Psych Ward it certainly would NOT be for life. She is not insane. I have no empathy for ANYONE who murders a child. If she ever goes free, she will kill again.

I can see I am done in here or my Scared Monkeys days will be over. One strike you are OUT! She will kill again.

I have to agree with Nut here.  I think that Alyssa is way past being nurtured back to normal.

I do feel that some killers have something missing within them, and imo Alyssa is this type of killer.

Tisk, I do respect your thoughts and feel empathy for what you yourself have had to live through during your life.

But as far as I'm concerend, Alyssa is a stone-cold killer and absolutely, definitely, without a shadow of a doubt NEEDS to be locked up for the rest of her life.

Sad, but imo, true.

Re: the heatedness of this issue, I have to say that I hope people on both sides remember that as this is a child-killer, emotions have and will continue to run high as this case progresses.

That said, again imo our moderators deserve the utmost respect as they give their time voluntarily - to help run a very progressive forum that allows free thought.

The media has made this more about Alyssa than about Elizabeth.
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TiskTisk
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« Reply #1024 on: November 24, 2009, 03:07:08 PM »

This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better


You feel better now?? Don't you ever blast me again for 'judging and being ignorant of the situation, I am not. You do not know me nor do you know what I have been through and none of you ever will. AB is NOT IMO a sociopath, she's a cold blooded psychopath...and if she does NOT go to prison w/o the possibility of parole OR given the death penalty and is sentenced to the Psych Ward it certainly would NOT be for life. She is not insane. I have no empathy for ANYONE who murders a child. If she ever goes free, she will kill again.

I can see I am done in here or my Scared Monkeys days will be over. One strike you are OUT! She will kill again.
I didn't say what I said to make myself fell better at all actually. I was just shocked at how easy it is for people to make comments that a person should fry tomorrow.And stating my opinion that I don't believe people who have emotional issues and cut are "disturbed".I never once mentioned that I thought she should ever be released either.I also believe she should never be allowed to walk among people and be free.Which is why I made the comment once you cross that bridge (of becoming a murderer)That you can never go back. I honestly didn't realize you would think a person giving there opinion would be putting you on "blast"either.I am not a aggressive person especially on the net I believe that is just silly.I honestly believe that the point of this forum was to share your opinion.I stand corrected.Don't worry Nut no need to get all angry and threaten a strike because you feel "Blasted" psh Peace Out Monkeys !!!!It was fun for a minute a lot of you were very sweet it was nice to know you.

I've made it easier for you not to return.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 03:22:44 PM by klaasend » Logged
YourMom
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« Reply #1025 on: November 24, 2009, 03:11:25 PM »

KARENK  Please help a girl out, I cant find the clue...

His name is ((edit - since this boy is a minor and as far as we know not involved in the murder, I'd rather not post his name.  If it turns out that he helped Alyssa in any way then we can go ahead and post it))
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 03:41:48 PM by klaasend » Logged
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« Reply #1026 on: November 24, 2009, 03:16:43 PM »

This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better




TiskTisk - I honestly believe you are in the minority here.  Most have no compassion for anyone who would kill a 9yr old in cold blood. 

So if NUT is no better then "them" then I am no better as well. 

In the future don't attack others because of your own views.  TIA
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YourMom
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« Reply #1027 on: November 24, 2009, 03:33:23 PM »

This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.Would you say that people who cut ARE in fact insane?  That you, yourself, are insane?I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not.Have you, in fact, murdered and therefore know what a murderer is thinking? I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems! um, happens to kids everyday, yet they don't murderSo you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic you either are, or you aren't, there is nothing partial about being a sociopathand I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. Again, have you murdered?  You would have to have murdered to understand BOTH sides...There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. This shouldn't have happened whether the kid had parents or notTHIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.I disagree.  Murdering is a decision, must like other things people claim to have been "born" with...
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better




All the stuff that is bold, underlined, and italicized is my questions and comments
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« Reply #1028 on: November 24, 2009, 03:37:37 PM »

YourMom - you won't be getting an answer or reaction from TiskTisk, I've banned her.  We/I don't need people stirring up trouble after only being a member for a couple weeks.  Much easier for me to remove the problem than to deal with the complaints.
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« Reply #1029 on: November 24, 2009, 03:42:33 PM »


Someone may of asked these before…but I am such a hit or miss on this site…I am going to ask it any way…
Questions…… 1) If she had dug two graves, did she fill the extra on in too?
                             If it was not filled in
                        2) Why did the searches not find it?
                                   Supposedly they searched that area.
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« Reply #1030 on: November 24, 2009, 03:47:09 PM »

Lenie,
I would like to say how truly sorry what happended to your friend.  I agree with what you are saying; people will only show what they want us to see. 

However in this case Alyssa did not hide what a monster she was.  She posted it all on the internet for everyone, mainly her friends, to see.  So when her friends are going to the media (wither it is an interview or posting a comment for the world to see) about them being shocked, and that Alyssa was a normal teenager who liked to laugh, I feel they are being stupid.   I do feel every comment about Alyssa being a normal teenager with normal problems is an insult to Elizabeth! To both her short life and her horrific death.

As far as her friends being confused, because they feel they have been tricked by Alyssa, there are more appropriate outlets for them to discuss their confusion.  They have parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, school councilors, other friends, their parents, trust teacher, school councilor, priest, pastor....This is more appropriate and defiantly more respectful to Elizabeth and her family.



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« Reply #1031 on: November 24, 2009, 03:47:45 PM »

KARENK  Please help a girl out, I cant find the clue...

OK I found it... I have seen that name other places..but NOW can not remember where.. goona check casenet..I SWEAR I saw it there..?? DD needs puter will get back asap!!
I don't know why I missed it before. Had the name but put an older boy's data with it the longer version of __sty.  I found in searching and the mother's data came up with children listed.
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« Reply #1032 on: November 24, 2009, 03:49:08 PM »

AND, I reiterate. We don't know that he knew anything at all about this and especially since as hinted by others they had only been together a few weeks so leads me to think he knew nothing!!!  And after that small amount of time I can't believe would get involved with a murder.
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« Reply #1033 on: November 24, 2009, 03:53:35 PM »

  And in my mind it is put to rest.  Since BF probably isn't involved I can now stop obsessing about who he is. I don't think he will be implicated in any way. It is also curious that he doesn't have the usual social networking foot print on the net and is not even discussed in others MS or FB sites that I can find.
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« Reply #1034 on: November 24, 2009, 03:58:07 PM »

Nut,
I am sorry you were attacked.  You are a strong advocate for children, elderly and the disabled. You deserve a big "THANK YOU" for everything you do.  an angelic monkey
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« Reply #1035 on: November 24, 2009, 04:06:15 PM »

Nut, I hope you continue to discuss - your views are very much valued.
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« Reply #1036 on: November 24, 2009, 04:27:14 PM »


Someone may of asked these before…but I am such a hit or miss on this site…I am going to ask it any way…
Questions…… 1) If she had dug two graves, did she fill the extra on in too?
                             If it was not filled in
                        2) Why did the searches not find it?
                                   Supposedly they searched that area.


1.  They haven't released that information and they have said if Elizabeth was in only one of the graves.
2.  It was a very marshy area and a fairly large search area. 
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« Reply #1037 on: November 24, 2009, 04:30:01 PM »


Someone may of asked these before…but I am such a hit or miss on this site…I am going to ask it any way…
Questions…… 1) If she had dug two graves, did she fill the extra on in too?
                             If it was not filled in
                        2) Why did the searches not find it?
                                   Supposedly they searched that area.


1.  They haven't released that information and they have said if Elizabeth was in only one of the graves.
2.  It was a very marshy area and a fairly large search area. 

marshy?????.....I did not know of any marshy in the Jeff City area
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« Reply #1038 on: November 24, 2009, 04:32:53 PM »

YourMom - you won't be getting an answer or reaction from TiskTisk, I've banned her.  We/I don't need people stirring up trouble after only being a member for a couple weeks.  Much easier for me to remove the problem than to deal with the complaints.

I apologize to all monkeys and especially Nut if my response above read as sympathetic to Tisk.

I only read halfway through that post and missed the absolutely off the wall, over the top, extremely rude last comments.

Not nice!

 
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« Reply #1039 on: November 24, 2009, 04:34:51 PM »


Someone may of asked these before…but I am such a hit or miss on this site…I am going to ask it any way…
Questions…… 1) If she had dug two graves, did she fill the extra on in too?
                             If it was not filled in
                        2) Why did the searches not find it?
                                   Supposedly they searched that area.


1.  They haven't released that information and they have said if Elizabeth was in only one of the graves.
2.  It was a very marshy area and a fairly large search area. 

marshy?????.....I did not know of any marshy in the Jeff City area

the area was flooded and marshy from the rainfall over the preceding days.
Logged

ALWAYS protectkidz. 
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